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speedpop · Mar 18, 2005

A friend's comment (who likes Game Arts) upon hearing the news - "cool. wonder if it'll be shit."

Shard · Mar 18, 2005

Deep.

Soul4ger · Mar 18, 2005

jarrod said:
Alfa System did okay with Narikiri Dungeon 2-3... what other RPGs have they made?

That's precisely my point.

fse · Mar 18, 2005

Future DS line up looks hot

jarrod · Mar 18, 2005

Soul4ger said:
That's precisely my point.

Point taken... though Alfa System's a pretty solid team I think.

f_elz said:
Future DS line up looks hot

Yeah, particularly for role playing, simulation and adventure games...

-Advance Wars 3: Battle for Omega Land (Nintendo)
-Age of Empires (Majesco)
-Animal Crossing (Nintendo)
-Animetic RPG (Arika)
-Another Code (Nintendo)
-Baten Kaitos DS (Namco)
-Boktai (Konami)
-Castlevania (Konami)
-Deep Labyrinth (Interactive Brains)
-Dragon Quest Monsters series (Square Enix)
-Dragon Quest Slime Morimori series (Square Enix)
-Dust & Shadows (Neko)
-Egg Monster Hero (Square Enix)
-Europa Universalis II (Pocket PC Studios)
-Far East of Eden series (Hudson)
-Final Fantasy III (Square Enix)
-Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles series (Square Enix)
-Fullmetal Alchemist (Bandai)
-Fushugino Dungeon Pokémon World: Pikachu's Adventure (ChunSoft)
-Ganbare Goemon! (Konami)
-Gyakuten Saiban (Capcom)
-Harvest Moon: Korobokkle Station (Marvelous Interactive)
-Johnny Rocketfingers (Conspiracy Entertainment)
-Legend of the River King DS (Marvelous Interactive)
-Londonian Gothics: Mekyuu no Lolita (Mega Cyber)
-Lost in Blue (Konami)
-Lunar Genesis (UbiSoft)
-Magical Vacation II (Nintendo)
-Meikyuu (Aruze)
-Megaman Battle Network series (Capcom)
-Monster Summoner (Ertain)
-Monster Rancher Jamboree (Tecmo)
-Pokémon Diamond/Pearl (Nintendo)
-Rakugaki Kingdom series (Taito)
-Rekishi Simulation (Koei)
-SD Gundam G Generation DS (Bandai)
-Secret of Mana (Square Enix)
-Shin Megami Tensei DS (Konami)
-Spectral Force (Idea Factory)
-Super Robot Taisen DS (Banpresto)
-Tantei Adventure (Kids Station)
-The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords DS (Nintendo)
-Ubukawa Detective Case Files: The Masquerade Lullaby (Genki)
-Yu-Gi-Oh! Nightmare Troubador (Konami)
-Vandal Hearts (Konami)
-Xenosaga DS (Namco)
-Zoo Tycoon (THQ)

Deku · Mar 18, 2005

I'm still wondering why the PSP trolls care so much they find it worth their time to troll a thread about a game announcement for a platform they supposedly hate.

I can't help but feel a deep sense of worry and doubt about how this might 'negatively' impact their side, whatever that maybe.

What a stupid bunch of moron 6th graders do we have here on GAF that people can't be happy a new sequel to a well liked franchise is being released without it turning into pre-emptive damage control by trolls who obviously don't have anything better to do (like play games).

jarrod · Mar 18, 2005

Quick Alfa System gameography (because I'm bored)...

