-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Value of Videogame Stories
- Thread starter Veelk
- Start date
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I would love to honestly and frankly debate the merits of the OPs stance, but I just don't feel that NeoGAF forums are culturally equipped to do so and I'll just get shouted down for being elitist or trolling if I try, because this forum inherently loves videogames, and its like trying to discuss the merits of well written characterisation on a Twilight fansite.
I will say though that if you're trying to convince me of the merits of storytelling in gaming and you're picking titles like Mass Effect 3 or TLOU, you are 100% doing it wrong.
The genuinely good writing in this medium is almost entirely happening in the IF genre.
I will say though that if you're trying to convince me of the merits of storytelling in gaming and you're picking titles like Mass Effect 3 or TLOU, you are 100% doing it wrong.
The genuinely good writing in this medium is almost entirely happening in the IF genre.
stupid question: what's the IF genre?
Personally I love story telling in games, most of my favourite games have great plots or worlds or characters. However I do think there is so much untouched on space. I love games like Metal Gear Solid 2 and 999 which work on the fact they're games and couldn't really be adapted easily, at least not without losing something special.
Basically game stories can take more advantage of the interactive and immersive elements but most stories seem happy with level to cutscene then level to cutscene. Yes most game stories are crap but some are brilliant and unique.
Basically game stories can take more advantage of the interactive and immersive elements but most stories seem happy with level to cutscene then level to cutscene. Yes most game stories are crap but some are brilliant and unique.
And I would love to believe you actually had legitimate counterpoints to make, but given the driveby insult that you'd realize, if you actually read the point I was illustrating, wouldn't even be compatible as a counter to the argument I was presenting, I have serious doubts that you are equipped to make a coherent response myself. So, yes, perhaps it is best if you keep quiet then.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Whats the driveby insult?
There are people who absolutely love Twilight, and get offended if it is implied that Twilight is not actually very well written, just as there are people who love videogames who get equally offended if it is implied that videogames are not particularly well written.
This forum, being what it is, is inherently slanted towards games being 'good'.
I love videogames, I also have played many 'cinematic' titles, but I am also acutely aware that narratively the medium struggles to elevate itself above hackneyed cliche.
Perhaps this is to be expected given the financial concerns that games take a lot of time, money and technical skill to create, but I feel nothing but a sense of pathos when someone (not necessarily you) starts describing hideo kojima as a storytelling genius, or how special the characterisation in TLOU is.
"THis forum loves videogames, so it's pointless to criticize them because it's obviously irrationally biased and will not listen to reason, so why even bring up an argument. Oh, I'm not insulting anyone, just comparing it to one of the most mocked and reviled franchises and looked down upon fans in pop culture."
Your post is full of elitest snobbery bullshit that tries to assert superiority without even providing a reasoning for why "I am doing it 100% wrong." because I use certain examples. Which, FYI, are appropriate to the actual point was I making within the OP that isn't really assailable in the way you seem to think it is.
Either reread the OP and reply seriously, or take your initial advice to yourself and don't clog the thread with elitest bullshit.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Replace Twilight with 50 shades of Grey, or Star Trek, or LOTR, or any other much beloved to a dedicated fanbase genre. That's not an important comparison.
You might very well think Twilight is shit and its writing is to be laughed at, but outside of videogame enthusiasts that is the exact same perspective held about videogames.
I don't know why I possibly thought stating that fact (and it is a fact, for better or for worse) would immediately put people on the defensive and play the "elitist" card.
You are doing it wrong, because you are looking to the most mainstream of mainstream commercially driven titles as your exemplars for narrative within gaming; when is the middle of the road commercially successful examples of a medium the best example in any medium?
EDIT:
Other mediums that are more mature than gaming (and note that I am referring to the medium itself, not the maturity of gamers before I get attacked for stating that) have seperated commercial success from critical success, but we don't even have proper critics of gaming yet. Where is gamings Pauline Kael?
I believe his point in bringing up Mass Effect 3 was to point out that even a video game story that has obvious flaws has value. And I'd also be curious to know why you think TLOU is a 100% wrong example of a decent video game story. It's an opinion to be sure, but one I find rather perplexing.
