Well except for Relapse. Sans that Beautiful song.
But that album was largely panned, so yeah.
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Uproxx: Vince Staples Eminem And Redman Comparison Spark Debate On Race And Aging
- Thread starter Mr. X
- Start date
Well except for Relapse. Sans that Beautiful song.
But that album was largely panned, so yeah.
BackLogJoe
Member
I think it's a lot deeper than that. Just like black rappers describe living a life that I cannot understand because I'm white, and really hits home for black folks, Eminem resonates with me because my parents were abusive trailer trash, and at 41 years old I'm still running from.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
"corny" is the most obnoxious and overused term when discussing hip-hop in 2017. Especially on this forum. Seeing it in that article made me cringe.
Ninja Scooter
Member
He's right. Eminem being white afforded him a much broader appeal and helped him stand out in the genre. That's not to say he's not incredibly talented, but if he were black, he wouldn't have gotten air play on rock/alt stations in his prime, much like the Beastie Boys before him. And I think Em would probably be the first to tell you this.
Angelus Errare
Banned
"without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image"
Jay Z
Nas
Bun B
Juicy J
E40
Snoop
Plenty of old heads make it without the washed label. I've heard more people call Em washed due to the decline in interest from the hip hop crowd and in real life.
Yeah, but that's like saying Eminem's not alt-right, but #1 rapper with alt right. Doesn't add anything to the conversation
After reading the article The age discussion is interesting hip hop fans especially have an awful reputation for throwing older artists in the bushes.
A lot of us don't love and appreciate our hip hop elders and people who paved the way we simply move onto the next hotness.
Now a lot of that is down to cataloger and longevity a group like Pink Floyd can still tour well into their 70's and still pack out arenas. I could only name a handful of hip hop artists who could do that.
Em's crossover appeal to white people means that his seen in that kind of esteem. I'm going to say Em could still tour at 50 and sell out huge arenas.
A lot of us don't love and appreciate our hip hop elders and people who paved the way we simply move onto the next hotness.
Now a lot of that is down to cataloger and longevity a group like Pink Floyd can still tour well into their 70's and still pack out arenas. I could only name a handful of hip hop artists who could do that.
Em's crossover appeal to white people means that his seen in that kind of esteem. I'm going to say Em could still tour at 50 and sell out huge arenas.
computers putin'
Member
Its been a common comparison for years
CopperPuppy
Member
The difference being Em just shit on them while Fantano rubs elbows with them.
Let me know when I've added enough to the conversation.
Also, Vince is right.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yup, but you tend to be called washed when you're 40+ and still talking about raping your mom and shit.
Like can we talk about that? Folks will deadass say they can't relate to rap but will then turn around and talk about how much they love Eminem.
Like oh word? You can't relate with wanting to have a better life, or struggle...but you can definitely relate to wanting to rape your mom?...I see...
KidGalactus
Member
Eminem might not entirely deserve the level of elevation he's received, but it's not like he chose to be the great white hope of rappers.
It's probably true that, if he were black, he works have been largely ignored like similarly styled 'cartoon' acts like Fu Shnickens, or Red Man, or Das Efx. For what it's worth, however, I'm glad he's using his platform to potentially make things better, instead of pretending that nothing's wrong.
It's probably true that, if he were black, he works have been largely ignored like similarly styled 'cartoon' acts like Fu Shnickens, or Red Man, or Das Efx. For what it's worth, however, I'm glad he's using his platform to potentially make things better, instead of pretending that nothing's wrong.
crimzonflame
Member
Redman is in my top 5. So underrated.
See
People complain that white people aren't doing their part, and then one of the most well-known white people in the world does his part and says something, in extremely blunt terms that can't be misinterpreted or spun for anything else, and people complain he's getting too much attention. And then Vince Staples turns the conversation into something else entirely. Now it's no longer about Trump. It's about white privilege in hip hop. Something that Eminem acknowledged in one of his songs years before it was popular to talk about white privilege.
Vince Staples just pulled a Trump. Except while Trump used the NFL to draw attention towards himself, Vince Staples turned the conversation away from Trump.
Way to fucking go.
Vince Staples just pulled a Trump. Except while Trump used the NFL to draw attention towards himself, Vince Staples turned the conversation away from Trump.
Way to fucking go.
Yeah this article is mostly right. The amount of hype for the freestyle is lame AF and it's obviously because hip-hop as a genre is pre-judged by most people. The raps only praised because Eminem gets a pass by people who don't really keep up with the music.
