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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).

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It's why I still haven't done Mission 45. I'll probably watch it on Youtube at some point.

Because: feel the phantom pain

I'm just glad I was able to max out her bond level. Achievements are priority after all.

something something Final Fantasy VII

Medic Boss should have drop kicked Eli and Huey off the base.


At that point it's too late. You can sorta prevent it by wearing a butterfly emblem which freezes the mission from actually popping up, I beat the game but still have her until I take the emblem off but I also can't get 100% since I'm missing a side op and a mission.

Considering the highlight of this game is the stealth sandbox, permanently removing a large pool of options in Quiet FOREVER from the player is never something I will be okay with, and the method of keeping her is super obtuse(and even can happen, like, RIGHT after you beat the extreme fight and develop the sniper wolf and xof costumes).

God fucking dammit.

GAF, I'm already a punished phantom demon parasite. Give her back ;_;

Seriously, fuck you Kojima, at least patch it so she can be deployed in missions/free-roam even if she doesn't appear in Motherbase or the ACC anymore.

So pissed right now.
 
Considering the highlight of this game is the stealth sandbox, permanently removing a large pool of options in Quiet FOREVER from the player is never something I will be okay with, and the method of keeping her is super obtuse(and even can happen, like, RIGHT after you beat the extreme fight and develop the sniper wolf and xof costumes).

Yeah, I still don't get that. Why bother having additional costumes to unlock if you end up losing her in an obscure (without planning/guide-reading) way? And those are two of the best uniforms in the game!

No one in DD really is oogling her, all that's on their mind is that they absolutely hate and think of her as a freak.

Spoken like someone who hasn't watched the shower scene.

"Take a look at that."

"Man, oh man..."

"Oh, she's a naughty girl."

"What I wouldn't give..."
 

FStop7

Banned
Yeah, at first I was like, "Why are you guys so mean to Huey don't you remember the good 'ol days in Peace Walker? ;_;"

But then Strangelove and the dude had to go.

Not just that, it's his complicity in so much shit and then his piercing whining about how he's the real victim. If Kojima succeeded at making one character that inspires genuine emotions in me, it's how truly dislikable Huey is on a pretty deep level. He's the textbook "I was just following orders" collaborator. Volgin's probably the straight up most mustache-twisty evil villain in MGS. And he's almost comical. But Huey's just vile in a much more realistic way.

About Quiet, I hope Konami patches the game so she can be made available again. It's one thing to take a character away but Quiet's actually a gameplay component.
 

Rean

Member
After beating mission 31, Solid Snake seems even more amazing to me. Venom Snake had to fight Metal Gear in a wide open space with helicopter support, cover from attacks and, supply drops and Soild fights it in an enclosed space with no cover. Also, its still unclear to me how mantis got weaker in mgs1 if he could do so much crazy stuff when hes a kid.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
DLC mission where we save Sniper Wolf

Do it Konami
 

kiryogi

Banned
Yeah, I still don't get that. Why bother having additional costumes to unlock if you end up losing her in an obscure (without planning/guide-reading) way? And those are two of the best uniforms in the game!



Spoken like someone who hasn't watched the shower scene.

"Take a look at that."

"Man, oh man..."

"Oh, she's a naughty girl."

"What I wouldn't give..."

Up to that point I was valid! Then Kojima.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Also, its still unclear to me how mantis got weaker in mgs1 if he could do so much crazy stuff when hes a kid.

It's explained on a tape with inane pseudoscience about kids having more permeable brain mesh for ESP projections or some bullshit like that.

Mantis got weaker in MGS1 because they wanted him to be cooler in MGSV and MGSV was made afterwards.
 

ZeroX03

Banned
I've always considered Metal Gear to be the Star Wars of video games.

MGS1 = IV
MGS2 = V
MGS4 = VI
PW = II
TPP = III

Everything fits except MGS3, it's the antithesis of Phantom Menace.

It's explained on a tape with inane pseudoscience about kids having more permeable brain mesh for ESP projections or some bullshit like that.

I think that kids brain thing was referring more to Liquid and how Mantis was immediately attracted to his feelings of revenge. Also doesn't explain how Mantis was way stronger in MGS4. And Mantis in general doesn't have parasites or nanomachines son, he's just a crazy inconsistent mystery. And The Sorrow. Which is why it's funny that Kojima felt it necessary to explain the rest of the Cobra Unit.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Not just that, it's his complicity in so much shit and then his piercing whining about how he's the real victim. If Kojima succeeded at making one character that inspires genuine emotions in me, it's how truly dislikable Huey is on a pretty deep level. He's the textbook "I was just following orders" collaborator. Volgin's probably the straight up most mustache-twisty evil villain in MGS. And he's almost comical. But Huey's just vile in a much more realistic way.
Yeah, and it's pretty crazy to think about it considering PW, but didn't he try to drown his stepdaughter in 2? Huey's mad.

