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[ArkkAngel007]

Since people finally completed the game, how do you look back on my conclusion?



Sorry for linking this again. It's just happens that the OP actually included my conclusion about the graphics, not the game Anyway, while I still agree with many of its flaws, I still stand behind my final conclusion and score. I think the Forbes article explained it really well. Two years ago, this would have been a 80+ game. That doesn't mean I don't agree with the lower scores. On the contrary. I think you could read my review as a 6.5 - 7.5 score, but I ended up going for 7.5 because I really liked the experience. Personal and all.

Thing is, when you see reviews give this game a 2,5/10 or a 4/10, I think that's just too harsh. Opinions and all, but even with its flaws, I cannot see how you would rate this game under 50%. If you compare it with other games in that range, you'll find out said games are a lot more shitty, I think. Hell, I've played games much worse than The Order 1886 which aren't even close to a 4/10.

I do think it's important Ready At Dawn knows where they've made mistakes. I actually do want a sequel. I think it's an interesting universe and I love the art and presentation. If they learn from their mistakes, the sequel could be great. However, I feel like they should have gotten an average of around 70, maybe 75. Again, that's just personal. The way things are now, if you'd read the internet, you'd almost believe this game is utter shit and borderline scammy.

Just finished the game a few hours ago and just wrapped up the Platinum after jumping through a few chapter before turning to a guide to figure out exactly which ones I missed.

Not to say too much since I'll be doing my own write-up in the OT (and post here too likely enough), but I'm in agreement on your points and the score range you feel your review could be taken as.

One thing I'll add, given your last point, is that they were obviously working on the assumption that they would be getting a sequel. Wouldn't surprise me if it's in pre-production already.

 

[Anung]

Since people finally completed the game, how do you look back on my conclusion?

Totally agree with all of it. Even the hyperbole 4/10's being stupid/attention grabbing.

I put together a video review myself and I think maybe the negativity actually had the opposite effect where my expectations were lowered so much that I actually enjoyed it more.

I gave the game a 7 as well.

 

[Slixshot]

I feel like 1/10 and 2/10 are practically broken games. This game is functional, looks amazing, plays pretty good, but is short with little replay value. Now people played Gone Home last year (or whatever year it was) for around the same time and it cost $20 at launch. The spectacle of that game is nothing in comparison to this one - rightly so, it's an indie game made by a smaller team. It did have an excellent story which carries its experience, but even then, that's objective. There is also no replay value for the game. With The Order, you got the best visuals ever on a console, a pretty good story (again, objective), and pretty standard 3rd person shooting with some QTE's and a couple interesting mechanics thrown in. So is that $40 difference really what drags reviews down 5-6 points on a 10 point scale?

 

[Crossing Eden]

This is clearly addressed during the game. It is tesla's call when to explain to Greyson and he simply has yet to do that. That is far from a "plot thread" as it is fairly obvious what has happened

Spoiler

Tesla has decided to aid Lakshmi for the same reason he aids the knights to fight the halfbreeds but he knows that there is a double agent within the order so he can't risk revealing his involvment with the rebels or their true cause.

Well

Spoiler

they are both presumably different forms of halfbreeds united against their opposition in order to survive and Lucan is a half breed so as explained in the game he feels a familial obligation to help his lycan brothers and sisters

Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

Spoiler

If you remember she mentioned in the game that she inherited her blackwater flask form an original knight of the round table. Its basically implied (and a bit hinted at by an audio log) that this other mysterious knight is in fact another one of the original members of the order who have broken ties similar to the one who gave the rebel leader her flask.

Uhh it's not a cliffhanger?

Spoiler

He eliminated the double agent in the order and has a clear goal of revenge to seek in the followup.

not sure how that's a cliffhanger. As far as the characters go it's true theg ame does not shove information on the characters backstories down your throat it hints at them via audio logs and documents in the game world. For example

Spoiler

Lafeyette's involvement in french revolutions, Tesla's motivations as an inventor and member of the order/rebels etc etc

I prefer the subtle discovery of these things throughout the playthrough rather than going to talk them in the hub and have them spill their guts about their life story. Furthermore their actions throughout the game and their responses to different situations tell you a lot about their motivations as characters. To me the approach to characterization in this game was well done because it was realistic and not overtly exposition based like so many other games.



Those are meant as immersion pieces things to show the authentic nature of the world you are in. A few of the photos actually do hint at story elements thanks to the people/things featured and the commentary on the back. Other objects are lore based such as

Spoiler

Darwins notes on the discovery of lycan skeletal remains

As I stated in my initital response the tutorial prompt are indeed a flaw and annoying. They break immersion but outside of that are nothing more than a slight nuisance and not a game ruining flaw as some make them out to be. Every game has repeated elements. Unless you are going to sit here and tell me that AC doesnt have copy pasted mechanics and side missions throughout the game. You said gameplay want varied I listed examples of the variety of gameplay showing it was now you say it repeats too much. Ok well that's your opinion which you are entitled to but I never felt put off by their implementation. This is a personal opinion not a factual objective criticism as you made it out to be initially.



The story will be the same. The game will not be exactly the same. SO far I have noticed and discovered story related elements I missed during my intitial playthorgh. Furthermore the gunplay encounters have all played out very differently now that I am more comfortable and familiar with the controls. The restrictive game design decisions vis a vis drawing weapons and what not are indeed flaws with the game. They are amateurish and indicative of RADs inexperience developing full fledged console games But again while these are flaws they did little to diminish my enjoyment of the game as a whole. To say that these ruin the replayability of the game is rediculous. That is your opinion. It is not a fact. If you wish to express that opinion that is fine but state it as an opinion just as I state my dissenting opinion: valid but not absolute.



