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[Jawmuncher]

I actually don't mind lightning. If there was anything positive I'd give to FF13 aside from the battle system it would be the characters.
Well aside from Hope he was pretty annoying.

 

[Twin Tails]

i dont hate her. i hate hope

 

[CarbonByGravity]

Lighting is associated with the game (Final Fantasy 13) that almost took down the Final Fantasy franchise single handedly. The hate for her, rational or not, is fully understandable.

 

[gribbles]

Because Fang is better. But she never gets any recognition. They didnt even give her a new outfit in the new game.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

As I've often said I don't hate Lightning but I don't care for her either, it is mostly indifference from me; her personality, story arc and character progression never grabbed me but on the same token I was never turned off by any of those elements. I can see why she has her detractors, but I can also see why she has her supporters.

 

[kswiston]

FFVI is a giant poorly written anime cliche. How do people not notice this after 20 years.

I think a lot of it comes from the fact that many of us played those earlier games at 8-13 years old, and recall them with the feelings we had as children. Someone in another thread was recalling Cecil's epic journey of redemption in FF4. Dude bombed some cities at the beginning of the game, and then you had to fight your way through a couple of caves before he was "redeemed" as a paladin. It was as bare bones as a redemption plot could be, but at 10 years old, it seemed awesome (The DS remake fleshes out the characters a bit more though, from what I have played).

It's not completely successful, and is definitely sophomoric, but Final Fantasy VII actually tries to address a lot of interesting, adult themes. Definitely moreso than the SNES titles. Same goes for the other Playstation era games. I can understand why someone would prefer the earlier, simpler titles without their CGI, bloated battles, and extended summoning sequences, but to pretend that the characters and stories were more refined and sophisticated than what came after is just nostalgia.

I agree with this. Jeez, what did they do with her. Lightning had potential to be the best FF character and when it came to FFXIII they messed it up. I couldn't stand the US voice actor and it always sounded like she had a stick up her ass and just pissed off. Sigh:

I'm sure the script bares a lot of the blame, but FF13 featured a lot of disappointing performances by solid voice actors. The woman playing Lightning was also Liara in Mass Effect and Burroughs in Shin Megami Tensei 4, and was good in both of those roles, I thought. Snow was Troy Baker, who put out one of the best performances of the generation in the Last of Us, and was great as Yuri Lowell in Tales of Vesperia. Serah was Laura Bailey. It's not like they skimped on voice acting talent.

 

[Daingurse]

I don't hate Lightning, I am simply completely indifferent towards Lightning. She leaves no impression on me whatsoever.

Because Fang is better. But she never gets any recognition. They didnt even give her a new outfit in the new game.

This didn't help either.

 

[greatestjediever]

Because Toriyama mostly sucks

 

[The Jason]

I liked her before I played FFXIII

But as a long time FF fan, I cant stand the battle system, linearity, story or characters in FFXIII

 

[Zemm]

Incredibly boring character/personality and the face of a terrible trilogy of Final Fantasy games.

 

[kswiston]

I liked her before I played FFXIII

But as a long time FF fan, I cant stand the battle system, linearity, story or characters in FFXIII

I thought this was the only redeeming quality of the game. At least it was after the 25 hour tutorial sequence.

 

[Shinta]

Incredibly boring character/personality and the face of a terrible trilogy of Final Fantasy games.

Nice to see people remain objective about unreleased games they haven't played yet.

 

[Kenai]

I don't hate her, but I am pretty tired of seeing her crammed into as much as she is when I don't find her very interesting at all and want SE to move on.

Now, Snow? I can't seem to hate him enough. Hate is such a strong word, and yet it isn't strong enough to truly express my disgust. I'm not a big fan of Hope or Vanille either, but Snow...ugh. Just UGH.

 

[Dark Octave]

This is what a seasoned female soldier looks like.

This is what a high school student who acts like a child with a bad attitude and verbally and physically abuses multiple people in her team looks like.

