Some will actually admit the constant chest beating and MS doom and gloom is a form of payback for the shit that was thrown at the PS3 when they had the inferior ports and higher price...I'd hate to see MS screw up yet again listening to an angry mob that would have never bought their product anyway.
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Will MS go for Sony's throat at E3 and undercut their PS4 MSRP ?
- Thread starter Apophis2036
- Start date
Some will actually admit the constant chest beating and MS doom and gloom is a form of payback for the shit that was thrown at the PS3 when they had the inferior ports and higher price...I'd hate to see MS screw up yet again listening to an angry mob that would have never bought their product anyway.
zerokoolpsx
Member
They would probably match Sony's price unless they have a version that doesn't include the Kinect.
The Xbox One is selling well in isolation, but its direct competitor is closing in on 2:1 sales (world wide). That is extremely problematic, especially if the customers buying PS4s instead of Xbox Ones become invested in a single ecosystem. Microsoft wants to sell Xbox Ones and Xbox Live subscriptions.
The fewer people in their ecosystem the less social pressure there is for people to pick up XBL to play games with their friends, and at this point that is the only real value the service has right now. It also drops the value of their product for advertisers which is another big chunk of the Xbox strategy.
njean777
Member
That depends on what you wanted, if you wanted blu-ray then it was a steal.
It seems MS didn't even give TF a chance to be a system seller. isn't the whole point of system seller is to uptick XB1 so people can play TF. if you giving it out free TF in bundle how is that making any impact on its own?
the problem with free games and discount is that now they can't afford to go back. They literally set customer expectation with this
the problem with free games and discount is that now they can't afford to go back. They literally set customer expectation with this
SwiftDeath
Member
I feel it's my duty to inform people that it's highly highly unlikely that the PS4 is closing in on 2:1 versus the XB1 WW.
Yes the gap probably got larger up until March and yes it's very possible that in March PS4 still outsold XB1 WW
But outselling your competitor 2:1 is not an easy task
XB1 WW LTD likely sits somewhere between 4.2M and 4.5M
2x that is 8.4M and 9M
PS4 WW LTD is at best 7.5M and that's like crazy person numbers
Now it's possible XB1 demand falls in April and May as Sony has some releases and Watch Dogs is being heavily advertised with PS4 but for Sony to outsell MS 2:1 by say E3 would probably require ~3M PS4 sales in that time which is madness imo
Regardless something like 1.75 PS4 to 1 XB1 WW would be awful for MS and might actually happen. No need to tout 2 to 1 unless things change that suggest it
Yes the gap probably got larger up until March and yes it's very possible that in March PS4 still outsold XB1 WW
But outselling your competitor 2:1 is not an easy task
XB1 WW LTD likely sits somewhere between 4.2M and 4.5M
2x that is 8.4M and 9M
PS4 WW LTD is at best 7.5M and that's like crazy person numbers
Now it's possible XB1 demand falls in April and May as Sony has some releases and Watch Dogs is being heavily advertised with PS4 but for Sony to outsell MS 2:1 by say E3 would probably require ~3M PS4 sales in that time which is madness imo
Regardless something like 1.75 PS4 to 1 XB1 WW would be awful for MS and might actually happen. No need to tout 2 to 1 unless things change that suggest it
I'm sure MS had preorder numbers and other metrics which were letting them know what the impact was going to be. I think we can assume they weren't great(since they took action), but we don't know if they were just alright or way below expectations.
A game is a way to increase the value of a console to a consumer. By bundling it in with the console at no extra cost, the console has become even more valuable. If anything, by shoving TitanFall into half of their consoles for free Microsoft has been leaning on TitanFall to be more impactful then it really was going to be for a new IP.
This is 100% correct. Even if they managed to pull a $100 price cut on the Kinect bundle, $450 with TitanFall and 13 months of Live (the Target bundle over the past week) is still a better value to many people.
1.75:1 is close enough to 2:1 for horseshoes and hand grenades. The gap wasn't this bag at the end of December and it continues to grow. So unless XB1 sales explode and PS4 sales level off, 2:1 isn't far off.