I specifically cited multiple advanced behaviors the AI exhibited in my playthrough. Your statement would have people beleive the AI is nearly non existent my examples show otherwise. As previously stated its not the most advanced ai by any stretch but it is a very far cry from the incompetence you imply.



I really dont understand why instafail stealth is such a horrible thing. Why is an instant failure state when you screw up in stealth any less valid than an instant failure state when you miss a jump platforming? Or do you think every platforming game needs prince of persia style rewind systems? The stealth sections are short and occur twice over the course of the entire game. If they really bothered you that much then fine. They didnt bother me in the slightest and they were relatively simple. I honestly enjoyed them. Especially the later one. As stated previously the only design decision that felt out of place and completely unnecessary to me was the necessity of killing all the guards to proceed.

The only reason Galahad would have to avoid killing them is at the behest of

Spoiler

Lucan

. earlier in the game Galahad makes a concerted effort not kill enemies for the same reason before he finds out what they are really doing. Once he knows there is no reason to hold back. Hence why

Spoiler

he tells Lucan "just trust me"

in regards to killing the guards. Complaining because they didnt implement non lethal takedowns seems absolutely absurd to me.



I directly addressed this complaint in my previous response. It is an odd design decision but they provide standing cover for the player in these areas to accomidate the absence of the ability to take crouching cover. It's a mild annoyance at most that is addressed by the presence of appropriate cover.

All I'm saying is that I feel many are being incredibly hyperbolic with their criticisms of the game and some, like yourself in the initial post, are claiming their criticism is universal and indisputably true for everyone. They are not. They are opinions and should be expressed as such.

Spoiler

The game does not give the lycans or vampires any kind of explanation, what you're saying is conjecture. It doesn't make sense that Lucan needs the help of vampires since the only vampire we know about is lord hastings, who Galahad decides is not worth going after at the time because we need a sequel villain. The entire ending shot about "This is not the time for heroics" and the "I will call upon him if he survives this ordeal" earlier is a cliffhanger incarnate. Lucan doesn't even elaborate on how he's protecting his kind by working with the order. And the game's way of explaining character backstories via random questions from Lafayette is terrible imo, "Oh, is it really true that he fought against king arthur" "oh, is it true that Igraine and Lucan are adopted." Those aren't questions for the character, they're for the audience, amateurish storytelling a it's finest. Like Igraine's "I swear i'll put a stop to the rebellion" thing being said out loud when no one is around, which is also for the audience, in fact, idk how she plans to put a stop to the rebellion when the main rebel leader and her cohort left the city at the end of the game unless she plans on pursuing the rebels to wherever they go next.

And "immersion pieces." Yes, that flask of alcohol and the random hammer sure immerse me and make me feel like i'm in London, just turning my wrist and examining an object is the ultimate form of atmosphere soaking and totally important to the game where this is the setting.

The Order: 1886 is set in an alternate history London, where an old order of knights keep all of the world safe from half breed monsters, who are a combination of animal and man. In the game's history, around the seventh or eighth centuries a small number of humans took on bestial traits. The majority of humans feared these half-breeds and war broke out. Despite the humans outnumbering the half-breeds, their animal strength gave them the upper hand in centuries of conflict.

Centuries later, humanity finds new hope in King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. King Arthur and his like-minded knights take the fight to the half breeds, but Arthur soon realizes it's a losing battle. Through a mysterious turn of fate, the Knights discover Blackwater, a mystical liquid that significantly extends their lifetimes and gives them remarkable healing abilities. Despite this new advantage, the half-breeds continue to win battle after battle, until the industrial Revolution turns the tide. Engineers are far ahead of their time, inventing technologies such as thermal imaging, Zeppelins, and wireless communications. New weapons belch electricity, ignite clouds of molten metal on top of enemies, and fulfill dual functions as fragmentation grenades and proximity mines.

^ And yet we spend the majority of the combat in the game fighting rebels with copy-pasted lycan encounters. And none of the behaviors you listed are "advanced," they're decent, but certainly not advanced at all. For example, look at destiny's AI. It has a ton of behaviors based on difficulty and player action
http://imgur.com/gallery/xiSFw/new

meanwhile things like this are common place in the order from my experience.

I even have some hilarious gifs recorded of the AI being braindead. It's not smart by any means nor are the AI tactics up to the standard that I would expect from a 2015 game that has a shit on a ps4, a console that has a shit ton more memory than the ps3. Instafail stealth is an archaic gameplay element, there is a very important reason why instafail stealth is being abandoned by tons of games like spinter cell, AC, and other stealth games, because it's simply not fun, no one wants to go back to the start of a level because they made one tiny mistake or in the case of the order, missed a QTE that most definitely doesn't need to be there in the first case because we have tons upon tons of games that do stealth better by making the stealth actual stealth with the game adjusting to whether or not the player gets caught midway, especially considering that both sections in the game end with the characters saying "Welp we caught, time for gun blazin. Man imagine if we had gotten caught earlier, probably would've been killed instantly. It doesn't even make sense for Lucan to say "Well ok Galahad, i'll let you kill all these guards." With an amazing ludonarrative dissonance moment happening later when the guy says "they incapacitated several of my guards!" Yea that crossbow to the face surely didn't kill them. The game is full of stuff like this. Baffling decisions both in the gameplay design and narrative, (literally no reason that the story had to be told in media res, seriously besides the fact that they had to have a "shocking" prologue which in turn is yet another straight faced cliche, which the game has many.) And regarding what you were saying earlier about how the game is being shit on despite being their first console outing, I think this is mainly in part to the hubris of the dev recently, they spouted some terrible PR the past few weeks
-Our game is like $100 steak
-This is a good preview for the future of video games
-Comparing the criticisms to bullying
not to mention all the things they said before release.
and in part to the absolute ridiculous amount of defending from those who were on the hype train. I've never seen a new IP defended as much as i've seen the order, especially in the face of compelling evidence, concerns that we would be fighting the human enemies were met with "No no just wait for the full game they're saving the lycan fights because they're probably the best part." Concerns about the QTEs were met with "No no it's a cinematic game." The dismissal of the short length with video proof with the line "Oh it's a speedrun." Having played it, it's impossible to speedrun the game because the dev multiple times takes away the option to jog, no not sprint, jog. A new IP and console outing or not, it has to hold up to a standard since it's being released in 2015, so no i'm not comparing it to works such as ICO, Journey, etc, i'm comparing it to the best of the industry since it's advertised as triple A with some of the best graphics in the industry. And it seems that that sentiment was shared by many reviewers as well.

