• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Tokyo Xanadu |Import OT| - Can You Xanadu?

ranmafan

Member
Also got the PS4 version last week and popped in it last night to try out. Really does look nice with the bump up in resolution and fps. Hoping to play more this week but they really picked the worst time to release this for me. Trying to get other games done and persona 5 only days away. I'll probably end up putting Tokyo Xanadu aside until after I finish that. But I really like playing this on ps4 now too.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Man, this game is really good! Just unlocked all the mini-games. It's super fun, the dungeon crawling/action is great, the boss fights on hard are intense Ys quality, the quests are fun, good stuff.

Also this PS4 version seems really substantial considering there is a new side-chapter between (I'm assuming) every chapter in the main game, which means a new dungeon + boss fight + extra voiced cutscenes story events & extra character development between every main game chapter. That's more additional non-fluff content that I've seen in almost any directors cut/international re-release yet. Combined with the graphic upgrade, it's pretty bullshit the west isn't getting this PS4 version. Hopefully they port it to PC and localize that version.

But yeah, I'm really surprised how much I'm enjoying Tokyo Xanadu. I was concerned it'd burn me out on Persona before Persona comes out, but now I'm more concerned that P5 might feel kind of a step back in some aspects from Tokyo Xanadu! It's definitely got good competition with this game.

Since Falcom is talking about keeping TX around with Ys & Kiseki, I think I'd prefer if Sen III and beyond Kiseki never has school slice of life stuff again and they leave that as a TX series thing, where each game is half Kiseki school-life quest & NPC stories sim, half Ys x Xanadu game + mini-games and Kiseki/Ys/Falcom jokes & references.
 

Gu4n

Member
the boss fights on hard are intense Ys quality
That makes me wonder whether they adjusted the difficulty in the PS4 version. The Tokyo Xanadu I played on Vita had laughably easy boss fights, even on Hard. Even on Nightmare the average boss posed less of a challenge than bosses in, say, Oath of Felghana on easy.
 

Bebpo

Banned
That makes me wonder whether they adjusted the difficulty in the PS4 version. The Tokyo Xanadu I played on Vita had laughably easy boss fights, even on Hard. Even on Nightmare the average boss posed less of a challenge than bosses in, say, Oath of Felghana on easy.

Well, you die in 2 or 3 hits and the bosses have a ton of HP and usually have fast tracking attacks that you need to keep moving and dodge well. It's definitely tougher in the first few chapters than a good chunk of Ys bosses. Then again Ys has been pretty easy since Origin and even easier since Seven. Oath is the last time Ys was hard.

For closer comparison compared to Nayuta boss fights, Tokyo Xanadu is about 20x tougher. Nayuta bosses only gave a challenge in the last 1/3rd. TX bosses start at about that level so far.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Well, you die in 2 or 3 hits and the bosses have a ton of HP and usually have fast tracking attacks that you need to keep moving and dodge well. It's definitely tougher in the first few chapters than a good chunk of Ys bosses. Then again Ys has been pretty easy since Origin and even easier since Seven. Oath is the last time Ys was hard.

For closer comparison compared to Nayuta boss fights, Tokyo Xanadu is about 20x tougher. Nayuta bosses only gave a challenge in the last 1/3rd. TX bosses start at about that level so far.

But Origin is harder than Oath by a mile
not counting hugo
 

Bebpo

Banned
So yeah, about halfway through now and the game is pretty easy once you get the hang of it (and ex skills) even on elite difficulty. The toughest bosses so far were the first two side story chapter new bosses, but the third one was easy.

Still a really fun game. Haven't blown through an rpg this quickly in a while. It's just super enjoyable in that Falcom when they're good way, pacing is great too. It's like playing Cold Steel if it was paced 5x faster (but less interesting story/world). Can't see the game being longer than 30 hours unless it pulls a Kiseki where the last chapter is half the game length. And I'd be perfectly fine with a tightly paced 30 hour experience if that's the case. Way too much bloat in jrpgs these years.

Definitely weird that the soundtrack actually uses cold steel tracks though :p
Mini-games are simple but numerous & fun. I'm that respect this is Falcom's Ryu Ga Gotoku/Yakuza. Kinda sad Panel de Pom machine isn't playable. Really enjoyed that in Crossbell.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
So I actually had a change to give this a shot at TGS, but it really soured me on the game.
The demo station allowed you to choose a boss fight, so I picked one at random (G. Greed?) and the entire fight consisted of being ran away from and being attacked off screen where I couldn't possibly dodge and thus took enormous combo damage.

I was actually spinning the camera more than I was attacking, and if I locked on, it was pretty much suicide to boss projectiles attacking me from out of vision.

