I don't understand this. I still don't know what the white experience is.
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"Are you white?"
- Thread starter freeofgreed
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I don't understand this. I still don't know what the white experience is.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
I'm not trying to be provocative here, but in the OP, you said:
If the purpose of "your experience may not be relevant" (which you do say) is not to say, "Shut up," then what is it? Is it to say, "You're white and so should only join this conversation if, after quiet reflection, you determine that you exceed the average white person's familiarity with this topic"? I'm not really following the distinction you're trying to draw here.
EDIT: Oh, right, I had a joke about this:
It's meth.
Once again, I state, if this was only happening in these situations, do you think that a lot of people would complain about it. It unfortunately does happen quite a lot.
Dynamite Shikoku
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freeofgreed
Member
Lol that was a pretty bad example to use my friend. The post you linked breads ignorance and is a prime example of where someone would ask if you're white. Saying black people only see racism because they want to and that the police threads recently have been circle jerks comes off as extremely ignorant on your part.
This is the exact kind of response that prompts questions like, "Are you white?"
You have POC, in this very thread, telling you what it means when they ask someone "are you white?" in a discussion. Literally spelling out that it isn't often used as a dismissal of the opinions of white people. You even have white posters sympathizing. And instead of taking a quick breath to take that in and process what other people are saying, you're basically sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "NO! THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING."
It's the doubling down on an ignorant perspective that usually prompts that kind of response.
The Faceless Master
Member
of course people would complain. especially if they actually are white.
the post(s) that garnered the "are you white?" response are what makes someone not credible.
freeofgreed
Member
Well you're either being purposfully dense or your just ignorant. Either way I'm done with you.
Saying your experience may not be relevant is not the same as telling you to shut up. It's basically saying look at your own post and try to see what about it may have made someone want to ask if your white.
i specially said sorry for my bad wording and what i stated there was explicitly about the video. (made that clear in another post later, but even after clearing it i was till the racist)
counterquestion. did you see the video?
was your first tought racism or incompetent cops?
freeofgreed
Member
So then maybe it happens in instances to dismiss a specific person for absolutely no reason. Which is what people are complaining about. Especially because if it is used in a less then casual way, it can imply a whole set of things that are entirely wrong and silly. And maybe people in here are saying that it shouldnt be used in those instances, and even then, I find the idea of "Are you white" to be the same as "you serious, bro?" to be also pretty awful.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
Well, how about instead of a riddle that appears to be racist on its face and is invariably misinterpreted, you simply explain to the potentially white person why what he or she is saying is incorrect? It's better to focus on the topic at hand than on the race of the participants. The latter takes on the form of a personal attack, whatever your actual intention, and so it's no surprise that it will be taken as such.
The Faceless Master
Member
or maybe some people are just racist, incompetent and narcissistic enough to believe that they are not wrong.
Lol I did see the video. I even posted in the thread you link
y, checked your post, the first half made me hopefull, than you also came to the conclusion it had racism involved.
why?
freeofgreed
Member
Because it's not my job to. I try to explain to people how their incorrect in threads like these all the time, but honestly it's overwhelming. You have so many people who don't read the threads, or the OP and post and then go on the make some dumb uninformed post. Why should I waste my time educating someone who can't even take a modicum of effort to even do a bit of research on their own? That's why some people use Are you white" thing because it's suppose to make that person self reflect.
User 73706
Banned
That only works if the potentially white person is willing to actually discuss whatever topic's at hand from a subjective point of view with a capacity to understand what's going on - and those people aren't the ones getting the "are you white?" question thrown at them.
But why? I want to understand your perspective. You think it is a good question to ask someone whether or not they are "white" so you know if they have the white experience. I'm trying to figure out what kind of universial white experience you are talking about and how it relates to all "non-white universial experiences", I guess, as a consequence. There is no need to refuse a discussion.
The Faceless Master
Member
yep, that post there in that thread... that's the kind of thing where i could see someone asking you "are you white?" because those circumstances... seriously... i mean... wow...if you can't comprehend why some people would see racism first in that video....
freeofgreed
Member
Because statistically blacks are far more likely to be killed/incarcerate than whites. Is every black person's encounter with police racially motivated? No, but when you have so much evidence (both anecdotal and empirical) showing that a good chunk of them are, it's very easy to go to that conclusion.
so you're saying that all of these people in this thread are all those things when they complain about the use of those things.