 

[QaaQer]

Spoiler

The game does not give the lycans or vampires any kind of explanation, what you're saying is conjecture. It doesn't make sense that Lucan needs the help of vampires since the only vampire we know about is lord hastings, who Galahad decides is not worth going after at the time because we need a sequel villain. The entire ending shot about "This is not the time for heroics" and the "I will call upon him if he survives this ordeal" earlier is a cliffhanger incarnate. And the game's way of explaining character backstories via random questions from Lafayette is terrible imo, "Oh, is it really true that he fought against king arthur" "oh, is it true that Igraine and Lucan are adopted." Those aren't questions for the character, they're for the audience, amateurish storytelling a it's finest. Like Igraine's "I swear i'll put a stop to the rebellion" thing being said out loud when no one is around, which is also for the audience, in fact, idk how she plans to put a stop to the rebellion when the main rebel leader and her cohort left the city at the end of the game unless she plans on pursuing the rebels to wherever they go next.

And "immersion pieces." Yes, that flask of alchohol and the random hammer sure immerse me and make me feel like i'm in London, just turning my risk and examining an object is the ultimate form of atmosphere soaking and totally important to the game where this is the setting.



^ And yet we spend the majority of the combat in the game fighting rebels with copy-pasted lycan encounters. And none of the behaviors you listed are "advanced," they're decent, but certainly not advanced at all. For example, look at destiny's AI. It has a ton of behaviors based on difficulty and player action
http://imgur.com/gallery/xiSFw/new

meanwhile things like this are common place in the order from my experience.

I even have some hilarious gifs recorded of the AI being braindead. It's not smart by any means are up to the standard that I would expect from a 2015 game that has a shit ton more memory than the ps3. Instafail stealth is an archaic gameplay element, there is a very important reason why instafail stealth is being abandonded by tons of games like spinter cell, AC, and other stealth games, because it's simply not fun, no one wants to go back to the start of a level because they made one tiny mistake or in the case of the order, missed a QTE that most definitely doesn't need to be there in the first case because we have tons upon tons of games that do stealth better by making the stealth actual stealth with the game adjusting to whether or not the player gets caught midway, especially considering that both sections in the game end with the characters saying "Welp we caught, time for gun blazin. Man imagine if we had gotten caught earlier, probably would've been killed instantly. It doesn't even make sense for Lucan to say "well ok Galahad, i'll let you kill all these guards." With an amazing ludonarrative dissonance moment happening later when the guy says "they incapacitated several of my guards!" Yea that crossbow to the face surely didn't kill them. The game is full of stuff like this. Baffling decisions both in the gameplay design and narrative, (literally no reason that the story had to be told in media res, seriously besides the fact that they had to have a "shocking" prologue which in turn is yet another straight faced cliche, which the game has many.) And regarding what you were saying earlier about how the game is being shit on despite being their first console outing, I think this is mainly in part to the hubris of the dev recently, they spouted some terrible PR the past few weeks
-Our game is like $100 steak
-This is a good preview for the future of video games
-Comparing the criticisms to bullying
not to mention all the things they said before release.
and in part to the absolute ridiculous amount of defending from those who were on the hype train. I've never seen a new IP defended as much as i've seen the order, especially in the face of compelling evidence, concerns that we would be fighting the human enemies were met with "No no just wait for the full game they're saving the lycan fights because they're probably the best part." Concerns about the QTEs were met with "No no it's a cinematic game." The dismissal of the short length with video proof with the line "Oh it's a speedrun." Having played it, it's impossible to speedrun the game because the dev multiple times takes away the option to jog, no not sprint, jog. A new IP and console outing or not, it has to hold up to a standard since it's being released in 2015, so no i'm not comparing it to works such as ICO, Journey, etc, i'm comparing it to the best of the industry since it's advertised as triple A with some of the best graphics in the industry. And it seems that that sentiment was shared by many reviewers as well.

What are you even arguing?

AAA = dumbass videogame. AC:U, Modoor, Evolve, Dying Light, Destiny, COD,...all dumbass $60 retail videogames that will be forgotten before the generation is over. The Order fits right in.

 

[Crossing Eden]

What are you even arguing?

AAA = dumbass videogame. AC:U, Modoor, Evolve, Dying Light, Destiny, COD,...all dumbass $60 retail videogames that will be forgotten before the generation is over. The Order fits right in.

