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U.S. Employers Struggle To Match Workers With Open Jobs

Beyond H1B, what blows my mind is tech recruiting companies. If I accept a contract that a recruiting company negotiated for $90k the recruiter also gets $90k. What?! Why can't you just hire me full time then?!

I've seen this in other fields too. I've worked in an office as a long term temp and with shitty wages but the agency was also getting paid each week for me being there. The agency's job finished as soon as they placed me, it was crazy.

Worse than that, you got treated as a 2nd class employee by your colleagues, no matter how long you stayed there and got none of the benefits of sick pay, holidays or even invited to company parties/team building events.

You were basically hired so the company didn't need to give you any benefits whatsoever.
 

Pixels

Member
I've seen this in other fields too. I've worked in an office as a long term temp and with shitty wages but the agency was also getting paid each week for me being there. The agency's job finished as soon as they placed me, it was crazy.

Worse than that, you got treated as a 2nd class employee by your colleagues, no matter how long you stayed there and got none of the benefits of sick pay, holidays or even invited to company parties/team building events.

You were basically hired so the company didn't need to give you any benefits whatsoever.

Yep, I've experienced the same thing.
 

Kenai

Member
My new job asked for 2 years pharmacy tech experience, but they "settled" for my 20 months.

Pay's less (better benefits tho), but I am doing less than I was when I was a brand new hire at my old job (retail pharmacy, only thing I knew how to do back there day 1 was the register), and it's kinda brainless. I definitely feel overqualified, they could have brought on someone new and have them up to speed almost as quickly since they aren't expecting me to know anything about the drugs I am sorting or anything like that (even though I do). I'm grateful I have a job but I am still a bit weirded out.
 

Makai

Member
Beyond H1B, what blows my mind is tech recruiting companies. If I accept a contract that a recruiting company negotiated for $90k the recruiter also gets $90k. What?! Why can't you just hire me full time then?!
I have two levels of nested recruiters between me and my company. What were they thinking
 
This has been true for a while, especially in IT during the recession. You would see a LAUNDRY list full of qualifications needed for the job. Degree, multiple certifications, 10+ years experiences, EVERYTHING...then you get to the salary and they are paying 50K. WTF come on, companies are so full of shit. If you want an employee that has put the time and work in for all of these things you need to pay top dollar not try to low ball them.
 
Well that's what happens when every entry level job demands years of experience. You can't get the job without experience and you can't get the experience without a damn job.
How hard is it to teach somebody how to work a register. All these clown jobs want you to come in as an expert no matter how basic it is.
 
Not just the US.
I have a law degree, worked outside of Germany as a project manager, can speak German, English, Chinese, worked in SEO/SEM and cant find anything...

The jobs my parents started with a middle school degree in the 70s now require a university degree...

Also one thing I noticed that relationships are more and more important. I often see, after applying for a job and being rejected, that the new employee (through Xing) has the same surname as another employee in that company. I know a lot of people who got into their job because their friends introduced them or the father had some connections. Heck. Our local offices, where I did my civil service, had most people from the same family working there...
 

HeatBoost

Member
Really makes you wonder how much of this is just some idiot executive going "Y'KNOW WHAT I'D LIKE?" vs what it actually takes to do a job

You can't have it both ways. You either pay for the super cert hyper pros you want to hire, or you hire the bare minimum it takes to do the job at the bare minimum pay.

I mean, they'll probably do it that way anyway, but y'know, it's stupid and probably bad in the long run
 
How do they operate without filling those jobs? Eventually something has to give, right?
Bear in mind the job market isn't some kind of overall static situation where when one job is added or removed, all the others stay the same. Generally, labor shortages and recessions are messy, asymmetrical, irrational affairs. People will get hired to do things they're not good at, or laid off when the company can't function without them. I was working in industry during the recession and places didn't just cut the fat -- they cut, skin, muscle, and vital organs all the way to the bone. As in, they didn't look at the numbers to figure out how to scrape by; entire departments from research to QA were cut 40%, 50%, 60%, even outright eliminated. The result was that as business picked up, none of these places could fill orders. But it didn't really hurt them individually, because they all did it. It did leave the U.S. at a serious disadvantage in the global market, but the suits didn't panic because they're all international firms now anyway (more on that in a bit).

