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[LiK]

http://variety.com/2015/music/news/...ted-video-game-composer-exclusive-1201400889/

The American Federation of Musicians is sending mixed signals to its members this week: threatening a Grammy-nominated video game composer with expulsion, while also trumpeting a new contract with producers and networks whose specifics are being kept under wraps.

Austin Wintory, who was charged last January with violating union rules for recording his score for “The Banner Saga” video game under non-union auspices in Texas, was found guilty by the union’s International Executive Board and fined $2,500. Wintory is refusing to pay the fine on principle.

“Doing so would be to agree that their failed policies, selective tactics and threats work,” he said. Failure to pay the fine by Jan. 19 will result in expulsion. Wintory says his lawyers are “dealing with the realities of the board’s ability to expel me.”

The AFM board’s actions puts it in conflict with its own Local 47, the L.A. local, which not only passed a resolution supporting Wintory in October, but praised him in a front-page story in its own in-house newspaper for his “strong support of the use of AFM musicians [and] applauds his efforts to bring more work to AFM and Local 47 musicians.”

Wintory said that, instead, he would write a $2,500 check to Education Through Music – Los Angeles (ETM-LA) “where the money can be used toward building on dreams instead of destroying them."

Game composers have been critical of the AFM for years, contending that union’s existing game recording contracts contain provisions that publishers refuse to accept. A December 2012 agreement hasn’t been used at all; a new one created in June 2014 has only been used once.

Game publishers are turning increasingly to Nashville (Tennessee is a right-to-work state, where AFM members can work non-union) and London to record music. Wintory attempted to record “Banner Saga” with L.A. musicians but, he said, it was twice as expensive as recording in London and added extra fees related to future uses of the music.

Meanwhile, the Recording Musicians Association (RMA), the “player conference” within the AFM that represents many studio musicians, announced over the weekend that the union had concluded negotiations with the AMPTP on a new multi-year contract for recording TV and film scores.

Details of the pact, however, were being kept under wraps Sunday. Musicians are expected to be informed of the details late Monday during meetings of the RMA and Local 47 membership.

Local 47’s new leadership will take office Monday, with new president John Acosta and vice president Rick Baptist expected to be more responsive to the growing number of dissenting voices in the 7,000-member local. Many are unhappy about the steep decline in recording work, which they blame on companies that flee L.A. because they can get better deals in London or Eastern Europe.

 

[Fisty]

This Hollywood bullshit needs to die in a fire. The really exploited workers in this industry get the shaft and no union help, while the artists get locked down and threatened by organizations they are forced to be a part of, just so they can do what they love. Absolutely stupid.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

These Hollywood unions are less real unions in the fair labor spirit and more medieval guilds which stomp out competition and dissent. Hell, there are a few that even call themselves guilds.

 

[crooked spin]

Did the musicians who Austin recorded with receive a fair wage?

 

[AWintory]

Did the musicians who Austin recorded with receive a fair wage?

Yes of course they did

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Yes of course they did

Hey there. Great work on TBS and your CS:GO music kit! Sorry you're still dealing with this BS, though.

Wintory said that, instead, he would write a $2,500 check to Education Through Music – Los Angeles (ETM-LA) “where the money can be used toward building on dreams instead of destroying them."

I love it.

 

[hawk2025]

Did the musicians who Austin recorded with receive a fair wage?

Define "fair wage". How does one determine what that is?

 

[Living Proof]

Define "fair wage". How does one determine what that is?

Well... it's established through the unions in the first place, so if they were paid similarly to whatever musicians would make under their specific circumstance in the union, then it's "fair."

It's not some subjective measure (many would argue it should be, and indeed unions in general fight this mentality in every industry, but I digress). If you perform your task you get paid what is deemed appropriate. They could have been paid much more for their talents off the books and the union would still get their panties in a bunch since their hands weren't in the cookie pot to scratch up the crumbs. Likewise, they'd argue that they could have potentially been paid below what is necessitated for their skills.

 

[Htown]

Yes of course they did

NeoGAF

E X C L U S I V E

 

[crooked spin]

Yes of course they did

Hey Austin thanks for answering. Workers being exploited in a situation like this is my main concern.

Hope this whole thing can be resolved amicably.

 

[lastflowers]

love his soundtracks. It's a shame he's getting treated like this.

 

[rakhir]

There is this ideal vision of unions as an organization that's helping workers and making their life better.
Unfortunately one way or the other most of them turn to shit and abuse their power

Good luck with the fight, Austin! I can't wait to hear your stuff in Banner Saga 2.