 

[Toth]

This is what a seasoned female soldier looks like.

This is what a high school student who acts like a child with a bad attitude and verbally and physically abuses multiple people in her team looks like.

Did you really compare Lightning, a teenage soldier fighting monsters, to a battle hardened martial arts master who has seen countless conflicts? C'mon, apples to oranges.

 

[LuuKyK]

This is what a seasoned female soldier looks like.

This is what a high school student who acts like a child with a bad attitude and verbally and physically abuses multiple people in her team looks like.

Well... You tried.

 

[spirity]

She has a completely one dimensional personality, no charisma, and is the figurehead of the worst Final Fantasies ever made. Square Enix thinks she's great, which is unfathomable to me and should call into question their abilities as game developers. I don't want any more Final Fantasy games with those clowns running things and myopically high-fiving each other for making Lightning.

 

[Astery]

There's nothing in her to like, except being a sexed up doll and that's how people like her is how I see Lightning.

 

[SpiderJerusalem]

I like her voice

 

[Zoe]

I've read that the japanese version actually highlights this alot better because his thoughts are far more varied then the NA "whatever" over and over again.

He says "sorry" all the time in the Japanese version. Sometimes inappropriately, other times because he can't read the situation.

 

[dramatis]

Did you really compare Lightning, a teenage soldier fighting monsters, to a battle hardened martial arts master who has seen countless conflicts? C'mon, apples to oranges.

Except Lightning isn't a teenager, she's 21 in FF13. Most people would have grown up quite a bit by then, especially ones who have to care for younger siblings. Lightning had to undergo some degree of training and discipline to enlist in Guardian Corps. 'Teenage soldier' is not an excuse that will fly. But Lightning, oh no, parent trauma, lash out with anger, omg, can't you see how great of a character she is? Sorry, there's just no excuses.

What Dark Octave outlined is the difference between a woman of character and a woman lacking character. The comparison is fairly apt considering similarities between the two. Obviously, one is worth much more respect than the other.

 

[P90]

She's just bland and unnatural. She has no personality to speak of and bitch slaps people for no reason. She is just like FF 13 itself: pretentious.

Well said.

 

[HolyBaikal]

Lightning is so hot.

She's mai waifu <3

I don't know how anyone can hate her.

I mean look at how hot she is

<snip>

Like, hnnnnnnngg.

How can anyone not like that?

I'm curious. Is that sarcasm?

Could be a joke. But you never know.

 

[YAWN]

Why I don't like Lightning?

I've been a Final Fantasy fan since forever. So it's not the sappy melodrama of XIII that stigmatized her as a harbinger of "Square's downfall" in my eyes. In fact I really liked XIII.

It's the fact they're trying so hard to get people to like her.

The thing that's annoying is the attempted 'sexualization' of her character.
Now, I'm not some white knight here to burn a bra for the girls; I'm actually an opponent of feminism to the point that it would make the majority of GAF huff and puff and probably get me banned.

Lightning was created to be a bit androgynous. I remember the creators saying she was supposed to be like a 'female Cloud Strife'. When I look at Lightning I don't think to myself 'Would I fuck this character?'. No, because I'm not a neckbeard, and that's not the kind of character Lightning is supposed to be!

And it works! She pulled that off great and was a cool character just on the merit of her being a cool character!

For whatever reason that wasn't good enough for Square. I guess if otaku aren't making body pillows with her blushing in a provocative pose then it's 'Mission Failed'.

Now she's prancing around in skimpy Miqote gear, in every promo shot I see on their Facebook feed.

They're trying to make her this sexy poster girl for the franchise, which is never what she was supposed to be, and it doesn't work. It's very forced, and it's taking a character that I initially thought was 'pretty cool' and turning her into something that just makes me roll my eyes.

This.

