PHOENIXZERO
Member
No major console/PC/multi-platform developer is going to make a AAA game solely utilizing FP16, the areas FP16 is actually useful is relatively limited. There's a reason it was moved away from over a decade ago.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wolfenstein II and Far Cry 5 will support FP16 Rapid Packed Math
- Thread starter ethomaz
- Start date
No major console/PC/multi-platform developer is going to make a AAA game solely utilizing FP16, the areas FP16 is actually useful is relatively limited. There's a reason it was moved away from over a decade ago.
ethomaz
Banned
It was heavy used in the past with a lot of performace beneficies but when the GPUs moved to Unified Shaders the specification was all defined with FP32 because at the time the FP32 units catch the FP16 at 1:1.
So while the performace is 1:1 there is no beneficie to use FP16 but if it is 2:1 then more and more devs will start to use it.
Even if it is a 10-20% gain in performace it is already great.
Maintenance
Member
Not really. It will help gain some FPS for Pro but thats it.
Ita still minimal and wont make Pro that much better
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
FP16 has very real performance benefits. It's the reason Snake Pass (an UE4 game which uses a lot of modern shaders and effects) can run on Switch using it's baseline 157gflop GPU.
Great to see it being used in big name titles.
That can be the difference between hitting a consistent 30fps and not on console. Huge.
Great to see it being used in big name titles.
That can be the difference between hitting a consistent 30fps and not on console. Huge.
sixteen-bit
Member
ready to fuck shit up with math
ethomaz
Banned
It is 13% and that could means the difference between a 55fps and 60fps game.
Or dips to 27fps and solid 30fps
Sad Affleck
Member
It is 13% and that could means the difference between a 55fps and 60fps game.
Or dips to 27fps and solid 30fps
Yep, it's significant. Every bit counts.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Glad this wasn't a thing when I was still in school. Sounds terrible.
Whatever I told y'all about this before we even knew the specs of PS4 Pro or Xbox One X all I told you was the facts & because y'all didn't understand you just attacked now people are looking like fools but instead of accepting that I was right you claim I was just being a console warrior.
Sad Affleck
Member
No, you did no such thing. We've talked about it before so I won't go into this again, no reason to derail the thread.
This guy is nuts. Hes insane in the FP16 threads.
He knows just as much as anyone that FP16 will NOT make the Pro match a certain other console.
It simply will help gain some fps period. Nothing more.
This is good news and noone is debating that but what hes always debated isnt about a good optimization tool its the destroyer of another system
jobrro
Member
Yes absolutely. If it could be applied to everything there would likely be something akin to double performance, if that was the case and everything was a simple conversion everything on PS4 Pro would be 4K native.
But it will still be interesting to contrast very similar consoles, the X with the 40% extra raw GPU power (and extra RAM capacity and bandwidth) and the console with FP16 at double rate. The FP16 at double rate could amount to nothing or very little, but I am interested to see either way.
Tarin02543
Member
Blast Processing sounds way cooler.
Where have I ever said that fp16 was going to make PS4 Pro match Xbox One X? that's your insecurity that make you see those words when they are not there.
Dr. Carroll
Banned
They're sacrificing precision for faster performance. This is basically a game of "how much can we compromise before people start noticing?" Which is, granted, what optimization is all about 90% of the time.
Reminds me of how N64 games tended to run at 16 bit colour for better performance, but this caused banding issues some games masked with noise. A select few allowed players to switch to 24 bit colour. The Gamecube was the same, but I don't think any games have players a choice between 16 and 24 bit.
Reminds me of how N64 games tended to run at 16 bit colour for better performance, but this caused banding issues some games masked with noise. A select few allowed players to switch to 24 bit colour. The Gamecube was the same, but I don't think any games have players a choice between 16 and 24 bit.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
You'd think Guerrilla already jumped at the chance for some good efficiency gains.
Why would you be doubtful of that?
Caayn
Member
BigEmil
Junior Member
Didn't The Surge do this?