What did people think of the Paz stuff?
 

Rean

Member
Not just that, it's his complicity in so much shit and then his piercing whining about how he's the real victim. If Kojima succeeded at making one character that inspires genuine emotions in me, it's how truly dislikable Huey is on a pretty deep level. He's the textbook "I was just following orders" collaborator. Volgin's probably the straight up most mustache-twisty evil villain in MGS. And he's almost comical. But Huey's just vile in a much more realistic way.

About Quiet, I hope Konami patches the game so she can be made available again. It's one thing to take a character away but Quiet's actually a gameplay component.
I was so annoyed at how he complains about Venom killing the infected soliders. Meanwhile hes making Metal Gears and either putting or helping kids get into Metal Gears.
 

jediyoshi

Member
To me, stellar gameplay does make something a great overall game. But hey we have different priorities and I don't mind that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the majority people's priorities in regards to a Metal Gear game would put something like narrative closer to mattering rather than being completely irrelevant.
 

hamchan

Member
I was so annoyed at how he complains about Venom killing the infected soliders. Meanwhile hes making Metal Gears and either putting or helping kids get into Metal Gears.

He's the one that infected all those soldiers too! He's the most hatable villain in the whole game.
 

Spaghetti

Member
MGSV is room by room, there is just a big fat emptiness between each room.
no, it's really not. the virtue of being open world means it is not a fragmented environment like the room-by-room games. mgs4's tailing mission was a tedious experience because of the disconnect in environments, where mgsv's tailing mission(s) in an open environment removes this problem.

and there are still threats/opportunities for player engagement between the main larger outposts/villages. smaller guard posts and roaming foot patrols occur on the stretches of roads, not to mention a few side-ops off the beaten path. but that's not the point. mgsv's open world is not like the witcher 3 or gtav. it's a world you can actively jump out of if you want. don't like travelling across the map and haven't unlocked the fast travel for the place you want to go? hit the pause button and go back to the acc to be dropped in closer. the option is there for a reason. it's not an open world you have to exist in actively 100% of the time to get around.

pretty much all open worlds have stretches of fuck all, at least mgsv has the courtesy of not making you exist constantly within the world to the point you can't just get plopped where you need to be without being at a fast travel point.

don't like having to run a little bit sometimes to get closer to the mission area? that's the trade off for picking a landing zone where your chopper doesn't get immediately spotted, or gives you a chance to reach a vantage point to survey the area. run, use d-horse, d-walker, a jeep, a tank, a truck, slide down a hill in a box. the options are all there.

'where do the bees sleep' is one of the best missions in the game even though the mission objective is sooooo far from the start point. the fun of that mission is making it past the guard posts, then that great bridge area, and onwards towards the hamid fighter base and then into a catacombs within it. it's conical game design, it funnels you in closer and closer the further into the mission you get. it builds the tension by giving you the advantage of open space at first before it takes that away from you.

that's applied to the open world as well. don't want to fuck around with road patrols and smaller guard posts? you're given ample space to avoid them most of the time, but when you get closer to a base you better be on your goddamn guard. that's the point. the space is a player advantage when needed.
 

Zakard

Member
I think the Quiet ending was just great. Kojima knew that almost everyone will be using her all the time and to be honest she was quite OP. She was an extension of your abilities, so loosing her hurts just as loosing an arm. Snake loosing an arm didnt impact the game negatively at all. Loosing something so vital as an arm should impact the game, but instead we got all these useful tools. I think that Quiet is gone for good is very brave and I can only salute Kojima for beeing bold.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
something something kojima cosplay something something

despite the cringe, she's at least got a few cute moments. there's like an inkling of a love story in there, but much like everything in the second half of the game a lot of it probably got cut, because it races towards her ending pretty quickly and it barely feels like there's any context.

One thing I've come to realize is that Quiet has what this game is devoid of for everyone else, tapes or not - really good visual character moments. Moments that could have been made even better if the waifu factor got dialed down, and given more emotional expansion. I mean, making her your buddy that you (in a morbid, violent way lol) bond with in missions then getting scenes like the pendant retrieval, rain scene, and eventually get to that great final scene with her that causes you to lose her forever? That's fucking genius that never gets to its full potential because of those contrivances

Speaking of the rain scene, if I had it my way, should have been just something like the Shawshank Redemption scene - just her arms raised basking in the water, conveying her joy through facial expression, which would have complimented the "show more, say less" factor that her character could stand for. But, we got that voyeur's wet dream we got instead. If that happened instead and follow that up with the playing with VSnake then this may have edged into my Top 10 Metal Gear moments by just a bit, I swear.

