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[kmfdmpig]

They chose to eschew SD cards which are both faster and cheaper. That's on them. Consumers might still choose to buy a Vita, but should not be running damage control for Sony's poor decisions which are ultimately anti-consumer.

There are no advantages of Vita memory cards over Micro SD cards. The prices 3-5 times higher, the speeds are much lower, and they're harder to find.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-how-fast-are-vita-memory-cards

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Why not?

Cause it's an unnecessary expense for the consumer when they can easily allow SD cards which are much cheaper.

 

[Somnid]

Okay, suppose we a priori had no reason to believe the Vita memory card price is too high. Let's see if this strategy has worked for Sony...

Personally, I have not taken the $20 Playstation TV I bought out of its box because I haven't felt like paying the upfront cost for a memory card instead of using the half-dozen SD cards I have in my house. Oh well, I guess I'm missing out on... uh...?

Ditto. It would cost be twice as much as the actual system to put a usable amount of memory into it.

At least the PSP has micro SD card adaptors which saved me a ton and memory stick wasn't even as bad.

 

[Lady Siara]

You're defending the pricing of external proprietary memory cards by comparing them to markups on internal memory from a premium mobile phone?

Then you assume that the console was being sold at a large loss and the proprietary memory that they spent time and money manufacturing was cheaper (for them and us) than using an industry standard?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're trying to say because this is quite confusing. Certainly a strange stance and even stranger evidence if I'm understanding correctly.

 

[SephLuis]

Did you read the OP, if they offered SD cards - the hardware RRP price would probably most likely go up. The Vita system is probably cheaper because of the memory cards, because Sony knew that if they priced the system $50 higher then it would get a lot less sales. They saved you money.

Actually, I don't think they saved him any money. Even worse, they put themselves in a bad situation with their customers and probably made them spend more.

Let's say that the Vita did came out $50 more (costing $300) and used SD Cards. Going to use the following numbers:

SD Card prices:

8gb: $6
16gb: $9
32gb: $21
64gb: $31

Vita + 8GB SD Card: $306
Vita + 16GB SD Card: $309
Vita + 32GB SD Card: $321
Vita + 64GB SD Card: $331

Those would be launch prices. Let's compare with your current prices:

Now here are the Vita Memory Card Prices I got from Amazon.

8GB: $28
16GB: $42
32GB: $58
64GB: $107

The price of the Vita on Amazon is $153. If you were to buy the system together with a memory card just like an iphone the costs would be -

8GB: $181
16GB: $195 (7% more than the Vita system + 8GB card)
32GB: $211 (16% more)
64GB: $260 (43% more)

Difference:

8GB: $306 - $181 = $125
16GB: $309 - $195 = $114
32GB: $321 - $211 = $110
64GB: $331 - $260 = $71
128GB: Tears

And consider that I am using the Vita price at launch and comparing with your numbers that use the current Vita price. Today Vita is $153 if compared to the $250 he launched, which is a 38,8% price drop. Applying the same drop, the $300 SD Card Vita would be around $183,6 today, $116,40 less from launch. Let's apply this to the difference before:

8GB: $306 - $181 = $125 - $116,40 = $8,6
16GB: $309 - $195 = $114 - $116,40 = -$2,4
32GB: $321 - $211 = $110 - $116,40 = -$6,4
64GB: $331 - $260 = $71 - $116,40 = -$45,4


So outside of the 8GB range, they didn't helped anyone save any money. That is considering that a person even needs to buy a SD Card, that those prices are the standard, not considering other discounts, etc.

I love the Vita, but the memory card situation was Sony was to over complicating things where it wasn't necessary. My theory is that they wanted to use the proprietary format to avoid piracy and hacking for the longest time possible. Problem is, it cost them and us a lot.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Did you read the OP, if they offered SD cards - the hardware RRP price would probably most likely go up. The Vita system is probably cheaper because of the memory cards, because Sony knew that if they priced the system $50 higher then it would get a lot less sales. They saved you money.

Considering how the vita has sold over all I doubt the impact on its initial price would have mattered much in the long run and vita's would still probably be selling for the current price, but I would be able to buy memory for cheap.

