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[NeoGold123]

No they weren't. Volunteering and voluntary are two different things.

Goddamn, you're right.

vol·un·tar·y
adjective
1. done, given, or acting of one's own free will.

vol·un·teer
verb
gerund or present participle: volunteering
freely offer to do something.

 

[BigDes]

So? How many times do you think that they're told by a passenger denied passage that their case is special? How do they verify that in a timely manner? And again merely having patients doesn't tell you whether it's dire or not, he could just be doing routine shit that's easily covered by his coworkers for all we know.

The problem's not that they ignored his objection, frankly, I don't think people should be stuck trying to outbid each other over how important it is they're not the one kicked off a flight, it's that we allow overbooking at all. But if we are going to allow overbooking then you have to make peace with the fact that sometimes people are going to be removed from flights. If you're not ok with that the answer isn't to turn the crew into judges of the importance of their passengers' lives but make overbooking illegal.

Oh ok you're right

Best they smash his face off an armrest then

Whoo you saved America.

 

[LouisaFerre]

"yeah it was overbooked on purpose but-"
"Yeah they didn't try to offer more money to volunteers before using force but-"

Nah.
Nah.
Nah.

Sorry, but anyone who's trying to turn this into a criticism more of the passenger than the airline just because the business practices that led up to this are normal can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned. It is United's fault they don't have enough seats, and it's also United that decided to resort to forcibly kicking people off the plane when they did. They shouldn't be doing this shit and that should really be the end of the discussion.

I'm really disgusted by people who try to turn conflicts like these into a criticism of whoever got fucked over for not trying to be more convenient towards the group that's responsible for the situation in the first place.

 

[BronsonLee]

I still don't get how it was acceptable to prepare an incentive of 800$ per person, but not look into buying a plane or bus ticket for the four employees with that money.

Cause vouchers cost them much less than actual money tbh

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

I'm sorry but I'm struggling to understand why over-booking exists.

If they have say 200 seats on a plane and they sell 200 seats and people have paid for them why do they then continue to sell more seats on that plane if there is no seats left to sell? Yes people might not turn up but if that seat is paid for already and the person does not turn up then that's their fault, why can they be allowed to sell it to someone else?

Do airlines not take money off people until they turn up at the airport or something?

 

[Monocle]

Wow, thank goodness for modern technology. Those pictures are damning.

UA deserves this PR disaster.

 

[Barzul]

So how does it work? Do you get booked on another flight plus cash? Or only receive the cash? If it's the latter then $800 doesn't cut it really. But I'd probably have bit at like $1200

Didn't they just go through the leggings scandal? That was United right. I know I've avoided them ever since my cousin told me they lost his luggage. It's Delta or Southwest for me mostly.

 

[Skellig Gra]

So how does it work? Do you get booked on another flight plus cash? Or only receive the cash? If it's the latter then $800 doesn't cut it really. But I'd probably have bit at like $1200

Flight plus money

 

[Smokey]

Fuck United Airlines

yep. 3 horrible experiences in a row with them.

 

[Aselith]

If he is that sucks but how does one know that? And what does patients waiting mean? Life or death? An inconvenience of having to reschedule? An emergency open heart surgery? How do you know? And if it is just routine business for him does that make it more important than anyone else's stuff going on in their lives just because he's a doctor?

It's all shit that's irrelevant because if you book something you should expect to be able to take it barring mechanical or natural disaster. I'm not on the side of the airline I just think people unwilling to follow the rules as established need to be mentally and physically prepared for what happens next. That's why I think he acted like a baby, I believe placing yourself into a situation you can't emotionally or physically handle is childish. It's not wrong, he wasn't in the wrong here, but grown adults should be able to see the inevitable conclusion of their immediate actions beforehand and make an intelligent decision in advance.

It's not inevitable that you will be physically abused by people that you paid to transport you if you don't agree let them kick you off for someone else. I can't actually imagine anything further from inevitability tbh.