-Linda Cube (PC Engine Super CD-ROM) NEC Home Entertainment 1995
-Horned Owl (PlayStation) SCEI 1996
-Linda Cube Again (PlayStation) SCEI 1997
-Elemental Gearbolt (PlayStation) SCEI 1997
-Linda Cube (Sega Saturn) ASCII Corp 1998
-Gunparade March (PlayStation) SCEI 2000
-Shikigami no Shiro (Taito G-Net) Taito 2001
-Abarenbou Princess (PlayStation 2) Kadowkawa Shoten/ESP 2001
-Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 2 (Game Boy Advance) Namco 2002
-Shikigami no Shiro (Xbox) MediaQuest 2002
-Shikigami no Shiro Evolution (Xbox) MediaQuest 2002
-Shikigami no Shiro II (Naomi GD-ROM) Taito 2003
-Shin Seiki Evangelions 2 (PlayStation 2) Bandai 2003
-Shikigami no Shiro II (GameCube) Kids Station 2003
-Shikigami no Shiro II (PlayStation 2) Taito 2004
-Shikigami no Shiro II (Dreamcast) Kids Station 2004
-Shikigami no Shiro II (Xbox) Kids Station 2004
-Vampire Panic (PlayStation 2) Sammy 2004
-Shikigami no Shiro II (Windows) Kids Station 2004
-Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 3 (Game Boy Advance) Namco 2005
-Kenran Butoh Sai: The Mars Daybreak (PlayStation 2) SCEI 2005
-Shikigami no Shiro III (Taito Type X) Taito 2005

Soul4ger · Mar 18, 2005

jarrod said:
Quick Alfa System gameography (because I'm bored)...

-Linda Cube (PC Engine Super CD-ROM) NEC Home Entertainment 1995
-Linda Cube Again (PlayStation) SCEI 1997
-Elemental Gearbolt (PlayStation) SCEI 1997
-Linda Cube (Sega Saturn) ASCII Corp 1998
-Gunparade March (PlayStation) SCEI 2000
-Shikigami no Shiro (Taito G-Net) Taito 2001
-Abarenbou Princess (PlayStation 2) Kadowkawa Shoten/ESP 2001
-Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 2 (Game Boy Advance) Namco 2002
-Shikigami no Shiro (Xbox) MediaQuest 2002
-Shikigami no Shiro Evolution (Xbox) MediaQuest 2002
-Shikigami no Shiro II (Naomi GD-ROM) Taito 2003
-Shin Seiki Evangelions 2 (PlayStation 2) Bandai 2003
-Shikigami no Shiro II (GameCube) Kids Station 2003
-Shikigami no Shiro II (PlayStation 2) Taito 2004
-Shikigami no Shiro II (Dreamcast) Kids Station 2004
-Shikigami no Shiro II (Xbox) Kids Station 2004
-Vampire Panic (PlayStation 2) Sammy 2004
-Shikigami no Shiro II (Windows) Kids Station 2004
-Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 3 (Game Boy Advance) Namco 2005
-Kenran Butoh Sai: The Mars Daybreak (PlayStation 2) SCEI 2005
-Shikigami no Shiro III (Taito Type X) Taito 2005

So, they did the Linda Cube games, too... I didn't know that. That list also doesn't include Project: Horned Owl.

vireland · Mar 18, 2005

Quick Alfa System gameography (because I'm bored)...

Not bored enough. There's a bunch of PC-Engine stuff they did with Telenet and Hudson Soft that wasn't listed.

jarrod · Mar 18, 2005

Soul4ger said:
So, they did the Linda Cube games, too... I didn't know that. That list also doesn't include Project: Horned Owl.

Thanks.

vireland said:
Not bored enough. There's a bunch of PC-Engine stuff they did with Telenet and Hudson Soft that wasn't listed.

Really? It's not on their website anywhere. :/

SolidSnakex · Mar 18, 2005

As long as i've waited for a proper sequel to Eternal Blue, they better not be screwing me over with a handheld sequel (this would be the same if it were on the PSP). I want a proper sequel to EB.

jarrod · Mar 18, 2005

SolidSnakex said:
As long as i've waited for a proper sequel to Eternal Blue, they better not be screwing me over with a handheld sequel (this would be the same if it were on the PSP). I want a proper sequel to EB.

It's a prequel, not a sequel.