John Kowalski
Banned
I personally think the problem comes from not knowing how to read or criticize games. All recent mediums had the privilege of being similar enough to an older, more established medium for support. Photography had painting, cinema had theatre and photography to a lesser degree, comics had painting and literature, etc. By now those can be recognized as established institutions, but had they not had the aiding starting points as references they wouldn't have gone very far. The core formal mechanisms of videogames are frankly to novel to be dealt with in the same manner the former are, and i fear it will take far too long for the understanding of those formal mechanisms to be shared and understood.
I mean, i honestly mean no offence, but we're still discussing whether the medium has the capacity for strong narratives. That's some protocriticism if i've ever seen it.
I mean, i honestly mean no offence, but we're still discussing whether the medium has the capacity for strong narratives. That's some protocriticism if i've ever seen it.
Look, you opened your statement with the insinuation that we were too irrationally blind by our biases to even consider a fair attack on whatever it is we liked. You are flat out telling the person they are not capable of reason as an opening statement. Whether it be videogames, twilight, lord of the rings, etc, that is an insulting way to start any conversation. And just so you know, even if that did happen to be true? Something being true doesn't make it any less insulting. It's not a way to get off on the right foot, no matter who your talking to or about what. If I were to reply to an argument proposed by a twilight fan, I would not begin it saying she is too irrational to even understand why she's wrong, so it's not worth talking about. I'd do that whether I thought it was true or not. That's basic manners. But I wouldn't think it either because that's just not being a pretentious douchebag that thinks they can peg individual people by a stereotype of a fandom.
Second, I'm not being defensive because you've given me nothing to defend against. Just saying 'No, you're wrong' is a worthless retort to any argument when it's not followed by an explanation of how it's wrong. You could be arguing against Nazi-ism, and you'd still need more than "It's wrong" to back yourself up. Otherwise, it's not conversation, it's just people shouting at each other in disagreement. It is the same thing to just randomly comment that I'm wrong because it's mainstream. What does it being mainstream have to do with anything? What does the good storytelling of nonmainstream games have to do with the storytelling of mainstream? Is this just hipster logic or what?
This is the third reply you've posted, and the third time I've replied to you specifically. If you don't have a real argument (that is, a point, with reasoning and evidence to back it up) to make in your next post, you won't be getting a fourth reply from me, because this conversation is going no where. Right now, all you seem to be is convinced of your rightness that you can't seem to support in your actual posts.
Edit. Oh. Well. That problem solved itself then.
This is a good point, but it shouldn't really apply to games whose stories are more traditionally told through cinematics or writing, which a good deal of them are.
While there is a lot of value in interactive storytelling and using mechanics as narrative, games that just tell a story seperated from the game aren't necessarily bad, I think. THey're just movies with game features, and while not innovative, I wouldn't necessarily say that's wrong.
That's exactly what I was getting at, yes. Thank you for reading the OP
Bobby_Sullivan
Neo Member
Great post OP. Long as all hell but my laziness did not get the best of me this time lol.
I have to say I agree.
Most people who come to the conclusion that video game stories are not as impactful as those in books and movies fail to grasp the fact that a good video game story is usually conveyed in all of the mechanics it has at it's disposal.
Cutscenes and text are methods used in other mediums and they're great for learning about characters or just progressing the narrative along. Personally, the moments in video games where I find something out for myself is what's truly remarkable.
For instance, in Gone Home you rifle through people's things and you learn all bout their lives and personalities. You learn what kind of music they liked, what video games they played, who they were friends with at school, etc. The characterization is conveyed interactively and I think that's awesome.
I have to say I agree.
Most people who come to the conclusion that video game stories are not as impactful as those in books and movies fail to grasp the fact that a good video game story is usually conveyed in all of the mechanics it has at it's disposal.
Cutscenes and text are methods used in other mediums and they're great for learning about characters or just progressing the narrative along. Personally, the moments in video games where I find something out for myself is what's truly remarkable.
For instance, in Gone Home you rifle through people's things and you learn all bout their lives and personalities. You learn what kind of music they liked, what video games they played, who they were friends with at school, etc. The characterization is conveyed interactively and I think that's awesome.
Fbh
Member
Well I'll just answer with the same idea of my post in that other thread.
In my opinion, for a videogame story to be enjoyable it doesn't necessarily have to be good in the same way the story of a movie or book can be good.
Videogames are interactive and therefore a story that would be nothing special compared to a movie/book can add A LOT in terms of context, setting and characters.
Let's use Chrono Trigger as an example which, btw, is one of my favorite games of all time.