I very much doubt that Bloodborne, MGSV, Uncharted 4, and many other triple A games this year will be forgotten. You're drastically oversimplifying triple A gaming . No, not all triple A games are "dumber ass videogames."

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Spoiler

The game does not give the lycans or vampires any kind of explanation, what you're saying is conjecture. It doesn't make sense that Lucan needs the help of vampires since the only vampire we know about is lord hastings, who Galahad decides is not worth going after at the time because we need a sequel villain. The entire ending shot about "This is not the time for heroics" and the "I will call upon him if he survives this ordeal" earlier is a cliffhanger incarnate. And the game's way of explaining character backstories via random questions from Lafayette is terrible imo, "Oh, is it really true that he fought against king arthur" "oh, is it true that Igraine and Lucan are adopted." Those aren't questions for the character, they're for the audience, amateurish storytelling a it's finest. Like Igraine's "I swear i'll put a stop to the rebellion" thing being said out loud when no one is around, which is also for the audience, in fact, idk how she plans to put a stop to the rebellion when the main rebel leader and her cohort left the city at the end of the game unless she plans on pursuing the rebels to wherever they go next.

And "immersion pieces." Yes, that flask of alchohol and the random hammer sure immerse me and make me feel like i'm in London, just turning my risk and examining an object is the ultimate form of atmosphere soaking and totally important to the game where this is the setting.



^ And yet we spend the majority of the combat in the game fighting rebels with copy-pasted lycan encounters. And none of the behaviors you listed are "advanced," they're decent, but certainly not advanced at all. For example, look at destiny's AI. It has a ton of behaviors based on difficulty and player action
http://imgur.com/gallery/xiSFw/new

meanwhile things like this are common place in the order from my experience.

I even have some hilarious gifs recorded of the AI being braindead. It's not smart by any means are up to the standard that I would expect from a 2015 game that has a shit ton more memory than the ps3. Instafail stealth is an archaic gameplay element, there is a very important reason why instafail stealth is being abandonded by tons of games like spinter cell, AC, and other stealth games, because it's simply not fun, no one wants to go back to the start of a level because they made one tiny mistake or in the case of the order, missed a QTE that most definitely doesn't need to be there in the first case because we have tons upon tons of games that do stealth better by making the stealth actual stealth with the game adjusting to whether or not the player gets caught midway, especially considering that both sections in the game end with the characters saying "Welp we caught, time for gun blazin. Man imagine if we had gotten caught earlier, probably would've been killed instantly. It doesn't even make sense for Lucan to say "well ok Galahad, i'll let you kill all these guards." With an amazing ludonarrative dissonance moment happening later when the guy says "they incapacitated several of my guards!" Yea that crossbow to the face surely didn't kill them. The game is full of stuff like this. Baffling decisions both in the gameplay design and narrative, (literally no reason that the story had to be told in media res, seriously besides the fact that they had to have a "shocking" prologue which in turn is yet another straight faced cliche, which the game has many.) And regarding what you were saying earlier about how the game is being shit on despite being their first console outing, I think this is mainly in part to the hubris of the dev recently, they spouted some terrible PR the past few weeks
-Our game is like $100 steak
-This is a good preview for the future of video games
-Comparing the criticisms to bullying
not to mention all the things they said before release.
and in part to the absolute ridiculous amount of defending from those who were on the hype train. I've never seen a new IP defended as much as i've seen the order, especially in the face of compelling evidence, concerns that we would be fighting the human enemies were met with "No no just wait for the full game they're saving the lycan fights because they're probably the best part." Concerns about the QTEs were met with "No no it's a cinematic game." The dismissal of the short length with video proof with the line "Oh it's a speedrun." Having played it, it's impossible to speedrun the game because the dev multiple times takes away the option to jog, no not sprint, jog. A new IP and console outing or not, it has to hold up to a standard since it's being released in 2015, so no i'm not comparing it to works such as ICO, Journey, etc, i'm comparing it to the best of the industry since it's advertised as triple A with some of the best graphics in the industry. And it seems that that sentiment was shared by many reviewers as well.

Goddamn, what a beating. I walk away from the game more positive than I am negative, but I can't disagree with any of this.

 

[QaaQer]

I very much doubt that Bloodborne, MGSV, Uncharted 4, and many other triple A games this year will be forgotten. You're drastically oversimplifying triple A gaming . No, not all triple A games are "dumber ass videogames."

They are not out yet, so maybe. Making AAA game usually means haviving the same creative constraints as a Hollywood blockbuster, so anything above dumbass fun would be a near miracle.

 

[Crossing Eden]

They are not out yet, so maybe. Making AAA game usually means haviving the same creative constraints as a Hollywood blockbuster, so anything above dumbass fun would be a near miracle.

What other triple A games this year seem to be doing is taking familiar concepts and expanding on them significantly as a last big hurrah for their series. Dumb fun is something that occurs, but the devs seem to be going all out for their latest entries
-Bloodborne is taking the souls gameplay we know and love and making it much more fast paced, both for the player and for the enemies, which may result in the hardest game yet if the priest boss is any indication.
-MGSV is taking the gameplay established in Ground Zeroes/Peacewalker and dialing it up to 11, adding way more gadgets, base management, character management, while also expanding on MGO.
-Witcher 3 is taking some of the gameplay in Witcher 2 and reworking it into a very dynamic open world setting, including tons of world states, endings, and tons of content
-Uncharted 4 is taking the tried and true uncharted gameplay mechanics and adding new gadgets and most notable:level variety and choice. Instead of the levels being comprised of set piece after set piece we seem to be getting more expanded levels with more options for traversal and stealth or action gameplay.

