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[Alien Bob]

And just how many people have a Wiimote running on a more capable platform, exactly? Care to enlighten me? I don't see why homebrew developers would want to bother developing software that no one would use, as opposed to the Wii which everyone and their moms (literally) have.

I'm sure everyone and their moms (literally) will hack their wiis to play homebrew games...

OR

buy a bluetooth dongle?

 

[FilosopherStoner]

buy a bluetooth dongle?

Is it as simple as that?

 

[Durante]

Is it as simple as that?

Yes. Well, that and install an application.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Homebrew on Wii is completely pointless since the Wiimote, which is the only thing the platform has going for it, can be used on more capable platforms.
This is just for piracy.

1) there is already piracy
2) these more capable platforms can play games too, why bother making wii games!?

 

[Cataferal]

Piracy is bad.

Region locking is worse.

I live in the UK, and as such, without these homebrew methods I would never (and STILL wouldn't) have ever played the following games:

Chrono Trigger [FFC]
Chrono Cross
Xenogears
Xenosaga Ep 1
Xenosaga Ep 3
and many more...

People should be allowed to play any game they like, regardless of where they live. Thanks to swap discs and HD boot discs, i've been able to import and play my own legitimate copies of these games.

So long as Nintendo continue to enforce this petty region locking (aka racism), then im in full support of these mod/homrbrew communities allowing me to make the most of my own hardware.

 

[Golden Darkness]

Some more tidbits about the hack: http://psx-scene.com/forums/nintendo-news/62731-24c3-wii-homebrew-update.html

- They got the wii keys, and we could use them without hacking our wii again.
- This hack requires a drive modchip to execute the code.
- There is not any tool to sign the code, but it's coming soon.
- They are working to access to the SD thought EXI.
- There is not any stack homebrew for bluetooth
- A linux port for Wii will be released easily.

 

[adamsappel]

Can the Wii be hacked to play DVDs?

 

[Christine]

And just how many people have a Wiimote running on a more capable platform, exactly? Care to enlighten me? I don't see why homebrew developers would want to bother developing software that no one would use, as opposed to the Wii which everyone and their moms (literally) have.

Getting a Wii remote and a bluetooth adapter is a considerably lower entry threshold than modifying a Wii to run arbitrary code at this point. (Hell, it's still considerably easier than even getting a stock Wii in North America)

In fact, there have already been several rather impressive demonstrations of Wii remote homebrew.

Electronic Whiteboard - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s5EvhHy7eQ

Head tracking and forced perspective illusion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

Motion control of industrial robots - http://www.n4g.com/wii/News-21030.aspx

So, homebrew developers already have access to everything that makes the Wii interface different and unique. What benefit, exactly, do they get from access to running software on the GameCube turbo half of the product?

 

[commissar]

All I want to know is if I can hack it to run as a very low power linux box.

I was wanting an always-on music server :]

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Some more tidbits about the hack: http://psx-scene.com/forums/nintendo-news/62731-24c3-wii-homebrew-update.html

So it does require a modchip? Does that mean Nintendo can do something about it with a patch?

 

[blu]

So, homebrew developers already have access to everything that makes the Wii interface different and unique. What benefit, exactly, do they get from access to running software on the GameCube turbo half of the product?

what benefit do free software developers get from writing for the pc?
what benefit do homebrew developers get from writing for the psp? for the dreamcast? for the ds?

writing original, free software for a very popular platform - that's the benefit.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Homebrew on Wii is completely pointless since the Wiimote, which is the only thing the platform has going for it, can be used on more capable platforms.
This is just for piracy.

Wiiconnect 24? DS Linkup? There's more to the Wii than the Wiimote you know!

Also, this hack still needs a mod chip so Nintendo is still somewhat safe for now.

FOOL WiiWare is not the same thing.

You can't choose your price, and WiiWare is not aimed at indie development, but small-time developers. The most prominent WiiWare game right now is from Square Enix for chrissakes!

Actually, you can choose your price with Wii Ware! Oh and indie development is actually made up of small time developers, homebrew =/ indie development!

 

[Calidor]

So it does require a modchip? Does that mean Nintendo can do something about it with a patch?

