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[PumpkinSpice]

I'm really late to replying here but I think it's very valuable to compare OP's question with "Why are the Dragon Quest games popular inside Japan?"

The Dragon Quest series' success in Japan today is largely due to it being a well known series that everyone and their dog has played. I'd even argue the continued success is based mostly on nostalgia, but even if everyone isn't as into them as I am, the games are consistently good. They are also easy for newcomers as they require little skill to beat since they're turn based and you can always fall back on grinding. In short, if you buy a Dragon Quest game you know you're getting something fun.

If you trace back how Dragon Quest got to be a game that everyone knows is good, it's because in 1986 RPGs were a hot new thing on a very popular platform with little in the way of high quality software as competition. By the time Dragon Quest 3 came out in 88 the series was reaching new technical achievements (battery backed up saves! huge worlds! long story!) and the game was a huge hit. It was about as big as Mario 3 was in the rest of the world.

It reminds me a lot of Mario, actually. Why is Mario so popular? Well because the games are consistently good and everyone has fond memories of past Mario games.

But in the rest of the world, in the US/Canada specifically since releases elsewhere have been even more inconsistent, Dragon Quest never had those advantages. 1986 came and went with no release here, 87, 88, and most of 89 as well. By the time Dragon Warrior came out, more than a year after Dragon Quest 3 exploded in Japan, even with the enhancements made for localization, it was a dated game that didn't look like a 1989 NES release. Being punishingly hard and very basic in mechanics didn't help either, especially with other more complicated post-Dragon Quest RPGs having made their way over. Not to mention the competition for NES games in 1989 was insane, just a banner year for the platform.

And of course we all know it flopped so bad that Nintendo gave the game away with Nintendo Power to get rid of copies, in the hopes to maybe spark interest in RPGs.

Maybe it helped out Final Fantasy but it certainly didn't help Dragon Quest cause Dragon Warriors 2 through 4, also released super late, also bombed. Each one worse than the last. Then nothing came out for the rest of the 90s as other RPGs blew up. Finally Enix had a chance to try again with Dragon Quest, and, while I really like Dragon Warrior VII, it releasing so late on PS1 in Japan made it come out a year after the PS2 came out here which was just too late for that game. Even the Monsters games, with the limited success they enjoyed, weren't enough. Series dead a few more years.

So now you're at #8 in the series, nobody remembers 1 through 7, how could any Dragon Quest game possibly do well at this point? I mean, considering where they were, DQ8 did fairly well, and credit where it's due they kept trying with DQ9 doing even better. But the bombing of the remakes, and the Joker games plus #10 being an MMO led to another gap in releases and another missing numbered entry.

So now we're at #11 today. Mainstream gamers do not know about Dragon Quest the same way they do about Final Fantasy. You can find out how hardcore gamers think of the series by reading some of the posts in this thread. A new round of remakes and spinoffs now being localized and not doing so well. Any bets on how well #11 will do?

Honestly it's too bad Nintendo & Enix didn't just release Dragon Warrior 3 in 1989. You would have missed the story tie-in with the earlier games but it was just a way more appropriate game for the time.

 

[ghibli99]

Presentation isn't one of DQ's strengths. It looks fine and appeals to those who already love DQ, but it doesn't have that "wow" factor that attracts new players unfamiliar with the franchise. I think the same thing is true for something like Mario... most of my friends who aren't into Nintendo games aren't going to be swayed by the latest entry, even though fans will buy the next one with little-to-no hesitation.

I regret writing DQ7 off back in the PS1 generation. I played it almost a decade later, and it became one of my all-time favorite entries in the series; I now like DQ more than FF in an overall sense.

 

[Piers]

I don't like how conservative the franchise is. Games like Zelda and Final Fantasy shake up things with entirely new settings and atmosphere, and try to freshen up the experience. Even Pokémon tries to go for thematically new settings, and whilst the monster designs are the same across each game there's an obvious gameplay reason for that.

I know it's not the case but I feel like I've seen every Dragon Quest game when seeing one product. The style and vibe quickly gets dull for me. I get that Japan is all about tradition but the West isn't.