These are just a few examples. And I doubt that each dev won't deliver based on their track record.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What other triple A games this year seem to be doing is taking familiar concepts and expanding on them significantly as a last big hurrah for their series. Dumb fun is something that occurs, but the devs seem to be going all out for their latest entries
-Bloodborne is taking the souls gameplay we know and love and making it much more fast paced, both for the player and for the enemies, which may result in the hardest game yet if the priest boss is any indication.
-MGSV is taking the gameplay established in Ground Zeroes/Peacewalker and dialing it up to 11, adding way more gadgets, base management, character management, while also expanding on MGO.
-Witcher 3 is taking some of the gameplay in Witcher 2 and reworking it into a very dynamic open world setting, including tons of world states, endings, and tons of content
-Uncharted 4 is taking the tried and true uncharted gameplay mechanics and adding new gadgets and most notable:level variety and choice. Instead of the levels being comprised of set piece after set piece we seem to be getting more expanded levels with more options for traversal and stealth or action gameplay.

These are just a few examples. And I doubt that each dev won't deliver based on their track record.

Yeah, it's disgusting to put a blanket over some games coming out and saying 'they're probably going to be dumbass fun'.

 

[INFINITY TR1GG3R]

Morning all,

Long time reader, first time poster. I've been compelled to jump into the debate from the background after finishing up the order 1886 over the weekend.

How on earth did this get 5's and 6's!!! Unbelievably harsh from all the reviewers dishing out, what could be, studio ending scores which were totally unwarranted.

Can anyone honestly say they walked away from the game feeling like it was broken, boring and a waste of time, something 90% of reviews are suggesting. Anyone? ..No? ...Well for the benefit of those on the fence, let's set the record straight right here, The order 1886 is fantastic!

In my opinion, this is the tightest game of the gen so far, graphics, story, gameplay, all spot on. The only iffy element is length and re-playability. It took me 10-12 hours to complete (just perfect in length imo) but offers little reason to go back and play again. This said the gunplay was so good, i might just do that, even though the game will harbour no new surprises.

All in all, i walked away from the order feeling the most satisfied from a game that I have in years and given how i'm feeling and based on the opinions of others, I feel the scoring of this game is one of the greatest gaming travesty in years.

Ready at dawn don't deserve this.

I just hope that Sony and all the powers that be put greater value in the opinions of gamers rather than the opinions of reviewers when looking at what to do with the order as a franchise and ready at dawn as a studio, after all the guys delivered a really quality end product, not perfect, but i'd love to see how far they can take this.

 

[params7]

Spoiler

Spoiler

There is just no excuse for any developer, not just AAA, in this day and age to have such shitty AI. If you want to make cinematic game (which this one is trying to be), then don't give the players enough freedom to break the set pieces you design.

For example, Spec Ops: The Line.

 

[cool_dude]

Only on Act 6, but so far I've got to say that Ready At Dawn are geniuses for tricking thousands of shooter fans into playing an adventure game.

Seriously, my wife has been watching me play and multiple times she has commented "This is just like a point-and-click adventure game!", a genre she loves, and it made me change a lot of my perspective on some of the questionable game design choices and realize that almost all of them are adventure game tropes.

This is one of the best adventure games I've ever played.

Ha ha ha, illusion of choice in a very linear game, got tricked all right...

 

[ArcLyte]

The way things are now, if you'd read the internet, you'd almost believe this game is utter shit and borderline scammy.

It makes me wonder, would The Order still have garnered such a negative response if it weren't for reviewers essentially informing the entire opinion of gamers who would have otherwise played and enjoyed the game? It almost seems like there's some kind of competition between games reviewers regarding who can score the big, ambitious, new, hyped-to-hell, hotly anticipated exclusive game the lowest, as if to imply that by giving a game a lower score, they're somehow better, more intellectual, more talented as a critic.

My heart goes out to the entire development team at Ready at Dawn, who obviously poured their lives and every bit of insane creative talent into the production of this game, only to see it completely torn apart by critics.

 

[Booshka]

It makes me wonder, would The Order still have garnered such a negative response if it weren't for reviewers essentially informing the entire opinion of gamers who would have otherwise played and enjoyed the game? It almost seems like there's some kind of competition between games reviewers regarding who can score the big, ambitious, new, hyped-to-hell, hotly anticipated exclusive game the lowest, as if to imply that by giving a game a lower score, they're somehow better, more intellectual, more talented as a critic.

My heart goes out to the entire development team at Ready at Dawn, who obviously poured their lives and every bit of insane creative talent into the production of this game, only to see it completely torn apart by critics.

It would have got trashed by word of mouth instead.

 

[tuna_love]

It makes me wonder, would The Order still have garnered such a negative response if it weren't for reviewers essentially informing the entire opinion of gamers who would have otherwise played and enjoyed the game? It almost seems like there's some kind of competition between games reviewers regarding who can score the big, ambitious, new, hyped-to-hell, hotly anticipated exclusive game the lowest, as if to imply that by giving a game a lower score, they're somehow better, more intellectual, more talented as a critic.

My heart goes out to the entire development team at Ready at Dawn, who obviously poured their lives and every bit of insane creative talent into the production of this game, only to see it completely torn apart by critics.

Hey yeah maybe.