 

[seanoff]

So how does it work? Do you get booked on another flight plus cash? Or only receive the cash? If it's the latter then $800 doesn't cut it really. But I'd probably have bit at like $1200

Didn't they just go through the leggings scandal? That was United right. I know I've avoided them ever since my cousin told me they lost his luggage. It's Delta or Southwest for me mostly.

Cash + rebook + meals + accom if overnight

 

[bobbytkc]

Because anyone could have any number of reasons why they shouldn't be asked to leave. If you've done random selection you need to disregard individual circumstances and deal with the consequences afterwards.

It looks like he did have reason enough for United to get him back on the flight, as he did go back on, but he could have gotten that same result without refusing the airline security.

Again, it is absolutely shitty to do a customer but they have the right to ask him to leave and you comply and resolve afterwards. Physical removal is an escalation that you'd want to avoid, but if someone is refusing to leave, private business have the option to do so.

There really is a defense force for everything.

 

[BronsonLee]

btw unless dude wants to settle quietly they're going to get completely crushed on this from a PR perspective

 

[Antiwhippy]

If he is that sucks but how does one know that? And what does patients waiting mean? Life or death? An inconvenience of having to reschedule? An emergency open heart surgery? How do you know? And if it is just routine business for him does that make it more important than anyone else's stuff going on in their lives just because he's a doctor?

It's all shit that's irrelevant because if you book something you should expect to be able to take it barring mechanical or natural disaster. I'm not on the side of the airline I just think people unwilling to follow the rules as established need to be mentally and physically prepared for what happens next. That's why I think he acted like a baby, I believe placing yourself into a situation you can't emotionally or physically handle is childish. It's not wrong, he wasn't in the wrong here, but grown adults should be able to see the inevitable conclusion of their immediate actions beforehand and make an intelligent decision in advance.

I've never seen someone double down so hard on their mistaken assumptions.

 

[Majine]

I'm sorry but I'm struggling to understand why over-booking exists.

If they have say 200 seats on a plane and they sell 200 seats and people have paid for them why do they then continue to sell more seats on that plane if there is no seats left to sell? Yes people might not turn up but if that seat is paid for already and the person does not turn up then that's their fault, why can they be allowed to sell it to someone else?

Do airlines not take money off people until they turn up at the airport or something?

Well, they sell stuff to passengers while in transit too. And I guess it's good Image that seats are taken rather than empty.

Regardless, Overbooking is pure anti-consumer bullshit. Fuck them and their occasional empty seat.

 

[bloodydrake]

The practice of overbooking flights needs to be changed,it just causes to many problems.

The idea of increasing the amount paid till someone bites is a good one.Really like this idea if they won't outlaw the practive of overbooking.

The idea that because you bought a ticket you can refuse to abide by the crews command to leave the plane? Laughable.

The doctor is an idiot. NO ONE dictates to the flight crew they aren't leaving. Argue why you need to get to your destination, give them a number to call that proves its an emergency, but once security shows up your done.
The fact he choose to resist them, ridiculous, he should be charged with some sort of criminal mischief(or whatever the legal charge would be) and potentially barred from flying again on United in the future.

Good luck with the lawsuit, they didn't commit a crime, the doctor did.
It was a shitty luck of the draw he was picked to leave, the level of entitlement expressed is astounding.

 

[BigDes]

There really is a defense force for everything.

THe amount of people that are absolutely desperate to make sure that any perceived authority is blameless for everything is honestly mind boggling

You see it any time something like this happens

"Yeah it looks bad but "

 

[Aegus]

Does this overbooking shit still happen if I'm booking from Europe and all my connecting flights depend on me being on the goddamn flight?

Do the consumer rights of the EU work in this scenario?

I wonder about America.

 

[Principate]

No they weren't. Volunteering and voluntary are two different things.

Are you high? In this context they aren't.

 

[Gattsu25]

The practice of overbooking flights needs to be changed,it just causes to many problems.

The idea of increasing the amount paid till someone bites is a good one.Really like this idea if they won't outlaw the practive of overbooking.

