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US: $99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle coming with two-year subscription ($15 a month)
- Thread starter VOOK
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lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
And?, you get what you pay for, having a mobile contract isn't just about buying a fancy phone monthly, you also get free minutes, data, texts etc, the service plan is very important.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
What's there to be sad about? If people consider it good value, and many do welcome similar monthly payments for other goods, then it's great to have that option as well, in addition to all the others.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Well yeah... if you can't afford something non-essential like an Xbox, you probably shouldn't buy it.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
One could argue going by the math in this thread the difference between this deal and buying it all outright is $40. In which case since you aren't giving up all of your cash up front you could invest the money you wouldn't have to spend up front and make up the $40 difference + some actually if you played your cards right.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I mean, if we're getting all theoretical up in this piece, one could just not subscribe to XBL, pocket that money, and then their cards would have been played pretty damn well, I'd say.
This doesn't seem like a bad deal. It only costs $40 more and you're getting something for that as well(One year longer warranty and possibly some other services included).
This isn't a ripoff at all. Still, cellphone contracts have baggage with them that comes along with the benefits. It will be interesting to see how that effects Microsoft. Even if the terms of these contracts are reasonable, they could get painted with the same brush.
This isn't a ripoff at all. Still, cellphone contracts have baggage with them that comes along with the benefits. It will be interesting to see how that effects Microsoft. Even if the terms of these contracts are reasonable, they could get painted with the same brush.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
This isn't a rental. You're own the console at the end of the two year period. You're simply paying for the console and LIVE as a staggered package.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
$15 a month? No way.
No it's not in this case. It's a scam to hook people into mandatory payments and debt. Plain and simple.
And people will fall for it because they're morons. Especially us Americans, we love getting into debt.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I was going off the basis that you'd be getting the exact same product and services over the same time period.
snoopeasystreet
Member
Between this and the Star Wars bundle getting $50 knocked off it, could we see a 360 price cut next week?
JetBlackPanda
Member
The idea is fine.. But it seems crazy to offer this at the tail end of the generation. We will probably have the next gen systems in 2 years right????
The overall difference when factoring in time value of money and what have you ends up being like $10 or $15 after the two years. Nobody is really getting screwed here.
infinityBCRT
Member
So the deal isn't as bad as it seems at the outlook.
Currently:
Xbox 360 4gb + Kinect = $300
Xbox Live over 2 years = 2x$60 = $120
Total = $420
This bundle:
Xbox 360 4gb + Kinect = $100
Xbox Live + extra services (??) over 2 years = 24 x $15 = $360
Total = $460
If the extra services actually are going to be something that regular gold subscribers don't get then it could be a good deal.
Currently:
Xbox 360 4gb + Kinect = $300
Xbox Live over 2 years = 2x$60 = $120
Total = $420
This bundle:
Xbox 360 4gb + Kinect = $100
Xbox Live + extra services (??) over 2 years = 24 x $15 = $360
Total = $460
If the extra services actually are going to be something that regular gold subscribers don't get then it could be a good deal.
They tack on a pretty penny to your monthly fee due to the subsidies. In fact, it is worse in the mobile world(at least in the US) because that monthly fee does not go down even if you do buy an unsubsidized phone.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
It's a massive ripoff, a contract should benefit you, otherwise it's a loan with an upfront cost.
Yeah perhaps in the US you might be right, over here in the UK you can get some stunning mobile contracts.
What does being mainstream have to do with the fact that it's a bad idea to buy toys if you can't afford them upfront, especially if spreading out the payments causes you to pay more in the end? Or is your point that the average person is terrible with money?
$99 + ($15*24) = $459, $99 up front
$300 + ($60*2) = $420, $360 up front (this is if you buy both the system and both years of XBLG at full price... I guess we should also assume that the average person who is bad with money is also too lazy to get any sort of discount). There is also the added benefit of not having to put your CC# into XBL.
