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Xbox One VS. the EU law
- Thread starter Nilaul
- Start date
It's arguably more popular than actual soccer in the US.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I hope the European courts sticks it to MS relative to second hand sales. It would be glorious.
Looks promising.
it's the dudebro console after all, so yeah its targets demographics appeal more to the US population.
Damn I wanted to open a thread like this yesterday but went drinking with friends.
After I told my father everything I knew (and rumours ) of the Xbox One he said "Impossible, this won't get through law here."
My father is exactly in this job departement and has to look that companies don't do stuff like that. ( I'm from Germany)
Especially the Kinect and the monopol on how to sell used games ( having a license from MS, no private sell options) were really bad things.
Also the issue with the headsets, that microsoft wants use a complete new headset port for chat and selling a license to third party producers to sell headsets with this headset port are monopoly and a problem.
Damn Europe laws want that all mobile phones have the same charger port, they won't allow such shit by MS.
Especially the Kinect thing can't happen.
After I told my father everything I knew (and rumours ) of the Xbox One he said "Impossible, this won't get through law here."
My father is exactly in this job departement and has to look that companies don't do stuff like that. ( I'm from Germany)
Especially the Kinect and the monopol on how to sell used games ( having a license from MS, no private sell options) were really bad things.
Also the issue with the headsets, that microsoft wants use a complete new headset port for chat and selling a license to third party producers to sell headsets with this headset port are monopoly and a problem.
Damn Europe laws want that all mobile phones have the same charger port, they won't allow such shit by MS.
Especially the Kinect thing can't happen.
Delusibeta
Banned
ITT: people who think Ultimate Team is XbOne exclusive. No, that's Microsoft FUD, it's coming to PS4, just there's exclusive "content" for the mode, which will probably turn out to be special packs that cost twice as much and contain three times the cards.
Jex
Member
I'm pretty sure Microsoft have done a number of things in Europe knowing that they're going to get in trouble with the law but hoping that they'll win the eventual legal dispute. Just because they've thought it will work out okay doesn't mean that it will.
Alx
Member
I don't think it would. It may be a problem for a mp3 player because there are standards for those, but a console is a closed system and they always had specific ports/protocols for common device.
It's already happening, MS already sold kinect everywhere, including in Germany, the only difference with the X1 is that it will be packed in with each console. Or I don't see what "kinect thing" you're mentioning.
Contracts that are against the law are not binding anywhere
As for the broader issue, I don't have the strength to discuss this again in detail, but lets just say that it's not a settled area of law, but I wouldn't hold my breath regarding the used games issue.
What did you tell him in the last week everything has been confirmed by an exec then deconfirmed with a total different message, but does your country sell iPads ya know a system where no individual can resell a license and has cameras and a mic - MS has done a shit job of clarifying any of the information. But you should wait for cold hard facts.
Maybe that figure would be lower with ObamaCare.
Dirty American Teeth, it makes me sick.
YouEnjoyMySelf
Banned
Ha, most definitely. I know so many people who play FIFA but would neverrrrrr watch a soccer game on TV. Too funny.
obligatory
god I love our laws over here
That's awesome. Europe really does seem to have nice consumer protection in place.
Too bad the US will never be like this.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Kinect will need an option to be turned off when the console goes onto standby or even when it's on.
Any price floor they put into used games will be illegal as it is price fixing. That's actually true for the UK, Germany, France, Netherlands, Ireland and Spain as well as at EU level. National government's could also step in before the EU. In the UK specifically we have Distance Selling laws which also cover digital purchases so MS will also have to deal with that better.
It will be weird if Europe gets an unrestricted used game market and optional Kinect and in the US MS don't give these options because they aren't bound by law to do so.
Any price floor they put into used games will be illegal as it is price fixing. That's actually true for the UK, Germany, France, Netherlands, Ireland and Spain as well as at EU level. National government's could also step in before the EU. In the UK specifically we have Distance Selling laws which also cover digital purchases so MS will also have to deal with that better.
It will be weird if Europe gets an unrestricted used game market and optional Kinect and in the US MS don't give these options because they aren't bound by law to do so.
Lol they cut Ballmer's bonus to pay for it ^^
A while back EU also fined Nintendo for a gazillion for price gouging in the PAL region during the 90's.
Let's go European regulators.
edit: didn't know about the 560 million Euro fine for not including the browser choice in Windows for a couple months. Love it.
The law he cited doesn't apply to service that has already started, so prima facie it doesn't apply to Steam either. It's just not worthwhile for Valve to dispute the issue in more ways than one (they don't want to test the issue in ECJ).
zomgbbqftw
Banned
All will be forced to comply eventually. They will go after the most high profile company (Microsoft) and then all companies will fall in line.
THey have been talking about this since 2009, yet I'm still seeing iphones with there own charging ports. Last report I've heard that they are going to let Apple keep their own unique ports as long as they package an USB convertor adapter with the iphones.
