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[Jaeger]

What a dumb practice and something most collectors all agree is a horrible practice. As I do my usual eBay hunting for games to add to my collection, I keep coming across random "graded" VGA listings with jacked up unfounded prices, and random number based rating systems. I do some googling, and I find numerous threads (even on GAF), YT videos, etc all speaking about how trash it is, yet people still grade their stuff. Here is an example of a ludicrous auction. $619.91 USD. Why, though? The game doesn't seem to be particularly rare, and they are a handful of sealed copies on eBay as we speak. You can even get a new 3DO with one, and it still is several hundred dollars less than a "VGA Graded" copy. The pricing structure seems to be based on nothing, and it's just a seller markup on whatever price they decide on a whim. The VGA version isn't special. There are no known defects or misprints or anything of that nature. It's not a beta/prototype or anything, either. Oh, and check out that same seller's $10,000 copy of Zelda (NES)! It's literally just a regular oh copy, "graded". It's not even "GEM MINT", it's only rated at 90/100. So why are you charging 10 grand, then? You can see the bait titles in the listing; "MASTERPIECE HOLY GRAIL" in all caps.

A way superior method to simply protecting your games (if that is the goal, as most looked to be trying to take advantage of a poor soul who is doing some retro shopping), is here, and it is wonderful;

These can be opened at any time to take the goods out when desired. They are incredibly form fitting and blend in on the shelf seamlessly, not taking away from the uniformity of the cases design. Instead of being damaged from light and air in the plastic coffin that is VGA casing. And when you want to actually get it out (because it's a game), you could actually really do harm to sealed copies of games, or games with cardboard boxing.

This practice seems to be related (or copied) from trading cards and comic books (CGC, etc). But there are fundamentally different and superior reasons to grade a card or comic, and not a boxed pieced of digital media. Seems to do way more hurt and harm to both the product and the market than ANY good. I know we had a thread or two on it before, but it just particular made me sick this morning and I wanted to share.

 

[Zaptruder]

Why? Because a fool and his money are soon parted, that's why.

If there's a viable market out there, it's because some one is viciously exploiting the ignorance of some marks while appealing to their emotion of having the BEST and most authentic (in this case most elaborate packaging...) of some particular whogivesashit.

Seriously though... I mean, kudos to whichever crazy marketer decided to exploit what amounts to a framing technique on vaguely collectable junk and then sell the stuff at completely jacked up prices.

I suppose the idea is that you buy this stuff and in decades when it's still unopened, it'll be worth a mint. The same kind of thinking that goes into people buying collectable coins. A poor investment choice.

 

[DownGrader]

As far as I see, VGA rating is used mostly for people bragging on SealedGamesHeaven how much VGA 100 games do they have.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I don't entirely understand the point of buying sealed games, unless you plan on opening it yourself. I guess that destroys the value of it being sealed, but what value is there in that unless someone eventually wants to open something fresh and new.

The rating crap seems like an even stupider extension of sealed game collecting.

 

[Jaeger]

I understand wanting a sealed game. The desire to have a game title (and packaging/manuals) in the best condition is totally understandable. As a collector, I don't plan on playing every game I try and get. Especially if it cost a fair amount to acquire. But there seems to be a side that goes far beyond that, and that's where "VGA" stuff comes into effect.

As far as I see, VGA rating is used mostly for people bragging on SealedGamesHeaven how much VGA 100 games do they have.

Lol I never even heard of that place. Now I have to see it.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Graded games are never intended to be opened, first of all. The point of having something graded and encased is to preserve it that way indefinitely. It's not about playing the game at that point - most likely they have a second copy for that. A graded game is about perfect preservation.

When it comes to prices, they are so high because they are completely arbitrary. They cost what people will pay. If somebody will pay $700 for it, woohoo. But all collector's items are inherently worthless. But there is appeal knowing that something you collect has been professionally graded to be in perfect condition and will now stay that way forever, retaining value and form.

 

[DownGrader]

Lol I never even heard of that place. Now I have to see it.

Here it is, although I highly recommend you to not go really deep into that forum - this place is nothing but bragging and support group for people who want more bragging rights.

 

[SerTapTap]

I don't know who buys them and I hope no one does. I wish I could get ebay to stop showing me them. It's just a scheme to get stupid people to give them money. I may be stupid but I refuse to give them money.

 

[Jaeger]

Here it is, although I highly recommend you to not go really deep into that forum - this place is nothing but bragging and support group for people who want more bragging rights.

I got instant occult/Heaven's gate vibes when I clicked it.

 

[MathLover75]

Why? Because a fool and his money are soon parted, that's why.