To put it another way, DQ has the same syndrome as NSMB for me, where the gameplay experience is obviously refined to a T, and great, but the art style and atmosphere is done to fucking death.

 

[sibarraz]

Why is DQ so big in Japan? it seems like is really ingrained in the popular culture there, but I never knew why it got so big there

 

[SpiceMelange]

Why is DQ so big in Japan? it seems like is really ingrained in the popular culture there, but I never knew why it got so big there

DQ1 was a casual approchable consolized version of Ultima. 2 and 3 were incredibly ambitious nes game for their release years. Especially 3 with the day night system and including 2 world maps. The series caught on from that bedrock. DQ1 came out too late in the US to impress

 

[Merrydeath]

It's not flashy enough and the West doesn't look at it through rose-tinded glasses so it comes off as lazy and outdated instead of nostalgic.
Also people might have played DQ7 and mistook the series for RPGs with shitty menus, mindless battles and meh story that go on forever.

If they hope to have any chance of mainstream appeal, they need to repeat what they did with VIII; include voice acting and orchestrated music. And market it successfully like Nintendo did with IX. Not sure what kind of angle they should take for that, though.
I hope they figure something out because I don't want the series to die again in the West.



What? Heroes bombed in the West. DQ7 (and 8) came because French fans sent enough letters for SE to reconsider and Nintendo paid half of the localisation bill for DQ7.

Ah, I forgot about that for DQ 7. Thanks for the correction.
What was the sale chart for DQ Heroes? I thought DQ heroes 2 bombed

 

[Merrydeath]

Why is DQ so big in Japan? it seems like is really ingrained in the popular culture there, but I never knew why it got so big there

First Major console RPG in Japan that combine the elements of Wizardry and Ultima.
Also having a renowned artist like Akria toriyama illustrations of his monster designs. It release at the right timing,
Also influences games like Final Fantasy and other RPGs.

 

[Cheerilee]

Thinking about the "bad graphics" argument for why Dragon Quest doesn't succeed in the West, it leads me to think of a counter-argument, "Nintendo", and something I was thinking about the series in general (not just in the West).

Final Fantasy 7 kicked off Square's trend towards "graphics matter" while Dragon Quest 7 kicked off Enix's trend towards "graphics don't matter". For DQ8, Enix's philosophy had shifted to "graphics don't matter... but we have them". Do you know who else had that exact same policy at that time? Nintendo, with the GameCube. Enix was running with the exact same mixed message that Nintendo was running with, at the exact same time as Nintendo.

Like Square, Enix had pulled an N64 betrayalton, but Enix didn't burn their bridges like Square did, supporting the N64 with games like Mischief Makers and Wonder Project J2. And Enix was still making GameBoy games. In the early GameCube era, Satoru Iwata was supposedly tasked with seeking out Japanese developers and encouraging them to come back to Nintendo, and he did a great job. Tons of lost Japanese support came flooding back.

So why didn't DQ8 go multiplatform, PS2/GameCube? Apparently because of a new rule (retroactively applied), saying that Dragon Quest is too good for anyone who isn't market leader. They missed out on the easily-available GameCube market, and could've been a big fish in a small pond, but instead they left that money on the table to be scooped up by games like Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos, and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.

And then, if DQ8 had been multiplatform PS2/GameCube, it would've been all that much easier to make DQ9 a Wii game, using the DQ8 game engine. That "graphics don't matter... but we have them" approach would've been much more popular in the West than the pure "graphics don't matter" approach Squarenix took with DQ when they moved the franchise to handhelds.

 

[jiggle]

They should pack in a ffviir demo with xi

 

[entremet]

JRPGs outside of FF and Pokemon aren't that popular either. If we're using popular as the term. FF got a huge boost from FFVII, which changed the trajectory of the series in the West for the good. Pokemon is Pokemon. The rest are rather niche games. Persona is growing a nice audience, but I wouldn't call it popular either. The rest are middle tier budget games or below that have a consistent and dedicated audience.

The biggest surprise franchise--Souls--is an action RPG, which do better in the West as well. I forgot about Kingdom Hearts, but that has Disney backing to help.

