-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
So whats going to happen when nintendo Loses?
- Thread starter PseudoKirby
- Start date
- Status
jeremy1456 said:
it also had a lot to do with the "surprise launch" that sega did of the system (almost five months before it was intended to release), it had a very terrible launch. additionally, sega of america and sega of japan had fundamental differences as to which games should be released in the north american market, therefore, a lot of hugely reputable titles simply never crossed the pond.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Coolio McAwesome said:
The phrase "Nintendo doesn't make games anymore" translates roughly to:
"Nintendo doesn't make HD games that cater to my every last whim despite the fact that I didn't buy your games that tried to cater to me in the previous two generations anyway," around these parts. It's sad, it's like people are wholly embarrassed about playing a game that has any color or doesn't have blood and violence or something.
Musashi Wins! said:
One lost sale, I'm sure Iwata cries himself to sleep over it.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Quite simply, they used the razor/razorblade model on their console sales, always taking a loss on the hardware. That's a really risky strategy, and if you end up in last place, it's a heavy, heavy financial burden to bear. Coupled with SEGA's lack of access to emergency cash (like Nintendo, Microsoft, and presumably Sony have access to), it was enough to kill them.donny2112 said:
In short, don't have a business model that guarantees hefty losses on hardware for the gamble of profits on software. Make money on both. This strategy is how Nintendo always comes out smelling like a rose.
donny2112 said:
I think the situation that drove Sega into the ground was that they continuously burned their core audience again and again in short succession with lackluster followups to the Genesis. The Sega CD, the 32X, and the Saturn all to varying extents burned Sega fans, and at the same time Sega had very, very strong competition.
There have actually been a lot of people in the media and on this forum that have pointed out that Nintendo has been burning their traditional audience as well in the form of not providing enough traditional "hardcore" games or by releasing weak copy cat sequels (animal crossing wii, pikmin 2 wii). Nintendo fans though I feel are quite loyal and Nintendo could easily turn the situation around in an E3 since it's mostly an issue of what sort of software is released, and so I don't think the situation is comparable with Sega's continuous quick abandonment of its various hardware platforms.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Tiktaalik said:
Wat? So on of the best Mario games ever made, a competent Zelda game, a Metroid title, an incredible Super Smash Bros. game, and an online Mario Kart didn't happen yet?
I swear the vast majority of gaming press has the memory of a dried trout.
Bonus points to those who can guess the reference
EDIT: To answer the OPs question. Nintendo doesn't "lose", they get even!
I miss Sega hardware...
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Yes, but you have to admit, the cinematography was exceptional.AniHawk said:
They're not going to have any massive problems as long as Iwata is CEO. Dude gets it.
They might lose market share, but they're in a great niche right now (which happens to be
the majority of the games market), and it's hard to see who would be a threat to that.
Sony and Microsoft just don't have the internal software talent on that front. I guess SCE London has had some limited success with the EyeToy and Singstar (in Europe, anyway), but I never got the sense that those were moving consoles as killer apps.
They might lose market share, but they're in a great niche right now (which happens to be
the majority of the games market), and it's hard to see who would be a threat to that.
Sony and Microsoft just don't have the internal software talent on that front. I guess SCE London has had some limited success with the EyeToy and Singstar (in Europe, anyway), but I never got the sense that those were moving consoles as killer apps.
RurouniZel said:
I'm not arguing for this point I'm just stating that there has been criticism. I don't think that claim is controversial. If you browse around GAF for any level of time you see tons of criticism on this issue. Folks on the 1up Yours podcast, which were major members of the gaming media, criticized Nintendo on this issue constantly.
As I said in my post before I don't think this issue will hurt Nintendo in the long term in any way like Sega was hurt by their own self induced wounds. It's not comparable.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Tiktaalik said:
But here's my problem with that logic. They're acting as if Nintendo is the only company that can or is making games for the system!
How many games has Sony published for the PS3? How about Microsoft for the 360? I don't have an exact list, but it's not much more than Nintendo; heck maybe it's less?
Nintendo's problem isn't 1st party support, it's crappy 3rd party support (which is admittedly improving. Slowly). When people talk about how many games are coming out for the PS3/360/PC, the VAST majority of these games are made by 3rd parties, not by Microsoft or Sony themselves. But only Nintendo is criticized for "not putting out enough games". Therefore it's a double standard.
