You honestly believe that the pepole seeking to remain are largely upper class snobs, out of touch with the working man?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
UK government expects to lose Brexit trigger case, making contingency plans
- Thread starter Beefy
- Start date
- Status
AHA-Lambda
Member
Actually I'd be curious to know what the source is on that utter crap of an article excerpt.
Why I want the press regulated. So much shit is written.
Interface_2037
Banned
Worse than that...middle class snobs.
No, those were the ones gallantly rushing to defend the poor downtrodden working classes against the evils of employee rights and supra-state regulation of multinational corporations.
I'm afraid the nefarious Remainers are a far worse bunch than that lot.
They are...
English Literature graduates.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I love it when uninformed idiots use quotes from and support people who are the very definition of the things they claim to hate.
Proudly revelling in their ignorance and stupidity like pigs in their own filth.
Cunts. Be embarrassed that you're the wretched end result of centuries of struggling and hardship by your ancestors.
Proudly revelling in their ignorance and stupidity like pigs in their own filth.
Cunts. Be embarrassed that you're the wretched end result of centuries of struggling and hardship by your ancestors.
Interface_2037
Banned
I know you don't know how to handle people who have the temerity to step outside the pro EU group think that is so prevalent here, but please stop with the personal attacks.
Seeing as I am neither middle class or a snob, you are clearly wrong.
30yearsofhurt
Member
You're the one calling people snobs.
Interface_2037
Banned
His other Spectator articles are here
Which features such great work as "Why the Spanish may be better off without a government", "Britain needs a museum of communist terror" and "How British universities spread misery around the world"
Miles Quaritch
Member
Enlightened middle class fellow who sees through the veil of liberal ignorance.
AHA-Lambda
Member
well I think that speaks for itself then
As a working class common brit, you and your views most definitely do not represent me. In fact, I find your opinion inconceivable. You're using the rallying cries of the upper class to protect you from the middle class? That guy you quoted has a crazy elite employment history.
Interface_2037
Banned
Whatever I am, it's a better place to be than you...
..which is the very definition of what the article is describing.
The SC probably won't, but it'll be interesting if they do, because there won't be an executive in NI by the end of March (it's actually pretty likely that power sharing is dead in NI if the DUP continue to be the largest unionist party)
Miles Quaritch
Member
Struck a nerve huh? I hope you weren't under the misguided impression that you were a special enlightened snowflake who could see the true nature of things.
QuicheFontaine
Member
It's not sour grapes, it's exactly how things should be done in our system. The fact that the Govt are expecting to lose the case kinda points to the merit of bringing the case in the first place, no?
Royal_Phalanx
Member
The government is acting like people who voted Remain don't exist. Which is unacceptable considering that this could only be reversed in decades and not 4-8 years like every other election. An entire generation will grow up with not being in the EU. You should do the right thing for them, surely.
Captain Hypocrisy invites you to stop with the personal attacks. Please keep them to broad and baseless ones like the "middle class liberal snobs".
It's Reyn Time!
Member
It's possible, yes. But as we all know asking the public a question is democracy, but asking them if they're sure is TREASON.
In light of the way the public were lied to (with all pretence immediately dropped hours after the result), the effect it's had on our currency and the slightly embarrassing 'supporting and siding with racists and bigots' thing you can be damn sure a leave vote wouldn't come close to winning a second time.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Sorry, what are you basing that on?
UK Polling Report had a piece on this a couple of weeks ago basically saying public opinion doesn't seem to have moved since the referendum.
Interface_2037
Banned
Snowflake?....Generation X if you please.
It would be the same as in June - too close to call beforehand. Which makes sense really as despite everything, nothing much has changed. We're still in the EU, and the cabinet still seems to have no idea of what they want Britain outside the EU to mean/look like.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Mostly on the absolute frothing terror shown by leave voters whenever a second referendum is mentioned, but I'm also basing it on the reactions of leave voters who realised they were lied to in order to secure their vote, the number of people who either regret not voting the first time or used their vote as a protest without realising there was a chance it'd happen (thanks largely to those very pollsters you just linked to) and the general clusterfuck which has ensued.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I suspect once the real implications of leaving become clear (regarding the new relationship) polls will shift. I think Remain would have easily won by a strong majority if our group wasn't so complacent and thought 'WE GOT THIS BRAHS'. Academics are already looking at leaving to work in EU countries. Automation will decimate unskilled work in this country, the working class would see the EU as the 'good old days' once realities hit. You really think employers won't build more shit like self service machines rather than raise wages significantly?
SomedayTheFire
Member
this post is absolutely hilarious.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I think your surety is a little misguided. You may personally know leave voters who have changed their mind but that doesn't mean there's been a sea-change in opinion. The polls were by-and-large correct leading up to referendum - the result was within the margin of error, and indeed the same result is still within the margin of error. I don't think there's cause to be "damn sure" of either result if there were to be a second referendum.
autumnleaf
Member
I think if there was a second referendum it would still be a close vote either way the same as in June. Unfortunately the Government wishes to pretend it was a decisive victory that has given it a mandate to do whatever it likes instead of acknowledging how divided the country actually is.