 

[NBtoaster]

It makes me wonder, would The Order still have garnered such a negative response if it weren't for reviewers essentially informing the entire opinion of gamers who would have otherwise played and enjoyed the game? It almost seems like there's some kind of competition between games reviewers regarding who can score the big, ambitious, new, hyped-to-hell, hotly anticipated exclusive game the lowest, as if to imply that by giving a game a lower score, they're somehow better, more intellectual, more talented as a critic.

My heart goes out to the entire development team at Ready at Dawn, who obviously poured their lives and every bit of insane creative talent into the production of this game, only to see it completely torn apart by critics.

The flaws of the game were extremely apparent before release, it's not the reviewers suddenly turning public opinion. Most criticisms of the first gameplay leak can be applied to the final game.

 

[Karak]

Yeah I'm not seeing eye to eye with some of these scores. I'm loving this game so far. It's definitely not a 1/10 or 2/10.

I didn't either. I was in info lockdown so I didn't know what anyone else was going to review it as but once I saw their scores versus mine I just couldn't fathom some of them. 1's and 2's...right. Game has its issues but some of this crap has been laughable.

 

[Future]

It makes me wonder, would The Order still have garnered such a negative response if it weren't for reviewers essentially informing the entire opinion of gamers who would have otherwise played and enjoyed the game? It almost seems like there's some kind of competition between games reviewers regarding who can score the big, ambitious, new, hyped-to-hell, hotly anticipated exclusive game the lowest, as if to imply that by giving a game a lower score, they're somehow better, more intellectual, more talented as a critic.

My heart goes out to the entire development team at Ready at Dawn, who obviously poured their lives and every bit of insane creative talent into the production of this game, only to see it completely torn apart by critics.

Well you can ask that question for any reviewed product really. You will never know

One thing that didn't become real apparent until after I finished it was that it truly is a one and done game. The extras section, usually filled in other games with artwork, behind the scenes material, tally of collectibles found, % completion amount, skin selection, etc.... Contains nothing but the credits. I replayed a chapter for a quick sec thinking I might explore, but the Unskippable cut scenes changed my mind and I stopped.

I think that's part of the reason the game got slammed. It's actually rare to find a game that truly ends with nothing else. Even heavy rain had branching paths, multiple endings, etc.

I don't agree with the overly harsh reviews, but I can understand it a bit. Especially if you are trying to compare to other games at the same price point for value. I don't think it was simply a can't wait to shit on this game deal

 

[RexNovis]

And "immersion pieces." Yes, that flask of alcohol and the random hammer sure immerse me and make me feel like i'm in London, just turning my wrist and examining an object is the ultimate form of atmosphere soaking and totally important to the game where this is the setting.



^ And yet we spend the majority of the combat in the game fighting rebels with copy-pasted lycan encounters. And none of the behaviors you listed are "advanced," they're decent, but certainly not advanced at all. For example, look at destiny's AI. It has a ton of behaviors based on difficulty and player action
http://imgur.com/gallery/xiSFw/new

meanwhile things like this are common place in the order from my experience.

I even have some hilarious gifs recorded of the AI being braindead. It's not smart by any means nor are the AI tactics up to the standard that I would expect from a 2015 game that has a shit on a ps4, a console that has a shit ton more memory than the ps3. Instafail stealth is an archaic gameplay element, there is a very important reason why instafail stealth is being abandoned by tons of games like spinter cell, AC, and other stealth games, because it's simply not fun, no one wants to go back to the start of a level because they made one tiny mistake or in the case of the order, missed a QTE that most definitely doesn't need to be there in the first case because we have tons upon tons of games that do stealth better by making the stealth actual stealth with the game adjusting to whether or not the player gets caught midway, especially considering that both sections in the game end with the characters saying "Welp we caught, time for gun blazin. Man imagine if we had gotten caught earlier, probably would've been killed instantly. It doesn't even make sense for Lucan to say "Well ok Galahad, i'll let you kill all these guards." With an amazing ludonarrative dissonance moment happening later when the guy says "they incapacitated several of my guards!" Yea that crossbow to the face surely didn't kill them. The game is full of stuff like this. Baffling decisions both in the gameplay design and narrative, (literally no reason that the story had to be told in media res, seriously besides the fact that they had to have a "shocking" prologue which in turn is yet another straight faced cliche, which the game has many.) And regarding what you were saying earlier about how the game is being shit on despite being their first console outing, I think this is mainly in part to the hubris of the dev recently, they spouted some terrible PR the past few weeks
-Our game is like $100 steak
-This is a good preview for the future of video games
-Comparing the criticisms to bullying
not to mention all the things they said before release.
and in part to the absolute ridiculous amount of defending from those who were on the hype train. I've never seen a new IP defended as much as i've seen the order, especially in the face of compelling evidence, concerns that we would be fighting the human enemies were met with "No no just wait for the full game they're saving the lycan fights because they're probably the best part." Concerns about the QTEs were met with "No no it's a cinematic game." The dismissal of the short length with video proof with the line "Oh it's a speedrun." Having played it, it's impossible to speedrun the game because the dev multiple times takes away the option to jog, no not sprint, jog. A new IP and console outing or not, it has to hold up to a standard since it's being released in 2015, so no i'm not comparing it to works such as ICO, Journey, etc, i'm comparing it to the best of the industry since it's advertised as triple A with some of the best graphics in the industry. And it seems that that sentiment was shared by many reviewers as well.

This is what mygunplay segments looked like. Not once did I encounter any AI glitches like the on in that GIF and I still haven't on my second playthrough either.