I don't think they saved me money, I think they're just ensuring that people who bought vitas will still need to buy their hardware to keep drip feeding them money.

 

[luminous]

Yeah no matter how you spin it having to fork out nearly $100 for a 64gb memory card in the current times will always sound super unreasonable. First time I actually hear someone saying otherwise

 

[shotgunbob04]

I just threw up in my mouth a bit reading the OP.

The decision to go with a proprietary format for memory cards for the Vita was unnecessary and artificially inflated the cost of owning a Vita. To this day Vita memory cards are sickeningly expensive, staying pretty close to their original prices while the actual Vita models' prices continue to drop.

It was a stupid decision that still to this day makes it difficult for people to really consider buying a Vita. Which is a shame because there are some great games that many will never get to enjoy.

 

[Kyoufu]

As someone who was extremely excited about Vita before it launched, I find the main reason why I never invested time and money into the system was/is because of overpriced proprietary memory cards.

It's BS and will always be BS. Even Nintendo supports standard SD cards.

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

Love my Vita but no, it isn't unfair. They are super expensive.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Defend it all you want, there's no real reason they shouldn't be lowering the prices of these memory cards by now since the demand for Vita has cooled other than they're trying to squeeze every dollar they can get.

 

[linnu5]

If only Vita had one of these...

This saved my PSP.

 

[HerpDerpstreit]

Best Buy currently has a Sony Micro SD Class 10 32gb card on sale for $11.99. The most expensive 32gb micro SD is $24.99. $3 less than the cheapest 8gb Vita card.

No excuse for this. The Vita was DOA due to this choice. Great hardware, I own a OLED model and love it for what it is but Sony dun fucked up with the choice of proprietary cards and the prices.

 

[udivision]

I always assumed the Memory Card prices were the sacrifice they needed to be able to release the Vita at $250, which was the same price as the 3DS.

 

[breakfuss]

You see this phrase parroted a lot on GAF, but truly...there is a defense force for everything. Gtfo with this specious argument. Yeah and college textbooks are only so expensive because universities are trying to make up the costs of "undercharging" for the courses. Smh. Vita memory prices are prohibitive beyond comprehension. It's shameful.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

If they let you use SD Cards, then you would have to pay more for the Vita hardware. Sony have to make their money back in some way.

I'm just arguing the fact that there's a lower entry point for Vitas because of the memory card prices.

What evidence is there that the jacked up memory cards were to offset losses on the Vita? Why hasn't there been much in the way of price drops on the memory with the reduction of costs on the hardware? I mean besides the fact that it's the only thing that uses them.

You cray.

I like the Vita but don't even try to argue that a 64GB micro SD card being $100 is normal.

And the 32GB card was at that price on launch.

If only Vita had one of these...

This saved my PSP.

If only the Vita memory cards were bigger.

 

[Jimrpg]

Nintendo seems to do all right and they allow SD cards. I'm going to go ahead and partially blame the failure of the Vita on having very expensive memory combined with being an already more expensive system.

You don't make any margin on $0 from lost sales.

I believe the 3DS has a higher margin given the tech, and the RRP.

I've had a vita on my checkout on playasia for months and always decide not to buy when I see the price of those memory cards.. not paying no 90+ for a mem card.

I totally get it, it seems expensive.

Maybe go with the 32gb card which will save you some dollars.

It's not just Gaf, it's the entire marketplace that generally seemed to say it's a bad idea. You can do the mental arithmatics all you like, but the fact of the matter is that Sony shouldn't have released such a poorly thought out solution.If it was too tough for Sony to make their own proprietary memory cards, then they should have stuck to using regular ones. If that was not an option than they should of included it as internal storage.

In general consumers aren't worried about what it cost to manufacture the product, they care about the price that it costs them to buy it.

It was probably a mistake to make them look expensive compared to equivalent products on the market.

Your basis for defense is pretty much just unfounded guesswork.

I don't think people give a shit about internal memory or not. Nintendo didn't need to sell 4 versions of each 3DS for different memory sizes. They did the sane thing and went with SD cards.