Now Ys largely avoids this problem (minus that one very dumb Archives boss in Celceta), so does TX largely consist of bosses just moving and attacking you out of view as they please? Cause if so my interest in this game just hit rock bottom and smashed through to China.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Do feel that either its a different team than the ys one or they just did not spend as much time, the bosses do feel a lot less polished in design / balance than they ys series.
 

Bebpo

Banned
So I actually had a change to give this a shot at TGS, but it really soured me on the game.
The demo station allowed you to choose a boss fight, so I picked one at random (G. Greed?) and the entire fight consisted of being ran away from and being attacked off screen where I couldn't possibly dodge and thus took enormous combo damage.

I was actually spinning the camera more than I was attacking, and if I locked on, it was pretty much suicide to boss projectiles attacking me from out of vision.

Now Ys largely avoids this problem (minus that one very dumb Archives boss in Celceta), so does TX largely consist of bosses just moving and attacking you out of view as they please? Cause if so my interest in this game just hit rock bottom and smashed through to China.

I've not encountered this at all in the 10 or so bosses I've fought. Like someone told me on the last page, the dodge roll is a trap because it's slow and has recovery frames after. You want to just dash out of the way of things and then counter.

Sometimes I use lock-on, sometimes I don't, but I've never had any camera problems. The only boss so far where I haven't kept the boss in view was one where I had to attack objects in the corners of the arena instead of the boss so I was focused on them and didn't keep the boss in view.

The combat system actually feels very similar to the Ys Seven/Celceta battle system where you're switching party members on the fly to attack enemy weaknesses. Though if I had to wager, TX is probably mostly Nayuta no Kiseki staff.

But yeah, from your impressions it sounds like the usual rpg demo that throws you into a section where you don't know what you're doing and leaves a bad impression of the game. Like I said on the last page, the first couple of bosses were tough and some of their attacks felt cheap, but then I learned how to play and now the game is pretty easy.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Yeah, the side-stories chapters in the PS4 are definitely nice. They also have the hardest bosses. I feel like every side-story boss has a move that hits like 90% of the playing field and does 90% of your HP damage. I was item spamming a bunch of these guys. Bosses can definitely feel Ys at times. There's enough bosses that even if some aren't that good, there's plenty of Ys quality boss fights.

The stages themselves are super easy, but fun and quick and the challenge is more trying to keep a combo running as long as you can. But the bosses are good arpg action.

I'm like 60%ish through the story since I took a break to to play a bunch of P5, and TX's still good, but my main complaint is that the Kiseki Cold Steel 1 formula doesn't work in this game because it doesn't have the Zemuria lore to keep things interesting between the episodic chapter stories. While CS1 is episodic, there are little teasers and bits of lore that get you interested in the larger plots that are moving and the overall world of Zemuria. But in TX, it's just Not-Tokyo (that's also kinda wierd, I mean it's called fucking "Tokyo" Xanadu. Why not just set it in Tokyo like SMT/Persona?) and not only does that mean there's no deep interesting world lore to keep the story interesting between episodes, but because it's also trying to be a more realistic world game, there aren't really colorful dramatic characters that you see in the Kiseki world. They're all more like normal people in school. For instance the hacker kid in TX is essentially Jonah from Crossbell, but Jonah was far more fun, interesting and likeable because he was fantasy character personality, whereas Shinomura is just like a real world smart hacker kid. Fwiw, while Nayuta doesn't have the scope of questing/exploration of TX, and the cast is tiny compared to TX, I thought Nayuta at least had a compelling interesting story that kept you going and paired well with the gameplay stages. If they do a TX2, I'd like the story to be told in a more exciting way like Nayuta but with the larger cast and budget of TX.

The episodic chapter stories are still enjoyable thanks to the kiseki characters and writing, but I'll play a chapter and then not touch the game for a week because there's no compelling larger story. Maybe it'll pull a Kiseki and the final chapter will be all compelling interesting story, but I do think the slow episodic pacing without any sort of a carrot on a stick to look forward to is a bit of a bummer. So far the game is the very definition of an 8/10 comfort gaming arpg.
 

preta

Member
Yeah, the side-stories chapters in the PS4 are definitely nice. They also have the hardest bosses. I feel like every side-story boss has a move that hits like 90% of the playing field and does 90% of your HP damage. I was item spamming a bunch of these guys. Bosses can definitely feel Ys at times. There's enough bosses that even if some aren't that good, there's plenty of Ys quality boss fights.

The stages themselves are super easy, but fun and quick and the challenge is more trying to keep a combo running as long as you can. But the bosses are good arpg action.