To be honest, I didn't really give a damn about her in XIII, but I didn't hate her. She was just there, and I was fine with her. It's ever since they totally changed her ethics and personality to appeal to basement dwellers that made me hate her. But this is current Japan... any female who isn't sexualised isn't really popular.

 

[pretty done]

I'm curious. Is that sarcasm?

Could be a joke. But you never know.

I just saw his name and figured that in the end, it doesn't even maaaaaatteeeeer

 

[Dr. Buni]

Yeah, I don't get the hate. I like her better than Cloud, Squall, Tidus and Vaan, to say the least.

 

[HolyBaikal]

Character development used to be the staple of the FF franchise, and so far FF XII and FF XIII have had basically 0 character development

Final Fantasy XIII, what I played, had character development. Not as good of character development as there could have been. But various characters clearly develop. Character development, isn't by and of itself, good. And some people simply don't like the characterization of various characters.

People speak of not liking how Lightning doesn't have much character development over the course of the game. And yet, in Final Fantasy X, Tidus had plenty of character development in comparison to Auron, who had little at all. And yet, Auron seems far more popular character than Tidus, because people like the "badass archetype" that Auron belongs to, and like to whine about young male characters with parental complexes. Lightning, too, is a badass archetype which seems to sacrifice character development for trying to seem cool and non-nonsense.

Your talk of Final Fantasy XII does example some of my biggest problems with Final Fantasy XII, though. Final Fantasy XII definitely had things going for it. But it has problems. And I find it overrated. Especially for the fact the character development in Final Fantasy XII is very poor. Exactly how much character development do characters like Penelo or any character in Final Fantasy XII get? Very limited. Characters like Ashe seem to get the most character development, and she still isn't very interesting.

I find the fascination with Balthier and Fran to be uninteresting and annoying. Because he's "cool" and adult, and Fran is an almost naked bunny girl. Basch is far more interesting to me than Balthier. And his character still lacks some to be desired.

 

[PK Gaming]

I used to like her (purely based on her appearance alone, mind you), but she's overstayed her welcome.

 

[Esura]

Except Lightning isn't a teenager, she's 21 in FF13. Most people would have grown up quite a bit by then, especially ones who have to care for younger siblings. Lightning had to undergo some degree of training and discipline to enlist in Guardian Corps. 'Teenage soldier' is not an excuse that will fly. But Lightning, oh no, parent trauma, lash out with anger, omg, can't you see how great of a character she is? Sorry, there's just no excuses.

What Dark Octave outlined is the difference between a woman of character and a woman lacking character. The comparison is fairly apt considering similarities between the two. Obviously, one is worth much more respect than the other.

Well yeah there is no excuses when you just handwave away the reasoning for her behavior because it doesn't suit you. I mean, anyone could do that.

The comparison isn't apt at all. The Boss is 40-50 year old woman who is a damn veteran and war hero and literally a legend, had a child, been through countless conflicts and wars...to a kid (Lightning's a kid compared to The Boss) that is some low leveled soldier taking care of her sister.

 

[BigDaddyFatSack]

Because every time people see her, they're reminded of a bad FF game with a bad storyline with bad cast of characters.

I personally like her.

 

[Daymos]

I really liked Lightnings character in 13, nearly loved her.. but Hope, Snow, and Vanille were TERRIBLE, they were like 16 bit characters ripped from ff6 and given voice, completely unrealistic. Then you had Sazh and Fang which were more ripped from hollywood movies and still pretty stale, and Sara was more ripped from 90210 or whatever the current dumb teen show is (yes I'm that old).

Lightning though, she had some decent character growth and virtually no cringe worthy moments in the whole game (I think, I was eventually blinded by my 'like' of her). I could see her in a bioware game easily which is a big compliment since they have certainly surpased Square when it comes to telling a story.

 

[Ouroboros]

I never really connected to her as a character. Nothing really relatable other than caring for a sibling.

