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[How About No]

I don't think I even understand what's happening here?

Like, if I close my eyes it's literally just black, kinda fuzzy. But it's like... beneath that layer of black I can see whatever image I'm thinking of. It's not that I'm SEEING the image "per se" like on a movie screen or something but more like I know what the image looks like and imagine it being there?

IDK really.

I think that's normal, those with this can't even do that. You don't really need to close your eyes either unless you think it helps you focus

 

[17 Seconds]

now i'm sitting here visualizing random shit in my mind and wondering how i'm doing it

 

[Snowybreak]

It's not all roses.

-- I am haunted by embarrassing moments from my past. At seemingly random points I'll recall one of them and I'll physically wince and shudder at how intense it feels all over again.
-- I have an addictive personality and I tend to obsess over things that peak my interest. I will at times recall the rush I felt while obsessing over something in my past and I have to actively fight against chasing that obsession again.

etc.

It's almost as if it works too well, to my detriment, at times.

Dude... Are you me or something? I have that happen at least once every couple of days. It can be really rough sometimes.

(Also I share your excitement for Pumking, but I'm more excited for Warlock :3)

 

[Steejee]

It's abnormal to not picture faces etc. from book characters? I just... read without imagining too much things.

When I read books they play out like movies in a way. Sped up movies granted, since reading is faster than watching, but movies. Every character has an appearance with clothes, hair, etc. I see the feasts, the battles, two people standing around talking. I can hear them talking even. Smells get the least amount of 'visualization', but they happen from time to time if a scene is described well enough.

I think I measure on the inverse side with Hyperphantasia based on that BBC article. I spent a *lot* of time daydreaming as a kid and during class.

For those with Aphantasia, I'm going to guess 'no', but have you ever had a song 'stuck in your head'? It seems like that concept would be completely alien. I remember in college having trouble in a Calc 3 midterm because the Offspring's "Come out and Play" was stuck in infinite loop in my head. Basically sounded almost as clear to me as it would if I had a radio next to me. I knew I really wasn't hearing it, but it was about as vivid.

I don't think I even understand what's happening here?

Like, if I close my eyes it's literally just black, kinda fuzzy. But it's like... beneath that layer of black I can see whatever image I'm thinking of. It's not that I'm SEEING the image "per se" like on a movie screen or something but more like I know what the image looks like and imagine it being there?

IDK really.

I think that's fairly typical. While I just describe how I can pretty intensely visualize things, being awake and doing it does typically overlay some darkness (if my eyes are closed) on top of my mental image. I actually find that if I daydream (so eyes open) the visuals are sharper, like I get distracted a little if my eyes are closed and can't completely override my visual senses.

 

[zethren]

What about when you read? Are you able to visualize what's happening in the story as you read?

I'm an incredibly visual person by nature, and always in my head creating and thinking about stories and new projects (either writing or illustrative in nature). I can't imagine what it's like, OP.

 

[17 Seconds]

imagine having this before internet porn existed

 

[deadlast]

Welcome to the club OP. Buy a whiteboard for work and carry a notebook to drawing in.

What about when you read? Are you able to visualize what's happening in the story as you read?

I'm an incredibly visual person by nature, and always in my head creating and thinking about stories and new projects (either writing or illustrative in nature). I can't imagine what it's like, OP.

Imagine not being able to visualize what you're reading, and having dyslexia. That's my life.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I figured there was a range of ability with regards to the mind's eye, like Remy vs. his brother in Ratatouille, but for some reason I didn't consider that range goes to 0.

After reading the article, I tested out the depth of my mind's eye.

Examples:

-- I can visualize a working car engine and explode it, slice it, rotate it while it is still in motion.
-- I can replay "Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground" as if it is playing from a car radio.
-- I can intensely recall the flavor of Pumpking, by Southern Tier, the caramel, cinnamon, heavy taste and how I can't wait for that to come back soon.

etc...