I'm like 60%ish through the story since I took a break to to play a bunch of P5, and TX's still good, but my main complaint is that the Kiseki Cold Steel 1 formula doesn't work in this game because it doesn't have the Zemuria lore to keep things interesting between the episodic chapter stories. While CS1 is episodic, there are little teasers and bits of lore that get you interested in the larger plots that are moving and the overall world of Zemuria. But in TX, it's just Not-Tokyo (that's also kinda wierd, I mean it's called fucking "Tokyo" Xanadu. Why not just set it in Tokyo like SMT/Persona?) and not only does that mean there's no deep interesting world lore to keep the story interesting between episodes, but because it's also trying to be a more realistic world game, there aren't really colorful dramatic characters that you see in the Kiseki world. They're all more like normal people in school. For instance the hacker kid in TX is essentially Jonah from Crossbell, but Jonah was far more fun, interesting and likeable because he was fantasy character personality, whereas Shinomura is just like a real world smart hacker kid. Fwiw, while Nayuta doesn't have the scope of questing/exploration of TX, and the cast is tiny compared to TX, I thought Nayuta at least had a compelling interesting story that kept you going and paired well with the gameplay stages. If they do a TX2, I'd like the story to be told in a more exciting way like Nayuta but with the larger cast and budget of TX.

The episodic chapter stories are still enjoyable thanks to the kiseki characters and writing, but I'll play a chapter and then not touch the game for a week because there's no compelling larger story. Maybe it'll pull a Kiseki and the final chapter will be all compelling interesting story, but I do think the slow episodic pacing without any sort of a carrot on a stick to look forward to is a bit of a bummer. So far the game is the very definition of an 8/10 comfort gaming arpg.

How far are you? I felt like things suddenly got much more interesting after a certain scene in chapter 5.
 

preta

Member
Wow. The chapter 6 boss was really creative and fun to fight. And that twist afterward... I hope the game can maintain this level of quality until the end. Considering it didn't really pick up until chapter 5, I'd really hope they were just saving everything for the end. The boss rematch screen shows I've only fought about half of the bosses in both the main and side story, so it seems like there will be quite a few of them coming up soon.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Ok, chapter 5 final boss on whatever the hardest difficulty (I might be one down from that, I need to check) is called is fucking hard. Dodging triple clones bullet shmup spamming and rushing you with AoE spells was fairly insane. I think I blew through most of my cooking items that fight. Gotta go shopping for veggies next chapter so I can cook a bunch more in case there's more fights like that.

Still wasn't feeling the main plot much, in a way the cast is kinda plain like how cold steel would be if there were no adults doing cool stuff and it was just the kinda plain student cast, but the last scene of the chapter was a start. Not having any antagonists was part of what made the main story feel episodic and a little dull. Now that there are villains doing their villian-y plans, hopefully it'll be more interesting.

Regardless even if the story sucked (not saying it does, just saying even if it did), I'd still be enjoying the game because the dungeons & bosses are a lot of fun. Just had a 700+ combo running last dungeon. Was kinda bummed the bonus counter stops at 200 ;_; Still was intense keeping the combo and felt good.

*edit* intermission time! Man, this game is long. I thought it was going to be around 30 hours because it's an arpg, but now I'm thinking 40-50 easy. I'm already around 23 hours at the start of the intermission. This game is definitely going to be as long as Cold Steel 1 (just like 20-30 hours shorter because arpg dungeons go way faster).
 

Bebpo

Banned
Intermission chapter was nice. At first I was like oh great it's time for the Falcom Onsen event. But it ended up being a good chapter with just the right amount of downtime the game needed after all the episodic chapters. Some good character development and that area sure was pretty. Also I appreciated that the little sister bathing event was waaaaaay less creepy than the one in CS2! The graphics/art in this game at 60fps with near perfect IQ looks nice a lot and makes me really excited to see Cold Steel 3 looking like this or hopefully better.

The boss for the intermission was not too bad, but dude hit HARD. He literally one-shot killed Hiragi with a dash attack when she was at 100% HP >__<

Wow. The chapter 6 boss was really creative and fun to fight. And that twist afterward... I hope the game can maintain this level of quality until the end. Considering it didn't really pick up until chapter 5, I'd really hope they were just saving everything for the end. The boss rematch screen shows I've only fought about half of the bosses in both the main and side story, so it seems like there will be quite a few of them coming up soon.