One of the reasons I love this game so much is the story, yet I would fully admit that if you simply read the scrip it's hard to argue that it's lightyears behind the best of what movie/books/Tv shows have to offer.... but it's still a fundamental part of the experience, it's what turns a solid JRPG into a game that has stayed with me for over 15 years:
Thx to the story:
-I wasn't just playing with Warrior 1, Warrior 2 and Mage 1. It was a wonderful cast of characters that I still remember all these years later. Frog, the noble knight with a tragic past and desire for revenge, Lucca the crazy science freak, Ayla the agressive muscle head cave woman, etc. And IMO, having them made the experience all the more memorable
- It gave context and meaning to the stuff I was doing. I wasn't just beating Dungeon 23 because "that's the dungeon I have to beat now", I was actually traveling back to the past to get a rare metal I needed to reforge a legendary weapon. And IMO, that made the experience all the more memorable
- It gave context and meaning to the battles I was fighting. I wasn't just fighting a random boss at the end of a dungeon, I was fighting Magus, the Demon King. I knew about him from past encounters and what I had been told by the people of the world, I knew about the past he had with Frog, I knew all I had done hours before just to reach this point. I wasn't just fighting "boss N10" I was fighting a character. And IMO, having that made the encounter, and the whole experience all the more memorable.
While on paper the story was nothing special, it went a long way in making Chrono Trigger one of my favorite games of all time. It's what made me care about the characters I was playing with, it's what combined dungeon 1,2,3,etc and boss 1,2,3,etc and turned it into an adventure. And I would hate a version of the game with "better gameplay" but taking away all the story elements.
It's, honestly, the reason I sometimes have a bit of trouble enjoying some indie games. Yeah the gameplay is solid, but I don't want to just play a bunch of radom, unrelated levels. I want to be playing in a world, with it's own characters and stories. It's why I can fully a gree that something like Pix the Cat is a fun game, but in the end I'll have a better time playing something like transistor or Broken Age
In my opinion, for a videogame story to be enjoyable it doesn't necessarily have to be good in the same way the story of a movie or book can be good.
Videogames are interactive and therefore a story that would be nothing special compared to a movie/book can add A LOT in terms of context, setting and characters.
Let's use Chrono Trigger as an example which, btw, is one of my favorite games of all time.
One of the reasons I love this game so much is the story, yet I would fully admit that if you simply read the scrip it's hard to argue that it's lightyears behind the best of what movie/books/Tv shows have to offer.... but it's still a fundamental part of the experience, it's what turns a solid JRPG into a game that has stayed with me for over 15 years:
Thx to the story:
-I wasn't just playing with Warrior 1, Warrior 2 and Mage 1. It was a wonderful cast of characters that I still remember all these years later. Frog, the noble knight with a tragic past and desire for revenge, Lucca the crazy science freak, Ayla the agressive muscle head cave woman, etc. And IMO, having them made the experience all the more memorable
- It gave context and meaning to the stuff I was doing. I wasn't just beating Dungeon 23 because "that's the dungeon I have to beat now", I was actually traveling back to the past to get a rare metal I needed to reforge a legendary weapon. And IMO, that made the experience all the more memorable
- It gave context and meaning to the battles I was fighting. I wasn't just fighting a random boss at the end of a dungeon, I was fighting Magus, the Demon King. I knew about him from past encounters and what I had been told by the people of the world, I knew about the past he had with Frog, I knew all I had done hours before just to reach this point. I wasn't just fighting "boss N10" I was fighting a character. And IMO, having that made the encounter, and the whole experience all the more memorable.
While on paper the story was nothing special, it went a long way in making Chrono Trigger one of my favorite games of all time. It's what made me care about the characters I was playing with, it's what combined dungeon 1,2,3,etc and boss 1,2,3,etc and turned it into an adventure. And I would hate a version of the game with "better gameplay" but taking away all the story elements.
It's, honestly, the reason I sometimes have a bit of trouble enjoying some indie games. Yeah the gameplay is solid, but I don't want to just play a bunch of radom, unrelated levels. I want to be playing in a world, with it's own characters and stories. It's why I can fully a gree that something like Pix the Cat is a fun game, but in the end I'll have a better time playing something like transistor or Broken Age
John Kowalski
Banned
Well, hmm, i guess, but stuff like Antichamber and Hotline Miami leave a very strong lust for mechanically enhanced narratives, you know? Not that i think stories told through cutscenes or straight up text dumps like a lot of old CRPGs are inherently less worthy, they are just as valid as any other kind of story telling, but in the context of people not thinking games have good stories those examples can be easily seen as evidence that games have to use some other medium in conjunction with itself to produce narratives that it could not by itself. But then again, one struggles to define what exactly makes a game less of a game in the first place.
