Religion just taps into older and more basic instincts. It's been the chosen tool of leaders and fools for several thousand years but it only has as much power as the humans embracing it. Tribe vs tribe mentality, wishful thinking, all that jazz.
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Two shot outside Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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Religion just taps into older and more basic instincts. It's been the chosen tool of leaders and fools for several thousand years but it only has as much power as the humans embracing it. Tribe vs tribe mentality, wishful thinking, all that jazz.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
This is exactly why I disagree with the whole "money is speech" stance and think all of this lobbying, "donations" stuff sounds like straight up bribery to me. As for politicians making laws to support such ideologies that mandate discrimination, that's the downfall of the politician. (Who should be fired.) It's not a freedom of speech problem.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Even in counties where there are laws against holocaust denial you are free to make fun of the stuff surrounding the whole deal. People often find if somewhat disrespectful though, and prominent political figures usually shy away from stuff like that.
Blackage
Member
Religion will never be gone. It's too easy to spread, and somebody somewhere will always need a reason for religion to dictate their lives.
Actually people use the freedom of speech argument here in the US to support all manner of horrific speech and art. We're pretty liberal in that regard. Additionally, you're comparing a tragedy to some dude who lived a while ago that has turned into some magic being by believers. There's just no justification for outrage.
OuterLimits
Member
Mocking the Holocaust is idiotic but completely legal in the States. Displaying a Nazi, Islamic State, or Confederate flag on your house or clothing is completely legal as well, although you probably will be viewed correctly as being an asshole.
In fact I believe there was one idiot in Connecticut who had the Nazi flag at his house. Neighbors called police and they showed up to ask him to take it down. He refused and there wasn't much the police could do about it. Others idiots have done it as well, but flying the Nazi flag is protected by the First Amendment.
It would suck if my neighbor displayed the Nazi flag, but if I were to assault him because I was offended, I would end up in jail and the Nazi flag would still be displayed.
It's alright to be offended, but please deal with it as every other believer do. Or to be more precise, learn that an "attack" to your religion or towards your ideas is not an attack towards your person.
Fanatism is born out of the self-identification with a cause, which inevitabily ends up with the notion that an idea or abstract concept overrides the individual. Religon might very well be a part of your identity, but it is not yourself. It doesn't have feelings, nor rights, nor it ought to have them.
Avoid feeling personally attacked when your religion, ideas or life paradigm is critisized or mocked in public not only is a prequisite for freedom of speech to exist, but a matter of personal maturity that we would all do well to learn, myself included.
Pamela Geller is the fucking organizer of the event. She actively hates muslims. She even said it on the news they did it to delierbately provoke muslims. They had to of at least thought there was some chance this would happen. That bitch will use the deaths of these two people like the fukcing wagon that she is. An absolute hatemonger. The shooters are scum anyway and my thoughts are with the families of those who were killed. Tragic situtation.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I guess all the circling discussion in here can be somewhat attributed to the preconceptions that asking to be considerate towards other people's feelings is equal to intentions of censure.
If you ask it ONLY for islam and only then when radical islam and murder is involved its no wonder these "preconceptions" happen.
Be fucking honest WHY you demand this (be it fear or whatever) and dont even pretend you meant every religion if you only speak up if it is about islam.
Marauder Shields
Member
I thought the only two people that were killed were the gunman?
Ah right shit. I just woke up to this news. I thought they shot two innocent people. My bad. Point still stands about Pamela geller though. Shes a complete goon.
She is a horrible human being and it was no surprise she was barred from entering the United Kingdom.
It is oddly similar to whenever a huge exclusive game gets lambasted in the gaming forum.
The line between legitimate criticism and flat out trolling will be blurry and the mods need to be vigilant, but the hardcore fans of whichever system gets the exclusive will scream and dennounce horrible, anti-nintendo/sony/microsoft bias from the mods, the gaming press and the universe at large.
Smiles and Cries
Member
This is why it is stupid to react to these drawings in the first place, it allows non-believers the ability to shape your beliefs. The drawing don't represent anything in your belief until you react to it.
The whole thing is childish.
I'm thinking the same thing, it's literally like bait.
| Praxis |
Banned
Two less assholes in the world.
Jag
Member
She is a hateful, inciting piece of shit, but she didn't pull the triggers on the assault rifles. Drawing a cartoon of a magical fairy man is no excuse for pulling out the automatic weapons to go kill people.
I despise those Westboro Bapists assholes with every fiber of my being, but I'm proud that we live in a society that allows them to do what they do AND enables society to fight them with words, not guns.
I also hate Illinois Nazis.
They were shot by the police. You are making a weird assumption on this being a sign that an armed population is safer. The population owning guns didn't make it safer, assuming they didn't get their guns in a legal manner in the first place. Because if you don't have hard gun laws, why bother going through expensive, unsafe illegal channels if the legal channels might be available to you?