The fact that not everyone can do this is pretty eye-opening to me. Never realized this.
I can do all those things as well. I can point my mind in literally any direction and it'll create vivid mental images that I can explore whatever way I want. Be it objects, conversations, scenarios, whatever.

I've always been happy with the fact that i'm a fast visual learner, but i've never thought about why exactly.

 

[Apple Turnover]

For those with Aphantasia, I'm going to guess 'no', but have you ever had a song 'stuck in your head'? It seems like that concept would be completely alien. I remember in college having trouble in a Calc 3 midterm because the Offspring's "Come out and Play" was stuck in infinite loop in my head. Basically sounded almost as clear to me as it would if I had a radio next to me. I knew I really wasn't hearing it, but it was about as vivid.

When I've got a song stuck in my head, it's like the words are just constantly invading my internal monologue. I have no perception of the instruments, just the lyrics and the tune

 

[Occam]

I'd like to know, can you draw pictures?

Since obviously you are able to recognize people, places and items, this visual information has to be stored in your brain. You also said you dream, meaning the data *is* there.
But apparently some sort of barrier prevents you from directly accessing it with your mind's eye while you are awake. Fascinating.

Oh yeah, what about audio memory? Can you remember/play music in your mind?

 

[Moose Biscuits]

God, what a depressing concept. The idea of not being able to daydream, or recall images or sounds (or smells, or tastes, or textures - I'm making the point of imagining grabbing a pinecone while wearing rubber gloves right now, and despite never having done so I can imagine the feel of it), sounds like the worst.

I live in my head most of the time though, so (ironically) I couldn't imagine living with this condition.

You have my sympathies, OP.

 

[Lenz44]

I have it, and it really freaks you out for a few weeks. And then you stop caring, because you have lived your life with it, and nothing really changes. It is a free icebreaker that freaks people out though, it's good for a laugh or two. But once the weirdness stops, life goes back to normal.

It's weird though, but I know what my wife looks like, I can point her out in a crowd no problem. But I can't picture her face in my mind now if you asked me. I've been with her for 7 years as a frame of reference.

 

[Lenz44]

Welcome to the club OP. Buy a whiteboard for work and carry a notebook to drawing in.

Imagine not being able to visualize what you're reading, and having dyslexia. That's my life.

I never actually thought that this might be the cause of my lack of drive to read anything.

 

[deadlast]

I never actually thought that this might be the cause of my lack of drive to read anything.

When details are just obstructing you from getting to the story, reading becomes less enjoyable.

 

[Sinistral]

Yup having this for is like trying to draw an image on an etch-a-sketch that is being constantly erased for me. My lines fade, so I have to draw faster and faster lines. It's how I visualize things but it will never get as good as a full rendered image.

Growing up, as an artist was difficult as I was always good at replicating what I can see, but very poor at producing stuff from my imagination. So there was a lot of replication and duplication. As I grew older, I fell out of drawing habits and into Photography.

I don't see what I dream when I rarely do, and those often are forgotten quickly unless I actively try and store it. It's more like the thought is instilled into me how I recall memories. From an index of a huge fragmented data set.

 

[Lenz44]

When details are just obstructing you from getting to the story, reading becomes less enjoyable.

That's really true. I try to get into fantasy, but I always burn out pretty quick. It turns into frustration and boredom.

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Steejee pretty much described me. I often joke that I spend way too much time in my head.

 

[M3d10n]

Now that we are on the subject, how consistently can you guys visualize stuff? Like if I try to imagine a person walking on the street that I might not even know, I can't hold a gif like clip in my head with all clarity. It's more like a gif that has a lot of frames skipped so the animation is not fully smooth and the details aren't coming to my head like you would see in a gif animation. The details and colors will many times get lost. I can make out the overall scene and flow of things because I'm the one visualizing it but it's very bad quality if it could be exported into a video clip.

I have always assumed that this is how it is for most people, but maybe there are people who can picture a perfect "movie" in their heads rich with details etc.?