But I digress. Again, what's more unfair is that people - ESPECIALLY those who were already established within these series waaay before Quiet - were robbed of equally resonating moments with Huey and off-screen Strangelove maybe being the only exception. Shit, EvilLore's idea of a mentally degrading V-Snake would have been fucking boss. I would have loved to have seen more illusions like ghost Paz.

So as I've stated in the OT, I'm actually totally okay and satisfied at how the plot turned out despite it's logic and retcons. What I really can't forgive is that it couldn't be buggered to have us feel more for the rest of the cast this time around, with only Quiet somehow managing to pass the test.
 
Mantis got weaker in MGS1 because they wanted him to be cooler in MGSV and MGSV was made afterwards.

This is the simplest reason for the Metal Gear in this 1983 prequel being an roided up Evangelion, yet apparently comes right before this thing

latest
 

Ishida

Banned
Also, its still unclear to me how mantis got weaker in mgs1 if he could do so much crazy stuff when hes a kid.

All we have about this is a little bit of info from Naomi from MGS, and a lot of headcanon.

Let's assume that Mantis' psychic powers need concentration and focus, and that is the reason why he's silent throughout the whole of MGSV.

Now, if I recall correctly, Naomi says during MGS that Mantis worked as an interrogator for the KGB, until one day he dove too deep into the mind of a psychotic criminal (Or something?), and thus "absorbed" the personality of such criminal.

So Mantis loses his mind and becomes psychotic himself. He loses focus, so he loses most of his powers (Or he simply doesn't bother to use them).

There is certainly a world of difference between Kid Mantis' personality (He has one..?) and the psychotic, fourth-breaking man we met in MGS.



Either that, or he just lost his powers as he grew older.


Or... Kojima doesn't give a crap.


Or all of the above.
 

Alienous

Member
This is the simplest reason for the Metal Gear in this 1983 prequel being an roided up Evangelion, yet apparently comes right before this thing

latest

Nah, Mantis is the reason.

Sahaelanthropus is a barely working marketing tool. Elements like his armour are cheaped out on for convenience. It's designed to be cool so that people want to buy Skull Face's nukes and isn't capable of much else until Mantis pilots it. Skull Face's real investment was the English language parasite.

It was quite a smart spin on what an MGS game usually entails.
 

Ōkami

Member
There was also no Huey or Strangelove to build that Metal Gear.

---------------------

Can we agree that Skull Face is one of, if not the most forgettable villain in the series?
 

105.Will

Member
Ōkami;177920756 said:
There was also no Huey or Strangelove to build that Metal Gear.

---------------------

Can we agree that Skull Face is one of, if not the most forgettable villain in the series?

I don't know. i'll admit he wasn't amazing, but he had some great moments in the cassette tapes. i'd say Galvez was way more forgettable.
 

Spaghetti

Member
i reasoned the mantis stuff as:

story reason - as he developed a personality of his own, his esp abilities took a dive because he was no longer able to be an empath. kinda like he 'filled the hard drive' of his brain too much to be a conduit for vengeful thoughts and had to rely on his own personality to fuel his power and nerfed him considerably.

design reason - power creep to suit story, and also would we take him seriously if the extent of his power was circling chairs around him and switching our televisions/monitors to HIDEO?
 
Ōkami;177920756 said:
Can we agree that Skull Face is one of, if not the most forgettable villain in the series?

He needed some kind of MGS-style torture scene or something equally as impactful to drive him home imo. I thought he was on a decent path before getting cut off.
 

hamchan

Member
Ōkami;177920756 said:
There was also no Huey or Strangelove to build that Metal Gear.

---------------------

Can we agree that Skull Face is one of, if not the most forgettable villain in the series?

Most forgettable was the Peace Walker villain which was....who? I remember a guy called Hot Coldman because that's a great name, but I forget if he was the villain or not.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Ōkami;177920756 said:
Can we agree that Skull Face is one of, if not the most forgettable villain in the series?
nah, that title goes to galvez and hot coldman in peace walker.

skull face was deliciously hammy, but i hated he basically had two big plots that got too mixed up and complicated to keep track of which was the real one. should have just left it with the controlled nukes stuff.
 
Ōkami;177920756 said:
Can we agree that Skull Face is one of, if not the most forgettable villain in the series?

