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Valve really need a Community Manager. At the least...

Lomax

Member
I think maybe Valve have observed some of what didn't work for Blizzard, in that Blizzard at times tried to be massively transparent and it would just backfire ("you promised me a pony") and so they figure that increased communication won't end up helping them and will just be increased workload on someone.

That said, they need to increase the size of their support staff by 100 fold. It's insane that they have a multi-billion dollar storefront with such poor customer service and such a small amount of support staff. When Origin support makes you look bad, something is horribly wrong.
 

elyetis

Member
On the bright side, they don't need any community manager on dota 2 side since they only need to announce 1 content patch per year.
 

Salsa

Member
I think they are, somewhat surprisingly, not in desperate need of one. You'd think they'd be at a worst spot considering how quiet they keep.

but at this point it would do em good to be a bit more communicative, yes.

honestly it's a delicate thing that can very well backfire as well, and i'd be surprised if they havent explored the positive and negative scenarios. The "they just dont give a fuck" attitude is unrealistic, but I agree that at this point they should do something more direct about it.
 

Vibranium

Banned
I'd really like to see more done on Valve's blogs: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/

With the exception of one post in January from Michael Abrash (who no longer works at Valve), the newest entry between the three of them is from July 26, 2013. Their Linux blog hasn't been updated since November 16, 2012, and we all know that Steam for Linux has grown substantially since then. The entire Linux blog has a total of four posts.

This is just one example of something that would go a long way to furthering customer relationships. There are a LOT of cool things going on at Valve - why not share some of that with us on a regular basis? It doesn't have to be super-secret-half-life-3 stuff, but just the day to day things like "Hey, we've published this new change to the Steam client that lets you disable DLC for your games, and we think it's pretty cool."

I know that they have announcements like this that are made in the various "official" Steam community discussion groups, but these announcements are typically made by the engineers and are more technical in nature. Give us a blog post about your cool new thing you're working on, include some pictures, and it goes a long way to convincing everyone that there are real people working at your company.

Just my thoughts on the Valve blogs.

Precisely, you are the man jshackles. Valve revamping their blogs for employees to interact with fans would be wonderful, and like you said they don't have to write super-secret stuff. I want to learn more from the people who work there too, what kind of RPGs do they like for example?

I think games journalists need to try to confront them more on their very bad communication process, when RockPaperShotgun interviewed Eric Wolpaw a while back I really wanted them to go on the offensive, yet they asked nothing about the secretive nature of the company's employees.
 

Nzyme32

Member
While all that sounds doable, it's reliant too much on people's taste and awareness for good things to not slip through the cracks and be unable to get a fair shake. Every month or so, Steam starts giving me flashbacks to 5+ years of LittleBigPlanet's community pages, and it's 8 million levels of spam, and things floating to the top to bury quality underneath things that are entertaining purely in an ironic sense. Individual stores is the equivalent of hearting a creator or forum member who has good taste, and hoping that they're active + unbiased.

It seems like financial gain would incentivize quality control from popular private curators, but it would also incentivise the same mentality that big publishers have - go lowest common denominator or go home, 'cause I'm busy showcasing the game that will get me paid.

That's a good analysis, it's the same point of view that I have to a degree. We'll have to see how it pans out, particularly among the creators of games themselves. Going off the one indie dev that has mentioned anything, it's hopeful, and I have to imagine that Valve would take their time as to not implement such a system and fuck it up, as it is the core of their business. However, I see inevitable teething problems that you describe. It will be interesting to see how they handle them
 
As a fan of Nintendo and a user of Steam, I must say that when Nintendo is much more frequent in its information releases, considerably more transparent between developers and fans, and significantly faster to respond to community unrest than you are, and when EA has a more pro-consumer PC digital distribution platform (I am specifically talking about Origin here, especially in terms of how it only advertises games that are related to the games you own on Origin and how Origin offers you full refunds under certain conditions even if the laws in your area don't specifically require them, etc.) than yours, you might have a problem on your hands.
 

Blizzard

Banned
My only recent experience was trying to get any sort of feedback about the SteamVR API -- I tried to post and message the Valve developer/forum, but never got any response whatsoever. Maybe I annoyed them, maybe they were busy, who knows. The last thing I could try is randomly tweeting at them and hoping they see it I guess? Or maybe a customer service ticket, though that's a bit of a weird match.