Or maybe it's because the idea behind it is incredibly silly and awful and shouldnt be used at all
freeofgreed
Member
Because myself and several other posters have already explained it to you. But you keep going "why" "why" "why" which makes me think your trolling and thus not worthy of my attention. If you truly don't understand than how about you tell me what about my explanation doesn't make sense instead of going "why" "why" "why" like a damn child?
i can comprehend it. i understand it (and i don't at the same time). than i look at the video again and again and again to check what really happened before i engage in a circlejerk about racism.
again, what was the racism in the video?
The Faceless Master
Member
why not? why does someone have to continue to engage with another person that has already demonstrated either willful bias or gross ignorance? you could say "it goes both ways" but then again, only one side seems to be miffed that the dialog has ended.
do you still beat your wife?
you like discrediting people eh?
this shit is exactly the same as are you white.
you are discrediting another poster so his opinion becomes one without any importance.
I'm sorry perhaps I don't get the purpose of this thread then. I guess OP just wanted to vent in a thread about lol "white people".
When I ask him about the white experience he gives me vague answers or others jump in with weird TV allegories which make no sense whatsoever.
I specifically asked him a question to elaborate on his reasoning and OP refused, ok, that's fine.
To me it seems this thread would be like the equivalence of explaining what the purpose of "check your privilege" is and supposedly makes people "self reflect".
A few people have mentioned here that this might not be desired effect but rather invoke confusion or a defensive reaction in the person you asked this question.
I'd like to know how this is supposed to create a good discussion environment. Since I'm not getting the answers from OP I must assume OP either didn't think this through or really doesn't care.
freeofgreed
Member
Nope it's because I knew you were trying to make a weak ass arguement and chose not to indulge. Also if you think this is an "lol white people" thread than that just shows how ignorate you are and how easily mad you can get when your privilage is questioned.
There's a shit ton of information in this thread, you just want to be salty. Also you're just ignorant if you think there is no similarity in the experience that white people have in this country.
calling people mad is not an argument
isnt this a productive discussion we're having here!
freeofgreed
Member
Not an argument a statement.
it's irrelevant
Reallink
Member
Most people will laugh this off, but I would say anyone who played FFXI for any amount of time has a decent understanding of racism, regardless of skin color. It was common place to run into signs reading "JP Only", "No Westerner", "No English" and yes, even "No White". It was not at all surprising to be booted from parties for being a "gaijin", and race targeted griefing (holding rare spawns, dominating spawns, or killing people with aggro links) was very common in end game content. Some will say virtual racism doesn't count or that it doesn't matter what people say/do in a "game", but I'm not too proud to admit that game hurt some feelings.
freeofgreed
Member
It is relevant and I can say whatever I want, thank you.
EDIT: Lol this thread has gotten beyond silly at this point. I am going to bed.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
I can understand exasperation--as a politically right-of-center poster on the notoriously left-of-center NeoGAF, I've had more than my fair share of repetitive arguments--but I don't think that can justify using rhetoric that, whatever the intent behind it, seems to be directed at shutting the target up. The approach I've developed to dealing with repetitive arguments is to link to my older posts in which I had previously addressed the topic. That way, I can advance the discussion to at least the point I had in the past, but without spending much time doing so. (Some people think I must keep a master list of old posts at the ready in such instances, but it's really just Google and "site:neogaf.com [search terms].") This approach seems much better to me than one that (1) seems to be an attempt to disqualify a participant from the discussion, (2) seems to be directed at the participant rather than at what the participant said, and (3) is likely to heighten tensions in a probably-already-tense discussion.
I don't know how or when the question is used, since I rarely participate in discussions on race online, but how do you know that the people who get that question thrown at them are not "willing to actually discuss whatever topic's at hand from a subjective point of view with a capacity to understand what's going on"? Your formulation seems like a ready-made excuse to dismiss a participant in a discussion for simply disagreeing with you. In other words, you judge a person who accepts what you have to say as being so willing and capable, and a person who does not accept what you have to say as not being so.
It's cool man, Im white as can be
Josh with a J
Member
Yes I am
I am part Colombian, but pretty much white, I doubt anyone sees the 25% Colombian in me. I have gotten away with minor traffic violations in a shitty car, guaranteed, because I was a white looking dude driving the car. I've had employers, friends, and strangers respond to me a certain way because I was construed as white.
I recognize the difference, it's easier to get along as a straight, essentially white male. I am just trying to empathize with the minority community that half of my lineage comes from, and also the Black minority that has gone through so much in America.
All while benefiting from being just another white dude.
