KibblesBits
Member
blame space said:
wtf is this shit
a crazy goth chick's (Jarboe) scream for help and attention.
and a game where you get little girls raped and killed.
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The Path: Little Red Loli Rape Sim
- Thread starter FatalT
- Start date
a crazy goth chick's (Jarboe) scream for help and attention.
and a game where you get little girls raped and killed.
Bonfires Down
Member
Wish I could say I'm surprised at GAFs reaction to this but... not really.
CamHostage
Member
Yaweee said:
I don't know if I'd call it poseur bullshit, but it is art for art's sake and less a game that's also art. Tale of Tales is very much into this. They use the form of the interactive digital environment as their method of creating their artistic expression. There's actually a lot of this in the college design and indie gaming circuits, some of which are actually neat and/or fun while others are less interested in the quality of play the user experiences (some actually make their games intentionally aggravating.) One could call it bullshit, one could call it art, one could call it bullshit art. Not everybody would call it a "game", but then again, I guess the same has been said about interactive experiments like NobyNoby Boy.
Tale of Tales has ambition towards a positive experience at least, but I don't think they're very good game makers, and I don't see many people happy to pay money to experience somebody's art project / videogame if the videogame portion sucks. There might be some reason for exploring this Games that Aren't Fun genre, but I have yet to play one of these games where the experience is so emotional or captivating or chilling that I got swept into it and ignored the sucky game underneath.
cultofweaver
Member
Tom Chick is spot on with his 'Silent Hill' comparison, but he usually is. The whole game carries the same mood of enveloping dread, but also the enticing need to enter into that abyss that Silent Hill 1 did.
Some of the 'gameplay' is poorly implemented and the the lag between impression and action is just the wrong side of annoying, but nonetheless the ideas that the game contains are worth persevering for.
The game essentially forces you to abandon common sense and leap into the unknown, knowing that you will almost certainly run afoul because of this. But even though you know the outcome will probably be bad for you, you find yourself drawn into doing it time and time again thanks to that instinctive curious need to explore and discover.
I like the use of the Red Riding Hood tale to encapsulate the central theme a lot. It fits perfectly and allows the archetype to take the slack that inevitably develops in the threading of ideas nicely.
I can't recommend it as a game, but as an examination of choice and consequence it works well. It doesn't say anything especially compelling or new, but it uses the world and character bond that interactive narrative work is best at providing to show a glimpse at what interactive art could bring us down the line.
Some of the 'gameplay' is poorly implemented and the the lag between impression and action is just the wrong side of annoying, but nonetheless the ideas that the game contains are worth persevering for.
The game essentially forces you to abandon common sense and leap into the unknown, knowing that you will almost certainly run afoul because of this. But even though you know the outcome will probably be bad for you, you find yourself drawn into doing it time and time again thanks to that instinctive curious need to explore and discover.
I like the use of the Red Riding Hood tale to encapsulate the central theme a lot. It fits perfectly and allows the archetype to take the slack that inevitably develops in the threading of ideas nicely.
I can't recommend it as a game, but as an examination of choice and consequence it works well. It doesn't say anything especially compelling or new, but it uses the world and character bond that interactive narrative work is best at providing to show a glimpse at what interactive art could bring us down the line.
This is kind of funny because I went in blind and bought this and played it and while it controlled slowly and was weird I just figured that was because it was another artsy indie non-game like Flower or something and enjoyed it for being different but wouldn't want to play it more than the 30 mins I did (which is how I feel after 90% of artsy indie non-games).
Then I read the OP and the Diehard GameFAN review and discover it's actually a terrible game.
I guess I just assume all these types of non-games are terrible outside their artistic merits. ^^;
Then I read the OP and the Diehard GameFAN review and discover it's actually a terrible game.
I guess I just assume all these types of non-games are terrible outside their artistic merits. ^^;
akachan ningen
Member
Wasn't there a game like this coming out for DS? It wasn't Doki Doki Majou Shinpan, it was something more recent.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Horrible OP. Too bad something like it can color the discussion successfully.
