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[saelz8]

If innovations in housework helped free women to enter the labor force in the 1960s and 1970s, could innovations in leisure — like League of Legends — be taking men out of the labor force today?

That's the logic behind a new working paper released on Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research. The paper — by the economists Erik Hurst, Mark Aguiar, Mark Bils and Kerwin Charles — argues that video games help explain why younger men are working fewer hours.

That claim got a lot of attention last year when the University of Chicago published a graduation speech given by Mr. Hurst at its business school, where he discussed some of his preliminary findings. He says the paper is now ready to be read by the public.

By 2015, American men 31 to 55 were working about 163 fewer hours a year than that same age group did in 2000. Men 21 to 30 were working 203 fewer hours a year. One puzzle is why the working hours for young men fell so much more than those of their older counterparts. The gap between the two groups grew by about 40 hours a year, or a full workweek on average.

Other experts have pointed to a host of reasons — globalization, technological change, the shift to service work — that employers may not be hiring young men. Instead of looking at why employers don't want young men, this group of economists considered a different question: Why don't young men want to work?

Mr. Hurst and his colleagues estimate that, since 2004, video games have been responsible for reducing the amount of work that young men do by 15 to 30 hours over the course of a year. Using the recession as a natural experiment, the authors studied how people who suddenly found themselves with extra time spent their leisure hours, then estimated how increases in video game time affected work.

Between 2004 and 2015, young men's leisure time grew by 2.3 hours a week. A majority of that increase — 60 percent — was spent playing video games, according to government time use surveys. In contrast, young women's leisure time grew by 1.4 hours a week. A negligible amount of that extra time was spent on video games. Likewise for older men and older women: Neither group reported having spent any meaningful extra free time playing video games.

The analysis excluded full-time students, and showed that the amount of time young men spent on household chores or child care was not going up.

In some ways, the increase in video game time for men makes sense: Median wages for men have been stagnant for decades. Over the same period, the quality of video games has grown significantly. In the 1990s, games like Mario Bros. were little more than eight-bit virtual toys. Today, you and your closest buddies can go on quests in games like World of Warcraft that can last for days.

Large, social video games did not become hugely popular until the release of World of Warcraft in late 2004. These games are very different from more rudimentary games like Pong and Space Invaders that older men grew up playing.

Experts say that the social aspect is particularly important.

”Games provide a sense of waking in the morning with one goal: I'm trying to improve this skill, teammates are counting on me, and my online community is relying on me," said Jane McGonigal, a video game scholar and game designer. ”There is a routine and daily progress that does a good job at replacing traditional work."

Adam Alter, a professor of marketing and psychology at New York University who studies digital addiction, highlighted the fact that, unlike TV shows or concerts, today's video games don't end.

Most forms of entertainment have some form of a stopping cue — signals that remind you that a certain act or episode is ending, like a commercial or a timer. ”Many video games don't have them," Mr. Alter said. ”They're built to be endless or have long-range goals that we don't like to abandon."

These characteristics make video games attractive to many people, and 41 percent of the American game-playing population are women, according to the video gaming advocacy group Entertainment Software Association. But this data showed no increase in video game time for women.

Mr. Hurst argues that women are more likely to choose the types of mobile games that people tend to play while doing something else, like riding in a car or standing in line. The time use survey captures only people's primary activity, not the secondary nature of casual mobile games like Candy Crush.

The analysis also did not count activities like using Facebook and Snapchat or browsing the web. Time spent on those activities did not grow as much as time spent on video games.

Some economists are skeptical of the conclusions, pointing out that the labor force participation rates for young men in other countries where video games are popular, like Japan, have not fallen in similar fashion.

But if we accept the authors' claim that some segment of men is dropping out of the labor force to play games, is that necessarily a bad thing?

Young non-college-educated men — the group most likely to be home playing games — are more likely to say that they are happy than similar men a decade ago. Older non-college-educated men are the unhappier ones.

According to Mr. Hurst, young men may simply be shuffling around the years in their life that they want to work. ”Why not have a little fun in your 20s and work in your 80s?" he said.

Of course, that assumes that young Americans who choose video games over work — a group for whom there is no historical data — will be able to find good jobs someday. And that they won't be seduced by the kinds of games available in 2070.

Source

Today's video games not ending is a good point, with the whole "Video Games as a Service" trend. Leage, WoW, PUBG, DOTA, CS:GO. There's no real conclusion, you just keep playing.

 

[GreatestHits]

Of all the reasons... really? I'm a little not surprised. Are they basically calling us Millenial Men lazy again?

