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[DNAbro]

They pulled an MGS2 style bait and switch. People were super fucking bitter when it turned out Snake wasn't the main protagonist of MGS2, and I don't see how this is any different. It doesn't matter that she's a female character or any of that "waifu" bullshit. She was promoted as the main protagonist and then it turned out she's not even in half the game and now Namco wants people to pay more money to play as her again. How is that not bullshit?

As long as the game was still great I wouldn't mind that much. But something tells me this isn't the case.

 

[rhandino]

I honestly can't believe its just people being salty over their waifu.(ugh) It's an RPG, not a dating simulator.

It's a Tales RPG, this games sales not only for the RPG elements but for the characters and interactions between them.

The game is kind of riddled with little problems, but apparently is a step in the right direction in other... I will buy it when it comes but man, I kind of hope that the DLC is also free for a limited time here =P

 

[Shengar]

Well the difference here is that MGS2 clearly had a thematic message going with that switch and it was brilliant. I'm not sure why they would market Alicia as a main character only for her to be sidelined. Perhaps they originally intended for the DLC to be paid but changed it to free after the backlash?

Yeah, this fiasco and MGS 2 Raiden bait-and-switch isn't the same at all. MGS2 one have a purpose behind the circus, while ToZ seems doesn't and more sudden midway development change.

 

[mdubs]

I couldn't care less about the dlc anger but it makes me sad that Alicia was relegated to a side character after being promoted as a main character, I really like her character design.

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

They pulled an MGS2 style bait and switch. People were super fucking bitter when it turned out Snake wasn't the main protagonist of MGS2, and I don't see how this is any different. It doesn't matter that she's a female character or any of that "waifu" bullshit. She was promoted as the main protagonist and then it turned out she's not even in half the game and now Namco wants people to pay more money to play as her again. How is that not bullshit?

Oh..I'd definitely say the waifu part plays into it. Can't show you on a graph how much, but saying it doesn't at all? Then you don't know the anime market in Japan.

 

[Dreamgazer]

The biggest non-dlc related complaint:

The seamless transition from exploration to battle - This is a great idea until you find yourself stuck in narrow hallyway, walled area or irregularly shaped terrain. ToZ doesn't have a dynamic camera, so you'll be constantly adjusting the camera cause some wall is blocking your view/your character have moved out of sight/behind an enemy, etc.

 

[Parakeetman]

This whole tragedy is even more funny when you remember that 6 months sooner, another japanese RPG (Oreshika 2 for PS Vita) was trashed in the same way, but it was because a female character was basically... too much omnipresent story-wise and gameplay-wise.

Gematsu had an in-depth look about this.

Thats totally different as it wasnt some marketing ploy. It fucked with the original game design that made the title popular with the group of fans who followed the series.

Sure you can get rid of her after the story but no one wanted to deal with her during the story itself to get to that point.

 

[Iziyi]

Never heard of it.

 

[è£ ç”²æ‚ªé¬¼æ‘æ­£]

Just marketing fucking things up.

If you finished the game and are still going "bu- bu- but Alisha!", you have some serious problems.

 

[SougoXIII]

Except Rose isn't a Mary Sue character? The bitterness over Alisha poisoned any perceptions of Rose before players even properly learned about the character. The tumblr post you're sourcing from was revealed to have mistranslations and lack of understanding of the game mechanics, as well as a hefty dose of bias causing links between random things for blaming (such as the claim that the Kamui system reduced an 8-man party to a 6-man party).

Hey I don't know about the Mary Sue part, I'm just going off what I read. Maybe when the game is coming over I can be bother to look up the story on youtube to make a clear analysis. What is clear though, is that Namco manages this switch a roo terribly and it rightly blew up in their face for it.

 

[Caronte]

Unless I'm crazy I thought it was always said that Serah was the main character? When the game was initially announced I was never under the impression Lightning was ever the main character.

So you saw a trailer only showing Lightning and the villain (ending with a logo that has both of them) and you thought "Yeah, it's quite clear the protagonist is someone else I haven't seen yet"?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Oh..I'd definitely say the waifu part plays into it. Can't show you on a graph how much, but saying it doesn't at all? Then you don't know the anime market in Japan.