The people putting it on a pedestal are mostly not really hip-hop listeners... even the most casual listener should be aware of the much better protest music from the last year.
Eminem as a whole is talented, and has classic albums, but the quality of his music in the last 5 years is just straight up bad. It's a thing where a specitic type of listener assumes that fast raps = skills, so he still gets praise by just reusing the same rhyme scheme for 10 minutes.
Tbh his shtick is super outdated and is so far away from how unique and different a lot of the styles in rap today are.
Don't get me wrong, if we're only accounting for his legendary run 10~ years ago, Eminem is easily in my top 10 of all time, but the constant smug people who like to act like he's the best ever just really bothers me.
It's **always** people who come across as prejudiced, their opinion is obviously coming from a place of low information. They feel so proud to say that Eminem is the best, when clearly they're not really familiar with so much rap. It just makes me feel like there are ulterior motives when they say that.
The people putting it on a pedestal are mostly not really hip-hop listeners... even the most casual listener should be aware of the much better protest music from the last year.
Eminem as a whole is talented, and has classic albums, but the quality of his music in the last 5 years is just straight up bad. It's a thing where a specitic type of listener assumes that fast raps = skills, so he still gets praise by just reusing the same rhyme scheme for 10 minutes.
Tbh his shtick is super outdated and is so far away from how unique and different a lot of the styles in rap today are.
Don't get me wrong, if we're only accounting for his legendary run 10~ years ago, Eminem is easily in my top 10 of all time, but the constant smug people who like to act like he's the best ever just really bothers me.
It's **always** people who come across as prejudiced, their opinion is obviously coming from a place of low information. They feel so proud to say that Eminem is the best, when clearly they're not really familiar with so much rap. It just makes me feel like there are ulterior motives when they say that.
Not ignored, but I feel he would have went the way of other late 90's rappers like DMX, Busta, etc. Ones who blew up big, but then after an album or two, went to the wayside. You see them for 20-30 bucks now or they close at night at Summerfest.
old manatee
Banned
Thank you.
Eminem: "Trump is a racist who used Colin Kaepernick's NFL protest to distract us from his awful handling of Puerto Rico. Also, my fans who support him can fuck off too."
Vince Staples: "But what about Redman's career?"
crimzonflame
Member
I remember when kids in my high school were like, 'who's Reggie?'
I think comparing who's song protested 'better' is pointless and as is the way with people who hate trump it reroutes the conversation so people on the same page instead bicker among themselves about pointless stuff.
The media is attuned to whiteness, that should be clear to anyone watching, to deny this is to shout into the void forever.
Em as a white man can get under the skin of some of these bozo's a lot more than 100 black rappers. As harsh and sad as it is to say.
The media is attuned to whiteness, that should be clear to anyone watching, to deny this is to shout into the void forever.
Em as a white man can get under the skin of some of these bozo's a lot more than 100 black rappers. As harsh and sad as it is to say.
The article isn't wrong. And the freestyle WAS garbage. But it still deserved the attention, because Em is uniquely positioned to criticize Trump, both because of his whiteness and because of his fan base.
Yeah, I guarantee that Eminem has a ton of Trumpers in his fan base. The thing is, though, being a GOAT white rapper makes the man durable as fuck. I'm sure he lost a few fans but a) he's already cemented his place, right or wrong, among the all-time greats and b) he's white, which has gotten him out of a lot of jams in the past with problematic lyrics.
It's the Elvis thing. At the end of the day white people would rather hear black music from another white person, and white parents would rather have their kids listening to a white rapper than a black one. Disappointing when there are better black artists who are ignored, but it is what it is.
Yeah, I guarantee that Eminem has a ton of Trumpers in his fan base. The thing is, though, being a GOAT white rapper makes the man durable as fuck. I'm sure he lost a few fans but a) he's already cemented his place, right or wrong, among the all-time greats and b) he's white, which has gotten him out of a lot of jams in the past with problematic lyrics.
It's the Elvis thing. At the end of the day white people would rather hear black music from another white person, and white parents would rather have their kids listening to a white rapper than a black one. Disappointing when there are better black artists who are ignored, but it is what it is.
computers putin'
Member
This actually a really good observation, nade me look at the situation in a different light.