I recognize the difference, it's easier to get along as a straight, essentially white male. I am just trying to empathize with the minority community that half of my lineage comes from, and also the Black minority that has gone through so much in America.
All while benefiting from being just another white dude.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
To get on topic, yeah, asking someone online if they are white may not be the best method. I personally try to avoid it and aim at the rhetoric alone because as a guy who's hung out with affluent black people, I've seen levels of unawareness that makes Don Lemon look like Bayard Rustin. Plus it allows for more conversation.
But as others have said, it's used for a reason: when there's a level of brazenly apathetic unawareness, victim blaming, struggle appropriating BS that it just doesn't feel worth the time to provide a nuanced argument.
It's impossible to have an advanced discussion on social issues when one doesn't even know the basics, but is all too willing to talk over everyone about what they "know".
But as others have said, it's used for a reason: when there's a level of brazenly apathetic unawareness, victim blaming, struggle appropriating BS that it just doesn't feel worth the time to provide a nuanced argument.
It's impossible to have an advanced discussion on social issues when one doesn't even know the basics, but is all too willing to talk over everyone about what they "know".
I'm a straight white male and i post in threads about racial issues somewhat frequently. I've never once felt that my views or opinions were dismissed on the basis of race or anything by anybody here, and i actually think this is one of the most open and informative places on the internet for these topics. I know I've learned a lot reading and participating in those threads. I've never even been asked what my race is in discussions on this forum, tbh, but if someone did ask i wouldn't have a problem with it.
White people don't have to directly deal with racial issues or think about it all the time, so a lot of us are pretty naive and ignorant about a lot of it. I like to think i have a pretty good handle on racial issues in America compared to my peers, but I've never personally experienced it so my understanding will never be complete compared to a lot of people who live through it every day. If i ever made a post that had something ignorant or suspect in it that i didn't realize, and someone replied "are you white?" I'd probably say "yeah why?" As long as they then responded letting me know what it was I said that they thought was wrong based on their experience of not being white, i don't see anything to get upset over.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone in race issue threads just flat out dismissing peoples' opinions because they're white. I have frequently seen people dismissed who are continuously saying dumb shit (even after being told that what they're saying is dumb and given an explanation as to why) and then claim that they're being dismissed because they're straight white males. Even though half the people dismissing their dumb comments are probably also straight white males lol.
White people don't have to directly deal with racial issues or think about it all the time, so a lot of us are pretty naive and ignorant about a lot of it. I like to think i have a pretty good handle on racial issues in America compared to my peers, but I've never personally experienced it so my understanding will never be complete compared to a lot of people who live through it every day. If i ever made a post that had something ignorant or suspect in it that i didn't realize, and someone replied "are you white?" I'd probably say "yeah why?" As long as they then responded letting me know what it was I said that they thought was wrong based on their experience of not being white, i don't see anything to get upset over.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone in race issue threads just flat out dismissing peoples' opinions because they're white. I have frequently seen people dismissed who are continuously saying dumb shit (even after being told that what they're saying is dumb and given an explanation as to why) and then claim that they're being dismissed because they're straight white males. Even though half the people dismissing their dumb comments are probably also straight white males lol.
Littlefang
Member
"I'm sorry you feel that way, but you really shouldn't be offended."
I think the issue with anything offensive is that anybody can judge when something is extremely offensive (e.g. not letting someone into your store because of their race) or when someone is being extremely sensitive (e.g. being angry that a form required you to fill in your ethnicity). But the real issue comes with all that mushy gray stuff in between that has the potential to be offensive and I think we should really leave that up to the discretion of the people that an offensive thing is being targeted towards to decide if it is actually offensive or not.
I think the issue with anything offensive is that anybody can judge when something is extremely offensive (e.g. not letting someone into your store because of their race) or when someone is being extremely sensitive (e.g. being angry that a form required you to fill in your ethnicity). But the real issue comes with all that mushy gray stuff in between that has the potential to be offensive and I think we should really leave that up to the discretion of the people that an offensive thing is being targeted towards to decide if it is actually offensive or not.
I can see why Starbucks was unable to cope.
I think one of the bigger issues is the matter of individuals being disagreeable, instead of disagreeing. There can be a tendency where individuals are more concerned with who is stating what then what is actually being said. That is not to say the individual's experience, especially anecdotal, can not be up for discussion but to be dismissive of an individual because of any immutable characteristic is not grounds for a healthy discussion.
Black Republican
Member
they assume im white till i show up at them interview though, heh
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
You're definitely not Jewish.
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