The PAL version doesn't support 60hz TVs natively? I know at the very least it could be patched to NTSC and run at 30 fps either on Wii or Dolphin.
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Xenoblade announced for New 3DS
- Thread starter Dwight Schrute
- Start date
The PAL version doesn't support 60hz TVs natively? I know at the very least it could be patched to NTSC and run at 30 fps either on Wii or Dolphin.
The PAL version supports 60Hz and runs at 30fps. The European version running with 25fps is a bug exclusive to Dolphin.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Is this definitely true? I thought that the PAL game ran at 25fps, regardless of the refresh rate set at 60Hz
Yes, it's true.
RPGCrazied
Member
Can you imagine the jaggies in this version? The Wii had quite a few in 480p, can only imagine how the game will look in 240p? Is that the resolution of a 3DS screen? Seems like a wasted opportunity.
OmegaSmash
Member
Agreed on that. I felt that Last Story's linearity and positioning gameplay would benefit more from the 3DS, as would the online portion as well. Though to be quite frank, I'm sure Mistwalker would find a way to make it play worse on 3DS.
If they made it easier to track people (what was up with that terrible system of npcs and vague connections?) and sidequests, it would be great too. Xenoblade could use tightening up, no doubt. We'll see if they decide to do so.
A Wii U is not that much more expansive than a New 3DS and you'd also be able to play the sequel on it.
I've pointed this out numerous times. If you don't have a wii u why get a new 3ds just for xenoblade?
Anti aliasing is a completely seperate graphical feature from resolution.
Now, running at ridiculously high resolutions does reduce visible aliasing naturally. That only comes into effect as we approach 4K, and is really only relevant on PC setups.
Aliasing actually becomes more apparent when you stretch an image. IE when you are outputting a Wii signal at 480p on a 1080p display.
So, uh... Did we get any actual screenshots, or are we still discussing compressed trailer stills? I mean, I guess it's Nintendo, so the images will be compressed either way but...
The jaggies should be familiar to anyone who has played a 3D game on 3DS without anti-aliasing. At least this will be rendered at the native res of the display, so it's not like the Wii version on an HDTV where an image like this:
...is stretched to fill a 1080p display.
The frame rate is unfortunate, but the Wii version also had some performance issues so it's to be expected, I guess, and there's still time for more optimization. The disappearing grass is in the Wii version too:
Grass
No grass
It was probably scripted this way to prevent things from blocking the camera with up close low res textures. The reason the grass takes so long to appear in the clip is probably because the lod models aren't loaded until the camera is looking in their direction. This can easily be observed by using the Free Look utility in Dolphin to see outside of the view of the in-game camera:
Here, the ground outside of the view of the game camera is bare, and the chest is invisible, because these things wouldn't normally be seen anyway as they are outside of the normal camera view frustrum. I'm guessing the New 3DS requires a little more time to load this stuff than the Wii did.
If you look for it, you can see stuff load in after camera changes in the Xenoblade Chronicles X footage as well, although the amount of time it takes to do so is much smaller, probably because of the differences in hardware. Anyway, it shouldn't be too much of a problem during gameplay, although as you can see it's quite apparent during cutscenes.
DISCLAIMER: All images from Dolphin, so they may not be exactly accurate to what you'll see in the Wii version. Just wanted to share what I got from the footage and how it relates to the existing version of Xenoblade.
The jaggies should be familiar to anyone who has played a 3D game on 3DS without anti-aliasing. At least this will be rendered at the native res of the display, so it's not like the Wii version on an HDTV where an image like this:
...is stretched to fill a 1080p display.
The frame rate is unfortunate, but the Wii version also had some performance issues so it's to be expected, I guess, and there's still time for more optimization. The disappearing grass is in the Wii version too:
Grass
No grass
It was probably scripted this way to prevent things from blocking the camera with up close low res textures. The reason the grass takes so long to appear in the clip is probably because the lod models aren't loaded until the camera is looking in their direction. This can easily be observed by using the Free Look utility in Dolphin to see outside of the view of the in-game camera:
Here, the ground outside of the view of the game camera is bare, and the chest is invisible, because these things wouldn't normally be seen anyway as they are outside of the normal camera view frustrum. I'm guessing the New 3DS requires a little more time to load this stuff than the Wii did.