Of course it does, but it's not the main reason for it.

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

Well the trailer showed Alisha in scenes where as in the game she is missing (like a dragon battle) So I guess midway they shafted her and changed some things. :-(

Oh wow, okay there's bad marketing and fan created expectations, but straight up lying is another thing entirely. If I was shown footage of an RPG that heavily featured a character and was shown footage of them doing things that they wouldn't end up doing in the game. I would feel cheated too. If the game was good it wouldn't bother me as much, but I would still lose a lot of faith in the publisher.

Of course it does, but it's not the main reason for it.

Agreed.

 

[Mendrox]

Just marketing fucking things up.

If you finished the game and are still going "bu- bu- but Alisha!", you have some serious problems.

Well then tell me why she did appear in certain scenes in the trailer and is now missing in the game? And that there is suddenly a DLC story for her? She was advertised as the main heroine everywhere (even in the Asteria game!). This is no marketing fuck up.

 

[Shengar]

This whole tragedy is even more funny when you remember that 6 months sooner, another japanese RPG (Oreshika 2 for PS Vita) was trashed in the same way, but it was because a female character was basically... too much omnipresent story-wise and gameplay-wise.

Gematsu had an in-depth look about this.

I just realized that this nice article is written by a Gaffer

 

[SliceSabre]

it better be free forever to make up for this bullshit

it's Bamco tho

It'd be nice.

Though I wouldn't put it past them to charge us in the west for it though maybe under the hope we're not aware of what's going on.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Even the OVA released recently had Alisha in it front and centre, no Rose.

Bamco did a pretty horrific job marketing this game

I await Tales of Zestiria W(hoops) with brand new Alisha-stays-with-you content on the PS4

 

[Shengar]

Well then tell me why she did appear in certain scenes in the trailer and is now missing in the game? And that there is suddenly a DLC story for her? She was advertised as the main heroine everywhere (even in the Asteria game!). This is no marketing fuck up.

Yeah, more like development fucked up.
I wonder what changes happened in the game development that makes her pushed into irrelevancy.

 

[ULTROS!]

Maybe she was shafted due to time constraints? Kinda like how *Xillia spoilers*

Spoiler

Elympios was small and there are a few places to go to.

 

[Stuart444]

Even the OVA released recently had Alisha in it front and centre, no Rose.

Bamco did a pretty horrific job marketing this game

The OVA was just the first bit of the game which makes sense why Alisha was in it.

 

[Mendrox]

Even the OVA released recently had Alisha in it front and centre, no Rose.

Bamco did a pretty horrific job marketing this game

This part is understandable because it's almost the same as the first hour of the game. Why should they put Rose into the centre?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

The OVA was just the first bit of the game which makes sense why Alisha was in it.

Yeah, but that's not what they should have been putting out as it reinforces expectations that - at that point - they should have been doing their best to dissuade. Bamco had supposedly being walking back on Alisha's importance at that point(a few months ago) in other media.

 

[SougoXIII]

Maybe she was shafted due to time constraints? Kinda like how *Xillia spoilers*

Spoiler

Elympios was small and there are a few places to go to.

But unlike

Spoiler

Elympios

. isn't Alicia available at the beginning? Kinda weird to cut the stuff that's already there from the get go only to replace it with something else

 

[The Praiseworthy]

This makes me think that they might fix this with a new version with the DLC on the PS4, but I can't imagine releasing it this year because they will need to release it for Japan too.... And it might piss them off even more ( releasing a missing DLC version on PS3 and months later re-releasing it in PS4 with the DLC?! ).

I honestly don't know what they can do to draw this waves of anger.

 

[Valnen]

Props to Japanese gamers for pushing back against these practices.

Against DLC? Okay haha.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

This makes me think that they might fix this with a new version with the DLC on the PS4, but I can't imagine releasing it this year because they will need to release it for Japan too.... And it might piss them off even more ( releasing a missing DLC version on PS3 and months later re-releasing it in PS4 with the DLC?! ).

I honestly don't know what they can do to draw this waves of anger.

I don't think + DLC would be enough for the Japanese release, they'd need a remake that would have to totally rewrite the story or something so she's in throughout.

Under £1 tradein is insane, that's less then what you get for a 5 year old football game.