Darkmakaimura
Member
Jarboe, as in from the Swans?KibblesBits said:
Timekiller
Member
Chowfahn said:
yeah, holy shit, probably the worst piece i have ever seen. The "Jesus" and "good god" stuff he uses in the article is ridiculous, and when he goes with stuff like "anti-video game nuts out there" or "Well, background designs arent very good. In fact, its quite rubbish.", "one of the buggiest pieces of crap I have ever played", "making even the most patient gamer go, GET ON WITH IT!, or "The one time I didnt want it. Sigh." it's pure 11 years old forum lurker leet genius.
"Sigh" ??? What the fuck?
There's a line, "Just. Plain. Bad.", and another one, "the worst game I have ever played. Yes. THE. WORST." that reminds of "Pics. Now." or "Best. Game. Ever." and other nerd forum formulas with points that really makes me impressed.But the best paragraph is probably the last:
:lol :lol
after all these, reading the line
, almost had me fall off the seat laughing :lol :lol :lol
Night_Trekker
Member
CamHostage said:
Maybe it doesn't work all that well (I dunno, haven't played it), but I'm glad someone out there is trying to test the boundaries of what a "game" can be. If only we had more of that, or more interest in it.
Timekiller
Member
Night_Trekker said:
Yes
KibblesBits
Member
Darkmakaimura said:
yes
I take back the negative things I said earlier ("poseur bullshit that tries to be meaningful by using taboo issues")
Some of the reviews make it seem pretty good, like a rather open game that doesn't necessarily end in rape-- hell, most of the reviews don't even mention that word. Six characters explore the forest, each with their own events that reveal something about them.
The walking speed still sounds like an issue, so I'm still not sure whether or not I want to try it.
Some of the reviews make it seem pretty good, like a rather open game that doesn't necessarily end in rape-- hell, most of the reviews don't even mention that word. Six characters explore the forest, each with their own events that reveal something about them.
The walking speed still sounds like an issue, so I'm still not sure whether or not I want to try it.
Baloonatic
Member
I don't really get how someone can come to the conclusion that all these girls get raped.
Joseph Merrick
Member
what selfrespecting nefarious male type character that just beat up and stole some girl's wallet wouldn't also just go ahead and rape her? makes perfect sense. I don't think anyone would be able to let this temptation go. of course these girls are being raped. OF COURSE. men are men, bro man. you sick bastards.
oh yeah, and jarboe is jarboe. fucking awesome. that was the one reason I was interested in this game, any words on the music or whatever she did for tale of tales here? hm, need to look up her latest album in fact.
oh yeah, and jarboe is jarboe. fucking awesome. that was the one reason I was interested in this game, any words on the music or whatever she did for tale of tales here? hm, need to look up her latest album in fact.
Joseph Merrick
Member
haha
KidGalactus
Member
ToT has cheerleaders now?
Heh...
Anyhow. These guys are producing games that are thematically driven rather than driven by their content... or even the skill of the people working on it.
If you clowns want games to be art, there's going to be a lot of this going down. As much as you like them, as much as I like them, Metal Gear is not art, Mario is not art and Halo is certainly not art. They can be artistic in their executions... but they aren't art.
And yeah, while I think the rape metaphor in this is kind of distasteful, art doesn't have to be enjoyable or pleasant or agreeable to make a point.
Heh...
Anyhow. These guys are producing games that are thematically driven rather than driven by their content... or even the skill of the people working on it.
If you clowns want games to be art, there's going to be a lot of this going down. As much as you like them, as much as I like them, Metal Gear is not art, Mario is not art and Halo is certainly not art. They can be artistic in their executions... but they aren't art.
And yeah, while I think the rape metaphor in this is kind of distasteful, art doesn't have to be enjoyable or pleasant or agreeable to make a point.
wayward archer
Member
Baloonatic said:
Well, I just played through the whole thing (didn't unlock everything, but got each girl to their "wolf") and the thread title is terribly off. One of the girls might get raped, but it's certainly not presented as something the game glorifies or exploits.
