That is awesome, thanks.
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Will MS go for Sony's throat at E3 and undercut their PS4 MSRP ?
- Thread starter Apophis2036
- Start date
That is awesome, thanks.
Dragonborn
Member
The PS2 was a phenomenon unlike any other. Right now the PS4 is tracking ahead, but the PS2 shot out and once it reaches that point (aligned), the PS4 will fall behind. Similarly, the 360 started out slow and then shot off, once it gets to the point the X1 will quickly fall behind, especially when taking into account it's incredibly lackluster WW performance.
The only way the PS4 would have a shot at getting near the PS2 would be by completely dominating NA, which isn't happening with the X1 there.
$349 with Kinect
Sony drops to $299
War over before it can begin.
MS can't win the performace war, they are in a worse position to start a price war. Fighting a content war is an uphill battle too even with lots of moneyhats.
They could just do that. I mean honestly we don't know how far either company is willing to go to win over the major markets, but we do know that a price drop to for Xbox One to match the PS4's $399 is very likely.
I think the answer for PS4 is Japan
infiniteheteroskdasticity
Member
I don't think so. They're doing well enough in NA that it won't be needed here and an early price cut would do enormous damage to their "Amazing sales, Titanfall, Xbox Family Strength, Titanfall, All in one entertainment, Titanfall" PR narrative. As we've seen with the WiiU, the impression that a console isn't doing well can act as a negative on adoption rates.
A price cut in Europe at Gamescom is a lot more likely and definitely more necessary at this point. They're getting destroyed by the PS4 outside the United States. The Xbox One is doing worse than the 360 ever did in Europe. Being a one country brand is not a great path to relevance long term. A US price cut won't happen till after Halo 5 (maybe not till next e3 and a "slim" SKU). A standard free bundled game with every SKU is a lot more likely.
A price cut in Europe at Gamescom is a lot more likely and definitely more necessary at this point. They're getting destroyed by the PS4 outside the United States. The Xbox One is doing worse than the 360 ever did in Europe. Being a one country brand is not a great path to relevance long term. A US price cut won't happen till after Halo 5 (maybe not till next e3 and a "slim" SKU). A standard free bundled game with every SKU is a lot more likely.
You over estimate Sony's commitment to money losing businesses in 2014. If PS4 isn't profitable, there will be no PS5, full stop.
Syphon Filter
Member
Yea they tried before but those seem very loyal or something. Even if japan is contracting it will still have some sort of an advantage over there and also those rest of Europe. The worst part is that they will be late to territories they already did bad in the first place.
Sony will cut their price only if their own sales start to dive. They'll keep selling PS4 at the maximum price they can for as long as they can. They won't hastily react to a price cut from Microsoft.
Dragonborn
Member
I remember another poster said in another thread (I forget which one, sorry), that there's more at stake this gen. This gen is going to be a lot more digital focused which means people will be a lot more entrenched into the systems' ecosystem. With a simpler architecture, that also means that BC may be possible on the next gen systems. Put these two things together, and it means that winning this gen may be a lot more important than it seems. Whoever wins will have a very big advantage going forward.
For that reason, I believe both companies will do whatever they need to "win" and remain competitive. Ultimately, we win. I'm hoping MS cuts the price to $399 and I can find an X1 for $299-$350 for Black Friday (unlikely I know). I'd definitely buy one then. I refuse to pay more for it than I would for a PS4.
Worldwide numbers being what they are I don't see drastic action being taken at any time. They weren't that far off in the NPDs for February and haven't completed their global rollout. All that and this is still the most successful launch in Xbox history.
The body language from Microsoft seems to indicate they are content to let retailers move stock how they see fit and they feel they have a very good E3 lined up.
The body language from Microsoft seems to indicate they are content to let retailers move stock how they see fit and they feel they have a very good E3 lined up.
Well, speaking from retail perspective... You're not really correct at all. Inventory of the original Xbox Ones was considered dead inventory. It was taking up immense amounts of warehouse space, and weren't moving very much until the gift card deals started to hit. Now we're already selling the Titanfall bundles at the 50 dollar discount, with the 'biggest seller game' of the year for that system, bundled in free. This is not normal, and this is not a positive outlook. It's sold pretty well... but I mean, it's not maintaining that velocity. And it took them giving away the game free, on top of a discount. Retailers don't absorb that kind of loss on every system sold unless we've got a reason. Either MS is paying to accomodate those losses, or the management doesn't see them being good long term investment inventory.
This is all from my position as a best buy supervisor, so, take my thoughts how you will.