Coupled with that, i feel there is a very strong appreciation for "system purity", as it were, a kind of pseudo nostalgic desire for strong yet conservative gameplay. It's a natural response to contemporary games whose gameplay systems meld together in undiscerning ways, designed towards emergent gameplay born not out of simplicity but complexity. But it also prevents us from dealing with this new found complexity which, honestly, isn't going away any time soon. And developers are learning how to do it far, far quicker than we spectators are learning how to appreciate it.
All games have the potential for narrative, and the developer is free to use whichever tools it wants to use, be them interactive or not. In a way i feel like trying to find what is good and what is bad is inevitably more harmful than not. Games are doing all kinds of interesting things and trying to categorize rather than analyse only serves to pinhole and limit the potential of their intelligence. Honestly who gives a shit about people who think stories are meaningless, developers are still doing new and incredible things with story regardless!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The OP is spot on...in the context of all of the examples he raises. When I tend to say that I find game stories forgettable or disposable its usually because the story either isn't even trying to be meaningful on any thematic or emotional level (beyond the most cursory of ways) or else the execution thereof is uninteresting or uninspired.
Games just aren't thought of as a storytelling medium yet. They absolutely can be and I fully believe that thats where the future lies, but we are still very much at the point where its a bonus if a game's story tries to engage with us on a level deeper then a framework of propulsive tissue to bring us between segments
Stories are defined by their themes. And a lot of games are pretty empty.
Games just aren't thought of as a storytelling medium yet. They absolutely can be and I fully believe that thats where the future lies, but we are still very much at the point where its a bonus if a game's story tries to engage with us on a level deeper then a framework of propulsive tissue to bring us between segments
Stories are defined by their themes. And a lot of games are pretty empty.
Well, the question comes down to "Are games complete experiences if you remove the story". And when I think of that question, would it be equivelent to ask if a movie can be complete without music? And....certainly it can, yeah. Both music and video can be separated and enjoyed on their own. Sometimes one can even be made more effective with a seperation. But at the same time, other times it can result in this this.
Sure, you can seperate elements making up a game, but doing so makes it a lesser whole, even if it's a whole onto itself, unless it doesn't. It depends on the game, as always.
But I do agree that gameplay is a new form of storytelling, so I think when we see stories told effectively through gameplay, it is all the more impressive because it is something truly innovative. As time goes on and we gain further mastery of gameplay mechanics as narrative tools, we'll see more interesting uses of it. Because right now, I don't think we even notice when gameplay mechanics are used as tools. For example, in the analysis I linked, the game used the switch between Joel and Ellie to provide us a perspective change. We gain greater understanding of Ellie as a character just by how enemies are all of a sudden so much larger and we get a chance to view the actions of Joel from outside of his perspective, providing distance from the PoV we have been using the entire game. It's not as drastic as Anti-chamber, but it is narrative through gameplay. Yet people here have been describing LoU as if it is a traditional cinematic narrative that doesn't use any gameplay mechanics to tell it's story.
So in a way, you're original point was right. We have no good historical methods of analyzing gameplay mechanics as story telling tools, and we have to wait until it becomes more prominent for people to start paying attention.
Great write-up OP. I'm afraid I don't have much to contribute. Just wanted to say well done on an excellent post.
Agreed with both of these. Very well put.
Agreed with both of these. Very well put.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I don't agree with this at all, mainly because I did this. I heard the "You can just watch it on YouTube!" bullcrap and I believed it. So when the game launched, I didn't play it, I watched a YouTube collection of the cinematics.
Then I got a PS4 and eventually I got my hands on TLoUR. Watching it was absolutely nothing like playing it. To even suggest that they're the same or equal in terms of the experience offered is frankly ludicrous. It marries the story with the gameplay. No, not perfectly, but it does it very well. You can understand the plot by watching cinematics, but the emotional weight of the game comes from playing it.
But whatever, this isn't a TLoU thread, and I'm sure people will continue to spew their "you can watch the cutscenes" nonsense.