So, what should happen when "something gives" is that acutely or chronically understaffed businesses should start losing clients for their inability to release product or handle orders, possibly even go under. But on a consumer level Americans are amazingly shitty to their own workers (just ask anyone in foodservice or retail) and would rather bitch about the status quo than accept a price increase. Also, the government is irrationally friendly to monopolies. So service is a very stretchy thing here, economically. Sectors like the airlines or Internet providers aren't hurting nearly as much as they should despite treating customers with open contempt, regardless of staffing level. So, why not cut to the bone? This is nothing new, but it does mean American service businesses can coast almost indefinitely on low staffing levels and shitty service.
As for places that sell widgets, based on my experience, the U.S. is currently in a very precarious position. It's trying to coast on leverage it gained over the 20th century but that advantage isn't there anymore. I think a lot of the current political climate is because of that. Post-WW2, the U.S. was often the only game in town. The U.S. today is best at very few things anymore, and hardly cares, to the point that U.S. business leaders openly lobby on behalf of their overseas investments. Seriously, if maker of U.S. goods ILoveAmericaCorp proudly has 150 employees doing admin work in Dallas and ohbytheway has 50,000 sweatshop workers in Bangladesh actually making the stuff, do you really think they'll freak if the U.S. inks a trade deal that makes U.S. labor less competitive? Because most of the companies I became familiar with when I was in industrial sales did shit like this.

Chillingly, that means the labor market has no bottom, because the "Job Creators" can now find all the workers, customers and friendly bureaucrats they want in other countries. The only real reasons left to be a "U.S." company are military protection, legal protection, amazingly stable currency (though Congress seems to want to undermine that) and legislators so self-destructively corrupt they can't drop their pants fast enough if you say you're a business owner and want to shove a splintered bat up someone's asshole. This whole "we can't find workers" narrative was initially used to expand the H1-B program to undermine skilled labor, but now I think there's something else going on here. Companies that feel they actually need to fill positions will find a way to do it. That they'll dig in, instead, implies these aren't real offers, which is a sign they really want something else. They're not hiring or bringing people here; so maybe they want to be opening offices there?
So this is my speculation, but I think the next step is a favorable benefit/cost split for what are entirely foreign firms. Literally all the business is done overseas, but the important stuff is tied to a minimum-size P.O. box in Delaware. Military protection? We're based out of Delaware. Contract lawsuit? We're a U.S. company, we have rights! Taxes? Oh, we're a foreign business, sorry. Regulations? We do business in China, that would be so unfair and uncompetitive! But to pull this off they need to manufacture a problem like, well, a permanent U.S. labor shortage. "We haven't been able to fill any of our domestic openings for 28 months; we tried, but can we leave now?" Could I be wrong? I dearly hope so, but looking at where we've headed the last 20 years. . .
 

KingV

Member
My favorite is TCS. They straight up lie on H1B applications. Guys coming in with 10+ years experience in Java not knowing how to quickly import needed classes.

Any company which outsources development to them deserves what they get.



The intended purpose is bullshit in itself. There is no shortage of workers in America. If someone cant do the job, an investment should be made to train them.

Its all about exploitation of corporations.

I don't work in tech, but work in analytics within my industry, so we have similar requirements for our applicants, usually with a Masters degree, which IMO is justified in our case, because you need to have some experience with statistical modeling and validation.

I have mixed feelings on H1B. 1) my company doesn't abuse it, but we HAVE to use H1B (or OTP, and sponsor for a green card) to find talent. I literally cannot get American applicants to apply for positions. The pool of people that get Masters in Statistics or Economics, or even an undergrad degree in math is heavily foreign and I haven't found a way around it.

Granted, we hire for the long haul, and will train our employees, but there is a limit to what you can do. I'm not going to hire a guy with an undergrad marketing degree and be able to train him to build marketing response models in SAS.

 
My favorite is TCS. They straight up lie on H1B applications. Guys coming in with 10+ years experience in Java not knowing how to quickly import needed classes.

Any company which outsources development to them deserves what they get..