Peace Walker, we all forgot about him.

Skullface, I mean I forgot he showed up in Mission #6, cuz it seriously felt like he showed up ten minutes before he died. He has neither the personal connection to the main character or cast any sense of menace and presence over the narrative like Liquid Snake/Ocelot, The Boss/Volgin, etc. He's just this vague anonymous threat we're suppose to be mad about until he shows up for his big speech 30 hours later and then dies. Doesn't help that, again, the main character is such an anonymous blank slate there's zero tension or drama between the two. No sense of foreboding to their inevitable showdown(or lack thereof). Snake looked bored on that truck ride to the Metal Gear.
 

Tookay

Member
Skullface was on the way toward being memorable until his plan blows up in his face within five minutes of him explaining it.
 

DSix

Banned

Wow so Venom is the real BB? If that was apart of the tape FTMWSTW I mean.

Wow. That goes in line with a super old theory I had way back before MGS4 came out I was harping on about on this forum, that the reason BB made Outer Heaven was because he was asked to by The Patriots to do so, so they could keep tabs on revolutionaries (a la Ghost Babel), a mission. He just couldn't manage to escape The Patriots' grasp in the end, they used him all the way no matter what, his story paralleled The Boss.

So on his final mission, he sends Solid Snake (probably at The Patriots' demand) to be put to death (Snake said in MGS1 BB wanted to die), but he wishes to use that inevitable confrontation against him to teach Solid Snake to never become like him. Not by telling him, because that won't change anything, but by making SS hate him so much he'd never become "a demon" himself. It's the same as The Boss did (well that's how I saw The Boss' final confrontation, she forces Big Boss to do The Philosophers' bidding, so that he will hate the idea and break free, where she never managed to, and in the end neither does BB).

It sounds like V here is basically spelling this out.

Imagine, the final confrontation between Solid Snake and Big Boss, a mirror of the fight between Big Boss and The Boss.

Arrrgh, why is the video deleted?! I need to hear this!
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Ōkami;177920756 said:
There was also no Huey or Strangelove to build that Metal Gear.

---------------------

Can we agree that Skull Face is one of, if not the most forgettable villain in the series?

Skull Face is pretty memorable in his brief appearance during Ground Zeroes, especially if you listen to the tapes, considering all the incredibly fucked up things he does in those interrogations and what happens to Paz on-screen. He's capable of doing anything to fulfill his goals, with more than a little menacing sadism on top.

In TPP he wears a silly mask, acts ridiculously, and gets squished unceremoniously. I couldn't really keep a straight face when the characters in Chapter 2 would pin all the ills of the world on Skull Face's diabolical machinations that live on past his death. Silly squished guy who uhhhhh threw a paralyzed guy down a flight of stairs and not much else? A paralyzed guy who is a way bigger d-bag in TPP than he is, for that matter. If anything, Huey is the real villain of the game, but that is handled far worse than Skull Face.
 
skull face was deliciously hammy, but i hated he basically had two big plots that got too mixed up and complicated to keep track of which was the real one. should have just left it with the controlled nukes stuff.
I will say that I liked Sins of the Father playing during his evil monologue. Hammy but felt more organic than The Ladder.

GZ Skull Face is good. MGS5 Skull Face is ehh.
 

Ōkami

Member
Alright, maybe exaggeraed a little bit, I guess Peace Walker's villains were less memorable.

Now that I think about it, its a shame there's no part of Mantis fucking up with the player, could've been done really well given the settings.
 

Klossen

Banned
Skull Face is pretty memorable in his brief appearance during Ground Zeroes, especially if you listen to the tapes, considering all the incredibly fucked up things he does in those interrogations and what happens to Paz on-screen. He's capable of doing anything to fulfill his goals, with more than a little menacing sadism on top.

Now that I think back on it, I actually think GZ was MGS storytelling at its peak. All the characters were well-established. There was a sense of desperation and tragedy. The tapes actually contributed without being of utmost importance. The voice acting, direction and dialouge were all great. The cutscenes, while few, were actually quite dense in how much they propelled the story forward. All the set pieces made sense and it was fun trying to figure out clues KojiPro left in there. The "Here's to You" intro is incredibly memorable and the outro sets the stage really well for a sequel.

Kojima really only needed to follow up on Ground Zeroes to make a great story but instead he pulled a 180 because plot twists are fun and stuff.
 

jgminto

Member
Skullface would have benefited from more exploration into his past with Cypher, XOF and Big Boss. The best part of the game featuring him is the tape with Zero you get at the end. He was definitely better than Hot Coldman at least.
 
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