The idea that because you bought a ticket you can refuse to abide by the crews command to leave the plane? Laughable.

The doctor is an idiot. NO ONE dictates to the flight crew they aren't leaving. Argue why you need to get to your destination, give them a number to call that proves its an emergency, but once security shows up your done.
The fact he choose to resist them, ridiculous, he should be charged with some sort of criminal mischief(or whatever the legal charge would be) and potentially barred from flying again on United in the future.

Good luck with the lawsuit, they didn't commit a crime, the doctor did.
It was a shitty luck of the draw he was picked to leave, the level of entitlement expressed is astounding.

God fucking dammit, GAF.

We really have defense forces for everything.

Also, you should probably look up the definition of entitlement. I'd say that paying for a seat and expecting to get that seat fit the definition to a tee.

 

[Aselith]

I'm sorry but I'm struggling to understand why over-booking exists.

If they have say 200 seats on a plane and they sell 200 seats and people have paid for them why do they then continue to sell more seats on that plane if there is no seats left to sell? Yes people might not turn up but if that seat is paid for already and the person does not turn up then that's their fault, why can they be allowed to sell it to someone else?

Do airlines not take money off people until they turn up at the airport or something?

They have literally decades of data on how many people are likely to cancel not just on flights in general but on a given route so they look at the data and play the odds that the cancellations will match historical trends under a threshold. Every business does this to handle staffing and predict call volume and stuff like that to some extent. Basically they look at trends and build a safety net and overbooking happens when the day bucks historical trends AND the safety net. Hotels also do this.

One way it benefits customers is allowing them to be a little more flexible on cancellation policies since they don't need to worry as much about passengers getting cancelled if they have a body to take their place.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Hey it's OK because if the company goes under, they can get a nice bailout with your tax dollars, just like every shit old school company out there that can't handle modern times.

 

[autumnleaf]

As they doubled the $400 offer to 800 I would have just seen how far I could take it. Yeah I'll get off the plane if you pay for my flight and throw in some spending money.

 

[NeoGold123]

the level of entitlement expressed is astounding.

How dare he expect to keep the seat on the flight he paid for. How dare he!

 

[Zabka]

Airlines are the fucking worst. Louisville is what, 5 hours away by car? Rent a car for them if no one volunteers.

 

[CrazyDude]

As they doubled the $400 offer to 800 I would have just seen how far I could take it. Yeah I'll get off the plane if you pay for my flight and throw in some spending money.

It's a voucher not cash that he would get.

 

[Malleymal]

Wait the people saying that the doctor is wrong..... they are joking right?! Oh ok cool

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Does this overbooking shit still happen if I'm booking from Europe and all my connecting flights depend on me being on the goddamn flight?

Do the consumer rights of the EU work in this scenario?

I wonder about America.

it does. i was on a united flight connecting to another flight and the check-in kiosk said the flight's overbooked, do you want an unspecified amount of cash to fly tomorrow.

 

[Principate]

As they doubled the $400 offer to 800 I would have just seen how far I could take it. Yeah I'll get off the plane if you pay for my flight and throw in some spending money.

That depends if this was the last time to see a dying family member before they passed away would you care about the extra money that would be passed your way.

 

[Ether_Snake]

They picked him cause he was alone, old poorly dressed asian, who they thought they could boss around and not have anyone care about.

 

[mAcOdIn]

...so since this company allows for its employees to take the seats of paying passengers, we should, as customers of this company, either let them do it and say wompwomp, or CHANGE THE LAW. Boy oh boy, you heard em, folks, it's just that easy.

No, I'm saying that since you know how it's going to play out if that's where you're going to make your stand do it with...Hmmm... I dunno dignity? I'm not saying he's wrong just that he acted stupid and childish. Sometimes children are in the right even if their behavior is childish.

But what I'm talking about is the industry as a whole, do we expect security to ignore demands from an airline to remove a passenger? Are we saying that planes should be grounded indefinitely so we can talk passengers out? Or do passenger demands outright overrule the airline? At some point in an industry like transportation you need to draw a line, that's the problem living in society.