I wouldn't mind seeing Neverland's Lufia/Estopolis III show up on DS.

dark10x · Mar 18, 2005

I thought you didn't own a DS, jarrod? I only wonder because you are one of the only really enthusiastic DS supporters I've encountered in the past couple months and it would be very strange if you still didn't own one.

Spike · Mar 18, 2005

vireland said:
Another factor (as I already posted in our threads at www.workingdesigns.com a while ago) is that I firmly now believe that the DS is indeed stillborn. I wanted to like it, but Nintendo's making it really, really hard. I'm keeping one system to play Goemon and Castlevania DS, and that's about it. My kids have moved on to PSP and are selling their DS machines, as I imagine many will once they experience the sexiness and functionality of the PSP.

So a system that could actually offer new ways to play games is stillborn, yet a system that offers the same games I play on my home systems is sexy/functional?

Maybe we should give some of the top-tier developers some time to get the ideas flowing and not write the system off as "stillborn" after only being on the market for a few months?

Hey, let me make myself perfectly clear here before I'm accused of being a fanboy. I hate handhelds. Yes, all of them. Why? Play Fire Emblem or Mario&Luigi and wonder why they weren't made for the Cube and you'll understand. Why can't I have Ridge Racers on my PS2?

Shouta · Mar 18, 2005

I want a Lufia II remake dammit. =P

Odnetnin · Mar 18, 2005

Oogami said:
I'm selling my DS

Oogami said:
Which I don't have.....

But anyway, very very disappointed at the news. I agree with dark10x, the DS is slowing down the gaming industry and no one should support it. Gamers shouldn't, gaming developers shouldn't either. Good job on Working Designs as well. I hope more company's people speak the truth like Vic did. I request Gamespot and IGN and EGM get rid of all DS contents too and let's pretend DS never happened. And all those who unfortunate enough to get a DS to sell it immediately. PSP is coming and you know you want it. Thank you.

I don't want my beloved franchise Lunar releasing on such an inferior unsexy system. bah! At least Gamearts isn't developing it so it's all good.

troll away biatch.

drohne · Mar 18, 2005

handheld development generally and ds development particularly is a license to half-ass it. the whole point of the ds is to lower gamers' standards of what a full game entails. this obviously won't be the sequel lunar deserves.

jarrod · Mar 18, 2005

dark10x said:
I thought you didn't own a DS, jarrod? I only wonder because you are one of the only really enthusiastic DS supporters I've encountered in the past couple months and it would be very strange if you still didn't own one.

I don't... I'm waiting until the price drops and the library picks up. Same goes for PSP.

drohne said:
this obviously won't be the sequel lunar deserves.

Well, that's rather obvious considering it's coming from a different developer (Marvelous) who's not exactly known for high quality stuff. And it's a prequel.

I wouldn't mind it turning out similar to the "Four Hero Story" GBA hoax awhile back.

SolidSnakex · Mar 18, 2005

jarrod said:
Well, that's rather obvious considering it's coming from a different developer (Marvelous) who's not exactly known for high quality stuff. And it's a prequel.

Are those the same f'ck ups that made Lunar Legend?

Drensch · Mar 18, 2005

All we need is Drinky and we have a full on DS hatefest.

SolidSnakex: Makes ya want to buy an Italian cell phone, si?

jarrod · Mar 18, 2005

SolidSnakex said:
Are those the same f'ck ups that made Lunar Legend?

No, that was Media Rings. Marvelous produces Harvest Moon and River King among other things.

Soul4ger · Mar 18, 2005

SolidSnakex said:
Are those the same f'ck ups that made Lunar Legend?

Like I said before, Media Rings developed the game, but Marvelous Entertainment published it in Japan, I think.

*Edit - Did Lunar Legend even come out in Japan?

jarrod · Mar 18, 2005

Marvelous and Media Rings are entirely seperate. And yes, Lunar Legend came out in Japan in eraly 2002 iirc.