I found out I can consciously "replay" my memory of the same day with astonishing detail if I focus deeply enough. It becomes harder with memories older than the current day, with unimportant details becoming fuzzier and requiring more effort to pierce together the longer it has been: I suppose this is an effect of the brain only being able to "garbage collect" during sleep.

 

[deadlast]

That's really true. I try to get into fantasy, but I always burn out pretty quick. It turns into frustration and boredom.

Audio books are your friend. You can listen to them and get the story without the frustration.

I just realized, based on our back and forth, all of these points are why I love graphic novels so much more than novels. I really enjoy following stories and dialogues. Graphic novels allow me to enjoy stories without the inability to visualize holding me back.

 

[Purkake4]

Audio books are your friend. You can listen to them and get the story without the frustration.

That does work pretty well.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I think that everything a person can picture in their mind is an amalgamation of things they have actually seen in their lives. You can do this to a single object, anything and whatever texture, colour and other properties it has, are all properties you have been exposed to somewhere, even if not together in any way. Or do it with a scenario, picture yourself fighting someone. Every action you can perceive is a combination, alteration or weird collage of things you have actually witnessed in some form.

This being the case, a persons ability to picture something in their mind is directly related to their experience and memory, not just imagination. A person exposed to nothing their entire lives would not be able to do this, nor would a baby. They would not have any basis for images in their mind to be constructed from.

It is really interesting, and opens up a lot of questions. I'm glad you posted about this OP, though again I'm sorry for the folks that have to live with it.

 

[StarCreator]

I came across this writeup or something very similar to it a while ago. Some of it describes my experience: I have no visual imagination at all, and if someone tells me to close my eyes and imagine something, I see nothing but the inside of my eyelids.

With music, I can get songs stuck in my head, but keeping that song playing takes effort and it's more like I'm constantly replaying the memory of hearing the song rather than actually hearing it out of an imaginary radio.

However, that author says he isn't able to dream, which isn't true for me. I don't remember them often, but I have dreams that feel like reality.

So yeah, I'm not quite sure what I am.

 

[Shredderi]

I found out I can consciously "replay" my memory of the same day with astonishing detail if I focus deeply enough. It becomes harder with memories older than the current day, with unimportant details becoming fuzzier and requiring more effort to pierce together the longer it has been: I suppose this is an effect of the brain only being able to "garbage collect" during sleep.

Interesting. It's a fascinating subject that I imagine is not that well researched as of yet.

 

[Jenov]

It's not all roses.

-- I am haunted by embarrassing moments from my past. At seemingly random points I'll recall one of them and I'll physically wince and shudder at how intense it feels all over again.
-- I have an addictive personality and I tend to obsess over things that peak my interest. I will at times recall the rush I felt while obsessing over something in my past and I have to actively fight against chasing that obsession again.

etc.

It's almost as if it works too well, to my detriment, at times.

Damn, that happens to me too, sucks at around bed time when your mind tends to wander and you go back to events in the past. I tend to re-live it in my mind, like a film, some of the more embarrassing or cringe worthy moments of life, all those terrible feelings come back because it's so real in my mind.

On the other hand, I think I'm a terrific lucid dreamer as a result, and tend to superman my way through the roof in my dreams (once I realize it's a dream). Also makes for some terrifying night terrors at times.

Same here. In fact I've alwasy assumed everyone else "visualises" as I do - just remembering abstract things rather than literally picturing that thing in their mind.

Found a BBC article on it, that includes a test (sorry if already posted): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34039054

Basically no image at all for all questions (although sometimes it seems like I can picture something... it's hard to explain), although I have no difficulty recognising people as the main text of the article says of the subject.

Makes sense now that I don't build an actual picture of an object from something that I read, even if it's a very vivid description. I enjoy reading, but find myself remembering plot points and actions/consequence associated with a character rather than the characters appearance. :/

Interesting. So according to that article the opposite condition of Aphantasia is Hyperphantasia, or having exceptionally strong powers of visualization. I scored as hyper.