AstroNut325
Member
When is NPD this month?
giancarlo123x
Banned
$150 less? Anyone is insane if you think they'll take a loss that big.
Dragonborn
Member
Next Thursday, the 17th. Definitely looking forward to finding out by how much the X1 edged ahead. That should give us a better picture.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I could see MS lowering the price to $450. Maybe even $400 if they're willing to drop the price that much in hopes it'll help sales.
This. People can say that Xbox is doing fine all they want, but these are not the moves you see for a product that is doing fine.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
They will likely have a great show but at this point they need a game-changer to get consumers to favor the XBox One. Kinect is vital to them because that's pretty much the only thing that trumps Sony's hardware (when you compare cameras and support for it). Anything shy of them buying out Sega won't change the perception. Sony has the momentum and they know it.
RedAssedApe
Banned
they will prob remove app paywall and drop live msrp.
don't see them matching 399 unless its kinect-less sku...otherwise that is them pretty much saying that their system is inferior and kinect is worth nothing
don't see them matching 399 unless its kinect-less sku...otherwise that is them pretty much saying that their system is inferior and kinect is worth nothing
Ploid 3.0
Member
I think people get lost in the idea that a $60 pack in is equal to $60 off the price. MS didn't pay EA $60 for each of those Titanfall copies. Taking $50 off the price actually costs $50.
At this point I'd expect $50 off, $100 if things seem really bad. $150 makes no sense unless they can scrap Kinect and save money there(unlikely at this point).
Dragonborn
Member
The need to match $399. I doubt X1 can sill sell at $499 anymore, not by itself. They'll either have to make a permanent bundle, or at least a $50 price cut.
The console market was grown since the PS2 era, tho. I don't expect them to quite reach those levels, especially with Japan out the PS4 picture, but I wouldn't call it impossible. We won't see the 360's insane 8 year true lifecycle or the PS2's 13 year shared lifecycle, but I could see them getting close to their brand's biggest successes in the first 5-6 years of shelflife as long as Apple, Amazon or something else doesn't disrupt the market.
RedAssedApe
Banned
sorry should have clarified. i could see drop to 450 with kinect but not without. it'd just reinforce (what the hardcore already knows) to the less hardcore that xbone is weaker machine and needs that price differential to even compete
Syphon Filter
Member
you realize back then it was harder to get out a lot of consoles out compared to now right? 360 was supply constrained till may 2006 so i would hope xbox one sells more in the same time frame. MS only does well in two markets and even in those they are getting beat,they arent going to beat sony this gen.
what? a highly successful product getting big discounts at retail isn't normal? but but
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
IF PS4 doesn't win the console war this time, the same could apply.
They may lose more money in the short term, but they gain more in the long term.
Sony needs to play to win this time. They didn't last time and look what happened.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
These are not the moves you see normally.
However, they are the moves of a company that wants to win and is willing to make sacrifices to do so.
Dragonborn
Member
The market expanded because of the Wii, an audience that is now gone. That's why I just don't see it happening. I can see the PS4 doing 100 million (maybe up to PS1 levels), X1 maybe 40, and Wii U 15-20 (at best), but that's about it.
True, but MS' image is messed up regardless. Doing a sort of reintroduction at E3 could help.
You know, like:
$399 Xbox One
Show off some new IPs
Remove the Paywalls
Introduce a PS+ like system for X1 or improve GWG considerably
And take it from there. That's what I'm personally expecting they do at E3. They should also make sure to never talk about "power" or anything of that sort.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I don't think winning is the main goal of the companies. It would be better for them to be profitable in the end, and quite successful. Totally dominating would be nice but not at the cost of destroying profits and goals. You say sony didn't win and "look what happened," so what happened?
If Microsoft are behind the crazy deals, it's at a cost that won't hurt them. A limited sale may be to test if the price is too much.
Put it in the right perspective, though. This isn't about winning, right now, because they're not. These moves are to try and keep the gap from completely bowling them over.
If MS wins March in the NPDs... By anything less than, what, 200k, they're still behind the PS4 in the US. Despite all the insane, ridiculous sales, less than 6 months into their console release, in the territory they were expected to dominate, they'll still be behind their competitor. And by all accounts, we're not seeing the sales staying really high. Media coverage has dropped off completely.
These deals aren't about winning, right now. It's about staying relevant. About not becoming the Wii U.
PeregrinSe7en
Member
i dont get it either. all i know is that people who think this way are gonna be in for a rude awakening
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
That drastic a price difference from launch would alarm the market. They would see it as a sure sign it is tanking.