Ruas · Mar 18, 2005

Sweet. But is this the true new Lunar? I hope not. I'd like to see it on a console.

explodet · Mar 18, 2005

drohne said:
handheld development generally and ds development particularly is a license to half-ass it. the whole point of the ds is to lower gamers' standards of what a full game entails.

I agree with some of what you have to say, but the half-assing is mainly on the graphics-side (which I presume you are one of these so-called whores of graphics).

With the DS, there's this whole weird control scheme available that, I presume, some developers don't want to touch with a 10-foot stylus. There's no good excuse for half-assness, they'd rather just not bother. They could take the time and make a game that could really be fun... but they'd rather take what they know from console development and apply it to the PSP and get their sales that way. Or they'd take games from pocket PCs and try the same thing with with DS ignoring the fact that the two markets are totally different.

Please remember, the above is not meant to be a statement of fact.

Soul4ger · Mar 18, 2005

jarrod said:
Marvelous and Media Rings are entirely seperate. And yes, Lunar Legend came out in Japan in eraly 2002 iirc.

Who published?

SolidSnakex · Mar 18, 2005

Drensch said:
SolidSnakex: Makes ya want to buy an Italian cell phone, si?

Yep.

jarrod said:
Marvelous produces Harvest Moon and River King among other things.

How much RPG experience?

djtiesto · Mar 18, 2005

I heard that Linda Cubed game was really good though never did look for a copy to import. I could see how a stylus/separate screen would be useful for RPG type games - select commands by pen/seeing your status without having to call up a separate window. 2D graphics would be fine for Lunar but I'm guessing they'll half-ass the music like they did with the PSX ports

MassiveAttack · Mar 18, 2005

SolidSnakex said:
Yep.

How much RPG experience?

Harvest Moon series is developed by Marucome. Legend of River King is developed by Natsume I believe. jarrod?

Spike · Mar 18, 2005

So Vic, if you are so for the underdog, where is your Cube and Xbox support? I mean, I'm sure you could have translated at least one token title for each of the systems.

For the Cube, you could have gone after something like Doshin the Giant, or Nintendo's Puzzle Collection. If you wanted a bigger undertaking, Giftpia was out there. For the Xbox, Phantom Dust or that Fitness game was out there. I don't see how the PS2, the industry-leading console is an underdog.

Actually, I take it all back, Vic. I rather prefer that games don't have modern-day references in them (Clinton reference in Lunar:SSS) or have you decide to make changes to the gameplay system that the original creators came up with(SCD Lunar 2).

vireland · Mar 18, 2005

So Vic, if you are so for the underdog, where is your Cube and Xbox support? I mean, I'm sure you could have translated at least one token title for each of the systems.

Where are the XBOX RPGs in Japan? Pretty much not there.

Cube is somewhat better, but the cube games available in Japan aren't anything I've been excited about.

The games have to be there.

djtiesto · Mar 18, 2005

Vic - are you still doing shooters? I'd love to see an ESPGaluda stateside release, but I dunno if that'd fly over very well.

vireland · Mar 18, 2005

Vic - are you still doing shooters? I'd love to see an ESPGaluda stateside release, but I dunno if that'd fly over very well.

Shooters always *always* lose us money. We do them because we love them. However, we need to get back up to full speed with some more RPG releases before we can even consider something like that again.

Spike · Mar 18, 2005

vireland said:
Where are the XBOX RPGs in Japan? Pretty much not there.

RPG's? Shin Megami Tensei 9 is out there. I know it's Atlus, but since they weren't doing anything with it, maybe they would've done a deal with you.

Also, why not a shmup like Castle of Shikigami 1/2? Or Gungriffon? You did do Silpheed and Gungriffon for the PS2.

Edit: Ahh, about the shmups part, I was typing this post when you replied about them.

Edit: Maybe Magatama?

Oogami · Mar 18, 2005

Okay I'm back so I'll reply one by one...........

vireland said:
Maybe because the Saturn was the system getting no love at the time, and we supported it VERY well - wasn't Rayearth the very last US Saturn game released? Our PS1 adventures came only AFTER the Saturn's demise was guaranteed by too much BS.