If you look for it, you can see stuff load in after camera changes in the Xenoblade Chronicles X footage as well, although the amount of time it takes to do so is much smaller, probably because of the differences in hardware. Anyway, it shouldn't be too much of a problem during gameplay, although as you can see it's quite apparent during cutscenes.
DISCLAIMER: All images from Dolphin, so they may not be exactly accurate to what you'll see in the Wii version. Just wanted to share what I got from the footage and how it relates to the existing version of Xenoblade.
lostinblue
Banned
Not feeling it:
nope.
nope.
Lowering the resolution of both the display and the textures is pretty much making Xenoblade's existing visual issues even worse. At least it doesn't look like the character models themselves have been simplified.
I don't really think this will convince many people to get a New 3DS, but at least the game is getting more exposure, and Chronicles X needs all the help it can get, honestly.
Tidus_Great
Banned
new 3ds cant handle it, waste of time IMO
thats dolphin though. The wii never looked that good.
Ridic thing to say, resolution aside it looks almost identical and ifinal version willalmost guaranteed have a stable framerate considering they're using it as showcase for the hardware. I mean xenoblade never looked the best zoomed in on ground textures , the beauty is in the scale and vistas of the world and nintendo would never port it to show off the n3ds if it couldn't comfortably handle it.
Muffin Awesome
Member
Not feeling it:
nope.
Where are these screens pulled from YouTube?
If so, ...
If not, then I will have to see it on an actual system screen before judging.
lostinblue
Banned
Taken from the hidef stream of the nintendo direct.
Sadly the quality for the n3DS border (who is a 3D render, obviously) is perfect, video though, isn't. They were playing a reel that had encoding prior to be slapped in there.
It's obviously not 1:1 as has artifacts as it could appear a little crisper, but that's the content we have.
Textures are evidently lower res, half res at best and seems to have been done via batch, notice even the character eyes definition took a clear hit. Geometry looks similar on the characters.
Textures are worse.
The screenshots for the Wii version are from dolphin though, which means they're super sampled. I could boot the Wii and take them myself via direct framebuffer grab and match the equipments as I still have that save slot ready right at that part, but I don't have the time right now.
It also looks like no AA even in 2D. (the video for it obviously isn't 3D and it obviously has no AA)
The Wii doesn't as well, but it has more res going on.
I screencapped most of my Xenoblade playthrough I guess I could check it sometime soon.
Taking the AA aside... it did.
I made sure it was resized to actual size for both.
Source: I've taken a lot of xenoblade shots (more than 2600) running on actual hardware and they do look good.
R10Neymarfan
Member
Which is silly because 3DS will have more than enough RAM to have it 1:1 texture quality wise. Hopefully it's just the case of it being in beta and not representative of the final product.
lostinblue
Banned
Game uses a dual layer DVD on the Wii though.
The Japanese version is a single layer DVD (without dual audio going for it) so it fits into less than 5 GB but it's most likely very tight "as is" for a cartridge without going for a 8 GB one.
Something which Nintendo must be allergic to. This will at most, use a 4 GB cart.
I think we can kiss the dual audio options goodbye, this will use the UK localization job outside Japan. It would be easier to make it so that the n3DS wasn't region locked so we could use the japanese version with english language options if we imported it (as text takes comparatively little space, but that won't ever happen, no.
I suspect that's the biggest reason textures took such a fall. But it also has to be said that the Wii is/was a texturing beast for what it is and Xenoblade used that (all those bushes, xenoblade is a game that due to scope wasn't high polygon but was very textured. The Wii, with it's embedded GPU RAM and 1T-SRAM architecture (as the GC before it) as well as the way the GPU was designed internally... it's not surprising if the 3DS can't keep up with that as well even if it has more RAM going on. That's like saying the Xbox 1 was actually worse at texturing and transparencies than the DC. Some consoles have streanghts that are hard to overcome if they were designed with it in mind.