If it's anything like every other Falcom game, the last dungeon will have a lot of bosses. Also I know Falcom's site talks about some HUGE post-game scenario so a bunch of bosses are probably there.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Damn, that side-story dungeon after the intermission was really brutal. Boss was fine, but the enemies in that stage...yikes. Also why are all the masked character outfits really lame in TX compared to Kiseki? At least they have cool voices.
 

preta

Member
Intermission chapter was nice. At first I was like oh great it's time for the Falcom Onsen event. But it ended up being a good chapter with just the right amount of downtime the game needed after all the episodic chapters. Some good character development and that area sure was pretty. Also I appreciated that the little sister bathing event was waaaaaay less creepy than the one in CS2! The graphics/art in this game at 60fps with near perfect IQ looks nice a lot and makes me really excited to see Cold Steel 3 looking like this or hopefully better.

The boss for the intermission was not too bad, but dude hit HARD. He literally one-shot killed Hiragi with a dash attack when she was at 100% HP >__<



If it's anything like every other Falcom game, the last dungeon will have a lot of bosses. Also I know Falcom's site talks about some HUGE post-game scenario so a bunch of bosses are probably there.

I've now finished the final chapter, though I still have the epilogue and After Story left. I have two more bosses left in the main story and I think 4 more in the side story section (which I assume includes the After Story). There were actually no bosses in the final dungeon other than the final boss.
 

Bebpo

Banned
40 hours in or so and 1/3rd through the final chapter and this game has really overstayed it's welcome. It's ridiculously long and slow paced like Cold Steel 1, except the combat's a lot more simple and the story is missing most of the stuff that makes Kiseki good.

I got to the final chapter, doing everything 100%, talking to all the NPCs in town each chapter, doing all the quests, S-ranking all the dungeons, watching all the bonding events with save/reloads. But it just never ends. For the first time in any Falcom game that I can remember for the final chapter I'm literally skipping every cutscene because I.don't.care.at.all about this plot and watching them talk for 3 minutes in a cutscene to explain "ok, we're safe, let's head to the next area" is giving me a headache, so I'm just skipping it all. Also skipping fighting normal enemies in dungeons as much as possible and just speed running the dungeons because I really want all this to be over with already. And then there's epilogue & after-story chapters, but depending on how the final chapter ends I might just call it a day when it's over.

The thing is, the game is fun. The combat is decent enough for an arpg, the dungeons are short and enjoyable and loot is alright, and the boss fights can be fun although they suffer from the same problem as Kiseki has for a while in that towards the end you get enough S-craft type ammo that you can just just go in loaded up and then spam all your best attacks and kill the bosses really quick.

The quests are decently enjoyable in that Cold Steel 1 way of going around helping people with their chores. It has that same feel where over the course of the game you end up helping out most of the NPCs in the world (city in this game) and so you get to know them all and if you've been talking to them each chapter and following their stories it's kind of neat. The characters are a bit boring, but the writing is ok and I don't really dislike any of the main cast. Each character gets their own story and they're all decently 8/10 enjoyable.

The problem is the plot is just not.there. It's like Cold Steel 1's pacing, length and plot except without the field trips to learn/explore the world, without any of the political interesting things going on in the background, and without the promise of exciting things eventually happening that you are used to in Kiseki. The plot in Tokyo Xanadu is "there is a bad portal monster, let's stop it" every.single.chapter and even the end chapter stuff isn't much more than that. It's very boring. I feel like this game, TX, is what happens when Falcom didn't get the right feedback from Cold Steel 1 that the game was pretty boring, even if it was a good game. It's like they got the message "people really liked our extremely slow paced repetitive Cold Steel 1 where almost nothing happens, so we should make all our games like that style!"

And the weird thing about it is that they introduce elements to make the story deeper and more interesting, with multiple factions, masked characters, one bonding event even shows another side of Xanadu that they could (and may still) use for lore. But what's the point of having multiple factions and masked characters when everyone is on the same side and working together to stop the bad portal monster and that's it. How is it that the same people that write Kiseki which is full of warring factions and interesting character drama can't put anything like that here?

Outside of one minor sub-story, there aren't any antagonists, no villains, no bad guys, nothing. It's very hard to run a 40-50 hour rpg plotline with no opposing forces and TX shows it. It's just, not interesting because there's no challenge that these characters have to overcome besides beat the next bigger and stronger bad portal monster. I just find it crazy that Falcom made a game with no bad guys, hell Nayuta no Kiseki is a lot more traditional story with good guys, bad guys and plot twists (also some interesting planetary mysteries with good payoffs) and guess what? It works, and Nayuta has an enjoyable arpg story. It's also like 20 hours.