 

[Aters]

Thinking about the "bad graphics" argument for why Dragon Quest doesn't succeed in the West, it leads me to think of a counter-argument, "Nintendo", and something I was thinking about the series in general (not just in the West).

Final Fantasy 7 kicked off Square's trend towards "graphics matter" while Dragon Quest 7 kicked off Enix's trend towards "graphics don't matter". For DQ8, Enix's philosophy had shifted to "graphics don't matter... but we have them". Do you know who else had that exact same policy at that time? Nintendo, with the GameCube. Enix was running with the exact same mixed message that Nintendo was running with, at the exact same time as Nintendo.

Like Square, Enix had pulled an N64 betrayalton, but Enix didn't burn their bridges like Square did, supporting the N64 with games like Mischief Makers and Wonder Project J2. And Enix was still making GameBoy games. In the early GameCube era, Satoru Iwata was supposedly tasked with seeking out Japanese developers and encouraging them to come back to Nintendo, and he did a great job. Tons of lost Japanese support came flooding back.

So why didn't DQ8 go multiplatform, PS2/GameCube? Apparently because of a new rule (retroactively applied), saying that Dragon Quest is too good for anyone who isn't market leader. They missed out on the easily-available GameCube market, and could've been a big fish in a small pond, but instead they left that money on the table to be scooped up by games like Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos, and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.

And then, if DQ8 had been multiplatform PS2/GameCube, it would've been all that much easier to make DQ9 a Wii game, using the DQ8 game engine. That "graphics don't matter... but we have them" approach would've been much more popular in the West than the pure "graphics don't matter" approach Squarenix took with DQ when they moved the franchise to handhelds.

That's a cool idea. DQVIII missing GC was indeed a shame. Enix always have good relationship with Nintendo. I think maybe Sony have something to do with it. They helped with the merge and they held some stock. SE probably didn't want to piss them off by making their biggest franchise multiplatform.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Part of it is that it's just a monolith of nostalgia in Japan. I don't think that there's a single IP that has the same sort of nostalgia factor to it in the west. Maybe Star Wars and/or Star Trek? (talking movies/TV only, not games)

I think that's the major piece, honestly. Millions and millions of Japanese people have warm and fuzzy memories of playing Dragon Quest on the Famicom and Super Famicom. The games simply never got the same push outside of Japan

The games heavily bank on nostalgia with each entry, too. So many archaic holdovers that continue to be done because they make the games "feel" like Dragon Quest, but would be railed against if it were a new series with no IP legacy.

 

[Renegade Frost]

I think that's the major piece, honestly. Millions and millions of Japanese people have warm and fuzzy memories of playing Dragon Quest on the Famicom and Super Famicom. The games simply never got the same push outside of Japan

The games heavily bank on nostalgia with each entry, too. So many archaic holdovers that continue to be done because they make the games "feel" like Dragon Quest, but would be railed against if it were a new series with no IP legacy.

I actually remember the commercials for DQIX in the US,

my reaction back then was basically " Meh I'll keep playing my 2D games, dont want any 3D games lol"


Still sold pretty decently

 

[Rizzi]

Large gaps between localisation, not releasing any games until the 8th in the series in PAL territories and no effort put forth towards marketing outside of Japan. Not really a huge mystery why it's not popular.

 

[kpaadet]

The art style, it's like Dragon Ball except way uglier. No thank you.

 

[Stairouais]

*sigh*

 

[SkylineRKR]

VIII kind of came out in Europe. For the first time in god knows how long. The series is also very traditional, might be offputting to a lot of gamers out there.

I had VII on PS1 and to be honest I couldn't get through it. Its supposed to pick up after an x amount of hours but the ugly graphics didn't help much either.

But after FFXV, give me this stuff any day. I'm playing FFXII right now and it might be my GOTY. I enjoy it as much, perhaps more, than Persona 5. Can't wait for DQ XI. I'm ready.

 

[kikiribu]

"Too Japanese"
"Too anime"
"Too turn-based"
"Too much dialogue"

 

[Ridley327]

Presentation isn't one of DQ's strengths. It looks fine and appeals to those who already love DQ, but it doesn't have that "wow" factor that attracts new players unfamiliar with the franchise. I think the same thing is true for something like Mario... most of my friends who aren't into Nintendo games aren't going to be swayed by the latest entry, even though fans will buy the next one with little-to-no hesitation.