No, I'm not the first king of controversy
I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley
To do black music so selfishly
And use it to get myself wealthy
No this started because white fragility didn't like Vince joking on Em.
Barkley's Justice
Member
Eminem is mostly viewed as old, washed up and corny. He just was so widely popular that even a diminished profile is still pretty high. I don't know that comparing him to Redman, who was popular but not to the degree of an Eminem, is fair.
Can the same be said of Jay-Z vs Eminem? Seems like a more appropriate comparison.
I think people were more surprised that Eminem put out something that's not garbage in 2017.
Can the same be said of Jay-Z vs Eminem? Seems like a more appropriate comparison.
I think people were more surprised that Eminem put out something that's not garbage in 2017.
This... is a huge stretch. It's great that Eminem did the freestyle, has anyone denied that? You can have multiple conversations. The elephant in the room about how exactly this freestyle blew up is a discussion that definitely should be had.
I don't think anyone who is aware of Vince Staples existence was served new information from the rap, so should we just kind of clap and then move on? Of course not, there are other aspects of the whole situation that should be talked about.
If you follow Vince enough you see that this is par for the course, nearly on a daily basis he tweets his opinions on various topics and half of them go viral one way or another. This just happens to be one of many.
Ninja Scooter
Member
You are missing the point of the comparison. The fact that Redman was never as popular as Em is the point. They are similar artists in terms of talent, but Eminem was white which gave him broader appeal.
n00bsauce87
Member
I mean people are assuming that if he was black, his skills would diminish. So what are we really saying? That we are admitting that his skin color makes him a better rapper than where he ought to be?
So is the measuring stick skills or commercial success? Then Mos Def or Talib Kweli would be on everyone's top ten list
So is the measuring stick skills or commercial success? Then Mos Def or Talib Kweli would be on everyone's top ten list
Ninja Scooter
Member
That's not at all what anyone is saying. In fact it's actually really fucking bizarre that this is what you pulled from the conversation.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
You can talk about both. Vince isn't changing the conversation.
He is right about people making a bigger deal about his verse because of his race. But it doesn't take away from the importance of him doing that verse in the current climate where a lot of his fans probably need to hear someone they idolize tell them they are fuckheads for being trump supporters.
He is right that his race made him a bigger star than he would have been if he wasn't white, eminem himself has said as much over a decade ago.
He is completely off the mark comparing him to redman, who is one of my favorite rappers but is not anything remotely like eminem besides being funny.
Eminem went full cornball years ago and has failed to make me like his work for a long time. But the quest to rewrite music history and shit on the fact he was, at one time, a monumental part of hip hop history who was an immensely talented artist is straight buffoonery and fucking embarrassing.
He is right that his race made him a bigger star than he would have been if he wasn't white, eminem himself has said as much over a decade ago.
He is completely off the mark comparing him to redman, who is one of my favorite rappers but is not anything remotely like eminem besides being funny.
Eminem went full cornball years ago and has failed to make me like his work for a long time. But the quest to rewrite music history and shit on the fact he was, at one time, a monumental part of hip hop history who was an immensely talented artist is straight buffoonery and fucking embarrassing.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I mean those were some good bars.
But yea...the fawning over the performance is interesting given he isn't the first, nor will he be the last to spit hot bars about Donald. Of course, Em has his own special fanbase so higher levels of reaction are fair and expected.
But yea...the fawning over the performance is interesting given he isn't the first, nor will he be the last to spit hot bars about Donald. Of course, Em has his own special fanbase so higher levels of reaction are fair and expected.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
What if 'cringing' is corny?
---
Em is a great talent and he's accepted that he has privilege. I wouldn't say that he is a top 10 talent because he's white. That's stupid. No one elevated vanilla ice. He gets play because he's white but that's America.
But Em has been great on many albums and features and that's not anything but talent.
This was also crazy blatant when Beasties had Intergalactic as a hit. Rock stations played it, but not any other hip hop.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Vince is right, there is nothing to argue about. Not only was the freestyle "not good" on the basic levels freestyles are usually judged on (delivery, wit, hot lines, etc), the reaction to it is one of many examples of white privilege. The issue isn't that the the freestyle has been viewed many times - Eminem is one of the most popular rappers in the world, of course it was going to go viral; Jay-Z, Kanye, Kendrick, etc could have done something similar and also received breathless coverage. The issue is the tone of the coverage, which not only hails Eminem but pretends like no one in rap is doing what he's doing, or capable of it.