ThaiGrocer
Member
They can always go back to the love hotel business.
just because you aren't winning the top crown, you don't fold...
its debatable how much of a threat Sony or Microsoft could be to Nintendo, Microsoft dosent have the best record when it comes to an adaptation of another product (as seen in their attempt to release casual software for 360), sony has been somewhat more successful but not completely (singstar).
even if nintendo falls to 2nd or 3rd they've found an expanded market (beyond what ps2 created) that will buy the name (along with nintendo fans/avid gamers who will buy a nintendo system for mario/zelda/etc)
at this point, if Microsoft makes a grab at Nintendo next gen i think Sony might do good to make another system that appeals to hardcore/avid gamers alone (with cost constraints and focus on having a platform that generates profit). considering the continued love in the development community and gaming sphere for the PlayStation name, it seems like a solid move financially instead of fighting over different markets with Nintendo and Microsoft.
the "hardcore" market is pretty fickle but still makes up a large amount of consumers, i don't know if that's a situation Microsoft would like to find themselves in as they could alienate some by pursuing casuals and in turn give an opportunity to Sony to get some footing again considering how taken aback the company seems to have been about ps3.
it'll be interesting to see what MS and Sony do next go around. there's also the portable space, which will be even more important next gen if you take into account the push towards portables become the main game console for many people. overall nintendo is in a pretty good place...
its debatable how much of a threat Sony or Microsoft could be to Nintendo, Microsoft dosent have the best record when it comes to an adaptation of another product (as seen in their attempt to release casual software for 360), sony has been somewhat more successful but not completely (singstar).
even if nintendo falls to 2nd or 3rd they've found an expanded market (beyond what ps2 created) that will buy the name (along with nintendo fans/avid gamers who will buy a nintendo system for mario/zelda/etc)
at this point, if Microsoft makes a grab at Nintendo next gen i think Sony might do good to make another system that appeals to hardcore/avid gamers alone (with cost constraints and focus on having a platform that generates profit). considering the continued love in the development community and gaming sphere for the PlayStation name, it seems like a solid move financially instead of fighting over different markets with Nintendo and Microsoft.
the "hardcore" market is pretty fickle but still makes up a large amount of consumers, i don't know if that's a situation Microsoft would like to find themselves in as they could alienate some by pursuing casuals and in turn give an opportunity to Sony to get some footing again considering how taken aback the company seems to have been about ps3.
it'll be interesting to see what MS and Sony do next go around. there's also the portable space, which will be even more important next gen if you take into account the push towards portables become the main game console for many people. overall nintendo is in a pretty good place...
Lots of undue hate of Nintendo, past and present in this thread. As if they deserve/care about such kinds of opinion. Nice to see the same old tirades of 'abandoning the hardcore' are out in full force too.
Then there is the issue of whether the concept of 'winning' even matters. As far as I care, the only thing that matters is whether a given console has enough good games and whether it sells enough units to encourage more good (and niche) games down the line. As far as manufacturers care, it is all about marketshare and profit in various balances.
At the end of the day, as a gamer, regardless of what main system I buy I can be pretty damn confident that there will be some great titles to play, whether they are online, high-def, waggle enabled or retro.
If/when Ninendo lose, that isn't my concern. Based on their historical conribution to the medium though, anyone who would be happy with them 'losing' (significantly) needs to hand in their gamer card and assess whether they enjoy the hobby more than barracking for corporations.
Then there is the issue of whether the concept of 'winning' even matters. As far as I care, the only thing that matters is whether a given console has enough good games and whether it sells enough units to encourage more good (and niche) games down the line. As far as manufacturers care, it is all about marketshare and profit in various balances.
At the end of the day, as a gamer, regardless of what main system I buy I can be pretty damn confident that there will be some great titles to play, whether they are online, high-def, waggle enabled or retro.
If/when Ninendo lose, that isn't my concern. Based on their historical conribution to the medium though, anyone who would be happy with them 'losing' (significantly) needs to hand in their gamer card and assess whether they enjoy the hobby more than barracking for corporations.
Nintendo's bread and butter is gaming...as long as they continue to follow their own path...and do things their way I don't see how Nintendo can "lose"...