 

[dreamlock]

Yes of course they did

Loved your work man. Keep up the good fight.

 

[Erheller]

I found this part interesting:

Game publishers are turning increasingly to Nashville (Tennessee is a right-to-work state, where AFM members can work non-union) and London to record music.

Yes of course they did

Thanks for your great soundtracks in Journey and The Banner Saga and Monaco and probably other games I've played. Hope everything goes well for you in the future.

 

[KorrZ]

Yes of course they did

TBS had an absolutely incredible score, great work! Sorry that you have to deal with this bullshit.

 

[chaosaeon]

I think the only game I've played featuring his work was Journey, and the music was fantastic.

 

[Falk]

AFM being AFM. Not only have they not done anything to help the people they represent to get work with regards to video game music (new contract in 2014 has been used all of once - for a string quartet) there's a huge undercurrent of discontent in general regarding the way things are being handled on multiple fronts.

Game publishers are turning increasingly to Nashville (Tennessee is a right-to-work state, where AFM members can work non-union) and London to record music.

Nashville recorded for TLoU among many other things, (and funnily enough, some of the orchestrals of Lightning Returns, of which we recorded the rest here in Boston), London remains a big destination for the games that have the budget for it, but a lot of recording has gone to Czech and Bulgaria over the years as well.

I don't wanna plug, but of course, Boston has started to become another hotspot, albeit a much more low-key one as of now, as vast majority of our gigs have come from Japan through direct contacts.

 

[Goldenroad]

Yep. God forbid the Union doesn't get their cut. Scumbags.

 

[Rymuth]

The hell...

 

[RicardoNeftali]

Yes of course they did

Big fan of your work, your donation, and your answer!

 

[giant_frying_pan]

I'm hugely pro-union, but outfits like this give the concept a bad name.

Well done on taking a stand, Austin.

 

[KimonoNoNo]

Ok, say Austin does get expelled from the AFM what does that mean in the practical sense?

 

[AWintory]

Ok, say Austin does get expelled from the AFM what does that mean in the practical sense?

It means that I will be unable to hire AFM musicians for the indefinite future. It obviously in no way prevents me from continuing to compose and record elsewhere (such as Nashville or London).

This matters to me because 1) I live in LA, an AFM town, and therefore these musicians have become close personal friends. They are getting screwed by policies being made at the national level. And 2) Because even if I weren't friends with them, they're being screwed by policies being made at the national level. It's unjust

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Game composers have been critical of the AFM for years, contending that union’s existing game recording contracts contain provisions that publishers refuse to accept. A December 2012 agreement hasn’t been used at all; a new one created in June 2014 has only been used once.

What provision are these?

and what ones did Austin violate?

 

[AWintory]

Well... it's established through the unions in the first place, so if they were paid similarly to whatever musicians would make under their specific circumstance in the union, then it's "fair."

It's not some subjective measure (many would argue it should be, and indeed unions in general fight this mentality in every industry, but I digress). If you perform your task you get paid what is deemed appropriate. They could have been paid much more for their talents off the books and the union would still get their panties in a bunch since their hands weren't in the cookie pot to scratch up the crumbs. Likewise, they'd argue that they could have potentially been paid below what is necessitated for their skills.

I don't 100% agree. What's "fair" is what you ask for, and is then accepted. If you say "Austin will you write music for my game for $1?" and I say "Sure!" then that was fair. You were transparent in the offer, and I accepted. To say it's unfair because you might have found that amount too low is not really relevant (not that I'm accusing you of saying that or anything similar. Just making an example for educational purposes).

Bottom line, for The Banner Saga the orchestra I hired quoted me the rate they wanted (which they'd used for several DECADES) and I happily agreed. End of story. I actually did send them a bonus check later even but that's not actually relevant to the "fairness" of it.

I could go one step further: the rate currently being set by the AFM for recording games is so astronomically high that IS unfair because it has killed basically 100% of the work. Of course the rate, isn't the main problem so much as the royalties but that's a whole long thread unto itself ...

 

[AWintory]

How the hell was this added to my avatar to the left?

AUSTIN WINTORY 2015:
He pays a fair wage.
my name is Austin Wintory and I approve this message

... I didn't add that ...

 

[hawk2025]

I don't 100% agree. What's "fair" is what you ask for, and is then accepted. If you say "Austin will you write music for my game for $1?" and I say "Sure!" then that was fair. You were transparent in the offer, and I accepted. To say it's unfair because you might have found that amount too low is not really relevant (not that I'm accusing you of saying that or anything similar. Just making an example for educational purposes).