Vire
Member
Definitely seems like Titanfall just wasn't the multi-million, system seller in the way that Gears and Halo were for Microsoft in the past. With the amount of marketing that game received, you'd think otherwise. I guess it doesn't help that the regions they are getting spanked in, just don't find that type of game all that compelling.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Gears and Halo came out at a time where there wasn't much if any competition on consoles for those experiences.
Titanfall is an MP only game in an incredibly crowded genre. It really isn't a system seller or even a go-to game. It's a nice to have game. This is especially true regarding the graphics, which are basically last-gen all around.
But plenty of people are getting PS4s for BF4 and would prefer to play that instead.
Microsoft is kind of in trouble now that their killer app title is out there, doing well, but not really having the sort of "must have" status that they probably expected. Sony will have Watch Dogs, TLOU:HD, GTAV, Destiny all coming up here in the span of a few months and PS4 will have the preferred console versions to get of those titles. Destiny in particular is going to be massive, imho.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
The XBO might not be outselling the PS4, but it's doing well. Microsoft still has plenty of time to turn things around without drastic measures as long as the systems continues to sell decently well.
The PS3 was, after all, a piece of shit for like two years before Sony finally decided to put games out for the thing and then look at what happened.
The PS3 was, after all, a piece of shit for like two years before Sony finally decided to put games out for the thing and then look at what happened.
I've said it in other threads, but I can repeat it now:
In our stores, we've seen Titanfall sell well, the game definitely had some great sales the first couple weeks, but the bundles didn't really move very many at all until the 50 dollar price-match to WalMart kicked in. Then we started selling more of them, but still not at any kind of crazy velocity. They sold well. But the problem was that Sony started to stock our stores weekly too, and the PS4s still have the same kind of high end sales velocity they've had since launch.
And now, the 360 version is out, but every time I've asked other stores, and checked numbers... there's just not a lot of momentum about it. I had to inform several people I know that hadn't gone next-gen yet that there even WAS a 360 version. All the media has been about the X1. Informed gamers (enthusiasts), knew, but... That's not really the core metric for the CoD crowd TF is targeting.
Hell, I want TF to do well, new IP with promising talent behind it is great. But I feel like the way it was handled... is a disservice to the game, and to Bluepoint, at this level, cause they did a badass job with the port, and I've seen people actually mad that it exists, since they felt swindled. It's a stupid mentality to have, but, people feel that way.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Microsoft really isn't in Sony's position, though. PS3 was arguably more powerful but cost substantially more ($200 more) and released much later. And even then, PS3 managed to break even with 360 at worst on an ongoing basis world wide. The price cuts PS3 had allowed the system to start doing better than the 360 WW.
But Microsoft's strong position was in large part to doing substantially better in the US/UK...territories that are now in Sony's favor.
Even if MS gets to parity in these regions, then world wide Sony will still do tons better. There's really no chance for Microsoft to come back and then catch up like Sony did with the PS3.
The biggest reason why PS3 easily turned itself around was due to the huge successes & the juggernauts of both PS1 & PS2.
Xbox 360 was nowhere near PS2 levels of success, let alone PS1's. They only markets that Microsoft had with 360 were in the U.S. & in the UK, & they're slowly losing them to PS4.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
There is such thing as undervaluing a product. Slashing the price to $349.99 this early on would certainly do that.
The PS3 has currently lost ~45-50% of the user base Sony amassed with the PS2. Will Microsoft be OK selling ~40-45m consoles if Sony is pushing ~100-120m?
Of course they wouldn't.
'Twas a rhetorical question; I'm trying to illustrate the way things might end up if the trends we're observing continue.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Do you think that gap will stay the same lol
Estimates for LTD's are PS4 7 million, XB1- 4-4.5 million
That means this year PS3 has sold 3 million while XB! has sold 1-1.5 million WW. 2:1 or 3:1. Thats very worrying.