EU does not have that strong of a backbone.
Gaf should band together and push for this right now. We're a gaming community, and our rights must be met. [for those of us in the EU anyway.]
Well... yeah. Of course.
I guess this is exactly why Microsoft was, and still is, so vague when commenting on reselling used games, fees for buying a used game etc.
They're looking for a way to either work around the law or just ignoring it by taking advantage of the bureaucratic process surrounding EU law.
Tbh. I've always been a PlayStation fan, and though I own both a 360 and PS3 there's nothing, as a gamer living in EU, that speaks for me changing to Xbox One over PS4.
They're looking for a way to either work around the law or just ignoring it by taking advantage of the bureaucratic process surrounding EU law.
Tbh. I've always been a PlayStation fan, and though I own both a 360 and PS3 there's nothing, as a gamer living in EU, that speaks for me changing to Xbox One over PS4.
Alx
Member
We have barely seen any game yet...
But if there are good ones (and there probably will), I'll consider buying one in 2014.
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
I feel like you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
Just on this page we have a press release quoted where Oracle lost a court case trying to shut down a reseller of a digital license.
I feel like you're the one without the idea.
For the first it is more the license what is causing the problem if I understood it correctly.
And Kinect doesn't have to be connected all the time at the 360.
Like I said also rumours, of course nobody thinks there are the hard facts
Just what is going around wouldn't be that helpful for microsoft, and Apple had problems in the EU, also the Xbox 360 had already big problems here, but nothing really will be removed from the market.
Eyemus Lutt
Member
The main issue is with the rumors of the used games and only allowing to sell it back to a Gamestop and removing private sales. There is no way that will get through in EU laws because it's basically colluding and price fixing on what you can get for your game when you sell.
ill get one if they impress me at e3
You can feel what you like, but wouldn't it better if you just replied to him in a civil manner?
Of All Trades
Member
Apple is plenty high profile and nothing has been done about the App Store. If the EU or any member country were interested at all in going after digital transfer rights they would have done so by now.
Where did this rumor surface? I ask because it would likely run afoul of trade laws in the US as well, and makes no sense if I can buy a game directly from the XBL marketplace.
I'd be curious, though, if it would run afoul of US/EU laws if certain stores were authorized to act as middle-men, but a secondary resale method was implemented (to use a Steam example, if I could return my games to my inventory and sell them on my own).
Considering lawyers who specialize in these issues have no idea what the implications of the ruling are or how ECJ would decide if the circumstances were slightly different (for example if the service aspect was more significant), it's better not to draw any definite conclusions from the case. Even if we take the ruling at face value, it's fairly trivial to get around it by tying more and more services and features like cloud into your product. EU isn't interested at all in tackling the topic right now, even if ECJ seems sympathetic.
Depending on the games and the whole every MP game has dedicated servers, I'm sorta interested. GPU upgrade for my PC and after that a PS4 has my preference atm though.
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
That PDF is dated from almost a year ago, has anyone gone after Apple or Steam yet? It's seems illogical to flat out state they are going to go after MS first. There is zero factual evidence at this time. Zero.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Yes. All of these companies will bail out of the largest market in the world because they will have to allow digital licences to be resold. That's the one.
Also, this is not a stupid law, I own the licence and I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it, including reselling it or transferring it.
Dark-Cloudz
Member
I think people who are making comparisons between Digital content like Steam/ iOS games etc... and physical Disc media are completely missing the point.
With a physical copy of a game, EU law is quite clear, you relinquish all IP rights when you sell the game in regards to who owns that particular copy. This means the purchaser can do what ever the like with it, as long as they don't break other EU laws such as piracy, copyright and trademark violations.
With a physical copy of a game, EU law is quite clear, you relinquish all IP rights when you sell the game in regards to who owns that particular copy. This means the purchaser can do what ever the like with it, as long as they don't break other EU laws such as piracy, copyright and trademark violations.
Who're you kidding? Faced with losing a significant chunk of their global business or fall in line with the regulators, these global multinational corporations are going to try to change the laws.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
This is not going to happen. And the law isn't stupid.
soulassssns
Banned
Of All Trades
Member
So Steamworks disc games aren't being sold in the EU? Online passes for console games don't exist?
Alternatively, you can sell an XBONE disc for whatever you'd like. It's borderline valueless, though.
It's such a murky area of law. Like previously said above even lawyers are not sure which way stuff is going to go and it all depends on what the ECJ is feeling at the time.
Are the discs even a physical good any more? If you read some of the interviewers the language they use is that the discs are just an installer for the digital licence. You are now purchasing a digital cd key. The information on the disc is just to help speed up the process. After it is installed the disc is no longer needed anymore. You can bin it. They lines between what is digital good and a physical goods are going to become even more blurred.
You have not been able to trade in PC games for years. Shops refuse to accept them because of the cd keys.