If there's a viable market out there, it's because some one is viciously exploiting the ignorance of some marks while appealing to their emotion of having the BEST and most authentic (in this case most elaborate packaging...) of some particular whogivesashit.

Seriously though... I mean, kudos to whichever crazy marketer decided to exploit what amounts to a framing technique on vaguely collectable junk and then sell the stuff at completely jacked up prices.

I suppose the idea is that you buy this stuff and in decades when it's still unopened, it'll be worth a mint. The same kind of thinking that goes into people buying collectable coins. A poor investment choice.

Not everybody is doing it for investment purposes.

 

[Jaeger]

Not everybody is doing it for investment purposes.

That seems to be the main reason. If there are other reasons (protection) well according to most I have come across, these cases do more harm. They aren't air-tight which will rot out any boxes in no time. And they don't protect against UV light.

 

[JNT]

The pricing structure seems to be based on nothing, and it's just a seller markup on whatever price they decide on a whim.

That's the thing about market economies. As long as there are people willing to buy at that price it's obviously valued at that price. Granted, the main reason they are valued at this ludicrous level is mostly due to asymmetric information.

 

[SerTapTap]

Do people actually buy them though? I usually see a single VGA ~95 graded item among a bunch of reasonably priced perfectly fine condition items and I don't think I've ever noticed one actually being bought. I don't know why you wouldn't just buy one or multiple New ones and get it graded yourself, assuming you're stupid enough to want to grade it

 

[Sectorseven]

I bet they've graded some repros without even knowing it.

 

[LiegeWaffle]

Whenever I see rated sealed videogames, I think about Al McWhiggin from Toy Story 2.

I am myself trying to be fairly careful with my games, but I actually hope to play all of those games at some point in my life.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I bet they've graded some repros without even knowing it.

I'm sure they're happy to accept your money to knowingly grade a reproduction game.

 

[Jaeger]

That's the thing about market economies. As long as there are people willing to buy at that price it's obviously valued at that price. Granted, the main reason they are valued at this ludicrous level is mostly due to asymmetric information.

The sad truth. And that forum posted above is evidence that there is a community of some kind who buy and sell these kinds of games.

Do people actually buy them though? I usually see a single VGA ~95 graded item among a bunch of reasonably priced perfectly fine condition items and I don't think I've ever noticed one actually being bought. I don't know why you wouldn't just buy one or multiple New ones and get it graded yourself, assuming you're stupid enough to want to grade it

I personally have not seen any VGA stuff sell. I've been watching a few over the past few months and they are all still there or simply delisted.

 

[LiegeWaffle]

I bet they've graded some repros without even knowing it.

My observation is that there are collectors who are sufficiently obsessed with things like that to easily figure that out. Normally there would be a wire in the repro, or the board would be just plain wrong. Did you know that some NES cartridges came out with different number of screws on them, and in some cases, say, a 3-screw cartridge can be a sought-after rarity?

Too bad that actually verifying whether a cartridge is legit requires unsealing the box. I wonder how do they rate "mint-condition sealed" stuff. Do they X-ray them?

 

[Kobun Heat]

Well, since *somebody* should probably say it:

The main service that VGA provides is *authentication*. You see something in a VGA case, you don't have to do any further research -- it is exactly what it says it is. That's worth a lot of money. If I was going to sell a high-end sealed game, I might send it off to VGA first because I know I won't have to deal with a thousand requests for up-close photos of every single seam.

That said, I totally agree that there is a speculation bubble happening with VGA stuff, especially when the item in question is common. There's a lot of weird behavior around VGA that may come crashing down on some people. I'm sure VGA is pleasantly surprised that they're sent entire shipping boxes full of brand new common games to authenticate. But expert third-party authentication of collectibles is nothing out of the ordinary, it's certainly not unique to videogames, and it's an important service to have around with how many cheats, scammers and flimflam artists are currently trying to take advantage of collectors.

 

[Shai-Tan]

That's the thing about market economies. As long as there are people willing to buy at that price it's obviously valued at that price. Granted, the main reason they are valued at this ludicrous level is mostly due to asymmetric information.

we're assuming they are also selling? i don't know anything about that market but im guessing they are trolling for a relatively rare buyer. the listings might sit for a long while. they can afford to do that in a market with relatively rare goods since there's less price competition

 

[HappehLemons]

It's just a hobby. Not that weird.

Spoiler

I think it's dumb though.

 

[thelatestmodel]

It's just a hobby. Not that weird.

Spoiler

I think it's dumb though.

It is a pretty weird hobby though. The only people that actually care are the ones who are doing it. Anyone outside the hobby is just looking in and watching people throw money on a fire.