I regret writing DQ7 off back in the PS1 generation. I played it almost a decade later, and it became one of my all-time favorite entries in the series; I now like DQ more than FF in an overall sense.

Mario seems like a bad comparison here, since those games put up monster numbers no matter the region. Squenix would kill for DQ to have that kind of built-in appeal on the world stage.

 

[Watcher of the Skies]

After reading everything i really want to play the complete saga (right now i have too much free time), i need some advices, my favorite JRPG saga and saga in general is Final Fantasy (i finished from I to XV) and i love them all (Even the dead end dungeons in FFII), wich version of each game should i play? Any basic advices ?

 

[Merrydeath]

After reading everything i really want to play the complete saga (right now i have too much free time), i need some advices, my favorite JRPG saga and saga in general is Final Fantasy (i finished from I to XV) and i love them all (Even the dead end dungeons in FFII), wich version of each game should i play? Any basic advices ?

DQ 1, 2, 3 for updated graphics and some fixes (especially DQ 2 difficulty) snes or GBC or mobile
DQ 4: DS or mobile
DQ 5: DS or mobile
DQ 6: DS
DQ 7: This choice is up to you on PS1 or 3ds. If you are unable to find the ps1 version. 3ds is for you
DQ 8 : Same goes to this. If you want a bit of additional content. Then 3ds.
DQ 9 has no port and only on the DS.
DQ 10 has no western release date and I don't think it ever will considering its a MMO.

 

[Cheerilee]

After reading everything i really want to play the complete saga (right now i have too much free time), i need some advices, my favorite JRPG saga and saga in general is Final Fantasy (i finished from I to XV) and i love them all (Even the dead end dungeons in FFII), wich version of each game should i play? Any basic advices ?

The best advice is to visit the Dragon Quest Community Thread.

Dragon Quest 1 is basically the prototype JRPG, so you need to approach it with a different mindset from someone just looking to satisfy their latest JRPG craving. It's a very basic game by most any standard, and it's very grindy. DQ2 was a much better game (pretty much on par with Final Fantasy 1, which came out at the same time, having also learned from DQ1). DQ3 reached peak JRPG. Every DQ after DQ2 is just a question of which game you like more.

Speaking for myself, my favorite way to play DQ1 is either fan-translated SNES (maximum comfort) or Dragon Warrior 1 on the NES (maximum nostalgia). But plenty of people seem to like playing it with touchscreen controls on their iPhones. I don't understand those people, but more power to them.

 

[Watcher of the Skies]

DQ 1, 2, 3 for updated graphics and some fixes (especially DQ 2 difficulty) snes or GBC or mobile
DQ 4: DS or mobile
DQ 5: DS or mobile
DQ 6: DS
DQ 7: This choice is up to you on PS1 or 3ds. If you are unable to find the ps1 version. 3ds is for you
DQ 8 : Same goes to this. If you want a bit of additional content. Then 3ds.
DQ 9 has no port and only on the DS.
DQ 10 has no western release date and I don't think it ever will considering its a MMO.

The best advice is to visit the Dragon Quest Community Thread.

Dragon Quest 1 is basically the prototype JRPG, so you need to approach it with a different mindset from someone just looking to satisfy their latest JRPG craving. It's a very basic game by most any standard, and it's very grindy. DQ2 was a much better game (pretty much on par with Final Fantasy 1, which came out at the same time, having also learned from DQ1). DQ3 reached peak JRPG. Every DQ after DQ2 is just a question of which game you like more.

Speaking for myself, my favorite way to play DQ1 is either fan-translated SNES (maximum comfort) or Dragon Warrior 1 on the NES (maximum nostalgia). But plenty of people seem to like playing it with touchscreen controls on their iPhones. I don't understand those people, but more power to them.

Thanks a lot, i don't mind grind that much (can't be worse than filling the sphere grid for all characters in FFX), thank god i just bought a 3DS,
Almost forgot thanks for the thread.

 

[djtiesto]

As a western gamer, I just do not have any interest in JRPG titles.