I don't know how critical this doctor getting to his destination was, I don't know how critical those employees getting to their destination was, but I do not believe you can have a good transportation industry where everything goes and you take everyone at their word or we delay things willy nilly at behest of problem passengers. Even with the most generous system and civil protections there will be times a person needs to be forcefully removed.

To that end I still believe United was in the wrong, I just think the doctor was dumb too.

 

[MikeHattsu]

Does this overbooking shit still happen if I'm booking from Europe and all my connecting flights depend on me being on the goddamn flight?

Do the consumer rights of the EU work in this scenario?

I wonder about America.

What rights you have depends on what leg of the flight you're on and if you're traveling within Europe or not and in which direction with what airline. You can check your rights here:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm

 

[CTLance]

Cause vouchers cost them much less than actual money tbh

Well, aren't they glad. Not only did they completely and utterly embarrass themselves, I'm also very confident that they managed to incur losses well in excess of a very real cash-money-in-hand 800 bucks per person. And that's even before they get their pants sued off (or they pay for a settlement).

 

[Oxn]

A really shitty situation. I've never seen no one take the money. Not sure what this guys end game was after security was called.



If I had to guess I'd say another flight was depending on them so take off 4 so hundreds more can go.

So what happenes after you get the money? Do they put you on the next flight free?

 

[ItIsOkBro]

I'm sorry but I'm struggling to understand why over-booking exists.

If they have say 200 seats on a plane and they sell 200 seats and people have paid for them why do they then continue to sell more seats on that plane if there is no seats left to sell? Yes people might not turn up but if that seat is paid for already and the person does not turn up then that's their fault, why can they be allowed to sell it to someone else?

Do airlines not take money off people until they turn up at the airport or something?

why be content with selling 200 seats in a 200 seat flight when you can sell 210 seats and hope 10 cancel

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

They have literally decades of data on how many people are likely to cancel not just on flights in general but on a given route so they look at the data and play the odds that the cancellations will match historical trends under a threshold. Every business does this to handle staffing and predict call volume and stuff like that to some extent. Basically they look at trends and build a safety net and overbooking happens when the day bucks historical trends AND the safety net. Hotels also do this.

Yeah I can understand that and I'm sure from a business point of view it makes great sense but it is anti consumer as hell in practice. If they want to play those odds then they should be prepared to pay the price when it goes against them because at the end of the day all it accounts to is educated gambling.

They should have just kept upping the cash offer until they had 4 volunteers that would willingly leave the plane. If they want to use these overbooking tactics then they should set aside X% of the seats when the customer is booked be told that in the case of overbooking that customer WILL have to give up their seat and take another flight.

 

[Aselith]

problem passengers.

"I want to get what I paid for" = a problem passenger now lmao

 

[outunderthestars]

I don't understand why the amount of the incentive doesn't just keep going up. No takers at 800? How about $2,000 dollars worth of airline miles. No one at $2,000? $2,500. Eventually SOMEONE will take it.

This is what I usually do. I always plan a buffer of time in case a voucher is offered. I normally end up getting several thousand dollars worth of vouchers every year.

 

[HotHamBoy]

This might be the first time I've ever heard of an employee being given such priority over a customer. It's especially baffling given the cost and hassle of flying and the importance of departure/arrival for some people's schedules.

 

[mAcOdIn]

I've never seen someone double down so hard on their mistaken assumptions.

Lol, what assumption? My whole "assumption" was that neither I nor the crew have no way of knowing the authenticity of another man's word. This may be the first time I've ever been mocked for doubling down on admitting I don't know something as if I were really lying and actually know.

 

[jabuseika]

why be content with selling 200 seats in a 200 seat flight when you can sell 210 seats and hope 10 cancel

Cancel?

You can just drag them off.

...And then have an online defense force legitimize the act for you.

 

[Shaanyboi]

UA's business needs to be burned to the ground. How the fuck can anyone defend this shit?

 

[ClosingADoor]

So what happenes after you get the money? Do they put you on the next flight free?