 

[REDSLATE]

Grading games isn't a bad idea altogether (other collectibles are graded), but the way "VGA" goes about doing it is pretty fucked up. The game has to be sealed and the assigned ratings are largely influenced by the condition of the cellophane rather than the actual product (disc, case, manual). If they were to assign a specific tier for sealed games and a more common tier for opened games, it would make more sense. Additionally, they make no guarantee to support their certification. Essentially, it's just an expensive service for buying acrylic cases.

 

[Jaeger]

Grading games isn't a bad idea altogether (other collectibles are graded), but the way "VGA" goes about doing it is pretty fucked up. The game has to be sealed and the assigned ratings are largely influenced by the condition of the cellophane rather than the actual product (disc, case, manual). If they were to assign a specific tier for sealed games and a more common tier for opened games, it would make more sense. Additionally, they make no guarantee to support their certification. Essentially, it's just an expensive service for buying acrylic cases.

I don't mind grading game's condition. In fact, that's something that will always exist no matter what when it comes to collecting, no matter what the subject matter ends up being. Games have value just like everything else, and the closer it is to the day it hit shelves the more desirable these become/are. I agree the way VGA goes about it is bad, and gives a bad taste to the whole aspect.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

Well, since *somebody* should probably say it:

The main service that VGA provides is *authentication*. You see something in a VGA case, you don't have to do any further research -- it is exactly what it says it is. That's worth a lot of money. If I was going to sell a high-end sealed game, I might send it off to VGA first because I know I won't have to deal with a thousand requests for up-close photos of every single seam.

That said, I totally agree that there is a speculation bubble happening with VGA stuff, especially when the item in question is common. There's a lot of weird behavior around VGA that may come crashing down on some people. I'm sure VGA is pleasantly surprised that they're sent entire shipping boxes full of brand new common games to authenticate. But expert third-party authentication of collectibles is nothing out of the ordinary, it's certainly not unique to videogames, and it's an important service to have around with how many cheats, scammers and flimflam artists are currently trying to take advantage of collectors.

I've always written it off as dumb, but I can see this perspective on it. If I wanted to get a game in luscious perfect virgin condition and money was no object, I'd go for the authenticated one. The arguments against it seem to revolve around the concept of grading itself and the money people charge for graded games (not in vga's control obv.) I haven't seen anything calling them out on any real foul play, like a counterfeit slipping through the cracks. I do wonder if people can replicate an original easily and if they can, well, that sucks. but it's not like I have evidence (or care enough to look deeply into it.)

and also being angry at what people list things for is silly. If it sells, good for them and the buyer who agreed to pay it. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. A lot of what people call "scams" and bullshit on ebay are not that at all. It's all supply and demand and fair exchanges of money. Nobody involved has a gun to their head. Sellers can't coerce or conspire to get people to buy things at a particular price.

Without some examples of foul play, this is just bitching into thin air.

 

[Jaeger]

I've always written it off as dumb, but I can see this perspective on it. If I wanted to get a game in luscious perfect virgin condition and money was no object, I'd go for the authenticated one. The arguments against it seem to revolve around the concept of grading itself and the money people charge for graded games (not in vga's control obv.) I haven't seen anything calling them out on any real foul play, like a counterfeit slipping through the cracks. I do wonder if people can replicate an original easily and if they can, well, that sucks. but it's not like I have evidence (or care enough to look deeply into it.)

and also being angry at what people list things for is silly. If it sells, good for them and the buyer who agreed to pay it. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. A lot of what people call "scams" and bullshit on ebay are not that at all. It's all supply and demand and fair exchanges of money. Nobody involved has a gun to their head. Sellers can't coerce or conspire to get people to buy things at a particular price.

Without some examples of foul play, this is just bitching into thin air.

Actually, there are lots of examples of foul play, and fakes, and opened games being "authenticated" and sold as sealed. I even provided some links in my first post that talk about those very things. I mean, there's information out there but you said yourself you don't care to look into it. But it's there. Here are some quick informative links if you change your mind;

http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?167939-Exposing-VGA-(Video-Game-Grading-Authority
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BbHDMXxm04

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Maybe the boxes are filled to the brim with crack cocaine.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

Actually, there are lots of examples of foul play, and fakes, and opened games being "authenticated" and sold as sealed. I even provided some links in my first post that talk about those very things. I mean, there's information out there but you said yourself you don't care to look into it. But it's there. Here are some quick informative links if you change your mind;

http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?167939-Exposing-VGA-(Video-Game-Grading-Authority
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BbHDMXxm04

ah, i scanned through it and it seemed like he was constantly bitching about pricing and erroneously calling it a "pyramid scheme." His points about the integrity of the cases and mis-graded items are taken though--that sucks!