I'm a western gamer, and I have no interest in western titles.

 

[djtiesto]

DQ has consistently innovated on gameplay mechanics within JRPGs, to the best of my knowledge.

DQ2 was the first JRPG I know of that contained the entirety of the predecessor's region within it. (Sort of like Pokemon R/B inside G/S).

DQ3 had to my knowledge the job system that lets you change jobs feely / master multiple jobs. Also the first to have a day/night cycle unless you count Zelda 2 as a JRPG. I think different monsters would come out at night, but for sure dialogue and available quests changed from day to night.

DQ4 had the first AI controlled characters that fought by your side (for more than a brief battle). Storywise, it may be the first with multiple character threads that get interwoven.

DQ5 had the first monster recruiting/raising. It went on to inspire Pokemon. (Edit: while DQ5 was the first game released and it likely influenced Pokemon, Pokemon's creator mentioned a different inspiration dating to 1990). DQV was also the first JRPG to (story spoiler)

Spoiler

unfold across multiple generations.

, to my knowledge.

DQ6, I'm not aware of any major milestones but it's not exactly my favorite. Was this the first JRPG to have a casino with complete minigames?

DQ7 was late to the party. I still like it but no gameplay innovations come to mind.

DQ8, at least in my mind, was the first "open world JRPG". By this I mean many JRPGs had world maps, but virtually all of them were on a different scale (often the characters are the size of cities). In DQ 8, proportions are roughly maintained -- your characters enter the city and are the same size. Some other more linear games might technically have this feature (Earthbound or some of the SaGa games perhaps), but DQ8 really gives the sense you can travel anywhere in the world that you can see.

DQ9 may be the first turn-based JRPG to allow for multiple system co-op (I believe online as well as local).

There are more story "firsts" as well but I don't really want to spoil any, plus there might be some obscure game I don't know that did it sooner.

I would argue DQ may feel "generic" because what it does, it does well, and typically gets copied elsewhere.

While this is a great writeup, I'll have to correct you on a few things. The generational system was first introduced in Phantasy Star 3, which predated DQ5 by at least a year. And the first 3D open world (there were quite a number of 2D and prerendered graphics open world games, most notably the SaGa series) Japanese RPG was Skies of Arcadia. SEGA does with Enix don't

 

[Pepboy]

While this is a great writeup, I'll have to correct you on a few things. The generational system was first introduced in Phantasy Star 3, which predated DQ5 by at least a year. And the first 3D open world (there were quite a number of 2D and prerendered graphics open world games, most notably the SaGa series) Japanese RPG was Skies of Arcadia. SEGA does with Enix don't

Thank you for the correction regarding Phantasy Star 3. I had forgotten that one as I haven't played it yet.

But regarding Skies of Arcadia, most of the traveling around the world takes place in a flying ship (which I love). I agree it was relatively open world but I think it's conceptually not that different from FF6 or 7.

Perhaps I defined it poorly, but what I meant is that the scale of the world does not change when you travel on the world map. Like Witcher 3, everything between two cities is on the same scale as the city itself -- the characters don't change size in and out of the city. SaGa fits this criteria but to the best of my knowledge is not really "open" since it was more like Legend of Heroes or FFX-2 right? Like the scale between cities is the maintained but usually is narrow corridors.

 

[Rising_Hei]

To me, personally, and from what i've played:

It's a series that barely evolded or tried to evolved its gameplay

Didn't evolve many aspects of it, music, battlesystem, the stories don't go deep... they almost feel like a wathered down version of Pablo Coelho's The Alchemist etc

That's the main appeal for people that loves the series, but JRPGs in west are liked more when there's certain complexity on its story and more dynamic and progressive gameplay that tries to evolve over the years (imo), hence why Final Fantasy has always done better in the west

I hated VIII mostly because i simply don't dig the classical JRPG battle system where you input all commands from every character at once and then watch until they and the enemies do their thingies.

 

[DVCY201]

I never knew about this franchise. I just don't think it was marketed well. The first title I played was Builders. Lucky for SE it made me an instant fan. I'm looking forward to XI, and looking at picking up the older titles.