 

[Jenov]

double post

 

[Korgill]

I'm a little more interested in the music point. Do most people struggle to hear all the instruments and vocals when remembering songs? I can usually "hear" everything and can usually come up with most lyrics if I focus on trying to remember.

 

[McLovin]

Wait people can imagine things clearly? I get like a blurry pixelated image that kind of looks like what it's suppose to be. Actually they have this technique that puts your thought into a screen and it looks like shit but you can tell what it is, that's kind of what I see when I imagine things. Its different when I day dream out of boredom though. In that case it's almost like a movie.

 

[Brannon]

So when we say that 'books are an experience', there are people that say 'no they're not', because they literally have no idea what the hell we're talking about

Like... in the Hunger Games (yeah, it's simple enough), the description of all the foods, or even better (worse), that burnt loaf of bread chucked at Katniss into the mud and getting soaked and knowing that she has no choice but to eat it, and you're eating it in your mind, tasting the bread and the soggy wetness and the mud, smelling of yeast and earth and now you know a bit about why Katniss feels the way she does and understand where she's coming from... but to some people, it's just words getting in the way.

To be denied worlds... is unfair.

 

[jelly]

I'm a little more interested in the music point. Do most people struggle to hear all the instruments and vocals when remembering songs? I can usually "hear" everything and can usually come up with most lyrics if I focus on trying to remember.

I don't remember lyrics at all. Barely the tune.

 

[ponpo]

Reading the stuff the OP posted, I'm confused as to where I fall in the visualization ability. I definitely don't visualize anything while reading but I never thought about more concrete things.

If I tell you to imagine a beach, you can picture the golden sand and turquoise waves. If I ask for a red triangle, your mind gets to drawing. And mom’s face? Of course.

You experience this differently, sure. Some of you see a photorealistic beach, others a shadowy cartoon. Some of you can make it up, others only “see” a beach they’ve visited. Some of you have to work harder to paint the canvas. Some of you can’t hang onto the canvas for long. But nearly all of you have a canvas.

I don’t. I have never visualized anything in my entire life. I can’t “see” my father’s face or a bouncing blue ball, my childhood bedroom or the run I went on ten minutes ago. I thought “counting sheep” was a metaphor. I’m 30 years old and I never knew a human could do any of this. And it is blowing my goddamned mind.

Like in this example, how vivid is the beach or the red triangle in the normal mind? Eyes open or closed, I can't conjure anything visual for either of these two. The workflow seems like my brain is trying to visualize a red triangle because it is being asked to, I just see all black instead, then I give up the visualization part and think "well if I could imagine what a red triangle would look like in reality, so I'll agree to understand the concept of what one might look like" but zero visualization is taking place, just an understanding.

Can people 'see' these visualizations more vividly?

 

[Jenov]

Reading the stuff the OP posted, I'm confused as to where I fall in the visualization ability. I definitely don't visualize anything while reading but I never thought about more concrete things.



Like in this example, how vivid is the beach or the red triangle in the normal mind? Eyes open or closed, I can't conjure anything visual for either of these two. The workflow seems like my brain is trying to visualize a red triangle because it is being asked to, I just see all black instead, then I give up the visualization part and think "well if I could imagine what a red triangle would look like in reality, so I'll agree to understand the concept of what one might look like" but zero visualization is taking place, just an understanding.

Can people 'see' these visualizations more vividly?

Mine are pretty vivid. Perhaps it's a spectrum for people. From little to no ability, to blurry images and to very vivid visualization at the far end.

 

[rjinaz]

Wait people can imagine things clearly? I get like a blurry pixelated image that kind of looks like what it's suppose to be. Actually they have this technique that puts your thought into a screen and it looks like shit but you can tell what it is, that's kind of what I see when I imagine things. Its different when I day dream out of boredom though. In that case it's almost like a movie.