Bottom line, for The Banner Saga the orchestra I hired quoted me the rate they wanted (which they'd used for several DECADES) and I happily agreed. End of story. I actually did send them a bonus check later even but that's not actually relevant to the "fairness" of it.

I could go one step further: the rate currently being set by the AFM for recording games is so astronomically high that IS unfair because it has killed basically 100% of the work. Of course the rate, isn't the main problem so much as the royalties but that's a whole long thread unto itself ...

Yep!


I agree 100%, and this is what I was getting at. Artificial price controls are bad for everyone, especially in nascent industries like game music composing.

 

[colinp]

How the hell was this added to my avatar to the left?

AUSTIN WINTORY 2015:
He pays a fair wage.
my name is Austin Wintory and I approve this message

... I didn't add that ...

Mods being dumb and tone deaf, per usual.

Keep up the great work Mr. Wintory!

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

How the hell was this added to my avatar to the left?

AUSTIN WINTORY 2015:
He pays a fair wage.
my name is Austin Wintory and I approve this message

... I didn't add that ...

You got a "tag", a special line that replaces "Member/Junior Member" whenever an Admin sees fit to give one to a member.

 

[Drencrom]

How the hell was this added to my avatar to the left?

AUSTIN WINTORY 2015:
He pays a fair wage.
my name is Austin Wintory and I approve this message

... I didn't add that ...

Mods lol

Love your work, hope you can resolve this mess with AFM.

 

[Falk]

Austin, I'm not too sure how much you're willing to discuss it right now/here, but have you ever considered straight out going Fi-core?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I don't 100% agree. What's "fair" is what you ask for, and is then accepted. If you say "Austin will you write music for my game for $1?" and I say "Sure!" then that was fair. You were transparent in the offer, and I accepted. To say it's unfair because you might have found that amount too low is not really relevant (not that I'm accusing you of saying that or anything similar. Just making an example for educational purposes).

Bottom line, for The Banner Saga the orchestra I hired quoted me the rate they wanted (which they'd used for several DECADES) and I happily agreed. End of story. I actually did send them a bonus check later even but that's not actually relevant to the "fairness" of it.

I could go one step further: the rate currently being set by the AFM for recording games is so astronomically high that IS unfair because it has killed basically 100% of the work. Of course the rate, isn't the main problem so much as the royalties but that's a whole long thread unto itself ...

Spot on. I hope you can somehow resolve this kerfuffle and keep up your fantastic work!

 

[Gentleman Jack]

How the hell was this added to my avatar to the left?

AUSTIN WINTORY 2015:
He pays a fair wage.
my name is Austin Wintory and I approve this message

... I didn't add that ...

I like it.

But if you don't want it PM a mod and appeal to change it back to Member.

 

[inm8num2]

Sorry to hear about this, Austin. Keep up the great work and hopefully you can resolve this without too much stress/hassle.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Yes of course they did

Hey Austin. I'm receiving your newsletter and I love your work. I wish I could continue to enjoy your fantastic music through more games. How can we, gamers, help you in any way ?

 

[SapientWolf]

Mods being dumb and tone deaf, per usual.

Keep up the great work Mr. Wintory!

If by "dumb and tone deaf" you mean "hilarious" then yes. Yes they are.

 

[KePoW]

I don't 100% agree. What's "fair" is what you ask for, and is then accepted. If you say "Austin will you write music for my game for $1?" and I say "Sure!" then that was fair. You were transparent in the offer, and I accepted. To say it's unfair because you might have found that amount too low is not really relevant (not that I'm accusing you of saying that or anything similar. Just making an example for educational purposes).

Bottom line, for The Banner Saga the orchestra I hired quoted me the rate they wanted (which they'd used for several DECADES) and I happily agreed. End of story. I actually did send them a bonus check later even but that's not actually relevant to the "fairness" of it.

I agree with you 100%

Unfortunately some people on the left-side of politics do not understand this simple concept. In America no one is literally holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to work. A person is free to choose whether they want to work for a certain amount or not.

I'm glad I'm a born & bred Texan where we dislike unions here. Most of them are bullcrap

 

[colinp]

If by "dumb and tone deaf" you mean "hilarious" then yes. Yes they are.

Your reading comprehension skills are exceptional. =p

 

[MikeDown]

I love your music Mr. Wintory, that is an unfortunate situation and I hope it gets resolved for the better; keep up the good fight!

 

[Aztechnology]

I agree with you 100%

Unfortunately some people on the left-side of politics do not understand this simple concept. In America no one is literally holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to work. A person is free to choose whether they want to work for a certain amount or not.