 

[Nista]

I will admit that most of the failure of the series in the west is due to poor business decisions by Enix and lousy marketing, but I still love Dragon Quest dearly as an RPG series.

One of my favorite DQ stories was years ago in college - I studied in Japan for a semester. I had a crotchety old guy as my ceramics instructor, and it was sometimes hard to get things across since I wasn't fluent at all. I decided to decorate one of my bowls with the Loto bird symbol, since it was something pretty easy to draw freehand with slip. When he saw it he was amazed, he had never had a foreign student who liked dragon quest before. He told me all about how he and his son would play those games together, and enjoy their shared adventures. He ended up becoming one of my favorite teachers there.

I still have that little bowl, 20 years later. It reminds me that even back then that gaming could bring very dissimilar people together.

 

[also]

Ah, I forgot about that for DQ 7. Thanks for the correction.
What was the sale chart for DQ Heroes? I thought DQ heroes 2 bombed

In the US it sold ~31k copies on PS4 when it launched. On steamspy it's currently at ~50k.

 

[ULTROS!]

In the US it sold ~31k copies on PS4 when it launched. On steamspy it's currently at ~50k.

I find it interesting that DQB probably sold more than DQH in the West. I think around 600-700k in JP, 300-400k in the rest of the world (basing this off on the 1.1m sales WW).

 

[NSESN]

I find it interesting that DQB probably sold more than DQH in the West. I think around 600-700k in JP, 300-400k in the rest of the world (basing this off on the 1.1m sales WW).

Asia is a huge part of the sales tho.

 

[also]

I find it interesting that DQB probably sold more than DQH in the West. I think around 600-700k in JP, 300-400k in the rest of the world (basing this off on the 1.1m sales WW).

DQH= unpopular series + mildly popular at best genre
DQB= unpopular series + minecraft

I don't think it's that surprising.
They really messed up by first using a proprietary Sony engine and then dissolving the Builders' team after development finished. A multiplatform sequel with multiplayer would have definitely helped expand the series popularity in the West.

 

[Violet_0]

I think you might be vastly overestimating the appeal of old-school JRPGs in the West these days. Okay, so Persona 5 did pretty well, but the Persona series is basically the Dark Souls of JRPGs, a cult classic; and I'll just go and claim that most people buy them for the life sim part, not the dungeon crawling gameplay

 

[Fiendcode]

I find it interesting that DQB probably sold more than DQH in the West. I think around 600-700k in JP, 300-400k in the rest of the world (basing this off on the 1.1m sales WW).

Tracked retail sellthrough in Japan was almost 700k alone. More like 850-900k Japan, 200-250k elsewhere if we're spitballing.

 

[water_wendi]

i have no idea of sales numbers or whatever but just anecdotally Dragon Warrior 2 killed interest in the series. The battles were slow and boring with the only scenery the entire game is a black background. Everyone i knew played and loved Dragon Warrior 1 because of the Nintendo Power giveaway. DW2 came out and there was a collective "No, thanks."

edit:

DQ2 was the first JRPG I know of that contained the entirety of the predecessor's region within it. (Sort of like Pokemon R/B inside G/S).

i was super excited to see that the entirety of Alefgard was included in DW2. The reality is that this is a lie. The shape of the continent is there but the scale, the landmarks, and the towns are gone..

 

[Zeouterlimits]

The stigma of it seeming old fashioned / very traditional?
Maybe it's the style?
Visual and to a lesser extent gameplay.

I think given the lack of notalgia they don't manage to do a lot to excite people who are new to the series?
I bought IX because of how loved it is in the East and... didn't stick with it.

 

[Danjin44]

Then in the Ps2 era I tried to get into VIII but I still couldn't. It just al felt so bland and generic from the characters to the story and particularly the world. I played it for at least 25 hours and can't really remember a single memorable city, place or character in that game.

Really!!? Im playing through DQ8 and it my experience with the series I absolutely loving the characters and the story so far.

The simple answer is in the west they prefers realistic graphics over anime art style. Even though FF wasn't hyper realistic but it was much more realistic looking than DQ games. If u ask your average gamer in west to choose between FFXV or DQ11 in terms visual, most of them prefer FFXV over DQ11.