In fact if you play through to the end it's debatable that any of them even die. Forming your own interpretation is what the creators were obviously going for, since the house at the end of each girls' story changes dramatically depending on what you do in the forest, and what you see inside the house seems to flesh out their fates a bit.
The one girl that does seem to get raped, I think represents
her getting drunk at a party, getting raped by a guy she knew, and her getting pregnant from it as well - represented by the tree growing out of the bed in one of the rooms at grandmother's house
I don't even think most of them are supposed to be violent endings, but are some kind of personal tragedy that happens to each of them. Nothing that happens in the forest is meant to be taken 100% literally.
Anyway, I enjoyed it. Pacing is _extremely_ slow and not for everyone. Also some people will be frustrated that one clear explanation is not given in the end.
My interpretation of the whole game:
I think all the girls represent the same person... the grandmother, at different stages of her life going through various traumatic events, and that the whole game is a dream/memory the grandmother is having about her life while laying on her deathbed. The girl in the white dress represents either her own conscience that guided her or someone who helped her out at various stages along her life.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Bebpo said:
Your attempt to troll Flower was hilarious bullshit.
Flower is a real game, with real gameplay, and it controls beautifully. Flower has nothing in common with those kinds of "artsy indie non-games" that don't have proper gameplay or good controls. So you fail at stealth trolling.
Jesus Shoes
Banned
hmmmmmmmm this looks odd:lol
Well done, OP. Consider me interested. Not because the game features loli rape (honestly, there are tons of loli games out there, and undoubtly some of them will have rape scenes), but because I saw it on Steam and I tought it was just a shitty point and click adventure. But now... I might give it a try.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
McBacon said:
Is it worth getting? It has my curiousity piqued, for sure, just to see what the hell they're doing ever since the short blurb about it in Edge a couple of months back.
I've played this game being utterly disappointed that the thread title lies. 8D
However! This is a complete arthouse game. The game part of it is practically nonexistent. All you do is run around, ever slowly, collecting random intractable items. Apparently unlocks something.
I played two rounds of getting my girl raped, collected a few items, and thought the whole game was rather enjoyable as art, but, terrible as a game. So, only get this "game" if you're into looking at extremely depressing Picasso paintings. It's really beautiful stuff though. Great art style.
I would like to understand the whole point of the gothic loli emoness and getting yourself killed, but it's probably too deep for me.
Oh yeah, when you start to let each sister get raped, they do disappear. As I felt that the youngest one was the fastest runner, you should probably save her for collecting stuff.
However! This is a complete arthouse game. The game part of it is practically nonexistent. All you do is run around, ever slowly, collecting random intractable items. Apparently unlocks something.
I played two rounds of getting my girl raped, collected a few items, and thought the whole game was rather enjoyable as art, but, terrible as a game. So, only get this "game" if you're into looking at extremely depressing Picasso paintings. It's really beautiful stuff though. Great art style.
I would like to understand the whole point of the gothic loli emoness and getting yourself killed, but it's probably too deep for me.
Oh yeah, when you start to let each sister get raped, they do disappear. As I felt that the youngest one was the fastest runner, you should probably save her for collecting stuff.
Yaweee said:
Indeed.
Their press releases talk about how they are creating something which has never been done before in the realm of video games. How they are crafting the gameplay around the plot, not the other way around.
And what you end up with is basically a watered-down point and click adventure with almost nothing to do, and you can only "win" by dying.
Joseph Merrick said:
R-Really?
I guess I don't know about all other guys out there, but I can keep it in my pants.
Hari Seldon
Member
This might be art. I don't really care. I hate modern art. Pass.
KidGalactus said:
I agree with you. I also think, though, that just because something is intended as art doesn't mean that it is automatically good art.