If devs are already doing the FP16 optimization for Pro games, hopefully they will bring that code to be used by AMD PC users.
idTech6 is a bit of anomaly since it is fully focused on Vulcan, which helps them to bring a lot of console code back to the PC land, but it is good to see that Ubi is also stepping up their PC game.
idTech6 is a bit of anomaly since it is fully focused on Vulcan, which helps them to bring a lot of console code back to the PC land, but it is good to see that Ubi is also stepping up their PC game.
I hope this plays out in a way that gives lower-end (but modern) chipsets a little extra "go." I know it's just a subset of rendering that can use the lower precision data, but especially if game engineers are "keeping an eye out" for scenarios that can take advantage of it, it's an interesting thing to show up in upcoming games.
I had mentally filed the capability under "neat but impractical," so this is something I'm hoping I was wrong about when benchmarks come out.
I had mentally filed the capability under "neat but impractical," so this is something I'm hoping I was wrong about when benchmarks come out.
...im doing the opposite. OnQ constantly derails any FP16 talk into 8.4tf blabla.
I think thisis great news and will benefit all gamers.
And where does it say that PS4 Pro will match Xbox One because of fp16?
Really? because my name make it to most of these threads before I do so how is it me derailing the thread?
PS4 Pro being 8.4TF fp16 is a fact I'm not sure why people are still trying to deny that.
inpHilltr8r
Member
It's another thing you can throw at each other in system wars.
FP16 has been a thing for decades. We use them even without hardware acceleration, just to save space. It's nice the AMD has a special name for them.
dragonelite
Member
Using fp16 has also benefits on the 1x, less data so it will be transferred faster faster from memory
I guess it depends on how much effort the devs are willing to put into the Pro version.
martino
Member
indeed useless facts are still facts.
If it was useless we wouldn't even have this thread.
martino
Member
indeed useless facts are still facts.
another useless fact is you will never see 100% benefit from using full fp16 in any game.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Future GPU generations should benefit so it's not just a one-off gain and there's already an install base of Pro owners.
edit: from DF's Mark Cerny interview
did you even watch the video in the OP? for you to be in this thread saying that it is useless don't make any sense at all.
family_guy
Member
Only care about the Vulkan support.
Your info is totally legit for the topic here, but people have criticized the other circumstances you brought it up and your implications, rather than refuting the individual piece of info.
It's like repeatedly insisting on bringing up the fact that "some children who recieved vaccinations were later diagnosed with autism" in a thread about vaccine safety. That can be a factual statement, but it's being used to mislead.
ethomaz
Banned
Please stay on focus...
This thread is more about the gains/beneficies that FP16 RPM could give to games in hardware that supports it. A good future comparison can be Far Cry 5 with RPM enable vs disabled running in a Vega GPU.
It can beneficiares the Pro? Yes it can but it is not the main focus of the thread.
This thread is more about the gains/beneficies that FP16 RPM could give to games in hardware that supports it. A good future comparison can be Far Cry 5 with RPM enable vs disabled running in a Vega GPU.
It can beneficiares the Pro? Yes it can but it is not the main focus of the thread.
InsaneTiger
Member
I don't think anyone is expecting 4K/60 out of this. What is the problem? You're fine Nut.
I think that comment was meant towards 8.4tf nonsense.
If this makes a game at 27 fps to 30fps hell that sounds great.
InsaneTiger
Member
Agreed, I'll take more games with solid 30 or 60 on any platform.
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
This just takes more performance out of GPUs that support it. However, the insane pursuit of resolution and graphic fidelity that consoles have suffered since the PS360 era will mean that framerate will stay the same with a few more bells and whistles.
And the CPU limitations won't go away.
InsaneTiger
Member
I am all for developers having all the tools they need to make their game run as efficiently as possible. The pursuit of resolution was the wrong pursuit, we should have been pushing for framerate. Alas, that will wait another generation.
Whether they the feature is up to them.
The only people that brought up 8.4TF was the people being sarcastic to troll
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Do they use this for AO implementations? Since clarity isn't as much of an issue there, it seems like this would work perfectly there, no?