Stories are extremely important in games, but what I want in a videogame story differs from what I want in a movie or book. I can understand how some people are jaded by marketing branches of big publishers at this point because so much in videogame stories can feel like pandering. This is especially true when some bigger companies feel the urge to play it safe. There used to be much more risk taking when games were cheaper to make.
I personally like videogames that have a strong emphasis on the setting part of stories. Stories that are big on atmosphere and music. Games like Dark Souls, or SoTC, or Gone Home where the story telling is done through passive means rather than direct means are my favorites, although I like a campy/cheesy story like Bayonetta or Resident Evil as well.
I personally like videogames that have a strong emphasis on the setting part of stories. Stories that are big on atmosphere and music. Games like Dark Souls, or SoTC, or Gone Home where the story telling is done through passive means rather than direct means are my favorites, although I like a campy/cheesy story like Bayonetta or Resident Evil as well.
The Last of Us made me want to have a daughter one day as well.
On a more notable example I've had was Persona 4 Golden. That game made me reflect on a lot of stuff in my life and has almost entirely shifted some of my worldviews to the point that it gave me a lot more perspective on what matters to me.
In a video game, the story should be integrated with gameplay. It should be a seamless, interwoven experience. That's how the stories of the industry can, and should, improve.
I enjoy cinematic games too. But I fully admit that when I play them, I separate the story aspect and the game aspect, and depending on which is better, I end up being impatient for the other part even if I enjoy both sides. It can be an enjoyable experience, but I don't think it's the direction video game stories should be heading in.
Unique experiences that can only be achieved in this medium. That is, in my opinion, the ideal.
I enjoy cinematic games too. But I fully admit that when I play them, I separate the story aspect and the game aspect, and depending on which is better, I end up being impatient for the other part even if I enjoy both sides. It can be an enjoyable experience, but I don't think it's the direction video game stories should be heading in.
Unique experiences that can only be achieved in this medium. That is, in my opinion, the ideal.
More_Badass
Member
I loved TLOU, but I find stuff like 80 Days, The Stanley Parable, Papers Please, and Kentucky Route Zero are much more indicative of interesting gaming stories. 80 Days, for its sense of adventure and worldbuilding. Stanley Parable, for the way it played with gaming tropes and subverted player expectations. Papers Please, for its use of gameplay and mechanics to enforce its narrative themes and deliver a mature engrossing story. KR0, for envoking a surreal American folklore atmosphere through its visuals and prose
Even the old freeware game Facade is something I'd consider a classic, with a mature realistic plot (you're invited by a friend for dinner on the night their relationship is at the breaking point) and unique gameplay (instead of narrative choices, the characters react to what you type). What you say and how you react to the couple as they argue, whose side you choose, is the key to whether their relationship is saved or crumbles. Or they could just kick you out for cursing endlessly
More_Badass
Member
Oh, and OP, thanks for making this thread. That other thread was driving me crazy
The number of people posting variations of "if you want story, go read a book" or "games can't have good stories" is really disappointing
I rarely play AAA games, pretty much only play indies, and seeing all the interesting narratives that devs craft is just so exciting and interesting. Here're just a few that I'm excited for:
- Sunset
- The Sun Also Rises
- That Dragon, Cancer
- Elsinore
- Twelve Minutes
The number of people posting variations of "if you want story, go read a book" or "games can't have good stories" is really disappointing
I rarely play AAA games, pretty much only play indies, and seeing all the interesting narratives that devs craft is just so exciting and interesting. Here're just a few that I'm excited for:
- Sunset
- The Sun Also Rises
- That Dragon, Cancer
- Elsinore
- Twelve Minutes
What is the book equivalent of this argument? Writing versus story? How about movies? Cinematography versus screenwriting?
Its silly to say one is more important than the other, because theyre both equally important, and a good game gets both of them right, to varying degrees. OP does a great job of illustrating why this is the case.
Story doesnt have to mean actual script, or narrative, it just has to feel like I occupy a space worth occupying. Worldbuilding, cast, atmosphere, consistency. Whatever.
When I think of all my favorite games they all have personalities, which are achieved by having gameplay AND universes that I enjoy spending time with. "Writing" is just one part of story, but no excuse to dismiss its relevance.
Its silly to say one is more important than the other, because theyre both equally important, and a good game gets both of them right, to varying degrees. OP does a great job of illustrating why this is the case.
