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TTIP has failed but no one is admitting it, says German Vice Chancellor
- Thread starter Kabouter
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capitalCORN
Member
The US has a habit of shoving its cock down everyone's throat. I don't think there was ever a trade agreement the US signed that didn't see the other parties lose out more than they gain.
Good. It would introduce a shitload of harming privatization to my country.
Noam Chomsky on why TIPP is not a trade agreement
Noam Chomsky on why TIPP is not a trade agreement
anonymous_abc
Member
They will just change the name and some minor details and call it a giant success...
All hail the ne TAFUKU Agreement.
All hail the ne TAFUKU Agreement.
Frankfurter
Member
TTIP as it was planned would have been a disaster, so that's good news.
I thought we just keep losing and that we are the biggest, stupidest babies?
BrokenIcarus
Member
Hell yes! No clue why the SPD was pushing it.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Clearly this can't be true. Trump says that every nation on earth walks all over the USA when it comes to treaties and negotiations.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I guess I'm not surprised that Europe refused to roll over for America the way the Pacific Rim nations did.
There's still hope we can kill the TTP but it has to come from the people of the US itself now. Most of the other parties to TTP have already signed it.
There's still hope we can kill the TTP but it has to come from the people of the US itself now. Most of the other parties to TTP have already signed it.
FF Seraphim
Member
Thank the Ruinous Powers that this did not make much progress. No idea what Obama was /is thinking about trying to pass this so god damn hard.
anonymous_abc
Member
You all realize that this is a toothless tiger if CETA get's approved anyway...
Praise the sun.
"Free trade" in the form of let our heavily subsidied food industry kill yours cause that's totally what competition is, true capitalism indeed.
Not to talk about other thing like the ability to take sovereign nations in court for any reason, as if citizens had that right. But corporation should because they're more than people and citizens.
"Free trade" in the form of let our heavily subsidied food industry kill yours cause that's totally what competition is, true capitalism indeed.
Not to talk about other thing like the ability to take sovereign nations in court for any reason, as if citizens had that right. But corporation should because they're more than people and citizens.
Dangansona
Member
People who think the TPP is about the US steamrolling and crushing the other countries signing the deal have no idea what they are talking about.
Pamplemousse
Member
You're missing out Europe! Don't worry. Obama's gonna shove his TPP down everyone's throat. I'm sure everyone's way of life will improve greatly after, not just a few at the top.
The US is trying to push its version of copyright laws down everyone's throats, and being a Canadian, NAFTA has taught us just how one sided making trade deals with the US is.
Night Hunter
Banned
Enlighten us. Please.
Trade deals are very complicated things, especially ones the size of TPP and TTIP. Saying that any one aspect of it defines the entire deal is very reductionist.
Free trade agreements generally reduce or eliminate subsidies.
Pantaghana
Member
The intent is irrelevant, the effect is what matters.
Nah. Lizard person.
USA USA USA!
Wait until you experience the joys of privatization! The nuclear crater leftover from privatization will make the Brexit vote scandal look like a water pistol shot. Is there anyway for sensible heads to prevail and Britain to not absolutely fuck itself?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It's less about America "winning" and Europe losing than it is about American corporations getting to fuck over everybody else and American citizens being colateral damage along the rest.
Obama, just like Clinton, adamantly believes that what is good for American corporations is good for America as it increases its geopolitical sway. This couldn't be further from the truth. Bad trade agreements such as the TTIP effectively transfer power from the state and towards corporations, making them even less accountable in some cases.
Edit: let's see what kind of trade deal the UK gets once it leaves the EU.
Obama, just like Clinton, adamantly believes that what is good for American corporations is good for America as it increases its geopolitical sway. This couldn't be further from the truth. Bad trade agreements such as the TTIP effectively transfer power from the state and towards corporations, making them even less accountable in some cases.
Edit: let's see what kind of trade deal the UK gets once it leaves the EU.
Night Hunter
Banned
Well, isn't this what most of the western world has been doing for the last 30 years anyway. Might as well ...