 

[Toth]

Except Lightning isn't a teenager, she's 21 in FF13. Most people would have grown up quite a bit by then, especially ones who have to care for younger siblings. Lightning had to undergo some degree of training and discipline to enlist in Guardian Corps. 'Teenage soldier' is not an excuse that will fly. But Lightning, oh no, parent trauma, lash out with anger, omg, can't you see how great of a character she is? Sorry, there's just no excuses.

What Dark Octave outlined is the difference between a woman of character and a woman lacking character. The comparison is fairly apt considering similarities between the two. Obviously, one is worth much more respect than the other.

Oh she's 21 >< I forget that fact. I am just so used to FF leads being teens lol. Still, Esura did say it best. The Boss is one a different league than Lightning and its like comparing SW Episode 3 to Citizen Kane.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

on top of a lot of things her original character designs had a much stronger looking persona. then they decided to unnecessarily change it,

 

[Midou]

I associate her with the central character in the Final Fantasy that is to me the worst Final Fantasy, her personality is boring, her outfit grows increasingly worse with each entry, I think its more curious anyone likes Lightning to be honest.

FFXIII hate threads are boring now though, everything has already been said 1000 times.

 

[Esura]

That's bull.

Squall throughout disc 1 is changing. There's plenty of moments where he's already growing attached to his friends. All of disc 2 it's the same. His so called "abrupt" change is basically just him realizing he can't stop caring about the people he loves no matter how much he tried to. He already felt all of those feelings and that was what he was scared to show.

And Squall liked Rinoa when he met her at the dance. People need to remember that Squall acts like he doesn't care but we know he's actually very insecure and cares what people think of him.

This isn't true. Squall's just happens with out dialogue. Moments like at Festival where he doesn't just get up and leave shows he was growing and getting more used to his comrades. At the start of the game he would have just left and completely ignored Rinoa.

Hell when she pushes him down he reacts, and starts yelling. This is a huge step for him, but people just write it off. Could he have used more time to develope? Yes. However it's not nearly as abrupt as people like to make it out to be.

Eh, I'll take you all's word for it. I don't remember Squall having much context in his development but I don't remember all the details either. I really should replay FFVIII one of these days.

 

[flatearthpandas]

But I think what the game had going for it was a somewhat likable character in a sea of generic anime tropes.

That character was called Sazh.
I don't mind Lightning, but I don't like how Squeenix is shoving her down our throats worse than they did with Vaan and Penelo. I just don't like FFXIII.

 

[air jordans for dogs]

I feel like the only people that like that character is the same people that post about their "waifus"

 

[Palmer_v1]

I don't hate Lightning. I just hate the games she's in.

 

[Trojita]

Lightning didn't even seem like a military vet.

At first when I saw the scene where she was on duty and supposedly still wearing her regular clothes I reconciled the fact that I'm fine with people being able to wear what they feel comfortable to get the job done. The thing was that it just seemed like she was working security for a civilian party, I'd be hesitant to ever call her a military veteran. The Guardian Corps is a joke.

Final Fantasy 7 was different. We were made to believe

Spoiler

Cloud was a Soldier 1st Class, the finest fighters of the most powerful corporation in the world (which is so powerful it is pretty much its own national power and is the most powerful nation in the world). Then we find out that Cloud's belief he is a Soldier 1st Class was due to trauma that affected his memory and caused him to adopt some of Zack's life (His position as Soldier 1st Class, His clothing and weapon of choice, his place in past events such as Nibelheim), while having a personality that is cold, distant, and sardonic. We find out that Cloud never even made Soldier, not even Soldier 3rd Class. He was a grunt that was too ashamed to return home as a failure in his eyes. Him not being a Soldier 1st Class also makes total sense gameplay wise, which rarely happens. There is a reason he is so weak at the beginning of the game.

 

[dramatis]

Well yeah there is no excuses when you just handwave away the reasoning for her behavior because it doesn't suit you. I mean, anyone could do that.