Their still the only hardware maker that relies soley on gaming to survive. Sony and MS have yet to fully realise the economics of gaming in order to turn a steady profit even in slow periods/draughts during a year. Even with the GCN Nintendo was making a profit...their definately survivors and have shown they can turn a profit even with poor selling products.
Their still the only hardware maker that relies soley on gaming to survive. Sony and MS have yet to fully realise the economics of gaming in order to turn a steady profit even in slow periods/draughts during a year. Even with the GCN Nintendo was making a profit...their definately survivors and have shown they can turn a profit even with poor selling products.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
I need to step away from the computer before I give in to the desire to post a thread - "So whats going to happen when sony Folds?"
Gully State
Member
I wonder how far Nintendo can take the wiifit/wiisports franchise. People forget that during the N64/Gamecube years, Nintendo still dominated the portable market and had the cash cow known as pokemon. Will wiifit/wiisports achieve that kind of success? It's hard to say.
RandomVince said:
Great post. I agree completely and you're really right on questioning whether "winning" really does matter. Nintendo just barely squeaked out a "win" in the 16 bit wars, "lost" the 32 bit war and also "lost" the PS2/Xbox/GC generation and yet they put out fantastic titles during that time and also made a profit. Microsoft "lost" the PS2/Xbox/GC generation as well but I'm still pretty sure it was worth it to them to build on their success for the 360 and I got to play tons of great games on my Xbox so I had no issue with them "losing."
With this generation in mind Nintendo has certainly won, but Sony, while they've lost their lead marketshare crown has had continued success of both the PS2 and PSP and has maintained some market share with the PS3 and they will certainly be around for the next go. Microsoft has "lost" as well, and yet they've succeed in their goal to beat Sony and improve their marketshare and brand awareness. They've even increased their brand in Japan.
By around 2011 or so everything will be reset and we'll get to see who wins or loses that round, and yet, as the past has shown, "winning" and "losing" often means little (unless you're Sega).
Metal Gear?!
Member
Nintendo's won this round handily. There is simply no way that anyone is catching up to them.
What we have seen in the past is that no one stays on top for more than 2 generations. With success comes indolence, arrogance, myopia. This time it happened to Sony.
The last time Nintendo won by redefining the market was the NES/Famicom. They continued their dominance with the SNES, if barely. They lost with the N64.
If the Wii follows history then Nintendo will continue to dominate with a sustaining, not revolutionary, product, be it "Wii2" or "WiiHD" or whatnot. But after that it is anyone's game.
However, motion controls are here to stay. The game has changed as completely as it did with the introduction of 3D.
What we have seen in the past is that no one stays on top for more than 2 generations. With success comes indolence, arrogance, myopia. This time it happened to Sony.
The last time Nintendo won by redefining the market was the NES/Famicom. They continued their dominance with the SNES, if barely. They lost with the N64.
If the Wii follows history then Nintendo will continue to dominate with a sustaining, not revolutionary, product, be it "Wii2" or "WiiHD" or whatnot. But after that it is anyone's game.
However, motion controls are here to stay. The game has changed as completely as it did with the introduction of 3D.
..pakbeka..
Member
whoa2006 said:
Tiktaalik said:
Thank you, and I agree with your sentiments too. The examples you list are just further evidence that victory for one company usually isnt at the expense of all others. MS have taken big losses, but they can afford to do so to buy their way into the market. Sony have taken big hits as well, and yet they still have 3 successful platforms with 30, 50 and 100 million odd users, give or take. To me that just screams loud and clear about how the medium as a pasttime is growing and growing.
The period we are in now is probably the most significant growth time since the mid-90s PS1 boom with new gamers coming in. And they are coming in not just because of Wii, but because of DS and WoW and flash games/facebook games, iphone, guitar/rockband games etc etc. Go back 10 years and diversity in gaming was limited to fighting games, shooting games, racing games and rpgs.
Anything that popularises the medium (especially in a positive way, like wii has done) is a good thing. The fact that 8 major platforms are viable in todays market (consoles, pc, handhelds, iphone, web) just goes to show that nobody really 'loses' anymore.
except sega
They will continue to be in 2nd or 3rd place from 5-20 years, while still maintaining a healthy profit the whole time, and will go back to number 1.