It's unfortunate because that's the sort of thing that seems like it could be nice -- virtual reality API, all sorts of nice compatibility, etc. But what if you want to extend it? Is there any way to offer your changes to Valve so they can merge it in? What if you have questions? What if (in my case) you want to use the latency tester API, but it's not in SteamVR, and may never show up?

Who knows! I ended up concluding using the Rift-specific SDK with no wrapper was the better approach.
 

King_Moc

Banned
As long as 90% of PC gamers blindly refuse to use any other service, why should Valve care? They can pretty much do what they like.
 

megalowho

Member
Valve's lack of communication and outreach is a major reason why their whole Steam Machine initiative feels like a tinkery side project that's headed for failure instead of the next evolution for PC gaming. Whether it's part of their corporate DNA or not, if it was someone's job to actually represent and promote those boxes and that controller I can't imagine the whole thing would still be floundering around aimlessly like it seems to be currently. And of course Steam itself is radio silent whenever the people need answers about anything - it's frustrating and does add to the perception that Valve cares more about algorithms than customers.

They don't need a team of PR robots or someone to come in and shake up how they handle announcements but a community manager seems long overdue. Knowing that Valve reads the Steam forums for consumer feedback doesn't exactly give me peace of mind either, that place is nutty.
 

Cipherr

Member
I have been gaming a long time. I have seen a lot of community 'managers' primarily from MMO's over the years. Community managers are something gamers tend to want, but man oh man do they ever do seemingly nothing but bitch and moan when they get them.

The stuff poor Sonya Thomas went through was absurd. It can have good effects, but it also creates a beacon for petty people to hone in on. Theres also the part where it seems like the vast majority of the stuff from CM's is just PR speak nonsense because they can't very well shit on the company that cuts their checks.

Not unless they are given permission too anyway.
 

HariKari

Member
That said, they need to increase the size of their support staff by 100 fold. It's insane that they have a multi-billion dollar storefront with such poor customer service and such a small amount of support staff. When Origin support makes you look bad, something is horribly wrong.

I feel like they don't care about this, simply because it's not any one person's job inside Valve to care about it a great deal. Whenever there's something controversial or needing comment (like the dev being banned) they just go silent and it irks the community.

I don't think a CM will solve much. Valve just doesn't think of communication the same way everyone else does.
 
D

Deleted member 102362

Unconfirmed Member
When Valve wants to be communicative, they can. The way they handled the M4A4 Howl situation was rapid, clear and direct.

I really hope Diretide has caused them to look at situations that require in-depth communication more seriously and respond accordingly, such as in the above example.
 

Nzyme32

Member
As long as 90% of PC gamers blindly refuse to use any other service, why should Valve care? They can pretty much do what they like.

I think its true that if they want to they could get by on very little effort, however I think the whole thing could get turned on its head if Valve do the bare minimum as others will capitalise over time
 
I love it how people assume Valve have an obligation to communicate with them.

Every company has an obligation to communicate with its customers.

Valve doesn't care and why should they?

Because when incredibly successful companies quickly become incredibly unsuccessful companies, poor customer relations is almost always a root cause?

Just my thoughts on the Valve blogs.

The whole situation in a microcosm, and a perfect example of why the myth of the meritocracy is toxic at organizations like Valve.

The whole flat organizational structure thing sounds like such a dream, from a distance. Instead of bosses, we can just have smart, clever people working on the stuff that catches their fancy! This is an incredibly appealing dream to many people who grew up as the smartest person in their particular room, and so it's no wonder that so many Silicon Valley companies try to capture some of this in their structure.

The problem is that without real organization, you get a lot of clever ideas that are done half-assed -- which pretty much sums up most of Valve's efforts now. A solid featureset connected to a pretty crummy storefront and a creaky client. A major, industry-redefining initiative that can't be bothered to explain itself well enough to get people on board. To fix problems like these, you need to assign people concrete duties inside the company, and you need to have accountability when things are fucked up. Valve's structure fights against both, which means actually polishing their customer experience or putting things out in a finished state is increasingly going to be outside their capability.
 