There's also this feeling throughout the whole Tokyo Xanadu story that it's rated "G" and is for middle school kids. While people make fun of Kiseki a bit for being "hardly anyone ever dies", it's still a fairly PG-13 affair with war and backstabbings and serious dramatic stuff happening each game. TX is so kid-like, and feels like watching a cartoon for little kids. Everything is happy, nothing serious every really happens, it's constantly episodic, there's no really villians, it's just weird how "light" the whole story is. If they were aiming for a little bit older crowd like Kiseki, I think it'd have been more interesting. I mean there's some cool adult characters in the story and if the game was about a middle-aged yakuza boss, a shrine martial arts grandpa, a mysterious antique dealer, and a head of a conglomerate, it'd been 100x more interesting than these light novel high school kids, but that's never gonna happen. At least in Kiseki you get the adults in your party eventually -_-

I think in the end it's really difficult to justify any arpg being over 30 hours. You either need a really good lengthy story you're telling, fantastically deep combat, or a big interesting world to explore with good loot rewards. If Tokyo Xanadu had been 20-30 hours, I think it'd be a great arpg even if the story is incredibly simple, because the character tales, the city & its npcs and the combat and dungeon crawling is fun for a few dozen hours. But at more like 50 hours, it really overstays it's welcome and eventually becomes a pretty boring game, especially when none of the plot lures payoff as anything interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about looking forward to Ys8 PS4 now. I've heard it's very long, so the story or world exploration better be worth it.
 

preta

Member
40 hours in or so and 1/3rd through the final chapter and this game has really overstayed it's welcome. It's ridiculously long and slow paced like Cold Steel 1, except the combat's a lot more simple and the story is missing most of the stuff that makes Kiseki good.

I got to the final chapter, doing everything 100%, talking to all the NPCs in town each chapter, doing all the quests, S-ranking all the dungeons, watching all the bonding events with save/reloads. But it just never ends. For the first time in any Falcom game that I can remember for the final chapter I'm literally skipping every cutscene because I.don't.care.at.all about this plot and watching them talk for 3 minutes in a cutscene to explain "ok, we're safe, let's head to the next area" is giving me a headache, so I'm just skipping it all. Also skipping fighting normal enemies in dungeons as much as possible and just speed running the dungeons because I really want all this to be over with already. And then there's epilogue & after-story chapters, but depending on how the final chapter ends I might just call it a day when it's over.

The thing is, the game is fun. The combat is decent enough for an arpg, the dungeons are short and enjoyable and loot is alright, and the boss fights can be fun although they suffer from the same problem as Kiseki has for a while in that towards the end you get enough S-craft type ammo that you can just just go in loaded up and then spam all your best attacks and kill the bosses really quick.

The quests are decently enjoyable in that Cold Steel 1 way of going around helping people with their chores. It has that same feel where over the course of the game you end up helping out most of the NPCs in the world (city in this game) and so you get to know them all and if you've been talking to them each chapter and following their stories it's kind of neat. The characters are a bit boring, but the writing is ok and I don't really dislike any of the main cast. Each character gets their own story and they're all decently 8/10 enjoyable.

The problem is the plot is just not.there. It's like Cold Steel 1's pacing, length and plot except without the field trips to learn/explore the world, without any of the political interesting things going on in the background, and without the promise of exciting things eventually happening that you are used to in Kiseki. The plot in Tokyo Xanadu is "there is a bad portal monster, let's stop it" every.single.chapter and even the end chapter stuff isn't much more than that. It's very boring.

And the weird thing about it is that they introduce elements to make the story deeper and more interesting, with multiple factions, masked characters, one bonding event even shows another side of Xanadu that they could (and may still) use for lore. But what's the point of having multiple factions and masked characters when everyone is on the same side and working together to stop the bad portal monster and that's it. How is it that the same people that write Kiseki which is full of warring factions and interesting character drama can't put anything like that here?

Outside of one minor sub-story, there aren't any antagonists, no villains, no bad guys, nothing. It's very hard to run a 40-50 hour rpg plotline with no opposing forces and TX shows it. It's just, not interesting because there's no challenge that these characters have to overcome besides beat the next bigger and stronger bad portal monster. I just find it crazy that Falcom made a game with no bad guys, hell Nayuta no Kiseki is a lot more traditional story with good guys, bad guys and plot twists (also some interesting planetary mysteries with good payoffs) and guess what? It works, and Nayuta has an enjoyable arpg story. It's also like 20 hours.