The comparison isn't apt at all. The Boss is 40-50 year old woman who is a damn veteran and war hero and literally a legend, had a child, been through countless conflicts and wars...to a kid (Lightning's a kid compared to The Boss) that is some low leveled soldier taking care of her sister.

Lightning hasn't had the experience of the Boss, but Lightning has undergone training (presumably), has had to take care of her sister after the passing of her parents (tragedy and responsibility), and frankly her attitude throughout 13 does not reflect on a mature twenty-one year old. Apparently the father passed when she was young, the mother passed when she was fifteen, which means she had six years to grow up, which Lightning apparently did not do even while getting some army training.

Lightning's not a kid, just an adult acting like one. At 21, clearly the Boss was 'just a kid', wasn't she? But she was planning raids and bombings and participated in many missions. Meanwhile Lightning can't handle her own sister and flops around on her major decisions in 13, one minute just deciding to sneak through to Eden and attack Sanctum on her own (not much of a plan), and at the drop of a hat changing her mind.

I'm not handwaving. Lightning's motivations are flimsy. There's logical reasoning to suggest she should be much more mature than she is at the beginning of 13. Her subsequent actions reflect an even more shaky, immature, and indecisive character whose actions are subject to whim more than conviction and commitment. If she had followed through on her crusade against Sanctum despite her personal revelations I would be more impressed, because that would show Lightning thought through what destroying Sanctum meant for Cocoon and understood consequences.

We ended up with a posing strong female character.

 

[Zoe]

Lightning didn't even seem like a military vet.

At first when I saw the scene where she was on duty and supposedly still wearing her regular clothes I reconciled the fact that I'm fine with people being able to wear what they feel comfortable to get the job done. The thing was that it just seemed like she was working security for a civilian party, I'd be hesitant to ever call her a military veteran. The Guardian Corps is a joke.

IIRC, they were just glorified monster detail. NORA was trying to do what they were doing.

 

[Esura]

Lightning hasn't had the experience of the Boss, but Lightning has undergone training (presumably), has had to take care of her sister after the passing of her parents (tragedy and responsibility), and frankly her attitude throughout 13 does not reflect on a mature twenty-one year old. Apparently the father passed when she was young, the mother passed when she was fifteen, which means she had six years to grow up, which Lightning apparently did not do even while getting some army training.

Lightning's not a kid, just an adult acting like one. At 21, clearly the Boss was 'just a kid', wasn't she? But she was planning raids and bombings and participated in many missions. Meanwhile Lightning can't handle her own sister and flops around on her major decisions in 13, one minute just deciding to sneak through to Eden and attack Sanctum on her own (not much of a plan), and at the drop of a hat changing her mind.

I'm not handwaving. Lightning's motivations are flimsy. There's logical reasoning to suggest she should be much more mature than she is at the beginning of 13. Her subsequent actions reflect an even more shaky, immature, and indecisive character whose actions are subject to whim more than conviction and commitment. If she had followed through on her crusade against Sanctum despite her personal revelations I would be more impressed, because that would show Lightning thought through what destroying Sanctum meant for Cocoon and understood consequences.

We ended up with a posing strong female character.

Even mature individuals could lose their composure and reasoning in times of crisis. Her sister became a L'cie and ended up crystallized. Also she became an L'cie herself in the process and is stuck with a group of random people and her sister's fiance she doesn't even like in order to survive. Just because she's 21 and had to raise her sister doesn't mean she is just capable of handling everything like that.

Also, just because you are 21 doesn't mean you are able to handle the same things as another 21 year old or would react to certain situations the same way The circumstances behind their lives and the events that shapes them are entirely different, and let's not forget that in The Boss's 20s it was the 1940s of our world and Lightning is in a closed up, highly advanced world in the sky with mechanical gods running their world.

I figured that was the point, that Lightning deep down wasn't this highly mature individual and has numerous flaws she eventually came to grips with by the end just like every other character in the game.

 

[Kuja9001]

Some of these responses are "interesting"