Enco

Member
Valve customer support is pure shit.

Plenty of examples on here, Reddit and around the net.

They don't give any shits.

Everyone gives them a free pass because they're 'cool'. You also get people defending the lack of caring towards customers for some absurd reason.

All Valve are about is making hats, trading cards and other bullshit ways to make money. Want them to add volume control in their client? Wait a few years. Want any contact regarding an issue? Good luck. Want to hear about the latest developments? Lol no.

Valve needs to fucking change and stop talking about how amazing their lack of a boss is. It's a dumb system. Either Valve has to change or the community has to do something about it.

edit: what's going to happen is this thread will soon die out and this issue will once again be forgotten. Valve will then continue on making a lot of money and nothing will change
 
I do wish Valve was at least a little vocal to the community. It sucks that so many people are promoters of Steam, yet Valve just wants to give its loyal customers the silent treatment. PR is nonexistent with them.
 

Enco

Member
I do wish Valve was at least a little vocal to the community. It sucks that so many people are promoters of Steam, yet Valve just wants to give its loyal customers the silent treatment. PR is nonexistent with them.
Yea I have to admit the relationship is pretty weird.

Customers support Valve and do everything for them. Not the other way around.

This would never fly with any other business. Customers are the ones serving Valve.
 
2-wonka_gate.jpg


Can't have a magical unveiling that knocks the socks off the world if you don't close the factory up first, now can you?
 
Said it before: Valve's flat corporate structure is a great environment for people to get fancy pie-in-the-sky dreams and make them a reality.

It's a terrible environment for when you need people to just sit down and work through the list of bugs, screwups, and complaints that come in the process of making those fancy projects.
 

Enco

Member
Said it before: Valve's flat corporate structure is a great environment for people to get fancy pie-in-the-sky dreams and make them a reality.

It's a terrible environment for when you need people to just sit down and work through the list of bugs, screwups, and complaints that come in the process of making those fancy projects.
What dreams have come to fruition?

Trading cards? Big picture? Family sharing that's limited as hell and is probably rarely used? I honestly don't see anything mind blowing that Valve has done.
 

Renekton

Member
Basic communication with customers doesn't need to be "PR" so there's really no excuse for how slack they've been. They need better communication on issues, and it's way past time they addressed that.

What does that have to do with informing customers on things like Heartbleed and it being safe to log in, or what's up with servers?
You make it sound like a constitutional right.

Question: What does Valve owe me for buying Papers Please at 75% off?
 

Organon

Neo Member
edit: what's going to happen is this thread will soon die out and this issue will once again be forgotten. Valve will then continue on making a lot of money and nothing will change
Yes, and why is that the case, you think? Because people are really happy with Valve.

So am I, in fact. So happy not to have to read "developer diaries" and stuff about "our Radiant AI that's so incredible" (yes, I fell for that when I was young and stupid).

If people had a problem, they would migrate away. They don't.
 
I'd really like to see more done on Valve's blogs: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/

With the exception of one post in January from Michael Abrash (who no longer works at Valve), the newest entry between the three of them is from July 26, 2013. Their Linux blog hasn't been updated since November 16, 2012, and we all know that Steam for Linux has grown substantially since then. The entire Linux blog has a total of four posts.

This is just one example of something that would go a long way to furthering customer relationships. There are a LOT of cool things going on at Valve - why not share some of that with us on a regular basis? It doesn't have to be super-secret-half-life-3 stuff, but just the day to day things like "Hey, we've published this new change to the Steam client that lets you disable DLC for your games, and we think it's pretty cool."

I know that they have announcements like this that are made in the various "official" Steam community discussion groups, but these announcements are typically made by the engineers and are more technical in nature. Give us a blog post about your cool new thing you're working on, include some pictures, and it goes a long way to convincing everyone that there are real people working at your company.

Just my thoughts on the Valve blogs.

Excellent post. It's been bothering me for a while, but there's all that supposed quirkiness that surrounds their games and Steam with the updates and sale and the way they present them, yet they feel so distant, robotic because I just can't put anyone behind them.

Just look at Gabe's recent AMA where he brought some other Valve guys with him. In the end it really could have been the janitor behind all that, the answers were so generic and short. I like AMAs because I get to know certain people better. James Cameron's for ex was fascinating. This was useless as it can get. Of course an issue was people wanting to know more about Half-Life 3 and unannounced projects, but can you blame them?