Pyramid head
Banned
Oh man.
Reading this thread backwards and seeing this quoted, I thought, 'Sums up that moronic viewpoint perfectly'.
...then to see for what reason it was originally posted.
Jesus Christ.
I note that you never responded to my point in the other thread.
What's your explanation for the fact that some of the most deprived areas of the country voted to remain in Europe? Coldhabour ward in Lambeth is in the top 10% most deprived areas in England and Wales, and yet voted strongly to stay in the EU. Likewise, whilst some labour voters did vote to leave two thirds voted to stay, and the trade unions (who are hardly bastions of middle class liberalism) were almost all in favour of staying.
Similarly, some of the richest areas of the country in the Home Counties etc. Voted to leave the EU.
Your narrative of middle class snobbish urbanites ignoring the working class is utter bullshit and lies. The strongest correlation for voting to leave isn't based on income or class, it's based on cultural values. Whether you think feminism is a bad thing or not is a better judge of how you vote than how much you earn.
I really don't think, at this point, that we should be talking about a second referendum. Clearly, this idea that in the last six months, the view has swung more towards staying in the EU after all is nonsense (if anything, I would say that the camps for the most part have just become more polarised). Perhaps in another six months there could be some grand sea change in public opinion and people suddenly decide that leaving the EU is a scarier propsect than they thought and that really they'd rather stay in, but I don't think that's realistic either.
Not to mention, realistically holding another referendum any time soon is just playing into exactly what the shrieking Leavers allege; that pro-EU people have a technocratic bent to them, that they think they know best and that the people who disagree with them are too stupid to be allowed an opinion (irrespective of the truth of this, it's exactly and precisely how they'd play it to win a second referendum; especially with deeply, wildly unpopular people like Tony Blair pushing for it).
Not to mention, realistically holding another referendum any time soon is just playing into exactly what the shrieking Leavers allege; that pro-EU people have a technocratic bent to them, that they think they know best and that the people who disagree with them are too stupid to be allowed an opinion (irrespective of the truth of this, it's exactly and precisely how they'd play it to win a second referendum; especially with deeply, wildly unpopular people like Tony Blair pushing for it).
It seems the government are debating whether to shoot themselves in the foot or the country in the head. FML. How Corbyn is not making a political killing out of this is beyond me.
Stallion Dan
Member
But the real reason is sour grapes.
jimbobsmells
Member
Because Corbyn doesn't actually want to be PM?
To play devil's advocate, The richer, younger and more educated you are the more likely you are to be a remainer. London is where it gets a bit weird though.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/da...nd-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won
https://www.theguardian.com/news/da...nd-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won
I think this is wishful thinking. Automation is going to happen anyway. The EU has nothing to do with that and will also be hit just as hard. The working classes in Britain aren't going to look back fondly on the days of "uncontrolled immigration" and "Brussels bureaucracy" because those narratives are too well entrenched, and because they are based on important kernels of truth (ie. EU member states can't block EU migration) which makes it very hard for pro-EU forces to gain the momentum in the debate.
I think that the damage caused by Brexit will disproportionately affect our relatively international-facing and high-skill industries, and will take months and years to unfold, as/if talent drains away, companies choose not to invest, and so on, and therefore a significant degree of any Brexit damage will be imperceptible to the average voter. Most voters are not intensely engaged in the political process and they are unlikely to feel the impacts of Britain repealing the Third Railway Package, or leaving the European Medicines Agency, or EU Intellectual Property Office, and so on, even if they are in fact impacted by these changes in ways they don't see.
If the economic situation in the Eurozone deteriorates, which is plausible and maybe even probable, that will harden British perceptions of the EU as a 'shrinking' power and the folk wisdom that we were 'wise to get out in time'. And if post-Brexit Britain is able to match EU growth rates, I bet that British euroscepticism will be solidified for decades.
To play devil's advocate, The richer, younger and more educated you are the more likely you are to be a remainer. London is where it gets a bit weird though.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/da...nd-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won
Those graphs are weird
British class structure is serious business. Why limit yourself to only discriminating by skin colour when there are so many other factors you could add into the mix?
Your social grading is scarily correlated to the supermarket you shop at.
I can't lie, I'd look at a friend differently if I went to their place and saw a Waitrose bag.
jimbobsmells
Member
I best not catch you round these ends, fam.
Of course, middle class snobs. Like the black population who overwhelmingly voted remain. Because as we all know, black people in the UK tend to live in trendy apartments and shop at waitrose.
Except Lidl for some reason which round here seems to be full of all sorts. I think the retired middle classes are just buying the 'unusual' European products to show off though.
- Status