The 3DS GPU wasn't designed for being a texturing beast, it was designed to work with little ram and small buses (the RAM Nintendo used was never the intended for it)
Anyway, this seems like a bad fit for me. I'd buy it in a heartbeat as a HD port, I'd play it again and orgasm. I don't hate the fact they're doing this, but I'm not very interested, they're surely having a lot more work (as "this" running on a portable with less power and resolution is not easy) ... for nothing.
Hell, if it's for the 3D they can add that to the Wii U version that now will never happen.
The last page reminded me how much I love Nintendo's Inverse philosophy with games.
Nintendo Reveal - appetizer
Following Trailers - complimentary food stuffs
Release - Full Course
Compare
Other Reveal - Full Course (Look at DA GRAFIXS)
following Trailers - still legit guys, trust us.
leak - oh crap we burned the meal
release - take out with a coupon (future patch)
There is NO indication that this is what the game will look like when all is said and done. At best this is proof that the game is working on the hardware with minimal issues.
Also, Dolphin and HD Texture mods makes the game look worse due to how out of place and flat everything starts feeling.
Nintendo Reveal - appetizer
Following Trailers - complimentary food stuffs
Release - Full Course
Compare
Other Reveal - Full Course (Look at DA GRAFIXS)
following Trailers - still legit guys, trust us.
leak - oh crap we burned the meal
release - take out with a coupon (future patch)
There is NO indication that this is what the game will look like when all is said and done. At best this is proof that the game is working on the hardware with minimal issues.
Also, Dolphin and HD Texture mods makes the game look worse due to how out of place and flat everything starts feeling.
/unrelatedRant
Says you, after playing it in Dolphin again for the last couple of days without a shadow of a doubt Xenoblade's environments aren't done justice in 480p on the Wii and definitely not at the 3DS' 240p. 1080p makes an already visually pleasing game like Xenoblade absolutely shine.
lostinblue
Banned
Turns out I do have one of the pictures on my screencaps:
that's native.
That, versus this:
(day/night cycle aside of course)
bonus: actual framegrab is this (1:1, remember the Wii did 16:9 via anamorphic 4:3)
We all know Xenoblade is screaming for HD, thing is it isn't and wasn't made to be so. Textures can be bad even on the Wii, mostly on mechas and overall detail that could/should be geometric but uses a low res texture. And of course texture packs are very hit and miss, they hit it out with better res and have pretty variable quality going on that misses the team original intent. It's hard to go against that.
Fact is Xenoblade deserved a HD enhanced port with better character models and extra stuff it can shine in HD easily... But it does look bollocks on the Wii which is impressive considering it's assets, on a piece by piece basis are not all that impressive (they sacrificed a lot for scope)
that's native.
That, versus this:
(day/night cycle aside of course)
bonus: actual framegrab is this (1:1, remember the Wii did 16:9 via anamorphic 4:3)
We all know Xenoblade is screaming for HD, thing is it isn't and wasn't made to be so. Textures can be bad even on the Wii, mostly on mechas and overall detail that could/should be geometric but uses a low res texture. And of course texture packs are very hit and miss, they hit it out with better res and have pretty variable quality going on that misses the team original intent. It's hard to go against that.
Fact is Xenoblade deserved a HD enhanced port with better character models and extra stuff it can shine in HD easily... But it does look bollocks on the Wii which is impressive considering it's assets, on a piece by piece basis are not all that impressive (they sacrificed a lot for scope)
I'd love to post a bunch of comparisons in response to this, but I'm sure it would be met with the typical "It doesn't look that bad on my Wii."
Dolphin is the way to play Xenoblade. Hilarious that anyone would even think of refuting this.
lostinblue
Banned
I refute it in the same way I refute Ocarina of Time or RE4 texture packs being the shit.
They are higher res, yeah. They can look better yeah. But I never like them as much as the original textures bar, a professional developer taking it and redoing everything, or having the original assets with better quality. Plus, they're limited in what they can do, sometimes to fix something you have to add extra detail like extra geometry, texture packs can't do that.
It's down to original intent.