There's also this feeling throughout the whole Tokyo Xanadu story that it's rated "G" and is for middle school kids. While people make fun of Kiseki a bit for being "hardly anyone ever dies", it's still a fairly PG-13 affair with war and backstabbings and serious dramatic stuff happening each game. TX is so kid-like, and feels like watching a cartoon for little kids. Everything is happy, nothing serious every really happens, it's constantly episodic, there's no really villians, it's just weird how "light" the whole story is. If they were aiming for a little bit older crowd like Kiseki, I think it'd have been more interesting. I mean there's some cool adult characters in the story and if the game was about a middle-aged yakuza boss, a shrine martial arts grandpa, a mysteries antique dealer, and a head of a conglomerate, it's been 100x more interesting than these light novel high school kids, but that's never gonna happen. At least in Kiseki you get the adults in your party eventually -_-

I think in the end it's really difficult to justify any arpg being over 30 hours. You either need a really good lengthy story you're telling, fantastically deep combat, or a big interesting world to explore with good loot rewards. If Tokyo Xanadu had been 20-30 hours, I think it'd be a great arpg even if the story is incredibly simple, because the character tales, the city & its npcs and the combat and dungeon crawling is fun for a few dozen hours. But at more like 50 hours, it really overstays it's welcome and eventually becomes a pretty boring game, especially when none of the plot lures payoff as anything interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about looking forward to Ys8 PS4 now. I've heard it's very long, so the story or world exploration better be worth it.

50 hours? I didn't even do everything (though I did a lot) and I finished the game in 90. You must play pretty fast in general - it took me about 30 to beat Nayuta as well. Definitely don't quit after the final chapter - the epilogue is very short and the After Story is worth playing even if just for the final battle and preceding scene. (It's pretty light on story up to that point.)

I'll reserve the rest of my thoughts for after you've finished.
 

Bebpo

Banned
50 hours? I didn't even do everything (though I did a lot) and I finished the game in 90. You must play pretty fast in general - it took me about 30 to beat Nayuta as well. Definitely don't quit after the final chapter - the epilogue is very short and the After Story is worth playing even if just for the final battle and preceding scene.

Hmmm, I don't know. Like I said, I didn't think I was rushing it. Every chapter I'd go to each location and talk with all the NPCs, do all the quests including the secret ones, and take my time in each dungeon and fight every enemy and usually S-rank them thanks to 200 combo count+ and 50% elemental kills. I figure each chapter was about 5-6 hours long? Usually about 1 hour talking to all NPCs, 1 hour questing, 1 hour watching all bonding events, 2-3 hours for main scenario after that? I mean each dungeon was usually only about 5-15 minutes long?

That being said, 90 hours? Wow. I'm more wondering how you didn't get bored of the repetition in that time? Like I said, by 30 hours I got pretty bored. I was really hoping the:

3rd & 4th party faction reveals of the Church & the Government would have been really interesting and brought an Ouroboros type interesting antagonist group into the story who are trying to use the Xanadu dimension for their own goals, but then it turns out the 4th final faction is just the government and they're good guys and on your side.

Also they kept talking about Hiragi being just one of the enforcers/agents of Nemesis so was hoping some cooler and more interesting enforcers would show up in the last couple of chapters, but nothing so far.

They definitely could have had some cool plotlines with enforcers and zodiac members and church members who have drama/conflicts with each other and have character designs, but they didn't, which is weird and disappointing. Almost feels like TX is the FC game but there is no SC game.
 

preta

Member
Hmmm, I don't know. Like I said, I didn't think I was rushing it. Every chapter I'd go to each location and talk with all the NPCs, do all the quests including the secret ones, and take my time in each dungeon and fight every enemy and usually S-rank them thanks to 200 combo count+ and 50% elemental kills. I figure each chapter was about 5-6 hours long? Usually about 1 hour talking to all NPCs, 1 hour questing, 1 hour watching all bonding events, 2-3 hours for main scenario after that? I mean each dungeon was usually only about 5-15 minutes long?

That being said, 90 hours? Wow. I'm more wondering how you didn't get bored of the repetition in that time? Like I said, by 30 hours I got pretty bored. I was really hoping the:

3rd & 4th party faction reveals of the Church & the Government would have been really interesting and brought an Ouroboros type interesting antagonist group into the story who are trying to use the Xanadu dimension for their own goals, but then it turns out the 4th final faction is just the government and they're good guys and on your side.

Also they kept talking about Hiragi being just one of the enforcers/agents of Nemesis so was hoping some cooler and more interesting enforcers would show up in the last couple of chapters, but nothing so far.

They definitely could have had some cool plotlines with enforcers and zodiac members and church members who have drama/conflicts with each other and have character designs, but they didn't, which is weird and disappointing. Almost feels like TX is the FC game but there is no SC game.