Yes.

I'm sorry but I'm struggling to understand why over-booking exists.

If they have say 200 seats on a plane and they sell 200 seats and people have paid for them why do they then continue to sell more seats on that plane if there is no seats left to sell? Yes people might not turn up but if that seat is paid for already and the person does not turn up then that's their fault, why can they be allowed to sell it to someone else?

Do airlines not take money off people until they turn up at the airport or something?

Flying empty seats is a lot of waste, so they calculate how many people don't show up and gamble on that.

 

[SuperBowser]

No, I'm saying that since you know how it's going to play out if that's where you're going to make your stand do it with...Hmmm... I dunno dignity? I'm not saying he's wrong just that he acted stupid and childish. Sometimes children are in the right even if their behavior is childish.

We now understand why a doctor wanting to legally see his patients at all costs is stupid and childish. Thanks Internet Tough Guy.

 

[NeoGold123]

No, I'm saying that since you know how it's going to play out if that's where you're going to make your stand do it with...Hmmm... I dunno dignity? I'm not saying he's wrong just that he acted stupid and childish. Sometimes children are in the right even if their behavior is childish.

But what I'm talking about is the industry as a whole, do we expect security to ignore demands from an airline to remove a passenger? Are we saying that planes should be grounded indefinitely so we can talk passengers out? Or do passenger demands outright overrule the airline? At some point in an industry like transportation you need to draw a line, that's the problem living in society.

I don't know how critical this doctor getting to his destination was, I don't know how critical those employees getting to their destination was, but I do not believe you can have a good transportation industry where everything goes and you take everyone at their word or we delay things willy nilly at behest of problem passengers. Even with the most generous system and civil protections there will be times a person needs to be forcefully removed.

To that end I still believe United was in the wrong, I just think the doctor was dumb too.

I would have to imagine based on what we see here that his "stand" was sitting in the seat he paid for and saying "No, I won't leave" while airline employees called muscle who later bashed his head into an armrest. How childish to sit there and expect the thing you paid for to be given to you. If you think that sitting in protest is "undignified" then I would be fully interested in what constitutes a "diginified stand".

 

[The Jackdog]

ive read through this whole thread, how anyone can defend the airline to me is insane

 

[Squalor]

Uhhh, how does this not cause national outrage.

Because, as you can see in this thread, there is a defense force for everything.

People in this country like to act as though they're for the rights of the little guy. But the moment a situation arises that doesn't involve the actual individual, many people will side with the power structure.

 

[Bluenoser]

The employees were flight crew so if they weren't in Louisville then more than a few people wouldn't be getting where they want to go.

They gave it to the whole plane and offered plane ticket incentives and no one took. When that didn't work they did the picking themselves. I think the incentive should have kept going up as someone else mentioned. So they weren't necessarily "picking" on him. He just got the short straw.

He was let back on because after he got roughed up I imagine someone else waa like "this guy really needs to be in Louisville" and took the deal. Either that or they were weight restricted and the pilot played with the numbers or had bags removed. I doubt the latter because iirc Louisville United flights from ORD are probably XRJ which aren't weight restricted.

With all that said I'm not trying to say what they did I'd okay or right.

But if their next flight depends on employees that have no way to get there, you done fucked up as an airline, no? Employee seats to get to airports where they're needed should be built into the plan, not altered at the inconvenience of paying passengers.

United was already terrible in my book, but this takes the cake.

 

[boiled goose]

If they risk it with overbooking then companies should keep raising incentives till volunteers step up.

Using force here is beyond fucked.

Also, do this before people are in the plane

 

[Sarye]

And yet he was still able to get on the flight in the end. Guess he didn't HAVE to volunteer.

This is disgusting and anyone defending a company for this is moronic. Overbooking does happen but the whole policy exists for them to maximize profits and take a chance of passengers not showing up.

If they bet wrong they should eat the loss and keeping going higher in compensation until someone bites. Not forcibly remove a paying passenger. No matter what that is just not a good look.