- This hack requires a drive modchip to execute the code.

 

[Christine]

what benefit do free software developers get from writing for the pc?
what benefit do homebrew developers get from writing for the psp? for the dreamcast? for the ds?

writing original, free software for a very popular platform - that's the benefit.

PC is an open platform. PSP and DS are both portable devices. Dreamcast was considerably more high-end than Wii upon its release and also would boot directly from CD-R media without modification. None of these are comparable to Wii in a sense that would support your answer.

However, I suppose my question should have been, what benefit does the ability to run arbitrary code on the Wii provide to a homebrew developer that isn't grossly exceeded by the benefits already provided by developing on other platforms?

If you want to develop for the remote, you already can on PC. In fact, I will go so far as to say that homebrew development for the remote will always be more advanced on the PC platform than on the Wii. Without Nintendo's SDKs everything needs to be created from scratch - hobbyist developers have already gotten started with this on the PC side - on the Wii hardware side it will always be catching up and mooching from the PC work.

Any project that doesn't use the remote will work better and get a bigger audience on PC or even something like OG Xbox.

Of course people are doing their best to open the platform, "Because it's there". But opening the Wii won't really provide any new benefits to hobbyist developers. It won't add anything at all to development for the control interface and there are already better small form factor computing devices to develop for.

Keep in mind that the fact that closed Wiis are popular doesn't have much bearing on this - only the number of Wiis used as open systems by their end users matters.

 

[blu]

PC is an open platform.

what does that have to do with anything? if you can write for it, and people can run your code - it's 'open enough'. the presence or absence of this or that tool, SDK or corporate endorsement only change the field, but the game remains the same: you write code in hope somebody somewhere will find it useful. ergo platform popularity & accesibility matter.

PSP and DS are both portable devices.

which does not explain why developers are bothering with these two devices when there's pocket pc (it's open!), palm (been around for decades) and you-name-it smart phone platforms _with_ SDKs.

Dreamcast was considerably more high-end than Wii upon its release and also would boot directly from CD-R media without modification.

high-end? as in 'it could run stuff the pc could not'? - i don't think so. but yes, it can run cd-r's off the bat - something that a modded wii be capable of soon (hopefully).

None of these are comparable to Wii in a sense that would support your answer.

depends on the view angle, i guess.

However, I suppose my question should have been, what benefit does the ability to run arbitrary code on the Wii provide to a homebrew developer that isn't grossly exceeded by the benefits already provided by developing on other platforms?

you may just as well ask yourself what benefit does a homebew developer have on any platform other than the pc.

If you want to develop for the remote, you already can on PC. In fact, I will go so far as to say that homebrew development for the remote will always be more advanced on the PC platform than on the Wii. Without Nintendo's SDKs everything needs to be created from scratch - hobbyist developers have already gotten started with this on the PC side - on the Wii hardware side it will always be catching up and mooching from the PC work.

99% of software development on this planet is 'mooching' from the pc. again, how does that explain developers interest in all those other platforms?

Keep in mind that the fact that closed Wiis are popular doesn't have much bearing on this - only the number of Wiis used as open systems by their end users matters.

of course. just as not every psp, dc or ds is used for homebrew. heck, what portion of the gargantuan pc install base is used for stuff other than office work/web browsing?

 

[Christine]

ergo platform popularity & accesibility matter.

What I'm saying is that PC+Wii remote is always going to trump modded Wii on those fronts.

 

[wsippel]

Getting a Wii remote and a bluetooth adapter is a considerably lower entry threshold than modifying a Wii to run arbitrary code at this point. (Hell, it's still considerably easier than even getting a stock Wii in North America)

In fact, there have already been several rather impressive demonstrations of Wii remote homebrew.

Electronic Whiteboard - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s5EvhHy7eQ

Head tracking and forced perspective illusion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

Motion control of industrial robots - http://www.n4g.com/wii/News-21030.aspx

So, homebrew developers already have access to everything that makes the Wii interface different and unique. What benefit, exactly, do they get from access to running software on the GameCube turbo half of the product?

They do it because they can. It's as easy as that - that's how the community works. It doesn't have to make any sense.