It's pretty clear that ToT's goal with The Path was to push the rules of the medium. This can be a pretty effective artistic tool at times (see 4'33" or abstract art) but only if you truly understand the rules that you are breaking.
When I look at the Path, what I see are a bunch of art students, not game design students (which is important. I wouldn't expect a master sculptor to compose a symphony) trying to make "art" by purposefully breaking rules, rather than simply ignoring the ones that get in their way, and then adding a layer of "angsty-ness" to make it seem more poignant.
So yes, if we want art in game it is going to come from things like this, not from Mario or Solid Snake, but I also think that we need to call it out for its artistic merit as well.
And, honestly, I don't care about there being rape in the game. If anything, it seems almost too predictable, that in some angsty, goth-themed game, some one ends up raped, and woe is them. I'm not offended, I'm just bored.
Farnack said:
It's a technical difference that functions the same. My point was that I read pages of ToT proclaiming that they had made something never before made, and then it turns out to be every other PC adventure game I played growing up.
Kiriku said:
Depends on whether or not they actually bring anything new to the table, and whether or not they claim to.
The path makes a big show of being different, but it isn't. I don't mind games that aren't different, but I do mind when a game claims to be something that it isn't.
I don't find the fact that you can technically complete the game by walking straight down the path and doing nothing to be innovative. I did that years ago in Myst. If ToT hadn't been claiming innovation then I wouldn't make this complaint, but when the entire stated purpose of the game is to "break the rules", then god dammit, I want to see some actual rules being broken.
Where are their claims of innovation? I think you have fallen into the trap of whining about the game's advocates rather than the game itself.Evander said:
I'm pretty sure what ToT considers interesting or different about this title isn't the fact that you can "beat" it quickly.
So, after reading a variety of conflicting reviews I actually caved and downloaded the game for $9.
The OP should be ashamed of what he wrote. I honestly don't think I've seen anything that misleading ever posted on GAF. Not only is it completely untenable to state that all of the characters get raped, the one ending that strays closest to the topic isn't necessarily non-consensual.
Whether or not it's a game is debatable, and if it is, well, it isn't a very a good one. Still, as a piece of interactive art-- you're literally just plopped down on the path and given absolute freedom to explore the non-linear woods-- it's interesting. Not necessarily fun, but there's plenty of stuff to see, interact with, and interpret at your own pace.
If there's anything negative to be said about the game, it's that it wanders close to "Random shit as art." Sure, you can up with a coherent interpretation of the events, but that doesn't mean the authors had anything particular in mind.
As many of the reviews said, the run/walking speeds are too slow, the framerate and appearance are inconsistent, and you can make it through all the characters in 2-3 hours without having the slightest damn clue of what you witnessed. Still, there's some interesting stuff in the package (like how and why the events at grandma's house change based on what you do in the forest), and an outstanding soundtrack. I feel it was worth what I paid, at the very least.
The OP should be ashamed of what he wrote. I honestly don't think I've seen anything that misleading ever posted on GAF. Not only is it completely untenable to state that all of the characters get raped, the one ending that strays closest to the topic isn't necessarily non-consensual.
Whether or not it's a game is debatable, and if it is, well, it isn't a very a good one. Still, as a piece of interactive art-- you're literally just plopped down on the path and given absolute freedom to explore the non-linear woods-- it's interesting. Not necessarily fun, but there's plenty of stuff to see, interact with, and interpret at your own pace.
If there's anything negative to be said about the game, it's that it wanders close to "Random shit as art." Sure, you can up with a coherent interpretation of the events, but that doesn't mean the authors had anything particular in mind.
As many of the reviews said, the run/walking speeds are too slow, the framerate and appearance are inconsistent, and you can make it through all the characters in 2-3 hours without having the slightest damn clue of what you witnessed. Still, there's some interesting stuff in the package (like how and why the events at grandma's house change based on what you do in the forest), and an outstanding soundtrack. I feel it was worth what I paid, at the very least.
border said:
I haven;t bothered to read anything from the advocates of the game, because most;y they just sit around insisting that there is no rape (there is) or that the rape isn't a big deal (it isn't)
My introduction to the concept of the story was from a Game Informer article (http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200901/N09.0129.1833.38390.htm) I was skeptical, but intriughed enough to read up more on the game.