Forgottonone
Member
xbox is making profit for each system allowing it to update features and firmware quickly. Sony is losing money on each console.. how is that benefiting them in any way? Sales are great. Are devs being silenced? Why aren't they announcing big games for sony's ps4? was Sony expecting A LOT more sales than they had gotten? Perhaps.. who knows
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Where did you get this info from? Your ass?
Sony expected 5 million sold by the end of march. PS4 is most likely at 7 million. Clearly exceeded expectations.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
No, there's no need for that, it's already selling decently, and even matching PS4's current price would provide a huge boost, coupled with compelling games and other content, no matter what Sony does. It would be too dangerous to peg everything at the price since that could be matched rather easilly.
Besides, the idea that consoles need to be at the same price point or that the one with weaker hardware needs to be cheaper in order to be successful is flawed. PS3 and the 360 were both successful at different price points (and the bulk of multiplatform games looked better on the 360 for a lobg time), Wii was beating both even when Xbox 360 Arcade was cheaper, GC was cheaper than both Xbox and PS2 and so on.
Nightengale
Member
Huh? I thought Sony was selling at near cost and was in profit as soon as someone bought something for the system.
CadetMahoney
Member
There is nothing MS can do tbh. There is no possible scenario that can save.chalkboard.
Price is something that won't change anything, it's still underpowered even though both consoles aren't that impressive which is even less value for money and is badly designed (Kinect is largely useless) which lead them to where they are now marketshare wise.
Price matching won't solve that which speak volumes on just how bad bone is. Distant second place in it's strongest markets by the end of the year.
Price is something that won't change anything, it's still underpowered even though both consoles aren't that impressive which is even less value for money and is badly designed (Kinect is largely useless) which lead them to where they are now marketshare wise.
Price matching won't solve that which speak volumes on just how bad bone is. Distant second place in it's strongest markets by the end of the year.
They are near cost. I remember reading somewhere that all it took was a first party game/or PS plus to put them over the profit hump. Not sure what he's thinking nor talking about, unless he's talking about without someone buying something for it.
More info on that from a quick google. http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieln...9/report-sony-near-to-profit-on-ps4-hardware/
What the fuck am I reading?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-recoup-playstation-4-hardware-loss-at-launch
ArchedThunder
Banned
Not sure if serious...but anyway:
Services and Software yo.
Consistent stream of multiple cashflows=Sony is super happy.
And of course, a larger marketshare means a stronger brand name that can help tie the consumers into the Sony's ecosystem that would cross over to other products.
Birgitte2004
Member
Is this posted from 8 years ago with a typo replacing a 3 with a 4?
If MS really wanted to go for the throat, it wouldn't have announced at $499 last E3, or at least adjusted the price before launch. They seemed happy enough to take a premium path then, so they may choose to accept lower volumes but push for higher Xbox live penetration for a steady service income, and higher attach rate per console.
It will be interesting on seeing how Microsoft will compete. There are too many thinking with Microsoft vast fortune they will use it all buy big exclusives.
I remember seeing a chart saying the Xbox division has yet to recoup the costs from its initial jump into the console race. If true Elop might have a tighter leash on spending.
Microsoft have a lead on exclusives so far this generation and they need to continue to invest in them not like last generation. It might be more profitable to invest in getting first party exclusives and not spending huge amounts on third party exclusives.
Microsoft can't rely on third party exclusives as they lack the perception on keeping them for more than a few months. It got away with it last generation because PS3 ports were not usually the best. That has changed now. Remember last year when Titanfall was announced as an Xbox exclusive there was plenty on here saying they will wait for the PS4 version thinking it would never stay exclusive because of EA. We are still waiting on that front. Some believe a PS4 version will be announced as soon as E3 or Gamescom. I am not holding my breath.
I have been very negative about Xbox up to now but he has it advantages like Halo, Gears and Forza excellent exclusives and hundreds of indie games on the way. There is also a more positive perception on the division appearing over the last while.