To be honest, I am still holding out for a set of traditional Nintendo playing cards to come out on Club Nintendo. No Mario pictures or other game characters, just the Nintendo logo and some nice back art, maybe even a reproduction of what they used to make.
Vilix said:
To be honest, I am still holding out for a set of traditional Nintendo playing cards to come out on Club Nintendo. No Mario pictures or other game characters, just the Nintendo logo and some nice back art, maybe even a reproduction of what they used to make.
BishopLamont
Banned
You need to up your game, you sound like a broken old record now.drohne said:
60_gig_PS3
Banned
if Nintendo loses it will be to Apple since they're both competing for the casual gamer markt and Apple is doing a better job at it.
Nintendo seems like they're playing defense now with the DSi
Nintendo seems like they're playing defense now with the DSi
Coolio McAwesome said:
Dude you didn't notice? Those games don't interest people like the OP so they are ommited from all and any discussion about the Wii and how Nintendo makes games. Not like Nintendo hasn't been more aggressive with making deals with 3rd parties or expanding their 1st party development studios with either full on creation (Sora) or acquisition (Monolith)
How many quarters in a row has Nintendo been in the green now?
Gully State said:
They aren't now? Hell they aren't only dominating portable but home. Also when you have two consoles gunning to sell 150 million units in the coming years I think they will be just fine.
\/\/ b...bb..b.bbut its destroying gaming as we know it. Its like a cancer and the Wiis success (and growing library of excellent titles) will infect all other systems until there is nothing left but Wiiplay4.
I still don't understand why people hate Nintendo so much. If you don't like the Wii, don't play the games and don't buy the console. Stick with your 360, PS3 or PC and call it a day. There are plenty of good games on the system. Not your cup of tea? That's fine. I'm just tired of all the hatred and people running around screaming that Nintendo is killing the industry. Grow up.
civilstrife
Member
This thread is beyond pathetic. What the fuck do you think is going to happen? Iwata will melt into water and ps360 owners will gather in the trees and celebrate Return of the Jedi-style.
SCReuter
Member
Coolio McAwesome said:
Let me try to help:
1. Nintendo's hardcore games don't count because they're not new IPs.
2. Nintendo's new IPs don't count because they're not hardcore games.
3. When Nintendo eventually releases a new hardcore IP, it won't count because the goalpost will have been moved again.
Understand?
AceBandage
Banned
SCReuter said:
That sums up the internet and most gamers pretty well, actually.
Lose what? Profit? First place? Gigantic pools full of money?
Nintendo has always operated under the assumption that they could be in last place. Constantly turning profits.
Hell, when retail wanted Nintendo's head for the supply issue, Nintendo refused to spend the money on factories for fear of the "bubble bursting."
Thats frugal.
Pair that with the ginormous amounts of profit they have socked away means that they have a rosy future--whether in first or third place.
Nintendo has always operated under the assumption that they could be in last place. Constantly turning profits.
Hell, when retail wanted Nintendo's head for the supply issue, Nintendo refused to spend the money on factories for fear of the "bubble bursting."
Thats frugal.
Pair that with the ginormous amounts of profit they have socked away means that they have a rosy future--whether in first or third place.
Gully State
Member
bdouble said:
Don't get your panties in a bunch, I meant in the long term. Pokemon and the gameboy carried Nintendo through its lean years. Can Wii Fit /Wii sports carry Nintendo through another lean era? I'm not arguing one way nor the other. I'm just amazed that as a company Nintendo still made a lot of money even when the public largely perceived them as a company going out of business.
I agree that it isn't Nintendo's fault that the wii has such a horrible library filled with shovelware. It's the 3rd parties. Nintendo has put out more quality within such a short span of time than any other gen. If there's any company that's been a consistent player in the videogame industry, it's Nintendo.
Gully State said:
Why are you amazed? The public perception of a company doesn't really affect their financial statements much. Especially when its probably most propagated by a few outspoken anti Nintendo fanboys which were obviously mistaken because as we know Nintendo was doing just fine during the 64-GC days.
Why does Wiifit/Wiisports have to carry them? Really they were never in a lean era. Yeah they didn't have the market share but they still made a profit. You say Pokemon has had them till this point but doesn't that make you think they will create something after Wii___ games?