Furthermore, even if your theory was true, the making up for the cost of the Vita has to stop somewhere. Let's say it's at 16GB for a roughly round 200 bucks. Either way they are taking advantage of their fans by continuingly doubling up the memory price. If a 16 or even 32 gb card subsidized the cost, that 50+ jump to 64 GB still is pretty shitty.

Here's the cost to build for N3DS that I googled - $103 in 2011.

3DS cost

Here's the cost to build for Vita - $150 in 2012.

PS Vita cost

Somebody else can find more accurate prices. There's definitely more room for margin on the 3DS.

Also with the tiered memory card pricing strategy, it allows various points of entry for consumers.

How much better would the Vita have done without the proprietary memory..

Probably better.

But I think the hardware would be more expensive to compensate. Just my take.

Do you have anything to actually back this line of thinking up...?

And either way when you have to buy a memory card regardless I don't see how you've saved money.

You can buy a cheaper memory card. We all want the 128gb iphone, but some of us (like myself) have to settle for the one with less capacity.

Do you have any proof to back that up? Sony would make extra from additional PSN digital sales since consumers can buy and fit more games.

They probably do, I think the Indie games on the Vita store are too expensive especially in Australia. Compared to the same games on the Steam store.

What you are saying doesn't make a fraction of sense; it is an interesting theory, but it's just plain wrong.

3DS and PSVita launch prices were comparable not because PSVita was purposefully made cheaper, it's because 3DS had an expensive stereoscopic glasses-free screen.

High prices for PSVita memory cards were essentially "piracy taxes" which Sony forced after PSP's rampant piracy. Even then, it was an awful decision, especially considering that Nintendo, with DS and Wii being hacked beyond believe, still uses SD cards.

The 3DS had margin in the hardware. Here's an article from Destructoid saying Nintendo are no longer selling the 3DS at a loss and generally prefer not to sell hardware for a loss.

Here's a Neogaf thread saying Sony are selling the Vita at a loss.

 

[Psamtik. Death's Demise]

Memory card pricing is the only thing that kept me from buying a Vita, and it's a shame.

 

[Orca]

I have a 64GB card. But I could have bought a 32GB and been perfectly happy.

Yes a 32GB card is still expensive if you compare it to SD Cards, but if they are making a margin on the hardware, they have to make the money back somewhere, and they may as well make their profits on people who are willing to pay more.

Imagine how many more games they'd have sold if people could afford storage to put them on.

 

[emb]

Because Apple gouges customers on storage, it's unfair to criticize Sony for doing it? I can't say I agree.

I will say though, that it hasn't been a big problem for me since I'm almost all physical on games. Got an 8 gig or something card at launch, proceeded to not worry about it to this very day. Small-ish one time cost. Only bother has been needing to switch the card out to Vita TV, would have been more convenient if I could have just popped in a spare SD card.

 

[Phu]

I don't even think Sony execs would defend Vita memory card as much as OP.

 

[KennyL]

Op and defenders are baffling me why you doing this to me I just wanna relax after work

 

[DecoReturns]

I've bought my vita, have been using the same 16gb memory card It came with. It's a pain to have to manage my games but there's no way I'm spending money on a memory when I could be buying a SD card that would work in multiple places.

 

[MikeE21286]

I would say the Vita probably didn't have a large chance at success regardless of memory cards. It was an underdog when it was released. A dedicated handheld in 2012 was unfortunately a niche player given the mobile space. The fact that it had over priced memory cards didn't help any. It's at probably what, around 15 million in total hardware sales? Maybe it would have sold 25-30 million with better memory card pricing? I mean the ceiling wasn't that high.

Another thing too it is the PSP also had this issue early on its life, but it relied entirely on physical media early on, and it wasn't until the last breaths of its existence that system really got any traction with digital games. And by that time the prices on the memory cards for the system had come down to earth or alternative solutions had been devised.

 

[WickedLaharl]

Op and defenders are baffling me why you doing this to me I just wanna relax after work

I have no idea why anyone in the consumers position would defend Sony on this one.

 

[Paskil]

I bought a Vita at launch and say the price was shit. Lumines was there to ease the pain, but the cost of a 32GB card at that time was and still is ridiculous.