Sony have to get more exclusives announced to keep the lead as price point can only help for so long. It is still lacking features that were announced at the reveal and have been too quiet for the last few months. They can easily lose their lead at this stage.
I expect a permanent price cut for Xbox not much like $50 but keeping Kinect they have invested too much now to abandon it. Sony might counter with a new bundle with a 1tb HDD and The last of Us remaster bundled for the same price.
I remember seeing a chart saying the Xbox division has yet to recoup the costs from its initial jump into the console race. If true Elop might have a tighter leash on spending.
Microsoft have a lead on exclusives so far this generation and they need to continue to invest in them not like last generation. It might be more profitable to invest in getting first party exclusives and not spending huge amounts on third party exclusives.
Microsoft can't rely on third party exclusives as they lack the perception on keeping them for more than a few months. It got away with it last generation because PS3 ports were not usually the best. That has changed now. Remember last year when Titanfall was announced as an Xbox exclusive there was plenty on here saying they will wait for the PS4 version thinking it would never stay exclusive because of EA. We are still waiting on that front. Some believe a PS4 version will be announced as soon as E3 or Gamescom. I am not holding my breath.
I have been very negative about Xbox up to now but he has it advantages like Halo, Gears and Forza excellent exclusives and hundreds of indie games on the way. There is also a more positive perception on the division appearing over the last while.
Sony have to get more exclusives announced to keep the lead as price point can only help for so long. It is still lacking features that were announced at the reveal and have been too quiet for the last few months. They can easily lose their lead at this stage.
I expect a permanent price cut for Xbox not much like $50 but keeping Kinect they have invested too much now to abandon it. Sony might counter with a new bundle with a 1tb HDD and The last of Us remaster bundled for the same price.
bigboss370
Member
I bet if it had a beefy single player campaign it would've sold loads more.
Nightengale
Member
iamvin22
Industry Verified
not_so_special
Banned
tales from the ass?
boredandlazy
Member
Nah, they won't cut the price yet. At the moment they might not be selling as extremely well as the PS4, but 4 million consoles sold in its first few months is still great. The console war is mostly an internet thing; Microsoft is making money at the moment, they're probably happy.
It will be interesting to see what they do with the price in the future though, because my guess is that Sony will remain the king of exclusive game this generation. Even though Microsoft has done a good job securing some interesting IP's other than just Halo and Gears of War, I don't see a reason developers would want to make something exclusive for the Xbox One in the future unless they're moneyhatted (lol, I know, but Titanfall is proof that it happens if anything) or need the Kinect.
The PS4 sold more and makes games look better, the Sony market is simply bigger and publishers won't ignore that. Add the fact Sony has way more studio's just making games for the Playstation than Microsoft has for Xbox, and you should be able to see how an expensive console with less games than the cheaper competition is going to become a problem if Microsoft doesn't change their price of admission.
It will be interesting to see what they do with the price in the future though, because my guess is that Sony will remain the king of exclusive game this generation. Even though Microsoft has done a good job securing some interesting IP's other than just Halo and Gears of War, I don't see a reason developers would want to make something exclusive for the Xbox One in the future unless they're moneyhatted (lol, I know, but Titanfall is proof that it happens if anything) or need the Kinect.
The PS4 sold more and makes games look better, the Sony market is simply bigger and publishers won't ignore that. Add the fact Sony has way more studio's just making games for the Playstation than Microsoft has for Xbox, and you should be able to see how an expensive console with less games than the cheaper competition is going to become a problem if Microsoft doesn't change their price of admission.
I know plenty have already called out junior here but seriously, LOL.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
They'll lose more money if it doesn't sell, than selling good numbers at a loss.
Then what happens when Sony matches their $50/£50 price drop? They're back in the same situation, but it's costing them a fortune. Look how much damage financially (and to their reputation) Sony took for redesigning the PS3 and dropping the price.
Sudden, subsequent price drops sometimes make people think you're trying to sell them a lemon - the opposite of what companies want.
I think you mean Respawn. EA is probably the only one happy at the moment, with however many millions they got from Microsoft.
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