Zek said:
You're actually going to argue that the "Hardcore Gamer" (btw, this term is beyond stupid and is a form of narcissism (applying a name to a so called group to make oneself feel better) isn't being catered to this gen. Hold on a second, I need to :lol
Last time I checked, both Sony and MS were catering to the "Hardcore Gamer" and were doing a good job. "Hardcore Gamers" have gotten way more great games then Nintendo has released.
If you actually believe Nintendo is threatening the "status quo", I've got a bridge to sell you in New York.
That line of thinking is pure BS. Its pure narcissism. "Nintendo is threatening the status quo of gaming because they aren't making the game I want to play. The group of people Nintendo is marketing to can't be part of my little club (playing games). They're abandoning me and focusing on that other group"
That's how the so-called "Hardcore Gamer" sounds in regards to Nintendo this gen. Its the very definition of the Me, Me, Me, I, I, I generation. A group of people who want everything for themselves and don't want to share (they want the video game industry to themselves and when someone shakes it up, they totally go on the defensive).
Eteric Rice
Member
Whats funny is that even when a third party does release a game that targets the seasoned gamer, they bitch about how it isn't on the PS3 or 360.
I think that even if Nintendo released an HD console with a bunch of new hardcore IPs, home theator capabilities, and the ability to give it's owner a blow job, they'd still bitch about it.
I think that even if Nintendo released an HD console with a bunch of new hardcore IPs, home theator capabilities, and the ability to give it's owner a blow job, they'd still bitch about it.
titiklabingapat
Member
This reminds me of the bike helmet debate in the bicycling crowd. The pro-helmet lobby always asks what would happen to you if you get into a collision. The other side simply asks, "why not prevent collisions from happening in the first place?".
PseudoKirby
Banned
titiklabingapat said:
I dont get the comparison
I always think of it as the CAR industry
with nintendo being HONDA, for the most part any serious car enthusiast/racer thinks of Honda as a joke, with Nissan, Toyota (not so much in the 2000's), Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Subaru being much better
either way honda is so much up their own ass in how they are raking in people with the Economy Car Market and their Accords and Civics....
whats wrong with GAF these days
first that pete wanat thread and now this..
the nintendo hate seems to have increased again
is it because of the recent release of great wii and ds titles (madworld, HOTDOK, GTA Chinatown and so on)
is it because of the shocking 750k of hardware sales in february
i cannot say
whoever in the game industry thinks that nintendo is a joke is either delusional (aka sony) or just a joke himself (aka that maxis guy and pete wanat)
first that pete wanat thread and now this..
the nintendo hate seems to have increased again
is it because of the recent release of great wii and ds titles (madworld, HOTDOK, GTA Chinatown and so on)
is it because of the shocking 750k of hardware sales in february
i cannot say
PseudoKirby said:
whoever in the game industry thinks that nintendo is a joke is either delusional (aka sony) or just a joke himself (aka that maxis guy and pete wanat)
See the problem Nintendo will have is going to be next generation. The casual gamers bought Wii for the easy/wii mote party games. The problem with that is
A. Next gen Wii Mote won't be anything new and exciting
B. Probably all systems will have motion control in some way
C. Casual gamers don't have a tendency to run out and upgrade to the newest system
What really sucks for pure Nintendo fans is Nintendo's only shot at repeating next gen will be coming out with the cheapest system so the casual Aunt Judy type Wii fans go out and buy the next Wii with motion control instead of the Xbox and PS with motion controls. Though PS and Xbox will probably have motion control I doubt it will be forced. So that will appeal to more hardcore gamers for the other systems. Plus good graphics and all which wii will probably be lacking since they want to come screaming out the gates on the old man cheap.
A. Next gen Wii Mote won't be anything new and exciting
B. Probably all systems will have motion control in some way
C. Casual gamers don't have a tendency to run out and upgrade to the newest system
What really sucks for pure Nintendo fans is Nintendo's only shot at repeating next gen will be coming out with the cheapest system so the casual Aunt Judy type Wii fans go out and buy the next Wii with motion control instead of the Xbox and PS with motion controls. Though PS and Xbox will probably have motion control I doubt it will be forced. So that will appeal to more hardcore gamers for the other systems. Plus good graphics and all which wii will probably be lacking since they want to come screaming out the gates on the old man cheap.
- Status