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Xbox One Costs $90 More to Build Than PS4, Teardown Shows ($75 Kinect 2)

A

Alvarez

Banned
Theory: Microsoft went for the APU because the Xbox 360 was notorious for overheating and dying. An APU is less likely to have heat issues than a CPU + GPU. This would also explain why the Xbox One is fat compared to the PS4; Microsoft is paranoid about heat killing the hardware this time.

Time will tell if the PS4 is more vulnerable to overheating than the Xbox One.

APU is a bad choice for any console.
 
K

Kyon

Banned
Fffffffffffffff.

abH8W.gif
 
T

Tobor

Member
McHuj said:
I guess I'm surprised in that I assumed the PS4 one would have to be a higher quality one because it has to work efficiently in an enclosure and thus cost more. I assumed MS went with the cheapest off the shelf one.
Click to expand...

Another example of superior engineering. We get a nice clean box and Sony gets a cheaper part.
 
P

PG2G

Member
Alvarez said:
Theory: Microsoft went for the APU because the Xbox 360 was notorious for overheating and dying. An APU is less likely to have heat issues than a CPU + GPU. This would also explain why the Xbox One is fat compared to the PS4; Microsoft is paranoid about heat killing the hardware this time.

Time will tell if the PS4 is more vulnerable to overheating than the Xbox One.

APU is a bad choice for any console.
Click to expand...

Both of the consoles have an APU. The Xbox One's APU has eSRAM, the PS4's has a better GPU.
 
S

strata8

Member
Alvarez said:
Theory: Microsoft went for the APU because the Xbox 360 was notorious for overheating and dying. An APU is less likely to have heat issues than a CPU + GPU. This would also explain why the Xbox One is fat compared to the PS4; Microsoft is paranoid about heat killing the hardware this time.

Time will tell if the PS4 is more vulnerable to overheating than the Xbox One.

APU is a bad choice for any console.
Click to expand...

Uh, the PS4 uses an APU as well.
 
I

ICPEE

Member
Nerfgun said:
It really did.

That "8GB GDDR5" moment was when the wind shifted.
Click to expand...
I remember watching the reveal LIVE and when that 8GB part came up on screen i was like "HOLY SHIT!!!" remembering all the talk of 4GB here on Gaf prior to the reveal.

I would dearly like to know how Sony pulled it off.
 
G

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
So even without Kinect it's more expensive that the PS4. Now their insistence on bundling Kinect makes sense.

I don't think we're gonna see a Kinect-less SKU until 2015 at the earliest.
 
S

skc

Banned
This gen will be a race to see who racks up the least amount of losses over the short term.

Any bets?
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
McHuj said:
I guess I'm surprised in that I assumed the PS4 one would have to be a higher quality one because it has to work efficiently in an enclosure and thus cost more. I assumed MS went with the cheapest off the shelf one.
Click to expand...

I guess Sony use a similar design to the slim PS3 from the look of it, so they may have economies of scale built in to a certain extent.
 
K

kidfresh718

Member
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/

Despite selling more than a million Xbox Ones in less than 24 hours after launch, Microsoft is not going to make money off its latest gaming console anytime soon, prompting some analysts to advise a spin-off for the Xbox division. Barron’s points us to note sent on Friday by Nomura Equity Research analyst Rick Sherlund to investors claiming that Microsoft stands to lose more than $1 billion this year from its Xbox venture, a number that looks slightly better than the initial $2 billion Xbox One loss forecast from the same research firm.

Sherlund estimates that Microsoft will sell around 4.2 million Xbox One units, although the number may be too optimistic considering existing competition from the PlayStation 4 and early supply problems. Furthermore, in Sherlund’s opinion, the Xbox One can’t become a strong player in the entertainment business, as it faces increased competition from non-console devices including the iPhone, iPad and other smartphones and tablets that can be used for games and media consumption.

Therefore, the Xbox One would be a “good candidate to spin-off to shareholders,” Sherlund concludes. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen the analyst take this stance regarding Microsoft’s Xbox business. In previous notes to investors, he argued that the Xbox division should be sold, right alongside another cash-bleeding Microsoft business, the Bing search engine. Interestingly, rumored Microsoft CEO candidate Stephen Elop would reportedly be in agreement with these suggestions.
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/
 
Phawx

Phawx

Member
Hey guys,

This isn't a MS blunder. Please read.

MS wanted 8GB from the get-go. GDDR5 was deemed to expensive with that mindset. They chose DDR3.

Sony got lucky that GDDR5 prices fell and went 8GB.
 
