That's apparently an unresolved Constitutional issue. Nixon resigned before it ever came to that, so unless Trump does the same we'd be in uncharted waters.
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Trump's Lawyers try a new brilliant* strategy: Cooperate with Mueller(*not brilliant)
- Thread starter Electric Eye
- Start date
That's apparently an unresolved Constitutional issue. Nixon resigned before it ever came to that, so unless Trump does the same we'd be in uncharted waters.
I'm just curious what that particular poster's justification was. It could be "the Senate will never vote to impeach", maybe.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I suspect this is to insulate Trump if Mueller comes out and points the finger at everyone below him, especially if they don't have enough direct evidence to say Trump was involved.
Then the response won't be "He was clearly stymieing the investigation," it will be "He gave everything and cooperated fully, so this completely exonerates him."
Then the response won't be "He was clearly stymieing the investigation," it will be "He gave everything and cooperated fully, so this completely exonerates him."
Gurgelhals
Member
Obligatory:
This is Trump's lawyer:
This is Marvin Grossberg from the Phoenix Wright series:
This is Trump's lawyer:
This is Marvin Grossberg from the Phoenix Wright series:
jufonuk
not tag worthy
This is the calm before the storm trump was talking about.
BrassDragon
Member
Yeah, the end is pretty sobering. It seems like the White House is primarily approaching this as a PR problem instead of legal jeopardy.
A soft ball Senate report, published with lots of noise and breaking news, that doesn't tie any of the principals to collusion (focusing on foot soldiers and go-between organizations) could then be spun as a victory and used to make Mueller's investigation seem like a bureaucratic footnote. Might also give some top cover / plausible deniability to people being interviewed by the special counsel. Of course this is assuming that normal separation of powers has completely broken down on the Republican side which, right now, appears to be more of a House issue than a Senate issue.
Not sure it'll work but it's not wholly irrational.
SaviourMK2
Member
Truth be told, I dont expect them to actually cooperate, I expect them to mislead and falsify, and make it look like they're cooperating.
mehrmantrout
Member
Its a fishing expedition to find out what they've got on him, if only 1% of the allegations turn out to be true he's toast
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
You guys really need to stop getting hyped about Mueller getting neutral information that may or may not further the investigation. Honestly, I'd even suggest to be prepared for the possibility that Trump himself isn't implicated outside of circumstance, and it's just people close to him that go down.
There's this weird assumption liberals like to make that the other side is going to defeat themselves at every turn. I think there's been plenty enough lessons that liberals need to give the other side a little more credit than that. That doesn't mean to expect multi dimensional chess, or a huge pivot, or for there to never be a mistake. Just be open to the possibility that they're a little less dumb than you think.
There's this weird assumption liberals like to make that the other side is going to defeat themselves at every turn. I think there's been plenty enough lessons that liberals need to give the other side a little more credit than that. That doesn't mean to expect multi dimensional chess, or a huge pivot, or for there to never be a mistake. Just be open to the possibility that they're a little less dumb than you think.
User Name Here
Member
I'm still wondering if it's true Trump can pardon himself.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
If you're a politician that has to worry about optics, it certainly can be the right decision. Especially given the particularly high standards of proof required for this investigation in particular.
Otherwise yes, you shouldn't give any information freely to people that are trying to build a case against you, regardless of what the truth is.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
It would be a legal nightmare.
I'm preparing to set my expectations as low as possible. It'll be a really, really terrible day if Mueller comes up with nothing. But, if he's been working this long on it I'm thinking he has to have something on the mutherfucker. Trump can't be that good of a criminal to outwit some of the best lawyers and investigators on the fucking planet. Just hope it happens soon.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
They're basically throwing their hands up and hoping there's nothing to find. Calling this a "strategy" is a gross misuse od the word.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
It's legally uncertain, and like any legally uncertain thing, it will not fall on legal arguments, but instead the outcomes the people on the supreme court feel best about, as long as it's within the bounds of what is legally certain.