Maybe that's why Valve haven't thought of making a ValveCon. I can see how people there would try and grill them about HL3 and secret project news. And again I wouldn't blame them.

I think games journalists need to try to confront them more on their very bad communication process, when RockPaperShotgun interviewed Eric Wolpaw a while back I really wanted them to go on the offensive, yet they asked nothing about the secretive nature of the company's employees.

RPS did try to push them about that at CES.
 

Raide

Member
Community Managers have to get use to not talking about a game for a few months and then slowly trickling info out. Being a CM for Valve would be damn soul destroying. Nothing to talk about for the last few years apart from "No comment." They certainly need one if/when HL3 appears, just to show people it won't end up like DNF.
 

maneil99

Member
Steam as a client is so shitty its unbelievable, but the incredible amount of pro steam supporters halts any momentum for change.
 

Aaron

Member
Community Managers have to get use to not talking about a game for a few months and then slowly trickling info out. Being a CM for Valve would be damn soul destroying. Nothing to talk about for the last few years apart from "No comment." They certainly need one if/when HL3 appears, just to show people it won't end up like DNF.
It's not about games. It's about being CM for Steam and other initiatives like steamboxes, as well as long running titles like Dota 2.

You're confusing a CM with a PR rep.
 

Guess Who

Banned
At some point Valve is going to have face the reality that having a structureless, do-what-you-want environment is great for actually making games and other creative pursuits but terrible for things like customer service and public relations.
 
I feel Dota 2 still has not really left the beta stage, but hey I am still there every day and even bought a compendium and shit and Valve knows this. So they dont give a shit.

That is the situation when things are going great financially. They're going to change their strategy when the time comes.
 

Raide

Member
It's not about games. It's about being CM for Steam and other initiatives like steamboxes, as well as long running titles like Dota 2.

You're confusing a CM with a PR rep.

CM's are PR. They tend to work very close to the PR part of the company, since that is what dictates what kind of information they can talk about. A Product Manager is probably better for SteamBox etc. Also, they would need more than 1 CM to deal with all the Valve stuff. They would need a dedicated Dota one and a few for Steam services. Steambox needs hardware guidance, not Community Management.
 
2-wonka_gate.jpg


Can't have a magical unveiling that knocks the socks off the world if you don't close the factory up first, now can you?

Let's talk about Nintendo for a second here.

Nintendo IS the gaming Wonka factory. They work hard to maintain a whimsical appearance, they're highly secretive, and they periodically open the factory gates to let fans see what they are working on.

BUT they still respond to controversies quickly, have lots of PR and community managers, and are not afraid to make aside remarks as to what they are working on and how far it is progressing. Nintendo is what Valve is attempting to be, except Valve is failing at it because there's a difference between being reclusive and being deceased.
 

Nevadatan

Member
Valve, I hear John Drake is looking for work. That guy can deflect criticism like a jedi master.
i like what you did there.

but really, as jshackles said, a bit of non-hl3 gossip on their blogs wouldnt hurt. take the TF2 blog for example, just share some thoughts in the same style as the tf team do and you are good.
 
Full disclosure here, I'm currently working for a company that deals with PR and marketing and those sorts of things, so of course I'm going to argue things from that side of the fence. That said:

We are now living in the age of social media. When Steam first launched, sites like Facebook and Twitter were still in their infancy, or didn't even exist yet. But that was then. Today, if you expect to get anywhere with the gaming community, you need to be willing to communicate directly with your fans through social media. Whether that means having your developers do it themselves or, more commonly, hiring someone to do PR and communications on the developers' behalf, communication is now one of the most important tools out there. This is the information age we are living in, and consumers therefore expect information from companies like Valve.

The rest of the industry has been getting on-board with this, and we've seen the results. Nintendo just dominated E3 by using social media to directly address fans and provide them with streamed gameplay. Sony has the PS Blog where they interview developers and show off games of their own. Microsoft has the Major Nelson Podcasts, videos, and other ways to tell their fans what's happening. All three have twitter feeds, facebook pages, youtube channels, Twitch accounts... look, over the last few years, we have seen the gaming community develop into a real online community, and developers and publishers have now engaged with that community. They give us info directly, we then get to parse and examine that info. It doesn't even have to be revealing. Nintendo's developers are still as secretive as ever, the company has simply made sure that fans are kept up to date on news and relevant news.