A speed run int he game is possible by bypassing any and all exploration and moving directly from objective to objective with no deviation. Even when sprinting was allowed I often didnt sprint as I was busy looking at the environment and searching for collectibles. There are plenty of GAF members who took far longer than 6 hours to complete their playthrough so yes you cna in fact do a speedrun that heavily differs from a casual playthrough just like any other game despite the lack of a sprint control n every situation.

I have no knowledge of whatever references you are making to $100 steaks or bullying. Guess I missed those meltdowns. Youll have to excuse me as I may have been too busy reading up on one of the other 13 threads bashing the game leading up to it's release. I also think this game is an excellent showcase for the future of gaming on consoles from a technical standpoint. Unless youre arguing it has zero graphical merit in which case I would vehemently disagree.

As far as the story stuff goes I think you are being incredibly dismissive by implying that we only find things out via Lafayette's random questions. You can ctually find out about the nature of Igraine and Lucan's family way earlier if you wander about a bit and listen in on some whispered conversations. As I also mentioned there are quite a few lore, character and story hints hidden within the discoverable documents and audio logs in the game.

You have every right to disklike the random inspectables like the alcohol or the hammer but there are those of us who enjoyed looking at them and it's fairly obvious they are meant as a showcase to imbed you in the setting. You dont have to like it but others can and do.

You went into this game with a chip on your shoulder about it. That was absolutely obvious from your comments after the youtube video crap came out. Nothing I say is going to change your opinion on the matter but you need to accept that there are those of us who DID enjoy it and that our opinions aren't any less valid than your own. Your insistence that there are no redeemable qualities in the game is absolutely baffling and defies reason.

I spent a lot of time responding to each every part of your argument in two comprehensive posts and you have cherrypicked what you respond to ignoring anything that you choose to. So I'm done arguing with you. It's utterly pointless. You only answer or respond to what suits you and ignore everything else. If you want to continue the conversation take it to PM There's no point in further derailing the thread with a clearly fruitless argument.

 

[stryke]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

 

[John Bender]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

And I totally agree with him.

 

[King Beyond the wall]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

I agree, the reviews are certainly overly critical in my view.

 

[hiex_]

So I finished the game a few hours ago and here are some of my thoughts. Also, I play games on default difficulty always. The first two chapters of the game are very slow. I was actually turned off by that. Once you get to chapter 3 that pacing picks up. The third person shooter mechanics are nothing new but I enjoyed all of Teslas weapons. I am not offended by quick time events so none of those bothered me at all. I actually dont understand why people get so pissed about them. Graphically this game sets a new bar but I figured we all already knew that. The story was predictable and fell apart towards the end so thats that. Overall I would give the game a 7/10. I really think there is a solid foundation with a lot to improve upon. I really love the time period and aesthetic of the game.(wrote this from my phone)

I more or less agree with this, although I didn't have issues with the pacing. I like to bumble about and gawp at the scenery. The game did have issues but it was a lot of fun overall. I'm on a second play through now. I'd probably give a 7 or 8/10.

 

[viveks86]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

Ahhh… The classic battle between creator and critic. Love it!

 

[Chû Totoro]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

So they're sending copies so they can have good scores? I'm glad I don't read reviews from press getting their games from devs / publisher...

Your job is to make games, make good ones !
Your job is to make critics, make constructive ones !

Good game will get good scores, bad games will get bad scores. It's as simple as that...
Sometimes there is a division of opinion. Can't they live with that? Don't the devs / publishers like to read movie critics?

Spoiler

And I seriously think there is no division of opinion here, The Order may be an interesting concept/idea but it's bad executed so a lot of people can't even see what they tried to achieve.

 

[dracula_x]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

Plus (well, not about The Order reviews, but about gaming press in general):

 

[thebloo]

meanwhile things like this are common place in the order from my experience.

To go back to a subject you "enjoy", AC Unity was mauled for "look at this gif, this is EVERYBODY'S experience". Something I'm sure you disagree with it. So, I disagree with this. The AI scales pretty well with difficulty.

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

Aw, man. Don't do this...

 

[Atram]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

They are opening pandoras box with this.....take it and make it better next time

 

[Auto-Reply]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

We've send you our game for free to review our game, now give us positive feedback or else?

 

[d9b]

Most people who finished the game think it's a fantastic experience (not without certain flaws) and that is in complete opposition / contrast with most (if not all) major gaming websites' reviews.
Someone is out of touch,gamers or game journalists... You decide.

 

[Atram]

Most people who finished the game think it's a fantastic experience (not without certain flaws) and that is in complete opposition / contrast with most (if not all) major gaming websites' reviews.
Someone is out of touch,gamers or game journalists... You decide.

lets meet in the middle, because we have Fanboys on one side that defend every shit and journalists on the other side and they need many clicks.

and to be honest the most people here would give that game a 7/10 at max.

 

[Hypron]

We've send you our game for free to review our game, now give us positive feedback or else?

Yeah that kind of behaviour is pretty disgusting. I'm sure they were really happy when they saw GoW 3's review scores. You can't pick and choose.

 

[jellies_two]

only in the fevered mind of a keyboard warrior did they say their game was a 100 dollar steak.
All they did was give an example of where judging things just on dollars per playable hour makes as much sense as saying a large cheap meal is better than a smaller expensive one.
But people looking for the excuses to move the argument on just hear what they want to hear and key off a few words. Their only PR mistake was to respond.

 

[thebloo]

lets meet in the middle, because we have Fanboys on one side that defend every shit and journalists on the other side and they need many clicks.

and to be honest the most people here would give that game a 7/10 at max.

I would score it higher for myself, but I get why most would call it a 7/10 experience. A 4/10 however? Nope.