Who goes first for conferences this year? Because if microsoft goes first sony is just going to watch and counter anything hardware wise just like last year(everyone remembers the paint style slides that looked really cheaply done when it came to drm and price.)
If microsoft goes first I think sony will win again on the consumer side this year as they will have to before their conference to counter
If microsoft goes first I think sony will win again on the consumer side this year as they will have to before their conference to counter
It is possible that MS sees "profitable but not #1" as unacceptable. It's also possible that they saw some bad sales numbers and started trying to boost them with bundles. I think we'll have a much better idea after the March NPDs come out. If Xbox beats PS4 by a healthy margin, I think we may be in the 1st scenario. If the sales are about even or under, they might have a real problem.
MS could also be worried about the relative sales because console adoption seems so accelerated this gen. MS could have what seems like healthy sales for a while, meanwhile Sony has sold PS4s to the rest of the market. Despite the numbers so far, I don't see any evidence that the console market has grown. People may just be upgrading sooner, which sets a higher bar for sales and allows less time for fixing things.
Dragonborn
Member
Definitely, it's pretty crazy how Titanfall's hype just died. I realize that obviously happens after a game is released but not that fast (at least not for a game that hyped).
The problem is that even without the Kinect in the box, the Xbox One APU is still more expensive to manufacture then the PS4 one. Despite the weaker GPU, the thing has even more transistors then the PS4's APU due to the eSRAM. If you see a picture of the APU the eSRAM chunk is fucking huge.
So it ends up being more complicated to manufacture, reducing yields and being more expensive. I think the estimates placed it about $10 above the PS4's APU cost. The only place the Xbox One wins is the cost of RAM, but as GDDR5 becomes more common and use of DDR3 reduces the costs will flip.
Microsoft simply ended up with a weaker and more expensive box.
So it ends up being more complicated to manufacture, reducing yields and being more expensive. I think the estimates placed it about $10 above the PS4's APU cost. The only place the Xbox One wins is the cost of RAM, but as GDDR5 becomes more common and use of DDR3 reduces the costs will flip.
Microsoft simply ended up with a weaker and more expensive box.
zackmorris
Member
They don't need to undercut Sony's price. If they announce some decent exclusives that's really all they need. Maybe make the 450 dollar price cut permanent.
$399 with Kinect and Titanfall.
Microsoft drops the Halo 2 Remaster bomb and the new "Halo One" bomb
No Kinectless SKU anytime in the near future.
Sony drops The Last Guardian and Shenmue 3 bombs.
Rockstar drops the GTA V next gen bomb.
Nintendo drops $249 Wii U and Zelda U bombs
Everyone wins.
Microsoft drops the Halo 2 Remaster bomb and the new "Halo One" bomb
No Kinectless SKU anytime in the near future.
Sony drops The Last Guardian and Shenmue 3 bombs.
Rockstar drops the GTA V next gen bomb.
Nintendo drops $249 Wii U and Zelda U bombs
Everyone wins.
I don't know if they can afford to - especially if they keep kinect.
But if they do price match, I don't see Sony reacting instantly. They can push the message that they are more powerful, cite all the games out that run better on PS4, hammer home that PS4 is the place for your Multiplatform games - why pay the same for less?
And hopefully show a ton of exclusives (not sure what else MS can show after last E3 - maybe they'll be forced to tease things like gears of war even though it is far off)
But if they do price match, I don't see Sony reacting instantly. They can push the message that they are more powerful, cite all the games out that run better on PS4, hammer home that PS4 is the place for your Multiplatform games - why pay the same for less?
And hopefully show a ton of exclusives (not sure what else MS can show after last E3 - maybe they'll be forced to tease things like gears of war even though it is far off)
Miles Quaritch
Member
They should go for the jugular instead.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I think they'll go 399 with kinnect and no bundle. Nothing lower than that
outunderthestars
Banned
No way in hell MS takes a $150 hit on each XB1.
I only know one person who picked up the game (IRL and online friend lists) that is still playing it. They went back to BF4 and CoD, because only some of their friends got the game and they didn't want to play without them, or because (in the case of my best friend) TF is just... too simple, I guess. According to him, it lacks any diversity in long term gaming. He had fun for a week or two, but then went back to Battlefield.
RedAssedApe
Banned
did the xbox 360 version even make a peep? normally for that type of hyped release you'd get a "so and so sold x millions in 24 hours"
the several week delay killed any hype for the game for me. a few of my friends bought it but only because of the b2g1 at Target.
anyone know what the online numbers are per platform at the moment?
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