Sho_Nuff82 said:
I wasn't literally calling this a rental. Just that the same people who think this is a great deal probably think that other deferred payment plans that end up soaking money away from you are a great deal.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I hope this allows them to max out specs for the 720, if they have this model works out as another option. I would still buy the console outright personally though.
sucks if this means no 720 untill 2014 though.
sucks if this means no 720 untill 2014 though.
The cell phone model finally makes its way to game consoles. Is this a test-run of for Durango's model? Cheap hardware that's subsidized via a multi-year LIVE contract?
If this is how Durango will be sold, I can't really blame them for trying this, but if Sony and Nintendo and Apple offer similar "living room hub" experiences for free or with no contract, it could be a disaster.
If this is how Durango will be sold, I can't really blame them for trying this, but if Sony and Nintendo and Apple offer similar "living room hub" experiences for free or with no contract, it could be a disaster.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
If you buy a 360 off the shelf these days how long of a warranty direct from MS do you get? 1 year or 2 years?
This deal gives you 2, and I don't know what they current warranty period from MS is like.
This deal gives you 2, and I don't know what they current warranty period from MS is like.
It's actually a bit more complicated that that. Your equations negate the time value of money that should be applied here as well.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
How is it any different than, for instance, taking a car loan and paying it back each month?
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
I still think for this to be successful they need to provide you with something a bit more akin to Playstation plus, give the consumer an incentive beyond just a cheap entry point.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Pfff... Xbox 720 is not backwards compatible with Xbox 360 Live, fool.
infinityBCRT
Member
I think the only reason time value of money is a factor here is because the 360's value will be decreased once the next Xbox comes out. But if they have a similar deal like this at the start of the next generation, this type of deal would be well worth it IMO.
alexandros
Banned
I really don't understand why so many people are so negative about this, and it's simply hilarious to see some people claim that "gah, dumb consumer sheep will be suckered into buying it".
Let's look at some facts. What it this deal about, basically? Subsidising the initial cost of the console hardware and making up the difference in other ways, through subscription to a service. So... how is that any different than the traditional console model?
When you buy a console at launch, you usually get hardware that is sold under cost. Then the hardware maker makes up the difference (and much, much more) through the selling of games and services. This is why a 360 or a PS3 was much cheaper at launch than a PC of equivalent power.
You have no right to call people sheep, or dumb, or whatever else because they might choose to buy this bundle. They're doing the exact same thing that you have been doing for years, apparently without even realizing it.
The only difference is that they'll pay this money for a service, while you pay it for games. Get off your high horse and realise that choice is a good thing.
Let's look at some facts. What it this deal about, basically? Subsidising the initial cost of the console hardware and making up the difference in other ways, through subscription to a service. So... how is that any different than the traditional console model?
When you buy a console at launch, you usually get hardware that is sold under cost. Then the hardware maker makes up the difference (and much, much more) through the selling of games and services. This is why a 360 or a PS3 was much cheaper at launch than a PC of equivalent power.
You have no right to call people sheep, or dumb, or whatever else because they might choose to buy this bundle. They're doing the exact same thing that you have been doing for years, apparently without even realizing it.
The only difference is that they'll pay this money for a service, while you pay it for games. Get off your high horse and realise that choice is a good thing.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I don't know why you're turning this into a debate over whether this is a fiscally responsible method of purchase, it's not my intention to argue the value to the consumer, only the method's value to the consumer. It works. People like it because they can get something now and for relatively little, depending on their monthly discretionary spending level or desire for maximum convenience. Nothing is new or revealed in doing some simple math the average person does to pay their bills or work out which contract is better. People aren't functionally fucking braid-dead, guys. They choose based on their own personal sense of value, just like anyone.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Some financing is skeezy, some isn't. When the interest is relatively low, or the burden the interest imposes is less than the burden it lifts by amortizing costs, that's not skeezy. When the interest is relatively high, or the burden the interest imposes is higher than the burden it lifts by amortizing costs, that is skeezy. When the interest is so high that it vastly eclipses the equivalent of letting the balance float on a credit card for the duration of the purchase, then it borders on usurious and predatory if not legally than ethically--and it's directed specifically at people whose stupid decisions have wrecked their credit and encourages them to make even stupider decisions.