You should probably brush up on your market history before trying to color your post to look a certain way.

:rolleyes Umm that's funny. I never talked about the Saturn. You don't read either like Shouta I suppose?

I question why you supported only the PS1 last gen and only the PS2 this gen when you were praising yourself how you love to support the underdog but when the truth is, you don't. So you were just lying or what?

Which you still seem to not answer yet(haven't read the later posts yet).

Spike · Mar 18, 2005

Oogami, WD didn't support only the PS1 last gen. They supported the Saturn exclusively up until that E3 when Sega stuck them in the corner of the complex where very few people go. Then they moved to the PS1.

Now, I agree with you when it comes to the PS2, though...

Oogami · Mar 18, 2005

dark10x said:
Well, to be fair, he has to consider the well-being of his company. It's one thing to root for an underdog, but it's another thing entirely to throw everything at it. The fact of the matter is, WD is a small company and they really can't afford to take such chances. People dogged them for not supporting the DC, but if they HAD attempted support, they would never have been able to release a game for it. Sega would have pulled the carpet out from under them for the second time.

Now, EA is a company that I feel could and should have supported the DC. They had the resources and they could have shared them. I really think it could have helped Sega's cause. Working Designs, though? No chance. They would have been screwed if they jumped on the DC bandwagon.

Still, it's pretty clear that they did support the underdog platforms up until the PSX era, at which point, they had nowhere else to turn. With games becoming much more complex, they probably need to stick with the safe zones in order to survive.

For the record, I've never suggested that the DS should be abandoned. I'd like to see some fun concepts show up and impress us. However, like I said, when it comes to well established game types, I can't help but feel as if creating content for the DS is short changing the games themselves and the experience I will have.

Well Vic was the one who said he roots for the underdog. His company surviving or not is none of my business. I'm just questioning why he said something that he doesn't do. that's all.

Diffense · Mar 18, 2005

I think I understand the logic now...

If DS does not get enough games, it's unworthy of purchase.

Is DS does get enough games it unworthy of the games.

Because,

DS is evil.

We hate DS....

Die DS...

!waaah!

*sob* *sob*

Can't believe most of this thread has been spent *complaining* that the Lunar DS game isn't a port.

vireland · Mar 18, 2005

I question why you supported only the PS1 last gen and only the PS2 this gen when you were praising yourself how you love to support the underdog but when the truth is, you don't. So you were just lying or what?

ON BALANCE, we have supported systems that were underdogs because we believed in the games. That doesn't mean we EXCLUSIVELY now and forevermore will support only underdogs. The process is more complicated than just hardware, anyway.

Look at the games we've done. In hindsight people are like "wow, those were/are good games", but when we chose them almost without exception NO ONE wanted them. The only exception was LUNAR, AFTER we made the SEGA CD one moderately successful.

Oogami · Mar 18, 2005

Shouta said:
Did you even comprehend what I wrote? I said he was with the Saturn long before he was releasing material for the PS1 (well, not really that long but it was obvious WD's support was with the Saturn). It wasn't until it wasn't feasible to release more Saturn software that they started jumping on the PS1 stuff more heavily. I've always considered RPGs to be WD's staple and the system they released the most RPGs on was their primary and it was the Saturn well before the PS1. It's an example of what he did say he was all about.

While Saturn is one example of him being true, PS1 and PS2 are 2 examples of him being hypocrite.

And besides RPGs, WD do shooters as well. N64 and Xbox and GCN all have plenty RPGs and shooters for WD to do. Especially when a small time publisher Natsume having success with Harvest Moon on the GCN and N64, WD could too. But they just waste that chances.

There's the fact there has to be a feasible gamebase for them to support. WD's always thrived on much smaller and nicher titles to bring over for folks and there simply wasn't enough on other systems for them to support releasing games for that system regularly.