 

[blu]

What I'm saying is that PC+Wii remote is always going to trump modded Wii on those fronts.

PC&wiimote + modded wii > PC&wiimote.

They do it because they can. It's as easy as that - that's how the community works. It doesn't have to make any sense.

the sense is as basic as it gets - every human being wants to matter. that's why coders write community software. people seek impact from their existence.

 

[Starchasing]

Are there anyways to use the classic controller with a pc???

 

[mentalfloss]

holy uber nards

 

[Christine]

PC&wiimote + modded wii > PC&wiimote.

Okay, but only in the additive sense or in the sense that the Wii is small and quiet - there isn't any capability or function that the Wii hardware can bring to the table that the PC does not possess, and the PC is capable of more. And: PC&Wiimote + PC&Wiimote > PC&wiimote + modded wii.

They do it because they can. It's as easy as that - that's how the community works. It doesn't have to make any sense.

I know. I'm not saying that people won't do this - I'm saying that there isn't any compelling benefit or synergy exclusive to running code on the Wii beyond doing it for the sake of being able to do it. It won't provide any new benefits.

Are there anyways to use the classic controller with a pc???

Wii remote and a Bluetooth dongle and some software.

 

[blu]

Okay, but only in the additive sense or in the sense that the Wii is small and quiet - there isn't any capability or function that the Wii hardware can bring to the table that the PC does not possess, and the PC is capable of more. And: PC&Wiimote + PC&Wiimote > PC&wiimote + modded wii.

i was referring to install base, not individual units. we're discussing the homebrew developer's perspective, which is: i'd rather get my project running on both wii's and pc's w/ wiimote, than on pc's only.

as re the user's perspective of whether there's any capability or functionality the wii brings over the pc - this argument is pointless as it's entirely situational. for instance, i have 3 desktops at home (funny, eh? - i should do with one) and i still use the wii for certain desktop jobs. because under the circumstances of my home the wii is more convenient/capable for certain tasks.

 

[LM4sure]

beh, requires a modchip. I'll pass

 

[radioheadrule83]

Awesome. I want a ScummVM port and something like XBMC with wiimote control.

 

[Sharp]

I was wondering why this thread had died down, and now I see why: it requires a modchip => GAF interest *= 0.05

 

[hirokazu]

Okay, but only in the additive sense or in the sense that the Wii is small and quiet - there isn't any capability or function that the Wii hardware can bring to the table that the PC does not possess, and the PC is capable of more. And: PC&Wiimote + PC&Wiimote > PC&wiimote + modded wii.



I know. I'm not saying that people won't do this - I'm saying that there isn't any compelling benefit or synergy exclusive to running code on the Wii beyond doing it for the sake of being able to do it. It won't provide any new benefits.



Wii remote and a Bluetooth dongle and some software.

Mate, why are you hating? Face it, most people don't buy Wii remotes to connect to their PCs. Sure there are some interesting projects and demos out there where the Wii remote is being used in conjunction to some other hardware for cool effects.

But how many people have an industrial robotical arm to play with? How many people have their hands on that cool Adobe painting app? What good is that forced perspective demo other than to just try out once or twice?

Most people have Wii remotes for their Wii, and homebrew could add new perceived value to the Wii itself. I don't get why you're only thinking of the Wii remote. Homebrew could paave the way for unofficial channels, to stream music/videos off your network, or play off a USB mass storage device, for example. Or play DVDs. Or better region-free than the current mod-chips are doing.

There's very obvious benefits, so why complain about it? The truth is, nobody cares as much for uses of the Wii remote on their PCs, there's just not that much going for it at the moment. Not to mention they either need to power on their Wii to use the sensor bar, or make their own contraption to replace it.

 

[Speevy]

Awesome. I want a ScummVM port and something like XBMC with wiimote control.

They already ported ScummVM to the Gamecube. If you're into that sort of thing, you can already make it happen.

 

[perfectchaos007]

I'm too much of a casual to know how to install a mod chip.

 

[Fafalada]

- This hack requires a drive modchip to execute the code.

They claim they have the ability to sign the code - and from what I remember, Wii has other, Writeable means of delivering content to it then optical discs. Which means there's a good chance this will allow executing stuff without modchip in future.

