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[PhoenixDark]

A lot know about issues that effect them (like Bush, 9/11, Katrina and so on) and there are a lot of "hippy" types, like all of my friends who went to Evergreen State college. Hippy isn't a really good word for them but they are the closest thing our generation has to hippies

Definitely; I'm sure many know and agree with many of those types of issues. But at the same time I doubt they're too thrilled about the more extreme views some conscious rappers express in their music, like Mos Def's black nationalist positions or Common's (older) views of interracial dating lol

 

[CB3]

I laughed at the topic at first.

But then i was like wow....thats more true than not. The fact that some shit like Soulja Boy can be at the top of the charts, while Artists like common and Talib Kweli are no where to be found baffles me every fucking day

 

[PhoenixDark]

I laughed at the topic at first.

But then i was like wow....thats more true than not. The fact that some shit like Soulja Boy can be at the top of the charts, while Artists like common and Talib Kweli are no where to be found baffles me every fucking day

To be fair, Soulja Boy is the kinda stuff people want to hear: snap and pop dance shit that makes you "cool" among your black friends. My friend's mom tried to do that dance in front me expecting validation. I shook my head and walked out the house.

Kweli/Common aren't mainstream marketable, sadly. People want disposable music

 

[swoon]

I would like to believe I'm the only person who gets this reference, but...probably not

people in this thread at least have heard the roots albums that samples it for the intro.

there is a certain smug awful idea that somehow rapping about bush and floods makes a song better than rapping about drugs and dancing. like that awful new chamillionare album is no where near as good as when he still rapped like he was from houston. there has always been a fear of popular black music - that it was disposable because it could never reach the "high art" of popular forms of white music, and this is just another example of what has been going on since the pre-war days.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

There's nothing underwhelming about underground producers like Madlib

OK, but what has he produced that actually grabbed mainstream attention?

Kweli had a hit with "Get By" produced by Kanye, and wasn't one of his throwaway beats he usually gives to smaller artists

Common had a hit with "Come Close" which was produced by the Neptunes and wasn't one of their throwaway beats they usually give smaller artists. His Kanye-produced album was one of his highest selling, hitting a mil worldwide and over gold in the US.

I personally don't like 99% of Madlib's productions, and I say 99% because I might've heard something in the past that I cannot think is him.

 

[pjberri]

I laughed at the topic at first.

But then i was like wow....thats more true than not. The fact that some shit like Soulja Boy can be at the top of the charts, while Artists like common and Talib Kweli are no where to be found baffles me every fucking day

To be fair, those two aren't exactly exceptional artists.

 

[nelsonroyale]

its the same with bboying in the states....there are tons of hispanics, asians and whites who get down...but not as many black peeps as you would think...people are getting back into it though, which is dope. In france, however, much more black are down...even here in the UK probably

Anyway, its the thug culture

 

[Nabs]

Common had a hit with "Come Close" which was produced by the Neptunes and wasn't one of their throwaway beats they usually give smaller artists. His Kanye-produced album was one of his highest selling, hitting a mil worldwide and over gold in the US.

Come Close was a hit? Common's biggest record was produced by J Dilla, who was an underground producer.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Come Close was a hit? Common's biggest record was produced by J Dilla, who was an underground producer.

Come close was one of his few songs that hit the Billboard Hot 100 and stayed there. I'd say that one J Dilla track was an exception rather than a rule, since he has had a FEW tracks hit the hot 100. He's more digestible than Madlib.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think hip-hop's problem is that it's a stagnant genre on the musical end. How much progress has it really made since the Sugar Hill days? Does it show anywhere near the growth that jazz, rock, or electronic music showed in their first 25 years? Does hip-hop's underground offer a meaningful alternative to the popular acts?

Hip-hop is seeing the effects of being purposefully unambitious. It's seeing the effects of being a genre run by shitty poets, rather than musicians. Frankly, the most interesting hip-hop I've heard the last few years has been from mash-ups.

 

[He Wants Chalupas]

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l207/fgsfdsfargeg/whiteblack.swf

 

[super funk]

Yeah, when I went to see Talib Kweli in Central Park last year, both white and asian people outnumbered black people by quite a bit.

I was going to go see KRS One in Prospect Park over the summer, but I didnt go in fear of sticking out like a sore thumb. Guess I should have read this article first.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think hip-hop's problem is that it's a stagnant genre on the musical end. How much progress has it really made since the Sugar Hill days? Does it show anywhere near the growth that jazz, rock, or electronic music showed in their first 25 years? Does hip-hop's underground offer a meaningful alternative to the popular acts?

Hip-hop is seeing the effects of being purposefully unambitious. It's seeing the effects of being a genre run by shitty poets, rather than musicians. Frankly, the most interesting hip-hop I've heard the last few years has been from mash-ups.

This is something that needs to be brought up and discussed if hip hop wants to have a future like jazz or rock did or alienate itself into two genres: mainstream pop or niche real hip hop. The biggest problem obviously is that hip hop came in like a burst, reached its creative peak very quickly and has been downhill since.