I've worked with them, you would die to hear some of the stories that I have.So many contractors on site that have 0 experience in the project they are working on basically winging it for $$$.
 

scitek

Member
Expectations are too high.
Pay is too low for the job requirements, or the job requirements are unreasonable.

I'm a marketing producer at a TV station. I write and edit reasonably well. I saw a "video editor" opening at WB Interactive Entertainment the other day, and they are looking for a someone with an art degree and 3DStudio Max knowledge. So, they really want a 3D animator who took the time to teach himself how to edit video.
 
We've been birthing a job market for liars. Probably a lot of resumes are put together with plenty of half truths.

US employers fucking suck. Finding a job is one of the hardest things.
 

hbkdx12

Member
The whole job hunting landscape is really crazy.

Tangentially related but things that always drive me up the wall when looking at positions.

-salary history (not to be confused with salary requirement) - wtf does me telling you what I made at all my other jobs (that may or may not even have anything to do with the job I'm applying for) do other than let you try to potentially lowball the fuck out of me.

The 9 to 5 is no longer 9 to 5 - the amount of jobs that I've seen that are like 8:30-5:30 or even 8-6 is pretty got damn staggering.
 

Nikodemos

Member
I'm a marketing producer at a TV station. I write and edit reasonably well. I saw a "video editor" opening at WB Interactive Entertainment the other day, and they are looking for a someone with an art degree and 3DStudio Max knowledge. So, they really want a 3D animator who took the time to teach himself how to edit video.
That's because WBIE doen't actually want a video editor. What they want is a 3D animator they can get in a video editing job then offer an animation posting for a smidgen more money than what they're currently giving him/her as video editor.

Basically it's a cheap trick to keep salaries low by "internal advancement", while at the same time being able to tout "intra-corporate upwards mobility". Had they been required to resort to external hiring, they'd have to offer more for the position.
 

jmood88

Member
I always thought that people were exaggerating about the ridiculous qualifications for jobs, then I got out of grad school and kept seeing positions where they wanted a master's, plus 3-5 years of experience, and paid $35,000 - $40,000. It's insane.
 

gwarm01

Member
My new job asked for 2 years pharmacy tech experience, but they "settled" for my 20 months.

Pay's less (better benefits tho), but I am doing less than I was when I was a brand new hire at my old job (retail pharmacy, only thing I knew how to do back there day 1 was the register), and it's kinda brainless. I definitely feel overqualified, they could have brought on someone new and have them up to speed almost as quickly since they aren't expecting me to know anything about the drugs I am sorting or anything like that (even though I do). I'm grateful I have a job but I am still a bit weirded out.

Are you still in retail pharmacy? Techs tend to be paid more, have better benefits, and a better work environment in hospital pharmacy. Higher experience expectations usually, but not always.
 
I'd personally rather train someone than have to untrain them from bad practices they may have picked up from previous positions.
Unfortunately, that's not how a lot of companies think. I've been on the job hunt since early spring, and the most stressful thing about it is that despite being CompSci major maintaining a perfect GPA, nobody is willing to buy that I'm eager to learn the ropes of an entry level position.

It's going to be a while before I can get a job in my direct discipline so it's really annoying.
 

dramatis

Member
I have mixed feelings on H1B. 1) my company doesn't abuse it, but we HAVE to use H1B (or OTP, and sponsor for a green card) to find talent. I literally cannot get American applicants to apply for positions. The pool of people that get Masters in Statistics or Economics, or even an undergrad degree in math is heavily foreign and I haven't found a way around it.
If companies are willing to fund full ride scholarships for those degrees, maybe the pool of American applicants can grow. But given the cost of higher education obviously companies would prefer just hiring foreign workers for less.
 

scitek

Member
That's because WBIE doen't actually want a video editor. What they want is a 3D animator they can get in a video editing job then offer an animation posting for a smidgen more money than what they're currently giving him/her as video editor.

Basically it's a cheap trick to keep salaries low by "internal advancement", while at the same time being able to tout "intra-corporate upwards mobility". Had they been required to resort to external hiring, they'd have to offer more for the position.

I get it, but it's frustrating. I'd like to work on marketing gaming content instead of local news, but they're looking for employees I have trouble believing aren't already making twice what WBIE would offer.
 
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