I really really like the controller in principle and the dev impressions give me optimism. Guess we all have to wait for beta testers to show it off. Worst case scenario for some game, just dig out an old controller.
Also. Yes, I am a child
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Really? Nobody? Steam + controller = the steamroller!
Its obvious. Haptics will not provide as much grip as an analog stick.
I really really like the controller in principle and the dev impressions give me optimism. Guess we all have to wait for beta testers to show it off. Worst case scenario for some game, just dig out an old controller.
Also. Yes, I am a child
Uh?
One of the stupidest analogies I've seen. The thing is this quote has been used so many times for products that get a lot of negative feedback that its just used out of context. Does anyone seriously think that this controller is anyway analogous to the first mass production car that was affordable. (hint: its not).
Looks more like a low-rent DJ controller than a gamepad. Not to mention the kinds of games I mostly play on PC tend to be console-influenced anyways... so in those cases I'd rather just use a Logitech or Xbox pad.
https://twitter.com/dejobaan
https://twitter.com/chrisremo
http://kotaku.com/valves-controller-has-been-tested-here-are-some-impre-1415579308
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...the_Steam_Controller_Heres_what_they_said.php
http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller
Hey, what's with all the patronising? ;-)
If it works, great. Anyways, how do you think it will fare, playing fps on the couch? Better than analogue sticks? Or close enough to be a good alternative? Actually what are the advantages over dual analogue sticks?
So, I've seen people (not necessarily here) who can't quite figure out the advantage this control affords over a traditional thumbsticks, so I've created the following images to explain.
Thumbsticks work by giving the user control over acceleration of movement. The thumbsticks themselves don't actually control where your looking, but rather how much your view changes every tick. So here is a thumb stick that is centered for 4 hypothetical frames:
when the stick is centered, the degree of acceleration is 0, and you see that the direction the person is facing remains the same for all 4 frames. But if we tilt the stick slightly, like so:
now we see that we have a 15 degree change. So, in frame 1, we're still looking forward, then in frame 2, our view has shifted 15 degrees, then further and further until by frame 4, we're looking to our right. Now, we can push the stick further and make the rate at which our view changes increase in speed, like so:
now the change is 45 degrees. You see that, by frame 3, we're now looking to our right when, if we'd pushed the stick slightly less, it took us 4 frames. This is actually what we have control over, how fast the things change. but the fundamental flaw with this control method is you still have to wait until the game updates enough for you to face the desired direction. These thumbsticks have limits to their extents, so, for example, there is no way to push the stick far enough so that, by the very next frame, we're facing the complete opposite direction. There is always a few frames we have to wait.
Now, with touchpads (or with a mouse) we can directly select exactly which directly we want to face, on any given frame. It works like so:
you can see from left to right is actually a gradiant of positions which encompasses our view in 360 degrees. When we press in the middle, or don't press anything, we're looking forward. However, we can slide to different positions on the gradient and our view will match within the colored circle instantly:
with touch (and mouse) controls, we're not inputting the rate of change. We're inputting exactly where we want to look. That is the advantage mouse users have over controller users - they can instantly select any angle to use, where as controller users have to wait to get there. These touchpads afford the exact same advantage, without the need for a mouse.
Does that clear this up for anybody? Feel free to repost this anywhere else, btw.
Great impressions.
James Schall, Director Digital Distribution (US / Europe):
First impression: great to handle the beta controller, the touch pads are incredibly responsive and I would imagine that once used to it, it could deliver higher performance for the gamer.
Ichiro Lambe, Dejobaan Games president:
On how it feels: It feels comfortable, yet different from anything I've used before. They did a really good job of simulating physical controls through the haptic feedback -- ideally, this means that the controller will morph into whatever you need it to based on how you program it.
If this was any other company it would be laughed at and ridiculed like crazy.
The same people we read about. Where they the only ones Valve invited?
Great technical explanation from another thread.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/28009245/#Comment_28009245
If this was any other company it would be laughed at and ridiculed like crazy.
It looks exactly like product development and none of it is worrying.
With all due respect, no way, is any touchpad player on laptop going to beat me on fps.
With a Mouse, yes. Of course, they will. But not with a touchpad. So what's different? Why are traditional touchpads so much more inferior to mouse and keyboard? Or is my initial idea, about traditional touchpads being way inferior to dual-stick just wrong?
Nonetheless, quite an interesting theory there.
If this was any other company it would be laughed at and ridiculed like crazy.
Great impressions.
James Schall, Director Digital Distribution (US / Europe):
First impression: great to handle the beta controller, the touch pads are incredibly responsive and I would imagine that once used to it, it could deliver higher performance for the gamer.
Ichiro Lambe, Dejobaan Games president:
On how it feels: It feels comfortable, yet different from anything I've used before. They did a really good job of simulating physical controls through the haptic feedback -- ideally, this means that the controller will morph into whatever you need it to based on how you program it.