And since I went over the over 3000 screencaps I did of Xenoblade running natively...
Game looks darn good as is, and I'd kill for a HD port. By HD port I mean up-ported with enhancements, not just in HD, I mean better models, stencil shadows, self shadowing... better "official" assets.
Without that, the game is fine tuned for the Wii and it's 480p resolution (and even then, some texture work can look hideous), it clearly has the potential to scale really well... But I won't rely on a texture pack to pull it.
(look at that floor texture, how pretty!)
(floor is not too bad albeit not good, suffices to say, it was done with this distance and res in mind so it's not horrible, like it is in HD)
(shulk comes to live due to the clothing textures, which is failing on the 3DS)
BAD-ASS - note the wheel thing though, or the spikes, no amount of texture work can save the fact that it is shaving polygons there.
yeahhhhhhh!
Explosions in the sky!
A brave new world.
Ass.
I admit I didn't finish the images that I have, but I felt that was enough.
Anyway, that shit looks pretty rad on my TV, HD or not. And the fine tuning it has is for 480p, without texture packs in HD it never appears crisp. On the Wii, bar some big offenders here and there, it's quite pornographic.
It's an SD game, it's not a HD game trapped on a SD console. And that's what I wanted to see changing sometime, that was before the 3DS version was announced of course.
They are higher res, yeah. They can look better yeah. But I never like them as much as the original textures bar, a professional developer taking it and redoing everything, or having the original assets with better quality. Plus, they're limited in what they can do, sometimes to fix something you have to add extra detail like extra geometry, texture packs can't do that.
It's down to original intent.
And since I went over the over 3000 screencaps I did of Xenoblade running natively...
Game looks darn good as is, and I'd kill for a HD port. By HD port I mean up-ported with enhancements, not just in HD, I mean better models, stencil shadows, self shadowing... better "official" assets.
Without that, the game is fine tuned for the Wii and it's 480p resolution (and even then, some texture work can look hideous), it clearly has the potential to scale really well... But I won't rely on a texture pack to pull it.
(look at that floor texture, how pretty!)
(floor is not too bad albeit not good, suffices to say, it was done with this distance and res in mind so it's not horrible, like it is in HD)
(shulk comes to live due to the clothing textures, which is failing on the 3DS)
BAD-ASS - note the wheel thing though, or the spikes, no amount of texture work can save the fact that it is shaving polygons there.
yeahhhhhhh!
Explosions in the sky!
A brave new world.
Ass.
I admit I didn't finish the images that I have, but I felt that was enough.
Anyway, that shit looks pretty rad on my TV, HD or not. And the fine tuning it has is for 480p, without texture packs in HD it never appears crisp. On the Wii, bar some big offenders here and there, it's quite pornographic.
It's an SD game, it's not a HD game trapped on a SD console. And that's what I wanted to see changing sometime, that was before the 3DS version was announced of course.
lostinblue
Banned
I hope they offer it with every n3DS they sell.
Putting this game on the stores as the sole n3DS game will only create confusion and it should use a pretty big cart, this way they could avoid it and just include an 8 GB mini-SD card or something... and keep the dual dub.
That way everyone buying a n3DS will have the game and it might raise awareness of Xenoblade Chronicles X in a way limiting a title to a "new" platform excluding 45 million 3DS owners won't.
BTW, I hate that name I think it doesn't do enough to set itself apart, should be Xenoblade 2, or just Xeno something not blade. Not the very same name.. X. X could be the HD version we won't have (and this naming stance one of the reasons they might have not have gone that route).
Putting this game on the stores as the sole n3DS game will only create confusion and it should use a pretty big cart, this way they could avoid it and just include an 8 GB mini-SD card or something... and keep the dual dub.
That way everyone buying a n3DS will have the game and it might raise awareness of Xenoblade Chronicles X in a way limiting a title to a "new" platform excluding 45 million 3DS owners won't.
BTW, I hate that name I think it doesn't do enough to set itself apart, should be Xenoblade 2, or just Xeno something not blade. Not the very same name.. X. X could be the HD version we won't have (and this naming stance one of the reasons they might have not have gone that route).