S

skc

Banned
kidfresh718 said:
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/

Despite selling more than a million Xbox Ones in less than 24 hours after launch, Microsoft is not going to make money off its latest gaming console anytime soon, prompting some analysts to advise a spin-off for the Xbox division. Barron’s points us to note sent on Friday by Nomura Equity Research analyst Rick Sherlund to investors claiming that Microsoft stands to lose more than $1 billion this year from its Xbox venture, a number that looks slightly better than the initial $2 billion Xbox One loss forecast from the same research firm.

Sherlund estimates that Microsoft will sell around 4.2 million Xbox One units, although the number may be too optimistic considering existing competition from the PlayStation 4 and early supply problems. Furthermore, in Sherlund’s opinion, the Xbox One can’t become a strong player in the entertainment business, as it faces increased competition from non-console devices including the iPhone, iPad and other smartphones and tablets that can be used for games and media consumption.

Therefore, the Xbox One would be a “good candidate to spin-off to shareholders,” Sherlund concludes. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen the analyst take this stance regarding Microsoft’s Xbox business. In previous notes to investors, he argued that the Xbox division should be sold, right alongside another cash-bleeding Microsoft business, the Bing search engine. Interestingly, rumored Microsoft CEO candidate Stephen Elop would reportedly be in agreement with these suggestions.
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/
Click to expand...

What?
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
jcracken said:
this.
Click to expand...

That's wrong though. The Hynix fire only raised spot prices for DDR3 RAM, and those have come back down anyway because the fire was nowhere near as bad as first feared. Microsoft have a fixed price contract, they don't pay spot prices.

In reality, MS designers fucked up.
 
M

Maninthemirror

Banned
kidfresh718 said:
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/

Despite selling more than a million Xbox Ones in less than 24 hours after launch, Microsoft is not going to make money off its latest gaming console anytime soon, prompting some analysts to advise a spin-off for the Xbox division. Barron’s points us to note sent on Friday by Nomura Equity Research analyst Rick Sherlund to investors claiming that Microsoft stands to lose more than $1 billion this year from its Xbox venture, a number that looks slightly better than the initial $2 billion Xbox One loss forecast from the same research firm.

Sherlund estimates that Microsoft will sell around 4.2 million Xbox One units, although the number may be too optimistic considering existing competition from the PlayStation 4 and early supply problems. Furthermore, in Sherlund’s opinion, the Xbox One can’t become a strong player in the entertainment business, as it faces increased competition from non-console devices including the iPhone, iPad and other smartphones and tablets that can be used for games and media consumption.

Therefore, the Xbox One would be a “good candidate to spin-off to shareholders,” Sherlund concludes. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen the analyst take this stance regarding Microsoft’s Xbox business. In previous notes to investors, he argued that the Xbox division should be sold, right alongside another cash-bleeding Microsoft business, the Bing search engine. Interestingly, rumored Microsoft CEO candidate Stephen Elop would reportedly be in agreement with these suggestions.
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/
Click to expand...

Here we go again . This is one of the reasons I'm not buying it yet. Because i dont want to buy a console which will lose its primary source of billions of funding
 
F

FullMetaltech

Member
kidfresh718 said:
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/


Sherlund estimates that Microsoft will sell around 4.2 million Xbox One units, although the number may be too optimistic considering existing competition from the PlayStation 4 and early supply problems. Furthermore, in Sherlund’s opinion, the Xbox One can’t become a strong player in the entertainment business, as it faces increased competition from non-console devices including the iPhone, iPad and other smartphones and tablets that can be used for games and media consumption.

http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/
Click to expand...
So is this implying that that they did have a supply issue or still do?
 
W

Whiteshirt

Member
Phawx said:
Hey guys,

This isn't a MS blunder. Please read.

MS wanted 8GB from the get-go. GDDR5 was deemed to expensive with that mindset. They chose DDR3.

Sony got lucky that GDDR5 prices fell and went 8GB.
Click to expand...

Sony didn't get lucky. They chose to go with 8gb to provide longevity to their console and they achieve this by throwing out the PS Eye from their system. History would likely show that they did do the right decision.

When these guys are talking to Hynix or Samsung, they don't get surprised by this sort of shit. They know they're making denser modules.
 
H

harSon

Banned
kidfresh718 said:
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/

Despite selling more than a million Xbox Ones in less than 24 hours after launch, Microsoft is not going to make money off its latest gaming console anytime soon, prompting some analysts to advise a spin-off for the Xbox division. Barron’s points us to note sent on Friday by Nomura Equity Research analyst Rick Sherlund to investors claiming that Microsoft stands to lose more than $1 billion this year from its Xbox venture, a number that looks slightly better than the initial $2 billion Xbox One loss forecast from the same research firm.

Sherlund estimates that Microsoft will sell around 4.2 million Xbox One units, although the number may be too optimistic considering existing competition from the PlayStation 4 and early supply problems. Furthermore, in Sherlund’s opinion, the Xbox One can’t become a strong player in the entertainment business, as it faces increased competition from non-console devices including the iPhone, iPad and other smartphones and tablets that can be used for games and media consumption.