 

[Forkball]

The waifu wars are real.

 

[alexein]

theres an article about it on gamekult for french reader:
http://www.gamekult.com/actu/tales-of-berezina-le-japon-en-colere-A143837.html

Basically it tells that the overuse of fanservice (cross over costumes,xp boost..) finally blows up in bamco head.
the rumor said that alisha got shafted because baba prefered Rose.

 

[è£ ç”²æ‚ªé¬¼æ‘æ­£]

Well then tell me why she did appear in certain scenes in the trailer and is now missing in the game? And that there is suddenly a DLC story for her? She was advertised as the main heroine everywhere (even in the Asteria game!). This is no marketing fuck up.

The way one specific character was promoted was misleading -> marketing failure. None of this influences the quality of the game itself (which is alright).

 

[Mendrox]

theres an article about it on gamekult for french reader:
http://www.gamekult.com/actu/tales-of-berezina-le-japon-en-colere-A143837.html

Basically it tells that the overuse of fanservice (cross over costumes,xp boost..) finally blows up in bamco head.
the rumor said that alisha got shafted because baba prefered Rose.

Wouldn't shock me... Roses assests are better than Alishas lol

 

[Werewolf Jones]

the rumor said that alisha got shafted because baba prefered Rose.

Sometimes I hear Baba has little internal control but now this? wtf.

 

[Shengar]

theres an article about it on gamekult for french reader:
http://www.gamekult.com/actu/tales-of-berezina-le-japon-en-colere-A143837.html

Basically it tells that the overuse of fanservice (cross over costumes,xp boost..) finally blows up in bamco head.
the rumor said that alisha got shafted because baba prefered Rose.

If this is turned out to be true

 

[galvenize]

Can't be as bad as

Spoiler

killing off other Milla aka best Milla

in Xillia 2. Damnit ;-;

 

[The Praiseworthy]

I don't think + DLC would be enough for the Japanese release, they'd need a remake that would have to totally rewrite the story or something so she's in throughout.

Under £1 tradein is insane, that's less then what you get for a 5 year old football game.

I think they should give her the "Patty" treatment in Tales of Vesperia on the PS3.

This might be the only way to fix this situation.

 

[Mendrox]

I think they should give her the "Patty" treatment in Tales of Vesperia on the PS3.

This might be the only way to fix this situation.

They surely planned that and will release it on PS4. Imo it's way too obvious

 

[è£ ç”²æ‚ªé¬¼æ‘æ­£]

I think they should give her the "Patty" treatment in Tales of Vesperia on the PS3.

This might be the only way to fix this situation.

The game would need major changes in both story and gameplay systems for this to be possible.

frozenletitgo.gif

 

[Valnen]

I think they should give her the "Patty" treatment in Tales of Vesperia on the PS3.

This might be the only way to fix this situation.

That was a terrible solution because it ensured the west never got the definitive version of the game. We'll forever have an incomplete version of the game.

 

[Fisico]

The way one specific character was promoted was misleading -> marketing failure. None of this influences the quality of the game itself (which is alright).

Damn this whole thing just needs to stop, all this complaining is getting more and more ridiculous and many are led to believe for wrong reasons that the game might be bad or something, just reading the name of Tempest associated with Zestiria is kinda nauseous.

If you want to read feedbacks from people who played the damn game (like not those who watch some video/livestream and deemed that the camera made the game borderline unplayable) go check the OT (there may be 33 pages, but you can quickly browse through it to find opinions)
If you don't have the patience, wait for proper reviews

As for the Amazon debacle itself it comes from both Amazon and the gamer's obsession with some character who was indeed marketed as the heroine at the beginning but slowly dissapeared from promo material before release.
This obsession is IMO completely ridiculous and detrimental for scenario writers and developers, they should be free to do whatever they want with them it is their game and their plot, no one complained when Aerith died, nor when (Tales of Destiny spoiler)

Spoiler

Leon died

, Alisha not being there is perfectly fine story wise and there's nothing more to it.

Also her DLC will be free for anyone who was interested in her so...

 

[Sesuadra]

So many people have sold their game back to amazon that you now don't even get 100 yen ($1) if you sell them your game.

