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Zack & Wiki accused of...
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
Primordial
Member
Fio Maravilha said:
oh wow!
by the way the game looks very interesting.
Twix said:
This is something that more and more people need to burst out of. Think about it for a while, there's absolutely no reason to respect many of the irrational and harmful belief systems around the world. Just the opposite. People should be able to talk about these things publicly and honestly. That _should not_ mean risking peace. Thank goodness for Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennet, Harris, etc.
Slurpy said:
A lot. And when you really start to think about it, or at the very least, after you do some research, you'll know.
deathkiller
Member
I am not completely sure but I am playing Aedis Eclipse: Generation of Chaos with Japanese Voices and I think that they changed Jesus Memories to Liliam Memories in the translation to English.
I don't care if it's offensive or not. When I heard the chant in the first place from the video, I really felt it was out of place. Why would some fictionnal tribe from the carribeans or from a remote island be muslims ??? It doesn't make any sense. -_-'
It doesn't make Capcom developpers look racist, but ignorant. Did they really think nobody would notice or recognize the chant ?
Anyway I'm buying the game, it's awesome.
It doesn't make Capcom developpers look racist, but ignorant. Did they really think nobody would notice or recognize the chant ?
Anyway I'm buying the game, it's awesome.
Open Source
Banned
10 years from now CAIR will be complaining that game makers don't include enough muslim culture in video games.
it's one of those things where a special interest group just wants to make everyone their bitch.
it's one of those things where a special interest group just wants to make everyone their bitch.
[rant]Twix said:
So if MrLuna-Tiek believes in the god of penetration that forces him to penetrate everything he sees, we have to respect that, right? You know, for peace and all.
Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins and all that crap. If YOU want to honor your God, live by his name, do the good he tells you... Fine, but don't force others to do the same, and don't do it based on "you have to respect my religion".
[/rant]
Zack & Wiki still looks AWESOME by the way.
It seems games are becoming more high profile, people are actually paying attention to their content.
I remember all the furore of the psycho pigs UXB billboards , it was not because the little piggies where blowing each other up, but because they tried to sell it with sex in 20 foot high posters.
I remember all the furore of the psycho pigs UXB billboards , it was not because the little piggies where blowing each other up, but because they tried to sell it with sex in 20 foot high posters.
I just don't understand why this thread has turned into a debate on religion and/or freedom of speech. This case has nothing in common with the RE5 affair.
You don't need to be Muslim to find weird hearing islamic prayers in a fantasy game that takes place in a pirate-themed world. It was just goofy, distracting and innacurate.
You don't need to be Muslim to find weird hearing islamic prayers in a fantasy game that takes place in a pirate-themed world. It was just goofy, distracting and innacurate.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Exactly.
Everyone's running in and crying "CENSORSHIP", but this affects the game in absolutely no way whatsoever - it's been removed, controversy over.
They could have been singing kumbaya my lord. Oooh, the controversy.deepred said:
Do I believe in god? do I believe in me?
Some people wanna die so they can be free
(I said) life is just a game, were all just the same...do you wanna play?
Controversy controversy controversy
Prince nailed it, right there.
They didn't ask for the removal and send messages to the press because it was stupid, they did it because they found it to be OFFENSIVE.
I'm not arguing that it's stupid or not - I've seen the footage before and I didn't even notice anything slightly arabic in the background to be honest.
They asked capcom to remove it, and send press releases because they felt it was offending.
Saywhat?!
I'm not arguing that it's stupid or not - I've seen the footage before and I didn't even notice anything slightly arabic in the background to be honest.
They asked capcom to remove it, and send press releases because they felt it was offending.
Saywhat?!
devilscallmedad
Banned
They found it offensive, requested capcom to remove it who had no problems doing it.E-phonk said:
Why are your panties up in a bunch? do you find them finding this offensive as offensive?
BobJustBob
Member
RubberJohnny said:
It affects the entire game industry, when outside groups can demand that game content be altered and the companies just buckle.
Actually, for those who don't know what it is, it's just a cool audio sample that DOES fit within the context of the game. Is that ignorant? Yes. But it's not out of context.
It's not like non-muslims would recognize it for anything other than something that could easily be just a chant of some sort.
It's not like non-muslims would recognize it for anything other than something that could easily be just a chant of some sort.
Just give it up; apparently certain idiots will never grasp it. There would be legitimate grounds for accusations of censorship if there were any evidence that the audio sample was intended as a specific joke or comment about Islam. But there isn't.deepred said:
once again, somebody's being oversensitive here. and in this case, it sure as f*** isn't the Muslims.
RubberJohnny
Banned
I don't see the removal of this quote having an detrimental effect on the game, it's entirely arbritrary.
charlequin
Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
The phrase "allahu akbar," known as the takbir, is used in both the adhan (the call to prayer) and the iqama, or the commencement of prayer. This clip is definitely taken from a recording of one of these.
This particular issue wouldn't even be a big deal if people weren't getting ignorantly fired up after the RE5 thing. Islam, like many religions, has sacred texts which are not supposed to be used outside of a religious context; someone pointed this out to the developers (who I guarantee had just used the sound file because it sounded cool and was in some public-domain library) and they took it out. No big deal.
It's actually extremely destructive for people to fly off the handle about this, because it eliminates the possibility of people using actual constructive approaches to deal with these situations. "Don't ever find anything offensive" is an unreasonable and stupid stance to hold people to, so the best possible situation is for communication to be open enough that offended parties can raise their grievances, and then the content creators can change their work (if the offense was unintentional and/or due to an unimportant element of the work) or stick to their guns (if they're making an artistic statement that they stand by.)