 

[Yukinari]

I don't even think Sony execs would defend Vita memory card as much as OP.

The OP is actually Shawn Layden.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

I can't count how many times I passed a vita PSN flash sale because I couldn't fit anymore on my 16 GB card without paying even more to double up on size at the cheapest.

 

[Jimrpg]

Actually, I don't think they saved him any money. Even worse, they put themselves in a bad situation with their customers and probably made them spend more.

Let's say that the Vita did came out $50 more (costing $300) and used SD Cards. Going to use the following numbers:




Vita + 8GB SD Card: $306
Vita + 16GB SD Card: $309
Vita + 32GB SD Card: $321
Vita + 64GB SD Card: $331

Those would be launch prices. Let's compare with your current prices:



Difference:

8GB: $306 - $181 = $125
16GB: $309 - $195 = $114
32GB: $321 - $211 = $110
64GB: $331 - $260 = $71
128GB: Tears

And consider that I am using the Vita price at launch and comparing with your numbers that use the current Vita price. Today Vita is $153 if compared to the $250 he launched, which is a 38,8% price drop. Applying the same drop, the $300 SD Card Vita would be around $183,6 today, $116,40 less from launch. Let's apply this to the difference before:

8GB: $306 - $181 = $125 - $116,40 = $8,6
16GB: $309 - $195 = $114 - $116,40 = -$2,4
32GB: $321 - $211 = $110 - $116,40 = -$6,4
64GB: $331 - $260 = $71 - $116,40 = -$45,4


So outside of the 8GB range, they didn't helped anyone save any money. That is considering that a person even needs to buy a SD Card, that those prices are the standard, not considering other discounts, etc.

I love the Vita, but the memory card situation was Sony was to over complicating things where it wasn't necessary. My theory is that they wanted to use the proprietary format to avoid piracy and hacking for the longest time possible. Problem is, it cost them and us a lot.

That's a fair comparison and over time an SD Card version of the Vita would be better for consumers. That's why I was saying they screwed up, but that at least we can 'understand' where they were coming from with the vita memory card strategy. I don't think its that bad. I don't think its because Sony wanted to force users to only buy their memory. I think they simply did it to lower the price of the hardware to make the entry price more appealing. If people want to argue 'bait and switch' over the total price of the system including memory I can see that, but at the same time they can just buy the lower priced memory.

I was simply looking at it from a accessibility point of view, where the varied price range and lower entry point allowed more people to purchase the system.

Anyways I've said the same point enough now but am looking forward to other people's responses. Is there anyone else that agrees with me on this?

 

[themoose5]

Sony really messed up with proprietary card for the Vita. With such a strong competitor in the same format in MicroSD people are/were really turned off by unnecessary proprietary technology.

It would be one thing if they made a faster or better SD specifically for the Vita but they didn't; there really isn't much of a difference between the two with the Vita cards even being a little worse. Less performance and high cost is not a recipe for success.

Beyond just the technology standpoint having needlessly expensive proprietary parts that function as a hidden cost doesn't instill confidence in consumers that Sony has their interests at heart.

 

[hodayathink]

I mean, I'm sure it contributed in a knock on fashion.

I never could whole-heartedly recommend the Vita to a casual friend simply because of the cost of entry, which includes the memory card by necessity.

The system still had, what, 1 game developed for it by a major Western developer (and that's me calling Media Molecule a major Western dev), had no primary entry in a major franchise to support it (it lost it's biggest franchise in Monster Hunter, and every other major franchise game was a spin-off not handled by the main team [Black Ops: Declassified, Reistance: Burning Skies, Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Killzone: Mercenary, should I go on here?]), and came just at the time where cell phones were coming into their own as portable gaming machines. Not using proprietary memory would not have changed any of those factors, and I consider all of them more important than whether or not I had to pay more for a proprietary memory card.

And for the record, I own a Vita and 32GB memory card that I picked up for $40.

 

[dtcm83]

I can't get on board with this, and I just bought a Vita with a 64GB memory card ($107!). I would have purchased a Vita much earlier if not for the inflated price of the memory card and a general lack of expendable income. There is no reason for the high prices on these cards other than pure profit margin, in my opinion.