Read my examples of games on other consoles for them to do. I'm sure there's more than enough for them to do, especially we're talking about WD here.

Sure, the PS2 doesn't support his statement

Exactly. I see we're on the same page here.

Does WD have games they want to release on the system? Are there more loops to jump through than before? What about production costs?

That's exactly the risk you're willing to take if you root for the underdog. So..........

vireland · Mar 18, 2005

I think I understand the logic now...

If DS does not get enough games, it's unworthy of purchase.

Is DS does get enough games it unworthy of the games.

Not MY logic. I still kept one unit to play the couple games I'm looking forward to.

Oogami · Mar 18, 2005

vireland said:
ON BALANCE, we have supported systems that were underdogs because we believed in the games. That doesn't mean we EXCLUSIVELY now and forevermore will support only underdogs. The process is more complicated than just hardware, anyway.

Ok, reading more posts now I hope I wasn't being too harsh on your company. I understand a company needs to support the system with the bigger userbase in order to survive afterall.

So why no support on the GBA at all? Don't tell me that GBA has no profitable game to do. THQ is getting bigger much thanks to the GBA. Natsume is happy about the GBA too. So it seems to me it's more to do with system fanboyism than anything, not what's good for your company's finances.

Amir0x · Mar 18, 2005

vireland said:
Shooters always *always* lose us money. We do them because we love them. However, we need to get back up to full speed with some more RPG releases before we can even consider something like that again.

Damn, dude. I respect the dedication, but shit - you're a business, right? I mean, a business that brings us games... but sometimes you just gotta do what's right for the bottom line!

Heh, never thought I'd say that...

...anyway, I know a few people who would LOVE someone to bring Princess Crown if Konami shafts us with the PSP version and keeps it in Japan... mm hmm... I can think of at least one person! Perhaps he's even typing this very moment!

vireland · Mar 18, 2005

So why no support on the GBA at all? Don't tell me that GBA has no profitable game to do. THQ is getting bigger much thanks to the GBA. Natsume is happy about the GBA too.

There's no fanboyism there. I have a GBA. I have many GBA games. I like them very much. (Truth be told, I have or have had at least one of almost every mid 80's and up system - I still curse myself for trading away a mint Vectrex with original box and games long ago!)

The problem is that the GB/DS media is cart based (used to be a LOT more expensive, now just slightly), and there is a lead time for manufacture that is 2-4x LONGER than for disc-based media. When you order product, you pay with a letter of credit or cash up front. In either case, that money is tied up in THAT project. Guess wrong and have too few games? You'll wait at least 2-3x longer than disc based games to get more. That herky-jerkiness of the supply is smoothed if you have lots of money and just order a bunch of everything (THQ comes to mind). It's far less efficient for a company our size.

Oogami · Mar 18, 2005

Okay fair enough.

CO_Andy · Mar 18, 2005

I'm glad that a new Lunar iz coming out, but i'm a bit worried bout the series' future. If a new (and great) Lunar game came out for the home systems, wouldn't Ubisoft use their $ to publish it?

That would really stink! I mean, just look at their translation for Guardian Heroes Advance! I'm personally so repulsed by it, i dare not touch the game again.

Crankenstein · Mar 18, 2005

Shard said:
I think you have GAF confused with some other forum.

drohne. dark10x. DS. The results are predictable.

Bluemercury · Mar 18, 2005

drohne said:
handheld development generally and ds development particularly is a license to half-ass it. the whole point of the ds is to lower gamers' standards of what a full game entails. this obviously won't be the sequel lunar deserves.

And do you expect what from a portable machine?the same experience of a home one?

dark10x · Mar 18, 2005

Crankenstein said:
drohne. dark10x. DS. The results are predictable.

Were my points invalid?

SomeDude · Mar 18, 2005

What made the past Lunar games so great? Just wondering, I havn't played them.

Support NeoGAF

Lunar Genesis for DS IS a new game in the Lunar RPG series!

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