Story doesnt have to mean actual script, or narrative, it just has to feel like I occupy a space worth occupying. Worldbuilding, cast, atmosphere, consistency. Whatever.
When I think of all my favorite games they all have personalities, which are achieved by having gameplay AND universes that I enjoy spending time with. "Writing" is just one part of story, but no excuse to dismiss its relevance.
Ive been seeing this too. No one ever told me I could just read a book or see a movie. If i knew i could do that, i wouldn't of wasted years of my life playing games. So, is it amazon i would go to to get Xenogears the movie or would walmart have it? ohh What about persona 4 the book, that shouldnt be too hard to find. Hopefully audible has the audiobook for chrono trigger. I could listen to that while I jog.
/s
Perspective switching (or cross-cutting) is not inherent to games. It's a common technique in film.
So? The perspective switch is gameplay affective. It doesn't have to be unique to games to be a game mechanic. It just has to be adapted into one.
Well, if all games are doing is to tell stories using techniques developed in other mediums then they're not contributing anything to our understanding of the narrative beyond what we already have available. We may as well be watching movies.
I think if you want to talk about the value of videogame stories you shouldn't focus on what existing story-telling devices can be transferred into the medium of games. Rather you should be asking what are the new ways in which this medium of interaction can allow us to experience a narrative.
You're thinking about it wrong. First off, even the 1 to 1 transfer of a technique used in other mediums is a valauble part of the experience. Music can be used the same way in games as it is in films, but that doesn't take away from it's power in games. Demanding you ignore those vital parts of the game experience simply because they can also be used in another medium in similar ways is pointlessly limiting, because the reason they are in that other medium in the first place is because they bring something of value. If you can use that, you should.
However, perspective switching isn't a 1 to 1 technique transfer here. It literally affects and changes gameplay. The only way you can argue it doesn't is if you are arguing that following a protagonist in a film is identical to following a protagonist in a game, which it isn't due to the fact that you control that protagonist to some extent. By changing the perspective, you change the controls. You can the controls, you change the interaction. You change the gameplay. That's not what happens in films for obvious reasons. So it must be defined as a gameplay mechanic or design, and it does fit what your asking of interactive media telling a story.
eot
Banned
Games can get better in terms of writing. I hope they do! I just think they aren't, at least at a decent pace. This summer it'll be 15 years since Deus Ex came out. Fifteen! We can't keep saying it's a young medium. Deus Ex's narrative elements are still better than most games today, and it handled one of its minor themes (transhumanism) much better than Human Revolution did a decade later and that game was explicitly about transhumanism.
Witcher 2's bifurcated narrative is fantastic, it's something I want to see more of. But I don't expect I will. As for other mediums, of course they aren't automatically better, but I could spend an hour reading every day and not run out of great books before I die. That's the difference. Ultimately it doesn't matter why that is, if it can change, if it will change etc. If I find a game with a good story, that's fantastic, but if I'm in the mood for a good story I'll have a hard time finding a game to fill that need because they're the exception not the norm. That's why I said that if I want a good story I'll go to another medium; they're abundant there.
Finally, there's the gameplay "issue". Gameplay mechanics puts restrictions on what stories can be told. They simply do. That's why games that want to tell stories that aren't about saving the world or the zombie apocalypse, but about something more relatable and human, tend to ditch as much gameplay as they need which usually ends up being most of it. I want those stories, because I've had my fill of genre fiction, but I rarely enjoy those games that ditch gameplay. I don't see the path forward for games. Trust me though, I'll happily be wrong.
The response "I'd rather watch a movie or read a book" always strikes me as being somewhat insulting and ignorant.
The thing I love about this medium in relation to its storytelling is that it really needs you to help tell its story. A film will play independent of you, a book may fall open on the last page. This medium alone needs consistent involvemnt in order to progress. In my opinion there is something amazing about it.
Furthermore, I honestly think this medium can do something non of the others can in terms of effect, it allows for a sense of "mechanical empathy." I instantly think about UC3 and
During that sequence you literally have to push him forward, to be his will. To me that kind of interaction, albeit simple, is more powerful than ranking up combos or empowering your character with new skills.
The thing I love about this medium in relation to its storytelling is that it really needs you to help tell its story. A film will play independent of you, a book may fall open on the last page. This medium alone needs consistent involvemnt in order to progress. In my opinion there is something amazing about it.
Furthermore, I honestly think this medium can do something non of the others can in terms of effect, it allows for a sense of "mechanical empathy." I instantly think about UC3 and
Drake stuck in the desert on the second night.