 

[Escape Goat]

Some economists are skeptical of the conclusions, pointing out that the labor force participation rates for young men in other countries where video games are popular, like Japan, have not fallen in similar fashion.

That Japanese work ethic.

 

[Earthbound64]

Wasn't this posted here already?

EDIT: Here we go

 

[Cagey]

Of all the reasons... really? I'm a little not surprised. Are they basically calling us Millenial Men lazy again?

It's about the idea of the cost of leisure luxury being rock bottom low compared to the value obtained and it leading to choices about how to spend time: low level work for low wages or leisure luxury that requires minima cost upkeep.

 

[Foffy]

Video games remain one of the best arenas of escapism to a socially decaying landscape for massive amounts of people.

What is a rise in precarious living situations supposed to entail? Assimilation to an already decoupled framework that is not working as is?

Keep blaming other factors than that the basics of the 20th century, from an economic standpoint, have absolutely broken down in the 21st. Don't want to admit the elephant in the room until another crash or conflict, I'd imagine...

 

[Moose Biscuits]

This is the fifth time I have seen this thread.

 

[tomwhite2004]

so the amount of free time available increases and a fraction of that is spent on playing video games, whats the problem or great insight here?

 

[Alcotholic]

It's also not healthy to be Work obsessed. Is this a 1:1 correlation though? Are guys working less, because of video games?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Nothing in that text points to young men not wanting to work though. It just says they are spending a few more hours playing videogames, which is pretty normal when looking at the changing entertainment landscape over the past decades.

 

[GreatestHits]

It's about the idea of the cost of leisure luxury being rock bottom low compared to the value obtained and it leading to choices about how to spend time: low level work for low wages or leisure luxury that requires minima cost upkeep.

It just seems like the cost of living compared to income is at an all-time high. Maybe for those of us who are in great careers we can do this, but I believed the majority of the population in our age group were struggling to make it.

 

[saelz8]

Wasn't this posted here already?

EDIT: Here we go

Damn, didn't see that one. My bad.

Lock her up!

 

[Doominated]

Video games are OP, they need a nerf.

 

[Mendrox]

Well this is not that bad. Having to work fewer hours in general (imo 30 hours a week would be optimal, just cut 2 hours which are wasted by most every day) would also certainly help companies, because people would use their hours more effectivly.

 

[Timbuktu]

I prefer the way the Economist made the link between employment and video games in its article that has been discussed here before:

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2017/03/economist-explains-24

It the same group whose findings are being talked about?

To draw a firm conclusion, however, would take a clearer understanding of the direction of causation. While games improved since the turn of the century, labour-market options for young people got worse.
[...]
For people unable to find demanding, full-time work (or any work at all) gaming is often a way to spend some of one’s unwanted downtime, rather than a lure out of work; it is much more a symptom of other economic ills than a cause.

Games will go on getting better, and the share of jobless or underemployed young people choosing to game rather than focus on career will probably grow. That is not necessarily something to lament. Games are often rewarding and social, and time spent gaming sometimes displaces less healthy or rewarding pastimes. If the pull of work is not strong enough to overcome the desire to game, the first response should be to ask whether more can be done to prepare young people for good jobs—and to make sure that there are some around when those young people enter the workforce.

 

[Monocle]

Can't blame them honestly. Living to work is unbearable unless you're one of the lucky few who love their occupations.

 

[Ogodei]

That Japanese work ethic.

Japan also has a really tight labor supply such that there's more incentive to work because businesses need the labor.

 

[LakeEarth]

One thing I will say is that gaming prevents me from wanting to learn a useful, or lucrative hobby. My friend got into wood working and I'm jealous cause gaming isn't a great source of wealth unless you're really good or hit it big in the streaming world.

 

[clearacell]

not being able to find jobs is probably the biggest contributing factor. young men play more videogames than other demos, who knew? I bet there was an uptick in older people walking dogs or doing Tai Chi in parks.

 

[GreatestHits]

One thing I will say is that gaming prevents me from wanting to learn a useful, or lucrative hobby. My friend got into wood working and I'm jealous cause gaming isn't a great source of wealth unless you're really good or hit it big in the streaming world.

You ever thought about development? I mean your friend probably isn't streaming his woodworking or entering competitions for it. According to most devs, this is the golden age

More on topic, I think these numbers are skewed by kids living with parents before their lives truly begin, that are 100%ing The Witcher 3 in like 2 weeks

Edit: bingo

 

[Cagey]

It just seems like the cost of living compared to income is at an all-time high. Maybe for those of us who are in great careers we can do this, but I believed the majority of the population in our age group were struggling to make it.