Eminem has not only been making tepid to outright terrible music for nearly 15 years, he has shown little to no growth as an artist. He's rapping over the same basic production (in fact you could argue his production is worse now) about the same subjects. Namely, drugs, violence (against women), and various forms of childish humor. His "technical" masterly largely boils down to rapping like Redman or Kool G Rap or Nas/AZ.
He's a good guy who does a lot for the community in Detroit, so I don't want to make it seem like I'm shitting on him personally. The problem is moreso his fans and the media. It's amazing how many (most?) of his fans are proud of not listening to any rap outside of Em, yet they pronounce him the greatest rapper ever. Fuck outta here.
Eminem has not only been making tepid to outright terrible music for nearly 15 years, he has shown little to no growth as an artist. He's rapping over the same basic production (in fact you could argue his production is worse now) about the same subjects. Namely, drugs, violence (against women), and various forms of childish humor. His "technical" masterly largely boils down to rapping like Redman or Kool G Rap or Nas/AZ.
He's a good guy who does a lot for the community in Detroit, so I don't want to make it seem like I'm shitting on him personally. The problem is moreso his fans and the media. It's amazing how many (most?) of his fans are proud of not listening to any rap outside of Em, yet they pronounce him the greatest rapper ever. Fuck outta here.
Who gives a shit about a wack ass freestyle shitting on Trump from Eminem? It's eminem, not Taylor swift. 1. It was wack 2. That shit is such a low bar for someone that this is expected of to begin with, this is Eminem, it's par for the course. He wrote mosh and white America. Why wouldn't hip hop heads turn their attention to the consumption of the freestyle and its unwarranted adulation. You got liberals like olberman lauding it while dismissing hip-hop as a mode of resistance. We can give some props while criticizing the consumption because white supremacy undergirds all this shit. You're reaching.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Eminem was the first rapper with something to say before Macklemore.
In all seriousness, I checked out after Ems Stay Wide Awake, where he just raps about raping women for whatever reason.
In all seriousness, I checked out after Ems Stay Wide Awake, where he just raps about raping women for whatever reason.
Bounceounce
Member
I've been studying Eminem's music this year, he's a near garbage artist and his rapping/songwriting has never been on the level of the other greats (Nas, Jay, Lupe, Kendrick etc etc), even back to his supposed classics, MMLP being the only one that comes close to the great label.
So it's no surprise that he's only capable of putting out trash in 2017 and recent years, he's never had it, it's a sham.
So it's no surprise that he's only capable of putting out trash in 2017 and recent years, he's never had it, it's a sham.
Jay's always been more talented than Eminem and was more consistent even in his down years.
The freestyle was good, symbolically, because of Em's reach. It wasn't particularly impressive, technically.
Vince speaks truth and there's nothing really to be angry over. Race is absolutely a factor in how messages are received and perpetuated. I don't think he's implying it's a bad thing that Em's freestyle got a lot of exposure, but he's pointing out the (obvious) fact that black voices resonate less. That's worth acknowledging and discussing.
Vince speaks truth and there's nothing really to be angry over. Race is absolutely a factor in how messages are received and perpetuated. I don't think he's implying it's a bad thing that Em's freestyle got a lot of exposure, but he's pointing out the (obvious) fact that black voices resonate less. That's worth acknowledging and discussing.
old manatee
Banned
Rock And Roll
Member
Veering off topic here but that was way back when the song came out, I don't think I've heard it since. That was the only Em song I ever heard on the edge and I think it was just because it had a guitar and was a huge single.
They also played Hey Ya a lot, which I still hear sometimes while flipping through stations. Also a huge single which featured a guitar. Rock stations can be pretty stupid about what they play and why. Usually it boils down to a guitar.
102.1 has been terrible for a solid decade now.
Bounceounce
Member
What black rappers have done what Eminem did that have a similarly sized fanbase and have been ignored?
When I first heard it my expectation was that everyone was going to rag on Em for being old and stale because I thought it was weak and sounded like shit. I was totally wrong and everyone was lauding it and that was disappointing given the only thing good about it was the intent. Good on Em for standing on the right side of the issue and being willing to say something, but it was horrible and I agree that if anyone else did this it would be ignored and if it wasn't it would be trashed.
That is the important part here. I think some of the people here are getting hung up on somehow arguing with Eminem super fans instead of hitting the actual topic. Vince Staples would probably be laughing at people here.
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