 

[nitewulf]

oh...i love when im sitting in a trendy bar and a bunch of white girls start talking about artsy rap and how they love it. gosh, they are so deep.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think hip-hop's problem is that it's a stagnant genre on the musical end. How much progress has it really made since the Sugar Hill days? Does it show anywhere near the growth that jazz, rock, or electronic music showed in their first 25 years? Does hip-hop's underground offer a meaningful alternative to the popular acts?

Hip-hop is seeing the effects of being purposefully unambitious. It's seeing the effects of being a genre run by shitty poets, rather than musicians. Frankly, the most interesting hip-hop I've heard the last few years has been from mash-ups.

I agree with some of that and not some of that. Hip Hop is an especially commercial genre. You only seem to gain credibility based on how many people bought your stuff and that sets the pecking order. Other musical genres got rid of that scheme a long time ago and had a divorce between monetary credibility and artistic credibility. Imo it's more a mindset and marketing issue rather than a dearth of talent. I think hip hop production has influenced all genres of music. Actual commercial hip-hop itself is the part that remains stagnant for various reasons.

 

[moist]

I went to a Zion I show about a month ago and the crowd was pretty evenly split. Of course I'm in Alaska so hip hop shows are always an interesting mix and probably not representative of the rest of the U.S.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

This is reatrded. Just because white people listed to your music doesn't mean they agree with much that you are saying. I am sure they are all "yeah fuck Bush!" and all that but start talking about black this and black that and they are just listening to the beat. I am sure they were/are a ton of white James Brown fans who know all of the words to "I'm black and I'm proud."

You're presumptuous and I think way off.

 

[MIMIC]

I'm assuming that there are more white people than black people....and that more of them are listening to that garbage rap that's on the radio these days.

So no.

 

[methane47]

I laughed at the topic at first.

But then i was like wow....thats more true than not. The fact that some shit like Soulja Boy can be at the top of the charts, while Artists like common and Talib Kweli are no where to be found baffles me every fucking day

To be fair... the reason why Soulja boy and the likes even make it onto the charts is BECAUSE of the white population's sale power...

ALL Rap music is sold mostly to white males.. remember that

 

[PhoenixDark]

Come close was one of his few songs that hit the Billboard Hot 100 and stayed there. I'd say that one J Dilla track was an exception rather than a rule, since he has had a FEW tracks hit the hot 100. He's more digestible than Madlib.

Come Close was #65 on the hot 100, so please. The Light reached #44. Production is not the only factor here. It's more about accessibility and dumbed down music. People don't want to hear Common giving them a sermon. Which is sad because he's got some great songs with social commentary

 

[Mr. Mister]

i look at soulja boy much like a weird al song, very funny, yet catchy. no one takes it seriously. main stream hip hop is pretty hillarious. i always have a good time reading new yorker articles on main stream hip hop, desperately trying to add meaning to nothing.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Modern mainstream rap reminds of the stuff that use to be like what a parody of rap used to be on a comedy shows like 10 or 15 years ago.

So maybe we mean the same thing... :lol

 

[fobtastic]

I remember years ago when a drunk freshman was acting like she was hot stuff because she listened to "underground rappers like Talib Kweli. Have you ever heard of Talib Kewli!?" While not all underground fans are always that obnoxious, I do find that many tend to have an err of superiority, scoffing at the mainstream whenever possible.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is that it's partly about image. There's a lot of value in feeling a sense of belonging to an exclusive subculture. Hence, people dropping a band once they become popular. Frankly, GAF is a great example of this. These days, underground conscious rap is associated with white upper-middle class college kids that get their tunes and info off of the internet. If you're a black youth growing up in the projects, would you want to associate yourself with this group?

 

[Stoney Mason]

Frankly, GAF is a great example of this. These days, underground conscious rap is associated with white upper-middle class college kids that get their tunes and info off of the internet. If you're a black youth growing up in the projects, would you want to associate yourself with this group?

Once again just anecdotal but I don't think that is why black youth isn't listening to that form of hip-hop although it may be because they can't relate to the music for a number of reasons. I don't think it is because white upper middle class people are listening to it though.

 

[stephendedalus]

Can't we all just listen to Rakim (Eric B. or no Eric B.) and get along?

 

[nelsonroyale]

oh...i love when im sitting in a trendy bar and a bunch of white girls start talking about artsy rap and how they love it. gosh, they are so deep.

uh, well depending on what stuff it is, maybe they have taste...which is great...

 

[fobtastic]

Once again just anecdotal but I don't think that is why black youth isn't listening to that form of hip-hop although it may be because they can't relate to the music for a number of reasons. I don't think it is because white upper middle class people are listening to it though.

Oh, it definitely ain't the main reason, but I do believe it's part of it. I have some other theories, like a culture that encourages hyper-masculinity, but I'm probably just shedding more light on my own ignorance...