I'm glad I'm a born & bred Texan where we dislike unions here. Most of them are bullcrap

I didn't realize your head could get stuck that far up your ass with horns like that.

 

[crooked spin]

In America no one is literally holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to work.

In America you need money to live; to obtain money you need to work. You could say that the very system we live in is holding the gun to all of our heads.

 

[runnin_blue]

If by "dumb and tone deaf" you mean "hilarious" then yes. Yes they are.

Hilarious? That tag they gave him is just shit. I fail to see the funny in it.

 

[AWintory]

Austin, I'm not too sure how much you're willing to discuss it right now/here, but have you ever considered straight out going Fi-core?

Couldn't go Fi-Core with charges open against me (which were sent January of 2014, exactly one year ago). And now being expelled closes that door. So Fi-Core was only an option earlier, prior to recording The Banner Saga. However, that would have protected me and done nothing for the community of musicians who are hurting because of these terrible agreements and policies.

I could have easily brokered a deal w/ the IEB over my charges but obviously I'm much more interested in helping players (who are very vulnerable to these policies) since, in the end, the AFM can't actually halt my career anyway.

Finishing a video for YouTube detailing all this, which I'll post today.

 

[Aztechnology]

Couldn't go Fi-Core with charges open against me (which were sent January of 2014, exactly one year ago). And now being expelled closes that door. So Fi-Core was only an option earlier, prior to recording The Banner Saga. However, that would have protected me and done nothing for the community of musicians who are hurting because of these terrible agreements and policies.

I could have easily brokered a deal w/ the IEB over my charges but obviously I'm much more interested in helping players (who are very vulnerable to these policies) since, in the end, the AFM can't actually halt my career anyway.

Finishing a video for YouTube detailing all this, which I'll post today.

Awesome, looking forward to it.

 

[hawk2025]

Couldn't go Fi-Core with charges open against me (which were sent January of 2014, exactly one year ago). And now being expelled closes that door. So Fi-Core was only an option earlier, prior to recording The Banner Saga. However, that would have protected me and done nothing for the community of musicians who are hurting because of these terrible agreements and policies.

I could have easily brokered a deal w/ the IEB over my charges but obviously I'm much more interested in helping players (who are very vulnerable to these policies) since, in the end, the AFM can't actually halt my career anyway.

Finishing a video for YouTube detailing all this, which I'll post today.

This is crazy.

There's basically many additional layers of bureaucracy added to the process, because..... why, again, exactly?

 

[AWintory]

In America you need money to live; to obtain money you need to work. You could say that the very system we live in is holding the gun to all of our heads.

I am NOT against organized labor but in this case, the AFM is preventing middle class jobs. They are protecting a very small number of 6-figure jobs for the tiny pool of players who are doing the remnants of work, and costing hundreds of others a viable middle class job.

That is basically precisely the opposite of a union's intended function.

 

[AWintory]

Also my very deep thanks to everyone for their kind comments about Journey, Banner Saga, etc

I am very lucky to do what I do and absolutely love continuing to share it with you all!

 

[~Kinggi~]

I am NOT against organized labor but in this case, the AFM is preventing middle class jobs. They are protecting a very small number of 6-figure jobs for the tiny pool of players who are doing the remnants of work, and costing hundreds of others a viable middle class job.

That is basically precisely the opposite of a union's intended function.

I can see where this could be a huge problem. Pretty horrible.

 

[crooked spin]

I am NOT against organized labor but in this case, the AFM is preventing middle class jobs. They are protecting a very small number of 6-figure jobs for the tiny pool of players who are doing the remnants of work, and costing hundreds of others a viable middle class job.

That is basically precisely the opposite of a union's intended function.

I understand and wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. This guy I quoted who "agreed" with you was obviously trolling.

 

[Aztechnology]

I am NOT against organized labor but in this case, the AFM is preventing middle class jobs. They are protecting a very small number of 6-figure jobs for the tiny pool of players who are doing the remnants of work, and costing hundreds of others a viable middle class job.

That is basically precisely the opposite of a union's intended function.

I don't think that it was directed at you. Another member here took a statement about a broken union's practices to fuel his confirmation bias. The comment was directed at him. I'm guessing you just felt the need to clarify before more people came to the wrong conclusion, but I don't think you have too much to be worried about. Most of us understand where you are coming from.

Also my very deep thanks to everyone for their kind comments about Journey, Banner Saga, etc

I am very lucky to do what I do and absolutely love continuing to share it with you all!

We love your work, trudge through it and we'll see you on the other side!