I hink the moment that really cemented my view on the game was reading the following bio off of ToT's page for the Path (http://tale-of-tales.com/ThePath/):
I found it to be poorly written, and dripping with all kinds of faux-artsiness. You can tell that whoever was writing that bio was a little too proud of it.
After that bio I went on to read a series of press releases, and watch a series of gameplay videos, that very much sealed my opinion for me.
Evander said:
There's no writing like that bio in the game, though, so I don't think that's particularly fair. And since when have press releases been an accurate representation of whatever they fuck they're trying to sell?
Something is seriously fucking wrong with the people that see everything in the game as a metaphor for child rape. I mean, seriously? The lake? The barbed wire? The power lines? There's about 4 or 5 interpretations of the overall game I've seen, and the "RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE" is only one of them, and it incorporates the fewest pieces of evidence from the game.
Personally, my interpretation is that
each of the wolves represents the dangers of different phases in life.
-Actual monsters (mauled by a wolf)
-Playing where one shouldn't (shocked by the power lines)
-Wandering beyond one's limits (drowning in the lake)
-The allure of the dangerous (loses her leg in a car accident)
-Seduction/manipulation (falling for the older, talented guy)
-Unsafe sex (drunken sex with a love interest)
I'm not convinced that the girls each represent the same woman, but I can understand why people would think that.
-Actual monsters (mauled by a wolf)
-Playing where one shouldn't (shocked by the power lines)
-Wandering beyond one's limits (drowning in the lake)
-The allure of the dangerous (loses her leg in a car accident)
-Seduction/manipulation (falling for the older, talented guy)
-Unsafe sex (drunken sex with a love interest)
I'm not convinced that the girls each represent the same woman, but I can understand why people would think that.
wayward archer
Member
Evander said:
You can't technically complete the game by walking straight down the path, because there is a real ending if you manage to meet all 6 wolves (and then play the 'secret' level). I also don't understand your fixation on stating that they are trying to "break the rules". How so? They obviously intend for it to be like an adventure game, with an inventory system, different characters you can meet, various puzzles, secrets, etc. There are two ways you can complete each level... go straight to grandmother's house or find the 'wolf' in the forest, everything else is optional. That is very by the rules in a game sense. Yes the game gives you a grade on how many of each girls' events you find in the forest, how far you traveled, etc, but that certainly isn't the point to the game, more like some feedback on how much stuff you didn't see.
This is obviously intended to be a mood piece, just like their previous 'game' The Graveyard which I found to be quite boring much as you found this to be boring. It's not going to work for everyone. It has a charm that worked for me and will appeal to some. I don't really think it's that "angsty" either. Dark and Angsty are two different things... there is surprisingly little 'woe is me' and back of the hand to the forehead going on in this game.
I wouldn't ever say this game (or any "art-game" project) is immune to traditional games criticism: The graphics aren't technically very good for a modern game although I find it aesthetically pleasing most of the time. Most of the characters run very slow and the controls in general really aren't that good, your inventory doesn't do anything at all except display some words on the screen that are the girls' thoughts (each girl has a different reaction to the objects), and the objectives, both mandatory (to finishing it) and optional are not well defined at all, but I would also say that this game is not trying to sell you on the aspects of it that are game like, but on the fact that it is trying to create a frame for the audience to create an experience out of (much like 4'33).
Yes I would say that this is one of the few instances that games and art actually overlap, even though it certainly won't be considered a good game or art by everyone for that matter.
It's a shame it doesn't have a demo, because this is really the kind of product I can't recommend to anyone since everyone is likely to see it in a different way. I would suggest that interested potential buyers play The Graveyard demo first, to get a glimpse of what they are actually getting into, because it isn't really a straight up game they are laying down money for.