I absolutely agree with this sentiment - it was the biggest problem I had with the story. Falcom has said they'd like to do a sequel some time after they finish Cold Steel III, so hopefully we'll see that aspect in play. The potential is there.

Also, the whole dynamic of
Nemesis and Zodiac is very obviously a parallel to Ouroboros and the Septian Church. It's not quite the same, but the symbology is very similar. I thought that was quite interesting.
 

Bebpo

Banned
I absolutely agree with this sentiment - it was the biggest problem I had with the story. Falcom has said they'd like to do a sequel some time after they finish Cold Steel III, so hopefully we'll see that aspect in play. The potential is there.

Also, the whole dynamic of
Nemesis and Zodiac is very obviously a parallel to Ouroboros and the Septian Church. It's not quite the same, but the symbology is very similar. I thought that was quite interesting.

Yeah, definitely.
Nemesis even has like a dark red/black evil logo. Although I think the Olden church is probably more supposed to be the Septian Church. Zodiac is just like an interesting corporate faction and the army is the army.

So much potential with all those groups for conflict! And there's really none outside the little bit with purple hair guy :(

Also chapter 7 was weird when they were like "VALIANT GEAR SQUAD DEPLOY!" and suddenly there's mechs straight out of Cold Steel in TX which is supposed to take place in modern Tokyo in 2015. But I guess that's one of the reasons why the game takes place in alternative universe Tokyo instead of real Tokyo.

The story feels like they had all these ideas, but then decided not to do anything with them and to instead just focus on the character stories of each cast member and then stopping the giant earthquake from happening again. I'm hoping the ending/epilogue/after-story has a few interesting story twists. If not, well that's ok too. Since by then I'll be done with it and will go back to Persona 5 which has much more interesting story stuff haha
 

preta

Member
Yeah, definitely.
Nemesis even has like a dark red/black evil logo. Although I think the Olden church is probably more supposed to be the Septian Church. Zodiac is just like an interesting corporate faction and the army is the army.

So much potential with all those groups for conflict! And there's really none outside the little bit with purple hair guy :(

Also chapter 7 was weird when they were like "VALIANT GEAR SQUAD DEPLOY!" and suddenly there's mechs straight out of Cold Steel in TX which is supposed to take place in modern Tokyo in 2015. But I guess that's one of the reasons why the game takes place in alternative universe Tokyo instead of real Tokyo.

The story feels like they had all these ideas, but then decided not to do anything with them and to instead just focus on the character stories of each cast member and then stopping the giant earthquake from happening again. I'm hoping the ending/epilogue/after-story has a few interesting story twists. If not, well that's ok too. Since by then I'll be done with it and will go back to Persona 5 which has much more interesting story stuff haha

Vague Kiseki series spoilers as well as TX
While it's easy to see the Olden Church as a parallel, the fact that Zodiac is Nemesis' direct rival, plus the fact that they use star symbology and have 12 major members, makes their role in the story more similar to the Septian Church's when you really think about it. We know much less about the Olden Church.

What I found most interesting about that scene is that their goals are basically the opposite of their Kiseki equivalents', if you buy into the theory that Divergent Laws have to do with an alternate dimension - Nemesis tries to monitor and maintain the otherworld, while Zodiac tries to use it for their own ends.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Finished up the final dungeon/chapter & epilogue, will do the after story when I have some time.

It was enjoyable. On the plus side, Falcom puts a lot of effort into their final chapter/final dungeons/epilogues (or maybe they put less effort into the rest of their games haha), so while long and pretty much by the book, it's nice. The final dungeon was neat and felt like more effort went into the design than the normal dungeons. Playing as all of the characters was neat and just goes to show that everyone is fun to play as (although Shio is a bit slow). The final bosses and epilogue bosses were solid, boss fights are a little too spamy in the latter 1/2 and there isn't a ton of challenge, but there's still some satisfying patterns to the dodge.

The epilogue was nice. The loot side of the game goes along way towards making the gameplay fun. Building up your characters with awesome quartz to do crazy damage and then blowing through enemies with air dashes is super satisfying.

Story-wise, eh, it's simple and kinda dull but presentation is fine albiet severely slow paced. It clearly sets up a ton of lore and questions without explaining much as that's not the focus on this game. I didn't like that (endgame spoilers)
story-wise everything in the end revolves around Shiori when until the final chapter I totally thought she was a useless character only in there as a generic little-sister-esque dating persona. She has like no personality or character the whole game, so it was a little hard to care about her in the final chapter which detached me from the plot since the MC was feeling super hard about her and that was his whole drive. I was actually hoping she died and I liked the non-true ending because then she wouldn't be in the plot or sequels, but I'm ok with the logic behind the epilogue ending and I'm fine with a happy end like Goro says. But yeah, I mean a lot of the characters were a bit bland in TX compared to Kiseki, but Shiori was the most bland of the group, so it was weird making the story about her in the end. Maybe they should have spent more time in the 40 hours before developing her character into someone interesting and likeable like Estelle or something before that.