Sure, the study looks at an increasing (not majority, just increasing thus signifying a trend) number of young men who choose to not enter that world at all, remain at home (often with parents and avoiding COL), and invest in the cheap costs of leisure luxury.

A 28 year old man in 1960 didn't have the opportunity to spend hours each day playing CounterStrike with thousands of people across the globe, interacting in real time, with the only recurring costs being electricity and internet and a one time purchase of a computer and a 20 dollar game. When home and not working, what was he to do to pass his time that was so enjoyable and worthwhile and affordable that it would lead him to choose it over low wage work?

Entertainment has exponentially improved and the cost is inversely proportional, and coupled with a tough economy, it's not an unexpected trend.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I got into my career because of my passion for gaming. While I left the industry and am happier for it I wouldn't be where I was today without gaming.

Now it's just nice to be able to afford my own shit and provide for my family.

Portable gaming tech changed the game for me. My commute would be intolerable without it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

dat 2017 release schedule putting in work

 

[StayDead]

Can't blame them honestly. Living to work is unbearable unless you're one of the lucky few who love their occupations.

Even then, I like my job but I still feel like I'm trapped for over half my waking life doing it.

 

[GreatestHits]

Portable gaming tech changed the game for me. My commute would be intolerable without it.

I too, catch my pokemans while swerving in and out of my lane on my way to work. *brofist*

 

[Foffy]

Well this is not that bad. Having to work fewer hours in general (imo 30 hours a week would be optimal, just cut 2 hours which are wasted by most every day) would also certainly help companies, because people would use their hours more effectivly.

Doesn't actual productivity peak in a work week before 35 hours on average, too?

The numbers I am thinking of range between 24-28 last I remember from one study, but I assume I could be off and they enter into the 30s.

They sure as shit do not continue when leaning to 40s; only health risks do.

 

[Grimalkin]

I can only speak to the United States but the entire country is facing a problem of its own making.

The fact is a large amount of young people aren't suited to go to college or higher education and learning a trade has been vilified by the culture at large for the last 20 years, not to mention that working a trade like construction has a definite shelf-life as it's hard on the human body. Blue collar manufacturing jobs have been sent overseas to places where human labor is cheap which is (imo) the inevitable conclusion of capitalism in a global marketplace.

Pair that with the fact that "classic" American culture does not encourage traits and behaviors that translate to academic success for boys. American parents are unintentionally conditioning their daughters to develop skills that end up in them performing better academically. Little girls are conditioned to sit quietly and play with dolls, read books (another quiet, stationary activity), and play nicely with other children. This leads to them being better able to tolerate the rigid structure and lack of physical activity in school.

I won't even get into the fact that getting a college education is no longer a guarantee of getting a good job once your graduate, but it's also a factor.

Putting it bluntly, there are not a lot of job opportunities for blue collar young men. When your options are working 12 hour shifts for $8-10/hr or living with your parents and perhaps working a low stress part time job, it's obvious which one is the more appealing choice. At $10/hr, even with a lot of overtime, you aren't making enough money to be able to support a family. You might make enough to live in a crappy apartment with a roommate but that's pretty much the cap on your standard of living at $10/hr.

Of course there is the third option of learning a trade and making $20/hr for a few years until you inevitably hurt yourself and can't work at all anymore, but it is my opinion that a lot of young men saw their fathers go that route and don't want that for themselves.

There just aren't a lot of choices for poor people in the world that's been created. So no, I don't blame them for preferring to sit at home and play video games.

 

[Foffy]

I can only speak to the United States but the entire country is facing a problem of its own making.

The fact is a large amount of young people aren't suited to go to college or higher education and learning a trade has been vilified by the culture at large for the last 20 years, not to mention that working a trade like construction has a definite shelf-life as it's hard on the human body. Blue collar manufacturing jobs have been sent overseas to places where human labor is cheap which is (imo) the inevitable conclusion of capitalism in a global marketplace.

Pair that with the fact that "classic" American culture does not encourage traits and behaviors that translate to academic success for boys. American parents are unintentionally conditioning their daughters to develop skills that end up in them performing better academically. Little girls are conditioned to sit quietly and play with dolls, read books (another quiet, stationary activity), and play nicely with other children. This leads to them being better able to tolerate the rigid structure and lack of physical activity in school.

I won't even get into the fact that getting a college education is no longer a guarantee of getting a good job once your graduate, but it's also a factor.