Dr. Buni
Member
I always found the "game stories suck, just read books/watch movies or shows" statement quite obnoxious. It is true that chances are you will find a great story easily in a book than in a video game, but what if I don't like reading books (I don't)? Also, movies? Movie stories aren't any better than video game stories. The movies with terrific stories are the minority. On top of that, nothing tops experiencing a story in a medium that allows interactivity, like video games. I will take an average story over an amazing story, if I am able to interact with it, without thinking twice. Being part of the story is much more satisfying than just watching or reading it.
One of my favorite stories in fiction is the one of the Zero Escape series and it wouldn't be half as good, if it were told in any medium other than video games. So yes, I do like stories in video games and want more and more. That is not to say I approve the idea of other aspects of games being sacrificed because of the storylines. Games are still games, so gameplay will always be important. Plus, soundtracks are very important to me, so even if a game have the best story in the world, having a bad soundtrack would definitely hinder my enjoyment, but the point is: Stories are important. Great characters are twice as important.
One of my favorite stories in fiction is the one of the Zero Escape series and it wouldn't be half as good, if it were told in any medium other than video games. So yes, I do like stories in video games and want more and more. That is not to say I approve the idea of other aspects of games being sacrificed because of the storylines. Games are still games, so gameplay will always be important. Plus, soundtracks are very important to me, so even if a game have the best story in the world, having a bad soundtrack would definitely hinder my enjoyment, but the point is: Stories are important. Great characters are twice as important.
I think some of the most interesting things happening in game writing are happening in Interactive Fiction (yes, text adventures). One of the standout games in this genre for me has been Violet. The premise could not be less fantastic: it's a story about a grad student struggling with his/her (iirc, it's up to you) relationships and with writing a thesis.
It's the kind of story that could only happen in games in that how the narrative develops depends (in part anyway) with how you interact with (and what you interact with) in the game. It's witty, it's touching and it's wonderfully written. Check it out.
More_Badass
Member
Have you played Facade? It was the game that opened my eyes to the fact that these experiences can be about more than just action and shooting
I wasn't aware of Facade. It looks neat, I'll have to check it out. Thanks!
I feel part of the problems in games is that devs themselves don't take game stories seriously. There are many examples of games where the story was a really, really low priority in game development. Somebody has made a cool setpiece? Hey, you, the writter, do something so it works in the game. Have you seen this level? Hey, do something to shoehorn it into our game. And the list goes on...
One example of this was Tomb Raider 2013. I think the writter talked about it on an interview.
Game writting will be better when its an active part of game development. As long as it's an isolated thing or the element people always change and deform in order to make things works we won't get there (I understand it's cheaper to change the story).
The two most important tools to be there would be approaching the development enviroment to writters (they should be part of the team, not a one game contract or outsourced) and at the same time writters should know more about game development, so they can at least understand the problems the team could face while adapting the script to the medium.
People praise The Last of Us. And Neil Druckmann's wrote TLOU script. Looking at his career he's been a programmer, a designer, a writter and a creative director.
He understands game development quite well. And due to his knowledge about games development he was able to create a more inmersive experience, where the game and its story didn't feel disconnected.
One example of this was Tomb Raider 2013. I think the writter talked about it on an interview.
Game writting will be better when its an active part of game development. As long as it's an isolated thing or the element people always change and deform in order to make things works we won't get there (I understand it's cheaper to change the story).
The two most important tools to be there would be approaching the development enviroment to writters (they should be part of the team, not a one game contract or outsourced) and at the same time writters should know more about game development, so they can at least understand the problems the team could face while adapting the script to the medium.
People praise The Last of Us. And Neil Druckmann's wrote TLOU script. Looking at his career he's been a programmer, a designer, a writter and a creative director.
He understands game development quite well. And due to his knowledge about games development he was able to create a more inmersive experience, where the game and its story didn't feel disconnected.
It's just like going to the movies for me. Sometimes I am there just for the spectacle (gameplay). Sometimes I am there for a good story (interactive one for games). Ideally I want both. But just like the movies I can deal with one or the other. There are examples of games that are lacking in each area but are still great games.
Great story forettable gameplay :Walking Dead Season 1
Great gameplay shit story: Destiny
Great story forettable gameplay :Walking Dead Season 1
Great gameplay shit story: Destiny