I can imagine things clearly. It's different for more complex things, like human faces for example, but I can picture a red apple in my mind right now and I can clearly see every detail I imagine like the size, the color, the roundness, from the stem to the speckles on the skin. It's all there as if it were real.

I'm not sure how useful that is. I'd much rather have an artistic or musical kind of creativity.

 

[ponpo]

Mine are pretty vivid. Perhaps it's a spectrum for people. From little to no ability, to blurry images and to very vivid visualization at the far end.

I can imagine things clearly. It's different for more complex things, like human faces for example, but I can picture a red apple in my mind right now and I can clearly see every detail I imagine like the size, the color, the roundness, from the stem to the speckles on the skin. It's all there as if it were real.

I'm not sure how useful that is. I'd much rather have an artistic or musical kind of creativity.

WhooaaAaAaAA. Mind actually blown.

Not really into internet self-diagnosis and this doesn't appear to have any negative impact but if people can actually 'see' their visualizations somewhat then I'm much more towards the "see nothing but black" end of the spectrum.

 

[YuShtink]

I don't think I even understand what's happening here?

Like, if I close my eyes it's literally just black, kinda fuzzy. But it's like... beneath that layer of black I can see whatever image I'm thinking of. It's not that I'm SEEING the image "per se" like on a movie screen or something but more like I know what the image looks like and imagine it being there?

IDK really.

The Cartesian Theater. It's baffled people for centuries.

 

[Jenov]

I wonder if ASMR has any linking to this. I know some people can experience it and others cannot. Do people with Aphantasia feel anything from watching an ASMR video? Perhaps things like ASMR, your ability to visualize with the mind's eye, and lucid dreaming are connected.

 

[longdi]

I'm a little more interested in the music point. Do most people struggle to hear all the instruments and vocals when remembering songs? I can usually "hear" everything and can usually come up with most lyrics if I focus on trying to remember.

I cant remember music tune and lyrics.
Unless it is something short and chirpy, like FF battle victory tune. I can't even recall FF battle music.

 

[LordKasual]

You can't visualize or recall things?

Jesus christ, road trips must be terrible

i'm sorry OP


But if it never bothered you before you put a name to it, don't let it bother you now lol.

At least you never have to relive embarrassing moments


You aren't "alone", you're just "different". Embrace it, make it a part of your personality!

 

[TheExodu5]

I'm a little more interested in the music point. Do most people struggle to hear all the instruments and vocals when remembering songs? I can usually "hear" everything and can usually come up with most lyrics if I focus on trying to remember.

I can remember a song melody and all the instruments, even little flourishes. Lyrics are hard for me to pick up on though for a lit of artists....can't understand what a loy of them say.

 

[Ravensmash]

It's abnormal to not picture faces etc. from book characters? I just... read without imagining too much things.

It varies from person to person and mood to mood.

It also greatly depends on the writers skill. Don't get too caught up on it.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I have it pretty bad, but not total. I can picture dim things, they just warp or change a lot; it's very hard to hold a fixed "red square" in my mind, but I can sort of create the idea of my wife smiling, for instance. I also have a terrible long-term memory, which I assume is related somehow.

I do have a strong auditory imagination; I can easily conjure up voices and music, so there's that.

I wonder if ASMR has any linking to this. I know some people can experience it and others cannot. Do people with Aphantasia feel anything from watching an ASMR video? Perhaps things like ASMR, your ability to visualize with the mind's eye, and lucid dreaming are connected.

I get ASMR pretty easily. I also have vivid dreams. Not saying they're not related, but my inability to visualize things while waking doesn't seem to carry over into sleep.

 

[Wiped89]

I can't "see" images in my head, not even really simple ones like shapes. Does that mean I have this condition too, or am I misunderstanding what it means to be able to visualise?

It sounds like people are able to close their eyes, think of something and are able to see it in varying amounts of detail. That kind of sounds like a superpower to me.