Therefore, the Xbox One would be a “good candidate to spin-off to shareholders,” Sherlund concludes. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen the analyst take this stance regarding Microsoft’s Xbox business. In previous notes to investors, he argued that the Xbox division should be sold, right alongside another cash-bleeding Microsoft business, the Bing search engine. Interestingly, rumored Microsoft CEO candidate Stephen Elop would reportedly be in agreement with these suggestions.
http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/
Click to expand...

Dude's been grinding his axe on the entertainment division since he came back.
 
R

Rad-

Member
Kinect 2 is actually cheaper than I thought. That means even if they release a Kinect-less model, it won't be that much cheaper. I can now see why they bundled it with every console. They fucked up the pricing in other ways, not with Kinect.
 
T

Tobor

Member
Phawx said:
Hey guys,

This isn't a MS blunder. Please read.

MS wanted 8GB from the get-go. GDDR5 was deemed to expensive with that mindset. They chose DDR3.

Sony got lucky that GDDR5 prices fell and went 8GB.
Click to expand...

That is absolutely a blunder. They made the wrong choice.
 
C

Crackbone

Member
Phawx said:
Hey guys,

This isn't a MS blunder. Please read.

MS wanted 8GB from the get-go. GDDR5 was deemed to expensive with that mindset. They chose DDR3.

Sony got lucky that GDDR5 prices fell and went 8GB.
Click to expand...


I don't believe it's luck. Sony has quite a bit more inside contacts and experience in the semi conductor industry.

More like, Sony wanted 4 GB of GDDR5 initially, and after speaking to developers were urged to go with 8 GB. The pricing worked out so that including 8 GB instead of 4 GB (with higher density chips being available).

Luck had very little to do with it.
 
I

infiniteheteroskdasticity

Member
This makes me wonder what a truly exotic console designed like the ps3/x360 to sell 200-300 under cost would look like. 20nm process with close to 1.5 times the logic would be my guess. At the end of the day the new consoles are pretty conservative compared to what came before and I don't think either manufacturer will have any issues turning over a tidy profit. It also points to a much shorter generation than the last one.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
skc said:
This gen will be a race to see who racks up the least amount of losses over the short term.

Any bets?
Click to expand...

Sony will benefit from software sales by being the market leader and console of choice for multiplatforms, but on the other side I expect MS will monetise their base much better than Sony so I expect it to be even over the short term. In the medium term I think Sony will be in a better position to profit, but it's too early to say conclusively.
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
Phawx said:
Hey guys,

This isn't a MS blunder. Please read.

MS wanted 8GB from the get-go. GDDR5 was deemed to expensive with that mindset. They chose DDR3.

Sony got lucky that GDDR5 prices fell and went 8GB.
Click to expand...

Price has nothing to do with it. There were no 512MB GDDR5 chips before Q1 2013.
 
Phawx

Phawx

Member
Whiteshirt said:
Sony didn't get lucky. They chose to go with 8gb to provide longevity to their console and they achieve this by throwing out the PS Eye from their system. History would likely show that they did do the right decision.

When these guys are talking to Hynix or Samsung, they don't get surprised by this sort of shit. They know they're making denser modules.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is correct, but initially they were going to use 4GB. Why was that?
 
S

Skenzin

Banned
mrklaw said:
the APU will drop in price faster for Sony - the chip is smaller so yields will already be higher. Plus the esram may make process shrinks more complex and lag behind PS4

I think neither have a huge advantage in terms of long-term cost reduction
Click to expand...

My point is MS has more silicon in their console, so they will benefit more from new process to reduce costs. BUT not by much. In the short term 1-2 years Sony will probably benefit more due to complexity of redesign for Xbone. But in 3-6 years Xbone should see more cost saving in its APU. Bone APU will always be more expensive, cause it is larger. but will see more cost savings because more of the Bone is on the APU.

But this is all neglible, we are talking 10% Bone cost saving over PS4. With other factors like Kinect, its a wash.

EDIT: We also don't know what the GDDR commodity market will be like, so that is a huge variable for Sony. MS can weigh DDR3 over DDR4 and move when it benefits them.
 
R

Resident_UA

Member
C

CoG

Member
Rad- said:
Kinect 2 is actually cheaper than I thought. That means even if they release a Kinect-less model, it won't be that much cheaper. I can now see why they bundled it with every console. They fucked up the pricing in other ways, not with Kinect.
Click to expand...

I don't think we'll ever see a Kinect-less SKU. The press on the Xbox One release focused mainly on the Kinect functionality. Without Kinect, it's just a slower PS4. I think at this point Microsoft would rather take a huge hit in dropping the price outright than removing Kinect. It's the only differentiator they have at this point.
 
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