It's relatively easy to take twenty different financing propositions and lay them out on a continuum based on what I just said.
somuchwater
Member
It's the opposite. It makes the up-front price affordable to a lot more people while also helping to increase the user base at a rate unusual for the end of a generation.
It's a smart move by Microsoft. If GAF doesn't like it, it's probably a good sign that the market Microsoft is pursuing with this will.
Edit: Also, there is no reason to suspect that this pricing model will replace the traditional full-cost model. MS aren't insane; they aren't about to drive away customers and reduce sales for no good reason.
maquiladora
Member
Because it sets a precedent. I dont want to live in a world where game consoles have early termination fees and monthly payments, online or not.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
THIS is the stupidest idea you've heard THIS generation?
Also...this isn't a stupid idea in the slightest.
Low cost of entry with a long tail for revenue relying on the fact that consumers tend to be lazy and once you get them in a contract...you own them.
Wait until they start giving Xbox 360s away for free but with a three year commitment. Your poor brain will stroke out.
The screwing going on is no worse than what cell phone users are experiencing or a number of other customers in other industries. If people could step outside of the whole, "WAT!?!?! THIS IS NOT HOW YOU PLAY VIDEOGAMEZ!"
They are offering a product at an initially low price-point in the hopes to hook the customer for more money over the long term. If you think this is "screwing" you really shouldn't look at what's going on in other industries. You'll be tempted to throw yourself off your roof in despair.
I'm pretty sure it's a 1 year warranty.
Warranty Period" for Xbox 360 S, means 1 year from the date You purchased it; and for Accessories, means 90 days from the date You purchased it.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I think we actually basically agree, then. I realize that this is the way things are. I'm just saying that it's stupid.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
But this doesn't seem like a bad deal at all, especially when you consider some services might be included in the package.
You will live in a world where there are no consoles, just services, and relatively soon.
DO NOT WANT! Oh God, this is a possible reality I never even imagined... could things get this bad?
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
So depending upon how much an extra year warranty is you might actually be paying close to the same amount either way just over time verses up front provided you decide to get an extended warranty for an extra year.
I don't remember calling anyone a sheep, but the difference is that you can get an identical product + service for less money if you don't pay monthly. If I had a choice to buy individual games for $60 up front or $10 upfront with 6 additional monthly $10 charges, I'll pay the $60 every time.
There have been a lot math failures in this thread. As you rightly point out this great deal from a financial standpoint. Anyone who says otherwise is clueless. MS is giving you a 2 year loan with an implied interest rate which is a little over 5%. For most consumers, that interest rate is far below the 15%-25% interest rate that they pay on their credit cards.
I like how they claim the 360 costs $1025 and you're only paying $145 in interest.
Edit: Never mind, TPC is some form of insurance. Still don't understand how what they do is legal.
Sad but true.
I wonder if they will do what they did when they transitioned to the 360. You can only have your gamertag associated with one xbox, making the orig online service obsolete.
I can see where they would give me MS points for the 3 years I have paid off in advance and tell me to shove it. Here, buy an overpriced full game with those points instead
SlaughterX
Banned
So I wonder how many people here buy their phones under contract... this is pretty similar. Of course this would be a better deal with the next gen consoles, since $300 isn't really that much for a complicated piece of electronics.
alexandros
Banned
My comment was not aimed at anyone specific, it's a general remark based on some reactions. I just want people to think about this rationally.
How is it a massive ripoff when the interest rate is pretty much zero?
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Actually I'm not totally sold you CAN get the identical product + service + 2 year warranty for less if you don't pay monthly.
As it stands now it's $40 less up front, but you only get a 1 year warranty not 2.
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