Maybe one day, but not in a thread where the distinction is relevant. WW turn creatures into Undead, they don't change their biology. The wights don't shatter when you kill them and don't have the cold aura of the WW, why would the dragon corpse suddenly turn into a frost dragon? My money is in Viserion still being able to breathe fire.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Bounceounce
Member
Do you guys believe this is intentional or even a thing?
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...thing_three_battles_three_waters_three_dives/
The Jon one is pretty different than the other two though.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...thing_three_battles_three_waters_three_dives/
The Jon one is pretty different than the other two though.
Eh. NK turns men into Walkers by touching their forehead. He turns men into wights by lifting his arms all cool-like. For the dragon, he touched the head.
It's fucken magic. It does whatever they want it to.
Sanctuary
Member
By that logic, why wasn't the polar bear spewing frost or flying? Why didn't it shatter into ice cubes when hit by Jorah's dagger? You know, magic? I won't be surprised at all if the dragon starts breathing frost, but it will be stupid as hell anyway.
edit: That assumes the bear wasn't just a wight. It probably was though.
/shrug
Combination of CG expense and that they're useless on a frozen lake. Then again, going back to what I want from these guys, fashion the giants with some weirwoodbows and they would've destroyed Jon and co. from afar. And I still think they'd fuck up a dragon too with those.
chicken_pasta
Banned
You're giving D&D WAAAAY too much credit.
In the 'Making the Episode' bit or whatever it's called, they made it pretty clear that the entire episode -- if not the entire season - was structured around that blue dragon eye opening and reverse written from there. I'd find it hard to believe that it was anything more than 'jumping in water is a super convenient escape' and Jamie's usually in a warmer climate, Theon's generally out to sea as an Ironborn, and it's cold in the North where Starks hang out.
Wouldn't make sense for a dead dragon to breathe fire. The whole point of the white walkers is that they're icey cold.
The dragon will breath flames. But they'll be blue flames that turn things to ice.
"It's magic" isn't the catch-all explanation for breaking logic you seem to think it is. Internal consistency is still a thing. It doesn't have to make sense in our world, but it should still follow the established rules in the GoT world. If it doesn't it's poor writing, magic or not.
The Artisan
Member
If he breathes blue fire though, that's even hotter than yellow fire. The Knight king will kill his own army faster than Jon & Dany could.
Blue fire would be confusing. Half the audience would think it was ice.
Bounceounce
Member
Oh I'm not saying that it's true, didn't even write that, I'm just liking the idea of a thematic link.
The NK is a greenseer and was having the giants drag those chains there so they could use them at the end of the episode. It's obvious!
Better still be holding the door.
The Artisan
Member
blue fire is real though, i don't think i've ever seen a whole flame lit blue but when you're cooking stuff the bottom is always the hottest. blue stars are hotter than yellow stars like our Sun.
You know I'm rewatching Battle of the Bastards and the Loot Train Attack and I think this last episode's biggest flaw among many is that the direction was just bad. The writing has been atrocious for quite a while (I mean, they are called the freaking "battle of the bastards" and "loot train attack" just to start), but those two set pieces made up for it somehow, as inane the writing was to get us there for a moment you forgot about it. Small details make all the difference, Jon almost drowning in dead bodies, Jaime looking at the ashes. It's really freaking hard to keep those moments dramatic and not cheesy, but the directors pulled it off more or less, the frozen lake attack was just urgh, a freaking dragon dies and it doesn't feel at all special, just cheesy... and yes it is also officially called the freaking "frozen lake battle", these writers are inspired as hell.
Which is weird, considering the stuff he did with both Baelor and Fire and Blood in Season 1, and those four chapters in Season 2.
Must've been his time doing D-tier Hollywood smack.
Yeah, I heard the "Alan Taylor is a hack" thing before the episode even aired, which I was puzzled at because he directed great episodes before... than I checked his Wikipedia page to find out he directed Thor: The Dark World :/ Maybe he's just better with non-hollywoodesque action material?
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Yes but D&D wrote and you can't fix people who simply don't care anymore.
Are we acting like directing is the same as writing? I mean most people only notice direction, if it's good. Thor: the dark world had more problems to do with the script.
Sapochnik did. But to be fair, Hardhome, BotB and The Winds of Winter (S6 finale) was above-par stuff for D&D.
I think there's a bit of bleed over when it comes to directing set pieces in GOT. Neil Marshall had a bunch of input on his episodes.
ETA: At the very least Alan Taylor was in a position during the prep for this episode to say "Hey, how about we write a line for Benjen to say that isn't dumb as fuck?" or "What if the Night King changes his target from Drogon to Viserion because Viserion is about to fire blast him?"
The Artisan
Member
But dragons playing by special rules *is* consistent. Bears are just animals. Dragons have human-level (or better) intelligence and start off with their own magic to boot. It's totally fine to have WW magic interact with Dragon magic and corrupt fire-breath into ice-breath.
I've seen so many only liners all around the internet that can fix stuff, Benjen saying "I would only slow you down" fixes the insanity of his sacrifice, somewhat.
I watched it again tonight and it's a frustrating episode. There's a GREAT episode in there somewhere, but it's hampered by putting spectacle before writing and basic logic. There were some easy fixes but they were neglected for whatever reason.
I've enjoyed the season but it's mostly just cumshot.