Putting it bluntly, there are not a lot of job opportunities for blue collar young men. When your options are working 12 hour shifts for $8-10/hr or living with your parents and perhaps working a low stress part time job, it's obvious which one is the more appealing choice. At $10/hr, even with a lot of overtime, you aren't making enough money to be able to support a family. You might make enough to live in a crappy apartment with a roommate but that's pretty much the cap on your standard of living at $10/hr.

Of course there is the third option of learning a trade and making $20/hr for a few years until you inevitably hurt yourself and can't work at all anymore, but it is my opinion that a lot of young men saw their fathers go that route and don't want that for themselves.

There just aren't a lot of choices for poor people in the world that's been created. So no, I don't blame them for preferring to sit at home and play video games.

If I can challenge this, I would argue the endgame of Capitalism is to negate as much human capital from the means of production as possible.

Cheaper labor is merely a stepping stone. The goal is negation of human needs in the process, hence why the largest companies today employ only fractions of the powerhouses 100 years ago provided. Peak Ford employment has a sea of human capital as laborers. Facebook looks like an isolated lake in comparison.

We must not forget this endgame, because the "jobs tree" is largely becoming an ever-increasing mythical concept to prosperity and wellbeing. In fact, it is instead becoming a noose made out of razor wire. This problem of not admitting the endgame is precisely why literal con artists like Donald Trump can promise the return of manufacturing, an industry where most people believe it was lost to trade but is, increasingly, seeing its number one killer being automation, and nobody is crucifying him for these lies. Bernie Sanders said the same things, and he too is wrong. We're ignoring this decoupling element when it comes to simply the existence of jobs.

People are already decoupled when it comes to wages, costs, and the accessibility/affordability of college. We have, perhaps for the first time in human history, an entire generation of people with a tier of education that is actually one notch above the type of work they'll actually get in society, and they still are precariats.

 

[DorkLord54]

I'm the inverse: I want to work because games are so good, but need money for a Switch, and to build a good computer to replace my hunch of junk.

 

[GreatestHits]

I'm the inverse: I want to work because games are so good, but need money for a Switch, and to build a good computer to replace my hunch of junk.

Show 'em those bootstraps!! Lol jk. I'm with you, I haven't been able to afford a new console for 2 gens now. I was ecstatic to get a new PC a while back. Gimme those hours!

 

[Ether_Snake]

Clearly the future is one of eating nothing but cheap unhealthy food, living in a tiny cramped unit, having no relationship, no kids, no more contact with your family, and spending all your time in VR worlds and VR porn.

The least amount of work for the least amount of money, just enough to pay for your VR escapism until you die.

Oh ans go vote once in a while for whoever will promise to sustain your "lifestyle".

 

[Sectorseven]

I'm the inverse: I want to work because games are so good, but need money for a Switch, and to build a good computer to replace my hunch of junk.

Those still aren't terribly hard things to obtain if you're living at home, even if you're working part time. With the money you'd spend on rent alone, you could probably buy a high end PC in a couple months.

Though I suspect most of these gamers are content with playing older stuff.

 

[Magwik]

Or maybe us young folk have just finally caught on to the bullshit.

 

[GreatestHits]

Clearly the future is one of eating nothing but cheap unhealthy food, living in a tiny cramped unit, having no relationship, no kids, no more contact with your family, and spending all your time in VR worlds and VR porn.

The least amount of work for the least amount of money, just enough to pay for your VR escapism until you die.

Oh ans go vote once in a while for whoever will promise to sustain your "lifestyle".

One step closer to the matrix my friend.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

That Japanese work ethic.

Pretty sure more of it has to do with our service based economy. Despite Japan having a toxic work culture, they do fairly well in getting men into those jobs as well as training them for those service jobs. Something that is lacking in America.

That training is especially crucial for men due to that males typically fall behind their female counterparts in service-based jobs. It's the reason men have typically stuck to manufacturing and labor job and have fallen behind in our modern service-majority economy.

 

[Bigboss242]

Video games remain one of the best arenas of escapism to a socially decaying landscape for massive amounts of people.

What is a rise in precarious living situations supposed to entail? Assimilation to an already decoupled framework that is not working as is?

Keep blaming other factors than that the basics of the 20th century, from an economic standpoint, have absolutely broken down in the 21st. Don't want to admit the elephant in the room until another crash or conflict, I'd imagine...

Yep someone who gets it.

 

[kmax]

Soon, we will be working....

Spoiler

in games.

Spoiler

 

[Servbot24]

I can't play video games because they make me feel guilty that I'm not working instead.

 

[Skyball Paint]

Soon, we will be working....

Spoiler

in games.

Spoiler

I feel like that's been true for as long as MMOs have existed, but I might be jaded