Amazing! I will get it cheaper in March

But really..good that the Japanese players do that.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

That was a terrible solution because it ensured the west never got the definitive version of the game.

This time is different... TOZ didn't release in the west yet, so If they ever planned to change anything they still got time for it.

But yeah... A lot of events and scenes will need a re-write and voiced again.

 

[Mendrox]

Damn this whole thing just needs to stop, all this complaining is getting more and more ridiculous and many are led to believe for wrong reasons that the game might be bad or something, just reading the name of Tempest associated with Zestiria is kinda nauseous.

If you want to read feedbacks from people who played the damn game (like not those who watch some video/livestream and deemed that the camera made the game borderline unplayable) go check the OT (there may be 33 pages, but you can quickly browse through it to find opinions)
If you don't have the patience, wait for proper reviews

As for the Amazon debacle itself it comes from both Amazon and the gamer's obsession with some character who was indeed marketed as the heroine at the beginning but slowly dissapeared from promo material before release.
This obsession is IMO completely ridiculous and detrimental for scenario writers and developers, they should be free to do whatever they want with them it is their game and their plot, no one complained when Aerith died, nor when (Tales of Destiny spoiler)

Spoiler

Leon died

, Alisha not being there is perfectly fine story wise and there's nothing more to it.

Also her DLC will be free for anyone who was interested in her so...

Tell me about her weapons in the shop (when she's gone, we noticed that the last time we played the game) the story reason is okay (going to the enemy land would have been stupid, yes).

You cannot deny that the camera in multiplayer just sucks. There are many videos about that and there are times where you can't see Shit. Neither player 1 or 2.

The game is still good and very epic at times (thanks go shiina)

 

[dakkumauji]

If you followed the promotional material for this game, you'll notice that Alisha was getting less and less featured as they released more and more trailers and gameplay features.

I mean, it was pretty obvious she was going to get shafted and it was basically a running joke for a while. I guess people just snapped when the running joke ended up being true.

So salty fans over missing their waifu. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

And here's a good comparison to the whole situation from the OT:

The people upset by that come across like 5 year old children. Why don't people let the game tell the story it wants to tell. It's like everyone giving FF7 1-star because Aerith dies part-way and they all thought she was going to be the lead female character for the entire game from early trailers/previews. It's actually exactly like that, and it's just as silly here to be upset by. I want rpgs to be able to ditch playable characters for story purposes and not be held back by crying fanboys.

 

[Bebpo]

The debacle is really dumb. Game is great, Alisha is the Aerith of the story and Rose is a great character. Nothing to see here. If you like Tales games and aren't looking for a waifu, you'll like Zestiria.

 

[freeofgreed]

LOL. Fucking Scamco.

lol "Scamco" feels like I'm back on gamefaqs. Reminds me of "micro$hit" and "crapcom".

The best part is that the heroine in question isn't even that interesting and the game itself is quite good.

Well that's subjective. Just because you think shes boring doesn't mean everyone else did. As we've evidently seen.

If Final Fantasy VII was released in 2015 it would probably get 1.6/5 reviews because of a lack of Aerith, honestly. Gamers today expect games to be conventional and can't handle their expectations not being met.

Not really comparable. FF7 it was for story reasons and her death had a huge impact on the cast. From what people here are saying she leaves and most of the party doesn't give a shit. Add that to the dlc and her weapons still being there makes it seem like she was cut for reasons aside from narrative.

Wait.

Did I miss the part where Japanese gamers abandoned Final Fantasy XIII-2 in droves because it turned out you played as Lightning for a single chapter before Serah becomes the main character? (unless I missed some bits at the end, I haven't finished the game yet)

I mean, maybe Square did a better job of setting expectations about how XIII-2 would unfold, but the Zestiria situation basically sounds like crazytown to me.

I don't get your point. There are millions of Japanese gamers. Just because some of them get mad at one thing in one game, doesn't mean they should be outraged at something else in a different game. Also it was extremely evident that Lightning was not the main character in FF13-2

They pulled an MGS2 style bait and switch. People were super fucking bitter when it turned out Snake wasn't the main protagonist of MGS2, and I don't see how this is any different. It doesn't matter that she's a female character or any of that "waifu" bullshit. She was promoted as the main protagonist and then it turned out she's not even in half the game and now Namco wants people to pay more money to play as her again. How is that not bullshit?