If Valve refuse to employ any kind of Community Management or Public Relations staff, then they really are putting their heads in the sand. they've got a digital storefront with, last I heard, around 50 million (EDIT 75 million) people signed up and actively using it. Those 75 million people deserve to know if and when certain things are happening. Steam servers going down for maintenance? We should know. Updates coming to the storefront? We should know. Changes happening to the terms of service? We should know. This lack of engagement from Valve is as bad as their unwillingness to invest in an actual curation department, instead offloading the work onto the community through Greenlight.

This is 2014, and there is no excuse for a multi-billion dollar corporation with 75 million+ users to employ the basic staff to handle information releases and community management. "Bu-bu-but we want to focus on the software." Really? Because you sure seem happy paying marketing guys whenever there's a new L4D or Portal game coming out. Are the guys who put L4D posters all over London underground the same guys who did coding and gameplay design? I very much doubt it. So why pay marketing folks there, and not pay to have a basic Community Management team? This is a case of Valve wanting to get by on minimal effort when it comes to actually keeping the community up to date on things, and when every other company up to and including Nintendo is making the effort, there really is no excuse.

PR is important. It keeps your fans up to date, in the know. Trying to run everything behind the scenes just turns people off when it ends up going badly, as we saw just recently with the developer getting banned from Steam debacle. Get it together Valve.
 

TimFL

Member
Not sure what's up with Valve this year. Not a lot of good news are coming out regarding them and their public perception also isn't at its best. Do they even care?

What?
- Upcoming/past Steam sales
- Steam Machine/SteamOS announcement
- Steam Controller being close to release (I think Q4 2014 or Q1 2015?)
- Dota 2 tournaments
- Countless updates to existing games (TF2, L4D2, CS:GO, Dota 2 etc. etc.)
- Additions to Steam (Trading cards, Tags, developer storefront usability updates, long awaited features like bandwidth control, Streaming, trade offers, upcoming Steam Music feature etc. you name it)
- Virtual Reality support announcement (Valve will offer functions in their Steamworks SDK that deal with all the device stuff, one unified pack of functions to deal with all VR devices/versions)
- 50 rumors a day about sequels to existing franchises (Portal 3, L4D3, Half-Life 3)
- Source 2 in development

I'd say Valve has a lot going on and I'm pretty sure a lot of people know about that.
 
Full disclosure here, I'm currently working for a company that deals with PR and marketing and those sorts of things, so of course I'm going to argue things from that side of the fence. That said:

Thanks for your input, also last we heard Steam has 75m active users.

What?
- Upcoming/past Steam sales
- Steam Machine/SteamOS announcement
- Steam Controller being close to release (I think Q4 2014 or Q1 2015?)
- Dota 2 tournaments
- Countless updates to existing games (TF2, L4D2, CS:GO, Dota 2 etc. etc.)
- Additions to Steam (Trading cards, Tags, developer storefront usability updates, long awaited features like bandwidth control, Streaming, trade offers, upcoming Steam Music feature etc. you name it)
- Virtual Reality support announcement (Valve will offer functions in their Steamworks SDK that deal with all the device stuff, one unified pack of functions to deal with all VR devices/versions)
- 50 rumors a day about sequels to existing franchises (Portal 3, L4D3, Half-Life 3)
- Source 2 in development

I'd say Valve has a lot going on and I'm pretty sure a lot of people know about that.

I'm talking about communication issues and how they affect their rep. Updates are nice, but not everyone cares about those games. However when an issue like Diretide comes up, that's more widespread.

The storefront issue has been a lot bigger than any Steam feature related announcements. It affects everyone. Cards and music are nice, but not as useful as a functional storefront would be.