And that's really hard to say, because the outcome will probably impact a lot more than the current situation.
old manatee
Banned
It's hilarious that the lawyer is taking Trump at his word. I want to see this dude's face when he finally realizes that Trump had been babbling pure fiction at him since the beginning.
I want my share of garmonbozia.
valkillmore
Member
It will look the same.
RustyNails
Member
Trump's new layer Ty Cobb is either a mole for FBI or the world's dumbest lawyer. He has been wanting to go to Mueller since Day 1, and constantly says it will clear Trump by end of this year. Since its the same lawyer spotted at that cafeteria discussing the Trump case, I'm leaning with the dumbest.
"Your honour. My client, Preisdent Donald J. Trump, may have shit himself, but he did not shit himself intentionally."
*Trump rapidly stands up from his seat and inhales...*
RustyNails
Member
Thats why NY AG Eric Schneiderman is also working with Mueller on Trump Organization matters, in case Trump tries to pardon his cronies or himself.
Also, pardoning someone (or oneself) means that you committed a federal crime first. This will be on your record permanently. The pardon is for that federal crime will also be on the record.
TetraGenesis
Member
I think there's also:
1) He did something bad but doesn't realize it because he's unintelligent and generally unaware. He thinks the actions he and his cronies took are, at worst, bad press.
2) As a narcissist, physically does not have the ability to acknowledge any of his actions or choices as "bad" or "wrong". If it is commonly accepted as "bad" it is the definition of the word that must bend to his will, not the other way around. His truth is the only truth and if other people don't accept that, they are the ones in the wrong.
3) A combination of the above.
I personally think it's 3.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Several months from now . . .
It isn't a bad move, this is not a normal case. The court of public opinion is the only one that matters.
The first question is can Mueller indict the president? It's never actually been tested. There are opinions that he can from the Nixon and Clinton investigations.
The next question is will Mueller indict him. Ken Starr opted to let impeachment deal with Clinton instead of an indictment. An all out PR attack is going to be necessary for Trump on this one.
And the final stop is Impeachment, again if Trump can control the message here he wins.
The first question is can Mueller indict the president? It's never actually been tested. There are opinions that he can from the Nixon and Clinton investigations.
The next question is will Mueller indict him. Ken Starr opted to let impeachment deal with Clinton instead of an indictment. An all out PR attack is going to be necessary for Trump on this one.
And the final stop is Impeachment, again if Trump can control the message here he wins.
People have been telling liberals, since I guess they're the only ones who think like this, that nothing is going to happen since the jump.
In my opinion it's favourable for the opposition if they just let him become a lame duck and finish his term, regardless of the outcome of this investigation. Like you said, impeachment proceedings could backfire hard, like it did for the Republicans with Clinton. Better to render him useless and then vote him out.
I think it's the implication that he genuinely believes Trump did no wrong. Though I imagine it's possible that's the official story and really he wants to just end this one way or another, knowing he is only prolonging the pain otherwise.
The very first question is did Trump collude with the Russians? We still have no evidence of that.
We do, though, have evidence of Trump obstructing justice.
Fuck me, if he somehow weasels out of that... basically sets a precedent for allowing presidents to dismiss FBI heads investigating matters concerning the president/his buddies.
Is that something Mueller would indict the President for? I doubt it.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
They're not doing everything in their power to put him in jail. They're investigating his crimes.
RustyNails
Member
Yeah there's no federal statute against "collusion". But we all know they colluded. Access Hollywood tape comes out, and three days later Podesta's emails start leaking after the ratfucker says its Podesta's time in the barrell? Mueller needs to nail him on racketeering, bribes, and other financial crimes, and connect the dots on collusion.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
History shows he tends to work towards the last one. That has been his motto his entire life. Rob somebody, settle out of court and pay back 80%, pay the lawyers 5%, pocket the 15% ...... Brag about how good of a business man you are.
That shit doesn't work with the Feds on a criminal case though.
The legal term for the crime would be conspiracy.
Starfish Hero
Member
Pretty much where I stand. I figure Trump's team thinks if they bluff hard enough Mueller won't dig further than what they willingly give up.
They think they're playing 4D chess but in reality they're playing regular chess and don't know what the horsey does.