Fio Maravilha said:
The amount of stupidity coming out of this post is just mindblowing.
BobJustBob said:
The thing is though, this wasn't an integral part of the gameplay, plot or anything really, it was just there out of ignorance, which is why it wasn't a big deal. I can guarantee you that if it was a huge part of the game, Capcom would fight a little harder to keep it in.
charlequin
Banned
FoneBone said:
It's an easy stance to take if you're trying to be "tough." It just doesn't make any sense and isn't productive.
devilscallmedad said:
I came in this thread to post about that! :lol
Didn't know about it until I played DMC3 and thought what those look like Islamic writings on the gate to the tower. It caught me off guard as I don't remember any controversy regarding it. I figured nobody or not many noticed it. Probably just dome dumb developer thinking the writings look 'exotic' or whatever and put them there - they do the same with the star of David. I don't have any particular anime in mind but I do remember seeing it used as a devil's sign in magic or something.
Fio Maravilha said:
JohnyDeepthroat
Member
I think it's fair to say that Capcom is composed of nazi-like racist christians.
or not..
perfectchaos007
Member
Why would muslims get mad that Zack and Wiki are saying God is great in their language? I would see it as a compliment. I'm a Christian. And if in the game they screamed out "JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS!" I'd be fine with it. I would think that OTHER groups/religions would be complaining about that, but definitely not Christians themselves would complain. Thats why it's wierd to me that a Muslim is complaining about them chanting "God is Great" in Arabic.
TheGreatDave
Banned
I don't pretend to understand the situation, and how it could possibly offend. At least they didn't object to anything that acutually matters to anybody that wants to play the game I guess.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Fio Maravilha said:
The most Islamic country in the world, Indonesia, currently has comparable women's rights to most "2nd world" countries. Tunisia, Morocco, Turkey, and many other Muslim countries are similarly tolerant.
Perhaps you have a point arguing against, for example, Iran or Saudi Arabia, but it should be noted that a) these countries do not represent all of Islam, and b) these two countries have completely opposite interpretations of Islam.
At any rate, it's rather strongly discouraged here to keep ethnocentric or faith-baiting remarks out of gaming discussion. If you really want to discuss women's rights under Islam, a better place to do it is to start an Off-Topic thread about the issue.
TheGreatDave said:
It's offensive because it's associating the Islamic call to prayer with a tribe of monkeys. Monkeys have long been used by racists as a way of calling minorities sub-human. Even without the monkey context, it's still offensive in the sense that it uses the call to prayer in a somewhat inappropriate way.
Unfortunately since the death of the old mass and the decline of the Gregorian Chant there's no real Christian analogue to use as a metaphor, but I guess you could try by saying that most Christian organizations would be offended if an evil, sub-human, or similarly negatively portrayed group said the Lord's Prayer, or if the symbol of an evil leader was the crucifix or anything like that.
That's not to say that Islam isn't especially sensitive about issues like this, because it is. But most religions would argue against the misappropriation of their symbols and in this case CAIR believes that it is a misappropriation of the call to prayer.
starchild excalibur
Member
ZiZ said:
You make too much sense! I'm going to continue complaining about the issue anyway!
Stumpokapow said:
You, too!
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Zer0 said:
There's this magical thing called context.
You know how there's a difference between someone who drops a bowling ball on their foot and yells "Jesus Christ", someone who says "Thank God" when they win the lottery, someone who says "We should kill [Muslim leaders] and convert them to Christianity" and someone who says "Jesus taught to turn the other cheek"?
Same deal applies here.
If you already knew that, then your post boils down to "I hate Muslims" and you shouldn't be in the thread. If you didn't already know that, please make sure to think before you speak in the future.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Zer0 said:
Yeah so I guess all of these incidents of Americans threatening or commiting violence against Muslims or even just people they think look like Muslims must mean that Americans are all hate-mongering racists, right?
The fact that stoning exists in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and tribal Waziristan has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the rest of the largely moderate Muslim world, including (as I mentioned) the largest Muslim country in the world, Indonesia, as well as other countries including Turkey, Morocco, Tunisia, the UAE, and the list goes on.
It should also be noted, AGAIN, that the two main culprits when it comes to human rights abuses in the Islamic world, Iran and Saudi Arabia, practice two very different versions of Islam--so the commonality in their practices is more than likely linked to something other than an inherent barbarism in Islam.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
GSG Flash said:
It happens. (work safe) and here (not really work safe; dead body buried in rocks although there's no visible gore or blood)
The problem with his claim isn't that the stoning doesn't happen. It's that you should not link those actions to mainstream Islam because a) the vast majority of Islamic countries are not like this, and b) the Islamic countries that are like this are diametrically opposed in terms of their interpretations of Islam and so the commonality of punishment likely has cultural roots that are irrespective of Islam.
Stumpokapow said:
Oh yeah, I knew they happened, I just wanted to see him provide the proof of it (which I doubt he would've been able to).
He obviously has a blind hatred for Islam and isn't worth rationalizing with, what he's saying would be on par with me saying that all white people are part of the KKK and every white person shares Nazi ideologies.
ElectricBlue187
Member
i hate this crap it makes me so angry when creativity is censored or blocked because someone with an overactive victim complex threatens to sue