The reaction to Steam Machines/SteamOS/Steam Controller hasn't been good to say the least. In fact its public perception is so bad, that if a product were to be judged before its release this would be a bomb. No one is talking about them anymore or if they do it's skepticism or snark. Only recently did a (then) Valve employee rant about OGL (which is integral to this initiative) and spark a wide debate which rustled a couple of feathers. I see devs on reddit posting how they're aren't using their controller prototypes anymore, because there's no reason to. Not a good outlook. And then we have the supposed main Steam Machine, Alienware's model launching without SteamOS and the Controller, but with Windows and Xbox controller (The irony!) because Valve's delay.

Rumors are just that, rumors. People want to see concrete things. Gooseman talking about how he saw a HL3 concept art isn't helping anyone.

Everyone is doing sales now. That's just routine stuff by now. Besides people like to bring up how GMG and Amazon are outdoing Valve in that regards.

Dota 2 and VR is nice again, but not going turn on the majority of people.

I'd argue that Greenlight, Diretide, Steam Universe, security stuff have been more important than all these stuff.
 

TimFL

Member

I don't even think that I want a Valve that communicates a lot with the fanbase. I'm used to them ignoring my Gaben love letters and I'm perfectly fine with that.
The hype will be even bigger then once they finally announce something (storefront rework, new game etc.).
That's simply what makes Valve unique, crap communication, great service & games (+ Gaben).

It works for them, they are printing money like it's nothing. I don't think they see a need to change, regardless of what we think.
 

HariKari

Member
I'd say Valve has a lot going on and I'm pretty sure a lot of people know about that.

All of the things you listed have been horribly communicated, perhaps barring the International and compendiums. Why? I suspect the Dota team is responsible for their own communication.

Who is responsible for shit hitting the fan with the client? VAC? the store? At a corporation with no formal job titles and no formal responsibilities, you need at least a guy to handle that crap. There are times where Valve absolutely needs to comment and not be totally paralyzed by it. When it was discovered that VAC was doing some less than wholesome things, Gabe quickly took to reddit to comment. Why don't they have someone that can relay Valve's take/position without having to wait for the head honcho to show up?

Isn't Valve one of the richest companies per employee in America? They can afford to hire someone/ a team - even with their strict requirements and culture - to better communicate things. The "show, don't tell" approach doesn't cut it.

I sure would like to know the thoughts of Valve employees on why the client is so shitty. Wouldn't you? I haven't got the faintest clue what they have planned for it. I guess I'd have to wait for a reddit AMA or someone to surface at an event to ask them.

As someone pointed out earlier; it's pretty dumb when EA does a better job than you at anything.

It works for them, they are printing money like it's nothing. I don't think they see a need to change, regardless of what we think.

They're not infallible. A drop can be sudden. People are invested in Steam but someone can always do it better. Some would argue GOG, Origin, and Amazon already are in certain respects.

I love Valve but they really need to get it together.
 

Sentenza

Member
Said it before: Valve's flat corporate structure is a great environment for people to get fancy pie-in-the-sky dreams and make them a reality.
Look, I can trust that Valve has a more-or-less "flat structure", especially since this was basically confirmed even by angry former employees leaving the company (Kim Swift, Jeri Ellsworth) and trying to badmouth it.
I also think Valve stands for some impressive quality standards and NO, I'm not one of those guys who seem to think that DOTA 2 isn't an actual game for some reason.

What I just refuse to believe even just for a second is that a company that seems to play so safe and corporate-like when it comes to business decisions and production pipeline would be some sort of paradise for creative freedom.
it seems rather self-evident to me that they are trying to avoid risks and stick to their confidence zone as much as possible.

It's a terrible environment for when you need people to just sit down and work through the list of bugs, screwups, and complaints that come in the process of making those fancy projects.
I don't think Valve has a problem with "fixing bugs" at all, generally speaking.

I do think that they are absolutely terrible in terms of communication, on the other hand, but then again I wouldn't expect a community manager to solve a single thing.
 

Sub Zero

his body's cold as ice, but he's got a heart of gold
The just need to hire JaseC as a community manager and jshackles as a network technician
 

Kariodude

Banned
If you told me that they have a PR room with a single computer that anyone can just walk into and respond to people however they want, I'd believe you. I think they're on the level of YouTube when it comes to being almost completely invisible. There is no transparency when it comes to how they're handling anything. Anything that happens to the application or the store or the company basically happens without any warning and without any feedback requested from the user base.
 
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