I've enjoyed the season but it's mostly just cumshot.
Yeah there's a lot of this episode that felt very "first draft".
The Artisan
Member
I wrote this in the other thread, (if you feel like reading) tell me if you vibe with it
Nahh this sounds pretty cheesy to me. A vague feeling is no better than Benjen showing up outta nowhere and pulling a Saw Gerrera. To start, they just needed to spend more time showing Gendry's journey back to Eastwatch to show how arduous it was to run that distance in those conditions.
Re: Dany, either have her follow them to Eastwatch or pull some Bran bullshit to get her in the air. He's capable of instant surveillance and communication. He's a god damn cheat code. Use him!
What? They're both obviously counterclockwise.
My answer for Gendry would be that there should be no Gendry. He's there because of fan service and nothing more. He's a cool guy, but that's not enough reason to shoehorn in another character this late in the game.
Yeah, other than the obvious problems, pacing has been an issue all season and the scenes are all over the place. The Hound only exists now to rattle off one liners for reddit memes.
I've said before and I doubt I'm the only one, but I wish Jamie had been captured (fucking Bronn dies) by Dany and is sent to Eastwatch to help find the wight to convince HIM. Bran should have been involved, maybe warging into different animals to help find a scouting party near Eastwatch. Still dangerous but not outrageously stupid. They should have bypassed ALL of the reunion shit in KL.
As silly as the episode is, it's sillier that any of those charcters would be found dead in KL.
Even if they could just physically break the wall, what of the magic runes that hint at a more magical barrier to the walkers? They would have to literally destroy all of it I imagine.
Given that the wall has magical defenses seeped into its walls, it doesn't make sense for a magical creature who was resurrected using magic using magic breath to try and melt it.
The Artisan
Member
well, even if the vague feeling were to be the case, it'd have played out far more eloquently than just the way I typed it out. But Bran not being the episode is its own fucking problem considering the stupidass Winterfell drama.
But I also didn't mind Benjen showing up. I think the show just wanted us to be surprised because people were wondering a. the last time we saw Benjen was when he left Meera & Bran so when will see him again and b. (which dates backs for seasons) when will Jon see Benjen again and they kill 2 birds with 1 stone technically and left an element of surprise since we don't know what Jon's gonna do while he's dying from hypothermia and an army zombies are running towards him again
I will admit that yes Gendry being suddenly back is absolutely rubbing off as fan service, but come on...he was a good character back in the day and they wrote reasons to bring him back. The first time he met with Jon, that could be the start of a great new alliance and callback to Ned & Rob being together.
Dany capturing Jaime and sending him to the wall is an interesting idea. Although since Tyrion was there with her I'm sure he would just want her to bring him back with them to Dragonstone. But yeah, pacing of this season was the worst. That's a given. Episode 5? Jesus. Pacing was practically the only damn problem with that episode. Had it been 2 hours instead of one it'd probably be fine.
StopMakingSense
Member
No no it's covered by Newton's third law of magical thermodynamics.
It's obviously what's going to happen. And why doesn't magic destroying magic make sense? What?
Sanctuary
Member
So what would have been the point when they previously attacked Castle Black then if they would not have been able to go beyond it anyway? Were they all just going to camp there for a few months or years, tearing the wall down? I still don't know why people could turn into wights inside Castle Black either.
Already posted this, but even those that wrote the script thought he was a goner too!
So much fucking ego-stroking, my god.
Personally, I didn't think he was going to die. They built him up too much as comic relief, and with how bad that episode had been going up to that point, I seriously expected him to be saved. Sandor had to be redeemed you know? To me it was completely obvious what was going to happen.
elrechazado
Banned
Intentionally hacky writing that makes it easy to save a character while giving false suspense that they are dead.
It wouldn't really have to just be a vague feeling.
She had a vision in season 2 that she would end up at the wall. Perhaps she could have been in the caves looking at the white walker paintings and then recounts the vision she had to Tyrion. And based on her vision, her fear for Jorah and Jon, and a gut feeling while looking at the white walker paintings, she decides on her own that she needs to see it for herself to see if it's all true. And then it turns out that her gut feeling heroics come at the cost of her child.
It would be slightly thematic too, given that she also saw her dead child with Drogo once she went past the wall in her vision. It's a better character moment than needing Gendry to send a raven.
m_shortpants
Member
Eh. I see it. Apparently GRRM told them about Hodor. Time fuckery and weirwood net is an explanation for it happening since they've established it. I mean, seems like The Night King is a super warg. Would be better if it was Bran the Builder -> Current Bran too.
It's poetry.
Atraveller
Banned
The Night Watch has arrowheads, but I think the writers have forgotten about them.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That's where Brans Brand connection with the Night King comes in.
Bran will go to the wall, drawn there...and the NIght King will be on the other side. Then Bran will try to warg into the Night King, but the ensuing psychic battle will force Bran to shut down the Night Kings mind, and the lingering fractured pieces of the Night Kings mind will have corrupted Bran, and his lashback of power will render the wall destroyed. And Bran, having been corrupted fully by the Night King, will reawaken as Onslaught!
Bounceounce
Member
Gendry's had a consistent role in the books so they probably had to find a way to bring him back in the show, but it just doesn't work.
Of course not, they literally made up that plot point this season to have an easy way out later in season 8 where they kill the Night King and the entire army just evaporates.