The other thing, is while TX is a fun game and I'd still generally recommend it to Falcom fans/Kiseki fans and arpg fans who know the pacing of Cold Steel and are ok with that, I'm pretty mixed on whether I want TX to continue on as a franchise.

See, normally I'd be cool with TX as a franchise because TX1 is literally Sora FC and just introducing the world & lore and there's huge potential to expand on it and do something interesting with it in future games. There's room for improvement with the combat and difficulty balance as well.

However, the fact Tokyo Xanadu's story is a mirror clone of Kiseki bothers me a lot if TX is going to be a franchise. As a solo game that's like a mirror nod world to Kiseki with mirror Ouroboros and mirror Septian Church and mirror divine laws and mirror legendary beasts and miracles that's fine and kind of a fun little Kiseki spinoff (that really should have had "Kiseki" somewhere in the title). But as a legitimate long running franchise starter? That's...kind of bad because you're talking about Falcom making a new running Franchise that is literally a complete clone of Kiseki except in modern day real world instead of Zemuria. As a franchise it'd just be so unoriginal, I mean Kou is Not-Rean, Asuka is Not-Alisa. Kou even has the freeze up GRABS CHEST secret power connection to the divine laws of the world thing that Rean has in CS. What is the point of running Kiseki franchise and then mirror-world Kiseki franchise at the same time? At least Ys is still unique enough (though I haven't play 8 yet). But I guess we'll see. If they make a TX2 after Cold Steel 3, it'll be interesting if it can become its own game at that point, or if it'll just feel like playing Cold Steel 3 again a year later without the exciting Zemuria stuff going on.

Just my two cents.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Ok, cleared the after story. The quest stuff was fun, and then it was kinda of ho-hum until the final dungeon, but yiiiikes that final dungeon. That was intense. Was really challenging on elite difficulty, the enemy mobs could kill a character in 2-3 hits and fighting bosses as normal enemies in mob groups was kinda cool.

The final dungeon of the after story was tough too. I didn't realize the D team was going to be the one for the hardest final end form and so I put my weakest worst 2 characters as team D and then 10-15 minutes into the fight after barely surviving to that part, it wiped my D team and I got my first game over :| Beat it the next time, but yeah that was the final dungeon & final boss fight you expect from a jrpg. In retrospect, the main game final dungeon & final bosses were too easy.

Some interesting story stuff in end of the after-story dungeon. It addressed one of the many, many questions I thought up while playing the story
What are the Greed and are they sentient because the Yami guy talked to Shiori in the flashback with its "ii darou" so it made it seem the Greed had intelligence. So while they didn't really answer the question of what the Greed are, I'm glad they at least brought up the question for a future game to address. The bit with Rem at the ending where she teases TX2 was fun as well.
.

The After Story plot bits, final dungeon, final boss fight, and ending are pretty major and feel like the real end stuff for the game. I think if I'd played the Vita version without it, I'd have a lower opinion of the game, but the final dungeon showed me that they can do exciting challenging dungeons, the final boss showed they can do tough fights, and the story bits fleshed out the plot and made me more ok with what we got in TX1.

Overall I liked the game even though I fast-forwarded at like 20x speed with L1 through a lot of the generic dialogue in the last chapter and after story (if there's one thing Falcom has lots of these days it's generic dialogue. For example, every single time the same event happens 4-5 times in a row in the game, each time they feel the need to have 20 lines of the characters reacting in shock that the event is happening even though they just went through this 3-4 times already). Still took me about 55-60 hours, so preta, I see where your 90 comes from.

Towards the end I was kinda stuck on figuring what I would rate the game. I like the game, the NPCs, the action, but the pacing is really slow and there's a lot of bloat, especially in the dialogue. I was kind of disappointed the plot wasn't particularly complex, didn't really have almost any interesting twists outside one, and the characters were just alright, but then I enjoyed the bits of interesting plot in the epilogue and after-story and they made me a lot more ok with the core plot, pacing-aside. So in the end, I think I'd still give it a solid 8/10 and recommend it. Even with the plot being what it is, if it was like half the length and pacing more excitingly, it'd be a 9/10 rpg. It's a good game that's best played with a lot of a patience and not-rushing.
 
Top Bottom