Yeah you have the condition then. I dont even need to close my eyes, I just picture something in my mind. My girlfriend naked, a scene from a movie I really like, a beautiful place I have been. Or I can make up sexy scenarios in my mind involving people and it's like inventing your own free porn and you're the guy.

When I read a book it's like watching TV because every moment plays out in my mind with fully formed characters and scenes. Sometimes I pause a few moments on a page to better imagine the place. Sometimes I use real people I know in place of the characters to visualise quicker.

I read the Harry Potter books as a child before the films came out and sadly, since the films came out I cant remember how the characters used to look in my head

 

[TetraGenesis]

Hmm, I may have those. I can imagine things, but they are are feelings as to a straight up image.

So people who can see pictures, do you literally see a picture in your mind?

See, I don't think "pictures" goes far enough.

With my eyes open, I can hear and visualize someone I know saying and doing things I've never heard them say or seen them do. I can construct moving images and sound of, say, Matthew McConaughey in Dazed in Confused (with the hair and stache) in a chicken costume from the neck down, break dancing while reciting Shakespeare (words I've never heard him say). That's the capability of visualizing in imagination.

It very hard for me to conceptualize the experience of not thinking like that.

I guess one good thing would be the ability to forget horrific or traumatizing imagery like real life scenes of death or gore. Not to say that the reality of the trauma doesn't still exist, but to keep the flashing images from assaulting your mind for long after would be a relief at least.

I can't visualize either. I thought people were lying for the longest time about seeing stuff in their minds.

It hasn't affected my creativity, though. I write and paint and do all sorts of things, and in fact focusing on creating concrete things helps me.

What is the process of painting like for you? This is fascinating. That you can't workshop the idea in your head before putting it on canvas is an interesting but, I'm sure, rewarding challenge.

I dream, and I’ve even lucid dreamed; but it just feels like I wake up “knowing” that my dream happened. Like I just read a plot summary off wikipedia

I dream and am aware of the fact that I visualize things when I dream, but I certainly can't bring up those images when I am awake though I can remember it in words and concepts.

Okay, this was crazy to think about. It's like you have the capacity to visualize (made evidence by your unconscious mind) but the connection isn't there when you're conscious.

 

[Vital Tundra]

That's absolutely insane. Like I can't see not being able to visualize things in my mind. So there isn't a way to fix it?

 

[kruis]

When people remember a person they know very well, how clear is that mental picture? How real? How long can you look at that mental picture with your inner eye?

When I think of my father for instance, I only get an incredibly short flash of him, and that mental picture is actually a photograph that was taken thirty years ago. That mental picture lasts not even a blink of an eye. It's the same with anybody I try to remember.

 

[Kuro]

That's absolutely insane. Like I can't see not being able to visualize things in my mind. So there isn't a way to fix it?

I think it neurological so probably not. It might have something to do with when the brain was developing. Like my younger brother has this and he took the longest of my siblings and I to learn how to read. He took until like 7 or 8 when we learned around 3 or 4. I don't know if the aphantasia caused it or it was the cause of the aphantasia.

 

[SoldierOfLight]

When I found out about this I tested my ex wife and yeah, she had aphantasia.

Also those who don't have it, we don't even have to close our eyes to visualize it either. Pretty cool.

 

[Walter White Walker]

I'm a little more interested in the music point. Do most people struggle to hear all the instruments and vocals when remembering songs? I can usually "hear" everything and can usually come up with most lyrics if I focus on trying to remember.

When I'm thinking of a song I hear everything, instruments and lyrics included.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

When people remember a person they know very well, how clear is that mental picture? How real? How long can you look at that mental picture with your inner eye?

When I think of my father for instance, I only get an incredibly short flash of him, and that mental picture is actually a photograph that was taken thirty years ago. That mental picture lasts not even a blink of an eye. It's the same with anybody I try to remember.

This is exactly the same for me, too. Though maybe the photograph for me is probably 20-25 years old haha