 

[tuna_love]

Most people who finished the game think it's a fantastic experience (not without certain flaws) and that is in complete opposition / contrast with most (if not all) major gaming websites' reviews.
Someone is out of touch,gamers or game journalists... You decide.

How would you know most people who finish it think its fantastic?

 

[jellies_two]

Yeah that kind of behaviour is pretty disgusting. I'm sure they were really happy when they saw GoW 3's review scores. You can't pick and choose.

"they"?
so Dean Rymer, who is a "senior combat designer" at a game studio, is speaking for Sony Santa Monica?

 

[Hypron]

I would score it higher for myself, but I get why most would call it a 7/10 experience. A 4/10 however? Nope.

The average review score is not 4/10 however. It's actually just a bit below a 7/10.

"they"?
so Dean Rymer, who is a "senior combat designer" at a game studio, is speaking for Sony Santa Monica?

Ugh. Replace that by "he" instead if it makes you happy.

 

[jonno394]

For me the game is an 8/10 experience. Fantastic production values, fun gameplay sequences and an overall high quality absorbing cinematic experience.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Most people who finished the game think it's a fantastic experience (not without certain flaws) and that is in complete opposition / contrast with most (if not all) major gaming websites' reviews.
Someone is out of touch,gamers or game journalists... You decide.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to enjoy a game but a natural reaction when you buy a thing is to see it better than it is.

Few people are going to say "what I bought is sh*t". It's a hard thing to do and in the particular The Order example it's even harder I think because some are bashing the game with too much enthusiasm imo and the "concept" itself of the game is divisive so...

Saying it's not a bad game may be a good start to discussion but saying "it's not a 6/10" looks like he's complaining only about a score and not the reasons press gave for putting such scores... also 6/10 is not that bad. It's an average game at best, they have to accept it. It's not because it's 5 years of work and millions of $ spent that it should automatically be 9/10 (and even this alone doesn't mean a lot... it's a fuc*ing number).

 

[Atram]

I would score it higher for myself, but I get why most would call it a 7/10 experience. A 4/10 however? Nope.

both ways are wrong in my eyes, >4/10 is bullshit bit <8/10 is bullshit too. This game has to many wrong things besides the awesome graphics.

And RAD can tell me so many times "this is a cinematic experience", in the end this is not a movie, it´s a game an not more and as a game The order fails.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I'm gonna throw in my two cents, not that it really matters, but for me personally The Order has been the most enjoyable experience I have had this gen. Now that's not saying that it is the best game I have played this gen, but I've enjoyed my time with it more than anything else that I have played. The game has its issues that everyone on here has touched upon and I agree with the flaws. I can see why some reviewers gave the game a 6 or whatever, the only one's I can't wrap my head around are the ones that gave it a 1 out of 5 or a 2 out of 5.

 

[INFINITY TR1GG3R]

Most people who finished the game think it's a fantastic experience (not without certain flaws) and that is in complete opposition / contrast with most (if not all) major gaming websites' reviews.
Someone is out of touch,gamers or game journalists... You decide.

I don't think you can ever call your user base out of touch. The fact that we have a product here that is being praised widely by the users and blasted widely by reviewers, opens up a lot of questions though.

I can't wrap my head round why the reviewers all hate it though, it's almost like the game i played and the game they played are totally separate entity's.

Makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Spades]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

Ridiculous comments TBH. Just because something is well made doesn't mean it's a great experience; which is ultimately what the game is being judged on.

 

[INFINITY TR1GG3R]

both ways are wrong in my eyes, >4/10 is bullshit bit <8/10 is bullshit too. This game has to many wrong things besides the awesome graphics.

And RAD can tell me so many times "this is a cinematic experience", in the end this is not a movie, it´s a game an not more and as a game The order fails.

Does it fail as a game though? I mean what gameplay it has, it does well. It's not full of bugs and glitches.

The only negative on the gameplay is perhaps it could be more varied and perhaps longer, with added reasons to replay.

Still nothing to drag it across the coals for. Certainly not enough to ward people off buying this.

 

[boredandlazy]

Oh deary me, one of the Sony Santa Monica devs certainly got a bit upset

I can see where he is coming from to an extent. But critics are allowed to have their opinions and review games accordingly. However in the case of the Order we had critics jumping on twitter openly making caustic jokes about the game. Which is just spiteful, unnecessary and wholly unprofessional.

 

[MaLDo]

Most people who finished the game think it's a fantastic experience (not without certain flaws) and that is in complete opposition / contrast with most (if not all) major gaming websites' reviews.
Someone is out of touch,gamers or game journalists... You decide.

Big contrast

 

[Avatar1]

I very much doubt that Bloodborne, MGSV, Uncharted 4, and many other triple A games this year will be forgotten. You're drastically oversimplifying triple A gaming . No, not all triple A games are "dumber ass videogames."

You sure do have an ax to grind with this game. Is it payback for what happened to unity, Yves?

 

[rselig1974]

Big contrast

You can't seriously be using metacritics user score to make a point. Those are always a complete joke. I'd bet 80% or more of the user scores on metacritic are from people that haven't played the game.

 

[jellies_two]

The average review score is not 4/10 however. It's actually just a bit below a 7/10.



Ugh. Replace that by "he" instead if it makes you happy.

ugh what.
it wasnt just you, with the "They".

One employee in thousands expresses his own view on twitter and suddenly its Sony/RAD with a terrible attitude making things worse.

"They are opening pandoras box with this.....take it and make it better next time"

I dont think people are mature enough to deal with the fire hose of social media it clearly connects too many nerves together.