I first of all don't have the idea that the United States has less mass shootings than Europe, meaning it is not safer from terrorists. There is also a distinct advantage to stringent gun laws: if the police shoot someone holding an AK-47 in a city in Europe, they probably stopped a crime. In the US they just would have shot an innocent guy visiting Starbucks.
You mean a cartoon is not the same thing as murdering millions of real people?
That's crazy.
/S
Because /s isn't enough, in this case.
#notallbluejays
/S
I'll say it.
Muhammad should be freely mocked.
Jesus should be freely mocked.
Buddha should be freely mocked.
Tom Cruise should be freely mocked.
I should be freely mocked.
You should be freely mocked.
Mockers should be freely mocked.
Freedom, life, and liberty for all.
PhoenixDark
Banned
It's almost stunning, but at the same time happens so much we should expect it.
Sensible people get upset when offended, sure. Those who resort to violence are pieces of shit and deserve no respect. Nor are we obligated to change our behavior to appease their retrograde, barbaric views.
All that being said, Geller is definitely a piece of shit who has probably dreamed of this type of scenario for years. I have no respect for her.
wat
Chuckie
Member
I really don't understand shit like this.
They are bad but not as bad as the shooters not even close!
One is a horde of murderes the other are political partys that happened and grew because the left likes to stick their heads in the sand if it is about radical islam.
Holy shit. You can't be this insane.
Racists are awful people but anyone who murders or attempts murder is FAR worse. Having terrible views is one thing, but acting on terrible views to inflict harm and death? You cannot compare the two at all.
quickwhips
Member
That's like saying minorities shouldn't walk down the street because police.
gutter_trash
Banned
no, it's more tribalism than anything else.
If you don't grow up religious, you pretty much do not have that fervor inside you. Nothing instinctive about it
I grew up secular and pretty much don't get about going bananas about religions getting offended
Tribalism in the other hand, is more real. Ties into more a collective identity, nationalism or what not
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I hope we see more exhibits like this to fight these terrorists.
entremet
Member
All those red blooded MERCANS on twitter basically calling for the extinction of muslims tonight with some #WeAreGarland and other associated bullshit hashtags. This idiots are gonna get me killed in the street.
I know your view is not popular one in this thread, but I do hope people are symphatetic of the fact that when this happens in your neck of the woods, your survival instincts make you think otherwise, regardless of platitudes of free speech. It's just human nature.
I'm pro free speech, but I live in NYC and if some group started buying ad space in the subways depicting Muhammad, I would be extremely scared of using the subway during my commutes in fear of some wacko bomber on the trains.
It does change your perspective when it affect you personally.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words mean you can shoot me.
The keyword here is should. These things can be done in a free society with no threat of harm but, if we want to build better relationships with each other, then we should probably talk about it directly with Tom Cruise instead of mocking him. You know, being kind to others and whatnot.
By all means, mock whatever or whoever you want, but don't expect to be seen in a kind light, especially if the people looking at you are incredibly insane. (BTW, before you accuse me of defending this attack, let me say that I am not.)
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Circle Jerk
Member
It must have been really difficult to find an idiot on twitter.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
The only idiots are the dead gunmen who got killed over a cartoon.
So who's the drawing the line between freedom of speech and hate speech/mongering.
well he is not wrong its all about radical idiots... again... and not what is shown in the drawings which most newspaper wont even show or black out anyway.. which also tells you why we need such art exhibitions.
Looking at this thread evidently the line gets drawn by the people that use violence.
I am an Agnostic-Atheist.
I see "What part of Thou Shall Not do you not understand" billboards in public space.
I see church signs everywhere telling me things like "Christians are not perfect, only forgiven" every time I step out.
And I couldn't care less.
I mean, I could care less, I guess. But that would require effort.
alfredofroylan
Member
One of the gunmen has been identified
http://www.ibtimes.com/elton-simpson-idd-1-draw-muhammad-contest-shooters-garland-texas-1906954
It is rather insane, is it not.
So let's move on from the debate of should we/should we not condone these kinds of events and drawings.
Let's assume that we allow them, in the pursuit of freedom and free speech.
How, then, do you deal with the inevitable retaliations from radical islamists? The only strategy you can employ inside the american borders is a defensive one...SWAT up and don't fire until fired upon.
If that's your core strategy, how many americans are you willing to let die in the process?
Let's assume that we allow them, in the pursuit of freedom and free speech.
How, then, do you deal with the inevitable retaliations from radical islamists? The only strategy you can employ inside the american borders is a defensive one...SWAT up and don't fire until fired upon.
If that's your core strategy, how many americans are you willing to let die in the process?
Squirrel Killer
Member
The group sponsoring the exhibition may be racist assholes, but equating them to the attempted shooters is fucking offensive.
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