With all due respect, no way, is any touchpad player on laptop going to beat me on fps.
With a Mouse, yes. Of course, they will. But not with a touchpad. So what's different? Why are traditional touchpads so much more inferior to mouse and keyboard? Or is my initial idea, about traditional touchpads being way inferior to dual-stick just wrong?
Nonetheless, quite an interesting theory there.
Yeah, the more I think about this, the more it seems that I have no use for it. I will continue to use a keyboard+mouse and a 360 pad. I'm fine using a keyboard+mouse in the living room, so I don't think this has anything to offer me.
And since this is a sensitive thread, please understand that this is all speculation based on what I'm reading. Like that should even need to be said. I'm curious to feel the haptics for myself.
Valve has earned that level of respect and because it is Valve it may actually be good.
With all due respect, no way, is any touchpad player on laptop going to beat me on fps.
With a Mouse, yes. Of course, they will. But not with a touchpad. So what's different? Why are traditional touchpads so much more inferior to mouse and keyboard? Or is my initial idea, about traditional touchpads being way inferior to dual-stick just wrong?
Nonetheless, quite an interesting theory there.
It's worrying because it sounds we will see it on shelves in 2018.
More positive impressions. Valve seems to have really done their homework.
I haven't even read the whole thread, but you've made at least three or four one-liner posts laughing and ridiculing it. Not enough positive reinforcement?
With all due respect, no way, is any touchpad player on laptop going to beat me on fps.
With a Mouse, yes. Of course, they will. But not with a touchpad. So what's different? Why are traditional touchpads so much more inferior to mouse and keyboard? Or is my initial idea, about traditional touchpads being way inferior to dual-stick just wrong?
Nonetheless, quite an interesting theory there.
"These are not like laptop trackpads," Tabar said. "Everyone is like, 'Oh we're replacing thumbsticks with trackpads, oh shit.' [laughs] But this is not at all like a laptop trackpad. It just feels good. It's a challenge to verbally describe it.
I was really impressed with the mouse imitation. It doesn't feel like a trackpad."
I can't stand trackpads on laptops, and this felt really good to me. There was almost no learning curve as far as accuracy goes."
Remo added that he doesn't really consider the pads to be "trackpads," which, to players and developers, often represent poor feedback. "This is just the opposite of that," he said.
I don't get why people aren't taking this into consideration. It's like they think Valve is run by idiots and hasn't put forward consistently great products for about 15 years now. They wouldn't make this sort of a change to the standard controller design without loads of testing.Yeah, I seriously doubt they would have went in this direction if it was non-responsive, limited and felt like shit to use.
If this was any other company it would be laughed at and ridiculed like crazy.
Touchpads in regular laptops are p. terrible.
On the other hand, the touchpad on a macbook pro is super sweet, but the positioning makes it hard to use for gaming.
how do you not get excited reading that
Sounds like the material that the trackpad is made out of is quite grippy, via impressions of the device.
There are also concentric circles on the trackpad to aid in grip.
It's not "obvious". Right now we can't even tell if "grip" is even needed without trying it. You're not moving the thing for a start unlike a stick. All you should need is enough resistance for feedback and nothing more.
Bottom line you're jumping to conclusions with almost zero evidence either way - but you're not alone in that.
What?I'll give you the mac's touchpad. The Air's one just works. Still way way inferior to dual stick in my opinion, but far beyond all other laptop's touch pads.
You know, you could just have read the FAQYeah, the more I think about this, the more it seems that I have no use for it. I'm fine using a keyboard+mouse in the living room, so I don't think this has anything to offer me over an existing combo of 360 pad and kbm.
And since this is a sensitive thread, please understand that this is all speculation based on what I'm reading. Like that should even need to be said. I'm curious to feel the haptics for myself.
Im a happy Steam customer happily using my happy mouse and keyboard. I dont want a controller?
You cant make a sentence into a question by just putting a question-mark at the end. But were happy youre happy, and by all means keep using whatever input method makes sense for you.
You know, you could just have read the FAQ
With all due respect, no way, is any touchpad player on laptop going to beat me on fps.
With a Mouse, yes. Of course, they will. But not with a touchpad. So what's different? Why are traditional touchpads so much more inferior to mouse and keyboard? Or is my initial idea, about traditional touchpads being way inferior to dual-stick just wrong?
Nonetheless, quite an interesting theory there.
One of the stupidest analogies I've seen. The thing is this quote has been used so many times for products that get a lot of negative feedback that its just used out of context. Does anyone seriously think that this controller is anyway analogous to the first mass production car that was affordable. (hint: its not).
Uh?
That quote is just meant to point that asking to the people what they want and taking their answer at face value rarely leads to genuinely new and creative solutions.
There's no any other "comparison" involved.