I think some people are forgetting what the "3D" in "3DS" stands for. I believe the added depth and dimension, especially on a 1:1 display (not upscaled via a shitty YouTube video on our 1080p monitors) will make for a pretty incredible experience. I haven't seen a game yet that doesn't look a hell of a lot better on the 3DS than it does in any online video.
And also remember that not everyone has already played the original. I don't own any of the Nintendo consoles, so this is my (and others) chance to finally play this particular gem.
And also remember that not everyone has already played the original. I don't own any of the Nintendo consoles, so this is my (and others) chance to finally play this particular gem.
lostinblue
Banned
^ Wii's are cheap now, the game is not (but still not 100 bucks expensive), grabbing both though, will have a lower entry price than a n3DS not to mention a n3DS and this game, if they don't actually offer it with it.
That's my recommendation. Having played the Wii version who knows if I'll grab this one, but I don't believe for a second it'll be better in any way, nah.
That's my recommendation. Having played the Wii version who knows if I'll grab this one, but I don't believe for a second it'll be better in any way, nah.
Pro from Dover
Member
I will clearly never be able to like Xenoblade better than anyone.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
Pretty much how every Monster Hunter 3DS thread is, screens are posted that make the game look horrible but when your actually playing it on the 3DS it doesnt look bad at all.
There's still memory bandwith to consider. Not sure exactly how it compares to Wii but in general that's an area where mobile tech is far behind.
Also the game is rendering in 240p. A lot of the time it would just be a massive waste to have the same texture sizes. It'd use a lower mip level 90% of the time while the largest one is just sitting around eating up memory and storage space. But obviously when there's zoomed in shot of a blurry texture you notice the difference quite painfully. Hopefully it can be addressed in the areas that need it most before release.
I agree, I'm looking forward to running around these huge environments in 3D, and 3DS games always look much better on an actual 3DS screen. Honestly I don't think the resolution drop is going to hurt Xenoblade much. It's a good looking game but let's not pretend the Wii version was crystal clear.
Some people value their games being portable.
lostinblue
Banned
Wii U currently makes games "home-portable". Only thing missing is actually being able to use the Wii U controller buttons instead of pulling a wiimote+classic controller.
End result is still similar, you can play it on your bed and make believe it's on a portable without sacrificing the graphics, with most people having shit TV's it'll even look better and play with less lag.
I wouldn't use a Vita much outside home 'cause it's massive, same for a DSi XL or 3DS XL, Wii U is in the same boat for me (I'm traveling in less than 36 hours, and I'll take the PSP Go or the 3DS, haven't decided yet), not the huge consoles). Oh, but I do enjoy these huge ass screen portables at home, more than my 3DS non-XL. My adore my DSi XL it's just a pity that I bought a 3DS before the XL revision was unleashed.
What I'm saying is... Xenoblade almost-portable? I'll have that from the moment I buy a Wii U. (I don't own one yet)
This port doesn't make a whole lot of sense any angle you look at it.
This.
Screw all this pixel-picking.
I'll gladly pick up this game again just to play it in 3D.
And I'll buy it again if they release an HD version on Wii U!
lostinblue
Banned
They should at least reprint it.
Put it in the Wii classic line if they will, but do reprint it.
And the damn console should detect the games that use classic controller and allow to use the controller buttons for that scheme.
Lazy Nintendo, it's like the time classic controllers couldn't be used for Gamecube on the Wii. Hackers did it, hell, hackers did it with them dualshock 3's.
Still looks like ass.
I can't play my Wii U in my bed since the range is terrible on the gamepad.
I've played a bit of it on my Wii, but I'm more likely to tolerate all of the sidequests when I can stop and continue whenever I want, wherever I want. Loss of graphical fidelity doesn't mean much since I wouldn't appreciate an HD version at all. I wouldn't play an HD version (didn't play the regular version more than 10 hours), but if the framerate is solid on this, I'll play it a lot. So, yeah, makes sense to me. I'm far more interested in a portable re-release than an HD one for an rpg.
Handhelds + rpgs = bliss.