The two are not even remotely comparable. The MGS2 bait and switch was a huge part of its story and theme.

That Alicia DLC salt.

Wonder how that DLC will play out when they bring it to the west? Maybe free dlc considering how angry Japan was?

I doubt it. If anything we might not even give us a free week to download it. The west gave up the dlc fight long ago.

Well guys, don't be sad. Rose is the genki girl of the group and her Kamui forms look good too! She also has the best ass in the game and Lailah has jiggly boobs. And guess what? All the Tales of Zestiria girls are in the DLC episode! Rose also slaps Alisha! Nice.

She's a cute oujosama who rather wants to be a knight than a princess. Also her seiyuu is good too, she kicks ass and was promoted as the main heroin(e).

Omg you can't be real...

Props to Japanese gamers for pushing back against these practices.

Yup.

 

[Taruranto]

I wonder if the situation would be the same the same if Alsha design was less "sexy" and more "plain" like Rose, eh...

Baba: You yourself decide who the heroine is.

lol that sure pissed the fans of even more by saying that.

I thought Mikleo was the heroine.

 

[Cornbread78]

I think they should give her the "Patty" treatment in Tales of Vesperia on the PS3.

This might be the only way to fix this situation.

They surely planned that and will release it on PS4. Imo it's way too obvious

So your saying They are going to remaster Tales of Vesperia for PS4 and launch it in NA? That's how I read this at least...


Tales of Vesperia PS4
Tales of Zestria PS4.

Perfect Combo!

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm just coming to the thread and having not read any responses i can say its probably cause of the heroine thing...and the DLC.

Everyone is freaking out over it even now cause Baba keeps opening his mouth about Alicia's role in the game making everyone even more pissed off.

It would be like if Arturia was printed all over the packaging of Fate like she usually is, but then doesn't even show up for 9/10th of the story and you had to pay more to actually get a few hours of story featuring her.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

It just seemed to hit all the right points to piss Japanese fans off every day after release.

Opening song is released -> Where the hell is Alisha?
Game disk image -> Why is the circle in the middle of the disk covering Alisha's face?
Play the game -> WTF Bamco where is Alisha
Rose gets all her costumes -> QGUFGOFGOFGQ
Alisha DLC announcement -> F U Bamco
Promotional item description about Alisha changed from main heroine to character that appears -> I HATE YOU BAMCO

Didn't hear about the last one......oh scamco.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

The best part is that the heroine in question isn't even that interesting and the game itself is quite good.

Still a shitty thing to do. The game would have been well received otherwise, but Scamco got greedy. This is Jojo AllStars all over again.

 

[rhandino]

As for the Amazon debacle itself it comes from both Amazon and the gamer's obsession with some character who was indeed marketed as the heroine at the beginning but slowly dissapeared from promo material before release.
This obsession is IMO completely ridiculous and detrimental for scenario writers and developers, they should be free to do whatever they want with them it is their game and their plot, no one complained when Aerith died, nor when (Tales of Destiny spoiler)

Spoiler

Leon died

, Alisha not being there is perfectly fine story wise and there's nothing more to it.

Also her DLC will be free for anyone who was interested in her so...

Are you sure? I must imagined all those guides about how to resurrect her or people being bothered by it.

Also the

Spoiler

Leon

example is weird also since in the Re-release they included a

Spoiler

chapter focused in him

and in the sequel

Spoiler

You have Judas, as party character.

.

I plan to buy the game when it comes since I love to play Tales games but I can't be mad a people who are mad for this, I guess that people like their characters in character driven games =/

---

It just seemed to hit all the right points to piss Japanese fans off every day after release.

Opening song is released -> Where the hell is Alisha?
Game disk image -> Why is the circle in the middle of the disk covering Alisha's face?
Play the game -> WTF Bamco where is Alisha
Rose gets all her costumes -> QGUFGOFGOFGQ
Alisha DLC announcement -> F U Bamco
Promotional item description about Alisha changed from main heroine to character that appears -> I HATE YOU BAMCO

At least there is not going to be backslash here since we will know all of this with anticipation =D