And if this really is actual signed code, there may be nothing Nintendo can do about it short of disabling compatibility with existing Wii software.

 

[Durante]

Someone posted this on the WiiLi forums, and it both sounds plausible to me and contains some new information, so I'll repeat it here:

here's the deal as far as I know:

In pressed Wii games, there are two values that are put together to make the on-the-fly decryption key with which the Wii can actually execute the game.
One in on the security ring of the manufactured disc, and one is stored by every Wii to decrypt data (the static key). What's happened here is they've got the "Lego Star Wars" game key simply from the disc, and they've got the FULL ("master") key used to decrypt ONLY Lego Star Wars game through dumping Wii memory (this was done by disabling some of the ATi bridge that locks out the RAM during Gamecube mode).

Now, this resulted in the "master" key for Lego Star Wars, and the "disc auth" key for it too. Reverse engineering this resulted in the generic Wii data key, thus allowing them to burn their own data under the disguise of LSW. Then, of course, a drive modchip was needed cos they can't press their own discs...

STILL, that's what's going on... Nintendo wouldn't be able to patch this with a firmware update. They'd have to change hardware keys and most DEFINITELY fix up the ATi lockout bridge too.

Regarding executing code from the SD card -- IIRC internal memory / SD card apps (ie. VC) are signed with a specific key for each console, so I'm not convinced that a no-drivemod hack will result from this any time soon.

 

[M3d10n]

It's unlikely DC-style bootdisks will arise from this. The drive does it's own checking for valid media before reading the disks, which is independent of the system firmware. That's why Nintendo cannot detect the current batch of modchips, which aim for the DVD drive.

After the DVD disk passes the check the console uses the keys to unencrypt the executables before executing them. These hackers managed to get hold of these keys, so they can now compile their own executables.

But creating custom channels might be possible, since all required keys to encrypt them are already on the Wii itself.

Anyway, while Nintendo cannot easily detect pirates, they might be able to detect Wii consoles running homebrew. Doesn't the Wii "phones home" about its usage?

 

[derder]

If this doesn't require a modchip (the current hack does -- used a ton in EU/Spain), then wiiconnect24 firmware updates could theoretically brick systems or remove illegal mods.

Potential results:
1. Nintendo can stop anybody from getting online with it through firmware brickage.
2. Mod/hack community gets into a tit for tat firmware/hack cycle (see PSP).
3. Gamers have to buy second Wii so they can have one offline system. Nintendo wins.

TBH I don't think people would mind having a Wii without internet play. Just sayin'

 

[blu]

Someone posted this on the WiiLi forums, and it both sounds plausible to me and contains some new information, so I'll repeat it here:

here's the deal as far as I know:

In pressed Wii games, there are two values that are put together to make the on-the-fly decryption key with which the Wii can actually execute the game.
One in on the security ring of the manufactured disc, and one is stored by every Wii to decrypt data (the static key). What's happened here is they've got the "Lego Star Wars" game key simply from the disc, and they've got the FULL ("master") key used to decrypt ONLY Lego Star Wars game through dumping Wii memory (this was done by disabling some of the ATi bridge that locks out the RAM during Gamecube mode).

Now, this resulted in the "master" key for Lego Star Wars, and the "disc auth" key for it too. Reverse engineering this resulted in the generic Wii data key, thus allowing them to burn their own data under the disguise of LSW. Then, of course, a drive modchip was needed cos they can't press their own discs...

STILL, that's what's going on... Nintendo wouldn't be able to patch this with a firmware update. They'd have to change hardware keys and most DEFINITELY fix up the ATi lockout bridge too.

seems the guy got confused a bit - the video was clear on that - there's nothing wrong with ATI's security controller per se - the hackers used an address-lines cross-wiring hack. it's a physical attack (the 'tweezers attack'), and everybody who's dealt extensively with RAM SIMMs, particularly the 72-pins variety back in the 90's, knows how to achieve this hack. all it takes is one careless insertion of a SIMM in the slot and voila - your PC's address space is 'hacked'. back in the days i even wrote a small routine to catch short-wired address lines, after repeatedly facing boards with smashed SIMM slots.