Selling heavily subsidized food to another country is a pretty direct transfer of wealth from the subsidizing countries taxpayers to the other nations consumers of food. It's a pretty silly thing for the selling country to do, but if you're the buying country why wouldn't you take the deal?
And are citizens in your country not able to take the government to court?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It destroys the competition abroad while making your own industry fully dependant from subsidies as it reorganises itself around corporate welfare and stops being self-supporting.
It's a shit deal all around except of the captains of the industry, which are usually the ones pushing towards liberalisation, when they are actually demanding corporate protectionism. This is what deals like the TTIP are.
The argument is it will destroy your native agricultural industry, and you don't want to be in a position where later the country you are buying from exits the free trade deal or simply stops subsidizing agriculture.
Captains of industry in this case being "farmers".
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
More like huge producers and large conglomerates, which are empowered by these deals and the resulting market dynamics.
Smaller farmers get routinely fucked over, with many of them being forced to close down or sell their operations. Case in point, family owned dairy producers.
This is one of the reasons I'm a huge supporter of coops.
This isn't true. Free trade agreements generally reduce or eliminate tariffs. It is very difficult to eliminate subsidies, given the domestic and political nature of subsidies.
Canadian politicians proposed subsidies to various industries in response to the increased competition that TPP would bring: http://business.financialpost.com/n...-a-done-deal-trade-minister-chrystia-freeland
Hillary Clinton's opposition to the TPP is due in part to the lack of subsidies to industries effected by the TPP (aka "trade adjustment assistance", which brings up another issue--disguised subsidies).
I'm beginning to think these trade deals are actually brilliant - because if every member is complaining about the other countries getting the best of them everyone is a winner!
Ayato Kanzaki
Member
I'd like you to keep in mind that not every person reading this forum is an adult. You can make your point without using sexual metaphores.
That aside, from what I've read of the TTIP, it's US companies that get much out of it. The US governement, not so much.
Night Hunter
Banned
What the fuck am I reading?
If this is your first time in OT, sit back and enjoy the ride.
I can't tell if this is a joke.
Well, isn't this what most of the western world has been doing for the last 30 years anyway. Might as well ...
Well, as Funky Papa said, this has been particularly beneficial to American corporations. Just look at share of global profits:
US corporations have at least 40% of global profits in twelve of those twenty five sectors (and two more within three percentage points); not only that but because of the US government's success in influencing other governments to liberalize their financial markets and the ensuing asymmetry of US firms acquiring a larger share of foreign firms than vice-versa:
All told, American firms combined "own 46% of all publicly listed shares of the top 500 corporations in the world," and 41% of all global household financial assets are in North America. This is all great for American corporations, the American investor class, and American power (both a product of and producer of it), but as the article says towards the end:
The charts and information come from American Economic Power Hasn't Declined-It Globalized! Summoning the Data and Taking Globalization Seriously. By: Starrs, Sean. International Studies Quarterly. Dec2013, Vol. 57 Issue 4, p817-830; I read it through EBSCOhost with my public library account. Here's a link. I don't know if it'll work for anyone else but worth a try.
That's just one thing that the US is pushing across the board. My country capitulated on almost everything in regards to the TPP. Not just with America. When your government is already promising billions to certain industries to balance the losses they would expect, you begin to wonder why the fuck we're doing this, and who exactly does it benefit?
Americans being oblivious to what their corporations do when the enter a country through free trade is amazing. We've lost so many manufacturing jobs, had quite a number of retail business get bought out (which is something US company do when trying to muscle into a market) or forced to close, a good deal of our natural resources are being exploited for the benefit of foreign corporations, and now people want to put our water resources on the open table (fucking BC).
It has pluses and minuses, like pretty much all international agreements. Now you might on the whole dislike the TPP, but pretending there is nothing good in it is just being willfully ignorant.
PdotMichael
Banned
The more disturbing thing is that TTIP isn't loved in the USA.
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