And it's not like the high price of the memory cards is to offset any subsidization of the hardware price of a Vita...the Vita costs a lot in today's dollars, and cost much more when it was first released.

Sony pooped the bed with the proprietary memory card strategy for Vita, plain and simple.

 

[clay_ghost]

The system still had, what, 1 game developed for it by a major Western developer (and that's me calling Media Molecule a major Western dev), had no primary entry in a major franchise to support it (it lost it's biggest franchise in Monster Hunter, and every other major franchise game was a spin-off not handled by the main team [Black Ops: Declassified, Reistance: Retribution, Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Killzone: Mercenary, should I go on here?]), and came just at the time where cell phones were coming into their own as portable gaming machines. Not using proprietary memory would not have changed any of those factors.

Vita failure is not caused by any one factor but a combination of them. The memory card definitely is one of those.

 

[Jimrpg]

The OP is actually Shawn Layden.

You got me.

 

[Randomizer]

Prices are only going to get worse now that backups and pirate copies are possible.

 

[hodayathink]

Vita failure is not caused by any one factor but a combination of them. The memory card definitely is one of those.

But it's so far down the list that I can't believe how much people actually believe it led to it's failure.

 

[fvng]

Vita would be kicking right now without the memory card blunder getting in the way of user adoption. It's amazing how they got the PS4 so right while dropping the ball with such an amazing piece of hardware

 

[Biske]

Was a stupid movie. I've upgraded the memory cards on my 3DS systems multiple times and bought more games because of it.

I bought one 64 gig Vita card and once it filled up I stopped buying games. Not gonna support that shit.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

If they let you use SD Cards, then you would have to pay more for the Vita hardware. Sony have to make their money back in some way.

I'm just arguing the fact that there's a lower entry point for Vitas because of the memory card prices.

And that low entry point means you can't save games on your system, because most Vita games don't have save memory on the card, until you spend way too much for a memory card.

So the Vita 2000 has 1GB. Great. What do I do if I have to patch things or I want to download free games with PS+? Now all the money I've saved is gone.

 

[b3b0p]

Well, according to this Gamasutra article, the memory cards were chosen to reduce/prevent piracy:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/40413/Sony_Vita_specs_offer_long_term_piracy_protection.php

That was front and center in the early specs of this machine," he said. "We needed to have something that would combat piracy from day one, and that's why the cards that you can purchase for the games are in their own proprietary format.

It's something that we felt was completely necessary to make sure that people could not pirate these games. I mean, it's a custom security solution on each one of these cartridges. That is something that we are confident will protect us from piracy for the long term.

 

[Greddleok]

Proprietary cards are fine if the price is reasonable. Even if they were a little more expensive than SD cards, people wouldn't have minded, and Sony would have got their sweet cash.

In the end though, it's not the memory card that killed the system.

 

[Jimrpg]

And that low entry point means you can't save games on your system, because most Vita games don't have save memory on the card, until you spend way too much for a memory card.

Yep if you get a 4gb or 8gb card, you can't save lots of games on the system, you need to buy retail games. There's less flexibility, but it is cheaper.

 

[CamHostage]

Razor/Razorblade economics is a very common model for game consoles. Basically, it means you make the console itself as cheap as possible (no profit or even selling at a loss) to lock people into your ecosystem and then you make your profit via accessories and software. As a required accessory for the vast majority of users, profit on memory cards would be a definite part of overall profit strategy.

...But not THAT much of a factor. It offset the total price of a Vita (though wasn't the 3G lead SKU packed with a 8GB card?), but they're not going to be selling you razorblades all day long. Between console and PC integration, there are multiple means of "cleaning out the fridge" (though it is frustratingly slow, partly because these premium-priced cards do not have premium-level performance.) Core games still are (or would have still been, had the platform succeeded) delivered in a box to the game slot, and the downloadable game market in 2011 when Vita launched was healthy but still favored smaller games (particularly on handhelds, where I'd say that's still true.)

I don't really buy the argument that Sony expected to sell a handful of these cards to Vita gamers if the system was a blockbuster. One upgrade, maybe two over its lifetime (Sony and it's '10-year lifespan' hopes...), but that's it; not at all like with PS1 where people bought dozens of cards (even with PS2, the card phenomenon had virtually dried up.) A huge portion of Vita owners have and will sustain on the same Memory Card that they bought the system with. Hell, Sony didn't even make the cards easy to remove. (And they never sold Vita card devices on PS3 or PS4, where maybe portable game storage might move some units even though you can hook an extra HDD up to both and offload software; PSTV is the only other device that uses these cards.)

My hypothesis is that Sony never made any money off these 'razorblades.' And I'm not sure they ever expected to. Their choice was for a different reason.

It's the same end result, though. They were in a panic about security, they went with a proprietary solution that I assume they hoped would achieve enough manufacturing volume to have affordable prices, and there was just never enough economics in the limping platform over its lifespan to change course or force a money-losing economic adjustment.

 

[dtcm83]

Proprietary cards are fine if the price is reasonable. Even if they were a little more expensive than SD cards, people wouldn't have minded, and Sony would have got their sweet cash.

In the end though, it's not the memory card that killed the system.

What killed the system? If a PS4 came with a 32GB internal HDD, and the only upgrade options were a 64GB drive for $90, a 128GB for $200, or a 500GB for $900, I'd likely never have purchased a PS4.

I know that's not a 100% fair comparison, but my gripe with the Vita is I felt you had a pay a VERY high premium to get the storage necessary to use the system in a similar fashion to the PS3/PS4: which is to say, build a digital library and store it locally on your device.

 

[MattKeil]

Nothing unfair about criticizing abject greed and terrible decisionmaking. The pricing on the unnecessary proprietary memory cards was and is hilariously inflated. There's no way to justify it in any respect. Just greed doing what greed does.

What killed the system?

A terrible library of ports and crossbuy titles with nothing original to offer beyond the launch window. Eventually the system became a niche delivery system for anime titles, which is a tremendously limited audience in the west. I know GAF loves the Vita and all, but Sony completely fumbled the ball the same way they did with the PSP: Inferior versions of games you can play on their console rather than games built for the system that you can only play on the system. Sony even said they weren't going to make that mistake again and...proceeded to make that exact mistake. The overpriced memory card gouging didn't help, but it's not what killed the system. It never had a chance.

 

[TheSeks]

Now here are the Vita Memory Card Prices I got from Amazon.

8GB: $28
16GB: $42
32GB: $58
64GB: $107

Yo, arbok, I'm really apathetic for you, I'ma let you finish, but:

8GB SD: $5.90
16GB SD: $5.99
32GB SD: $14.95
64GB SD: $29.89

(This is just SanDisk, I could probably find other brands and probably cheaper in retail stores than Amazon)

SD cards had one of the best prices for handheld memory-storage of all time…one of the best prices for handheld memory-storage of all time!

For the price of ONE 8GB SONY CARD, I can get a 64GB SD card. Why wouldn't I say Sony's shitty proprietary memory card system IS expensive?

(I see others have made this point, but it still bears repeating)

Well, according to this Gamasutra article, the memory cards were chosen to reduce/prevent piracy

And instead it killed their handheld dead in the water. #whoops and for all the good it did for what... 4 years, piracy may be coming to the system now anyway. #doublewhoops as soon as someone makes an adapter for microSD cards to get into the system it'll be a #triplewhoops

To give Sony credit, their hardware security that isn't the memory cards stopped a lot of hackers for as long as it has. The memory card is the least of the protections there.

 

[Vitacat]

OP,

I recently bought a 200GB mSD for ~$70. Sandisk, and works a treat.

And you think a 64GB Vita card for ~$107 is fair? Seriously?

 

[LordofPwn]

Proprietary media is anti-consumer and costs everyone more money.

If it's a quality concern most media have speed ratings and classes. While that can be confusing it's certainly better than storage that's over twice the cost as something comparable.

 

[Mushroomer25]

It's 100% justified. Sony got greedy and locked down memory of their system, further guaranteeing that it would never catch on in the market. Multiple times I've been tempted to pick one up, and those damn cards hold me back every time.

 

[Greatest Ever]

The worst OPs are the shills for big companies.