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[SPOILERS] SPECTRE: Now we know what the C stands for.

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B

BertramCooper

Banned
It amuses the hell out of me that with all the rewrites this shitty movie underwent, most of the dumbest parts of the plot remained intact.

I can't believe they actually kept Blofeld being Bond's foster brother. Added absolutely nothing to the film while being laughably stupid.

John Logan needs to stay away from Bond.
 
S

Solo

Member
I'm going to show my girlfriend Casino Royale tonight. She's never seen it and I get to cleanse my palette with the best Bond film, Win win!
 
B

Blader

Member
Solo said:
Since he's without a contract, I think to get Craig back for one more, aside from a truckload of money, they're going to have to let him have some say in who they target for writers, directors and where the story goes.

I know they're against remakes, but if Craig did one last one I'd love to see a more faithful take on You Only Live Twice, which would be a great send off for Craig.
Click to expand...

Considering he got producer credit for this movie, that's probably not totally impossible.

Although do we actually want to see Craig play at Japanese? Maybe as a morbid curiosity...

BertramCooper said:
Le Chiffre and Silva, absolutely. Referenced many times.

Greene was treated as a complete afterthought. Mentioned and referenced as little as they possibly could.
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That's probably because he's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. He was just a member of Quantum, of which Mr. White was the leader. So White is going to get more of an acknowledgement than one of his henchmen; he's basically the catch-all name drop for Quantum and QoS. Plus White had a much bigger impact on Bond's life (Vesper) than Greene, who was more of an adversary for Camille.
 
E

EGM1966

Member
BertramCooper said:
You mean Greene, who they barely show in all of those photos of villains from the past three Bond films?

They go out of their way to acknowledge QoS as little as they possibly can.

Did Greene even show up in the opening credits when they were scrolling through all the past baddies?
Click to expand...
With the angle they took Greene is little more than a minor lieutenant. To be fair he squeals in QOS and it's pretty clear he's dead meat in the style of a failed junior. Mr White by surging at least remains a thorn in their side of sorts.

Ultimately they just position previous players as various lieutenants some of whom Bond brushed against.

Cliche but at least works as a retcon as nothing outright contradicts it.

My issue was the lame claim from Blofeld about architecting everything which clearly doesn't fit. It does occur to me he's just puffing up for Bond and overplaying that angle to try and rattle him, which would be in character I guess given how he behaves in this film, but it just feels a little limp for that character who's supposed to be the ultimate emotionless, pityless big bad who ends up coming across as a weak fool playing obvious mind tricks who's easy to outwit.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
Blader said:
That's probably because he's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. He was just a member of Quantum, of which Mr. White was the leader. So White is going to get more of an acknowledgement than one of his henchmen; he's basically the catch-all name drop for Quantum and QoS. Plus White had a much bigger impact on Bond's life (Vesper) than Greene, who was more of an adversary for Camille.
Click to expand...

EGM1966 said:
With the angle they took Greene is little more than a minor lieutenant. To be fair he squeals in QOS and it's pretty clear he's dead meat in the style of a failed junior. Mr White by surging at least remains a thorn in their side of sorts.

Ultimately they just position previous players as various lieutenants some of whom Bond brushed against.
Click to expand...

Greene actually led a major project for Quantum/Spectre.

Silva's connection to Spectre, on the other hand, seems tenuous at best. I think they hamfistedly tried to peg him as a member of Spectre in this film, which makes little sense because Silva's takedown of M was so personally motivated and very unlike any other operation Quantum/Spectre has done in these four films.

So sure, I could buy the argument that Greene was simply a minor player in the whole scheme of things (though I don't entirely agree). But I'd argue in return that Silva is arguably even less relevant to most of the plot of Spectre and he yet he was referenced in much greater quantity.

So it's pretty clear to me that Quantum of Solace's existence has been greatly diminished because of its comparative lack of popularity to Casino Royale and Skyfall.
 
L

LumpOfCole

Member
This movie could honestly be re-titled John Logan's 'A Series of Fortunate Events'.

There's a gag at the beginning that has Bond fall onto a couch as a building falls apart around him. It's a fun gag but it's actually symbolic of every critical plot point in the film. At every turn beyond the opening sequence, Bond and the other protagonists have a tremendous amount of luck.


  • Bond gets recognized at the secret Spectre meeting but fortunately only Mr. Hinx goes to chase him. Bond doesn't escape due to outwitting or outdriving Mr. Hinx, but literally flips random switches in his car like Deedee pressing buttons in Dexter's Laboratory until he ejects and escapes. (Side note: Why write 'Air' instead of 'Eject' on the goddamned Eject switch, other than to be as ambiguous as possible for audiences? Shit, what if the spy is driving an untrained passenger around and they want to put on the Air Conditioning and misunderstands the switch because of the label?)
  • When Bond is chasing three cars from an airplane and manages to completely wreck the wings of his plane, Bond loses all ability to steer and can only accelerate forward. If you're driving or riding in these chased cars, you fucking see this and go "Hah, that plane is fucked, we got away with the girl! Lets wait for that plane to stop or crash and we can get Bond too." Nope, instead the cars fucking turn into the accelerating path of the crippled plane just to be T-Boned through a lumber mill. Jesus fucking Christ.
  • Bond makes his way to L'Americain, rummages around a bit looking for a hidden stash or door, then just gives up and decides to watch over Swann as she sleeps. Thankfully a rat appears, likely disappointed in Bond, to show him where to really look to keep the plot moving.
  • Bond and Swann then take a train to go get purposely captured by Oberhauser, even though Bond is attacked on the train by Mr. Hinx. Bond basically loses the fight but thankfully Swann has some shooting skills and saves the both of them from being captured or killed by Oberhauser while riding a train to go get captured or killed by Oberhauser. Since Hinx is dead, doesn't that mean another super secret Spectre meeting to replace him? Nah, let's stick to the plan.
  • Shockingly, Bond and Swann find themselves captured by Oberhauser who reveals himself to be Blofeld. Fortunately for Bond, Bond's torture table includes a mechanism that brings his hands close together and behind him, just enough for him to fiddle with his watch (actually, really just take off his watch) out-of-sight and work to blow up the torture chamber. Thankfully Q's innuendo really did mean that the watch blows up and just doesn't get extremely loud when the alarm goes off.
  • Also fortunately, Blofeld's entire compound apparently has a thermal exhaust port that leads directly into the reactor system. I guess Bond used the Force and the base exploded right after getting away with Swann. Sorry Mr. Bigglesworth - I guess it's possible you're a hairless cat now, as this movie is starting to resemble Dr. Evil's origin story from Goldmember.
  • Back in London, Swann decides to say goodbye to Bond, because Bond "isn't going to change." Shockingly, Swann gets captured seconds later because Bond wasn't fucking finished doing his job yet and forgot that taking a city stroll would be a bad idea. Blofeld is remarkably busy over the course of this same evening setting up a Bond-themed haunted house with the fortunately-captured Swann as the centerpiece. Bond finds her, saves her, falls down a huge hole into the conveniently placed safety net, finds a boat and thrusts full speed out of the explosion.
  • As luck would have it, Blofeld's helicopter is leisurely flying over that same river at shooting distance from Bond's boat. Bond shoots the copter until its HP reaches 0, and then the copter crashes onto London Bridge. Blofeld, ripe for the shooting and for all the protagonists to show up simultaneously, tells Bond to just finish the movie already. Bond shoots to kill... any ending where Swann might leave him, and proceeds to go and chill with his new squeeze. The British Justice System will take it from here, boys. Credits.
 
B

badcrumble

Member
BertramCooper said:
It amuses the hell out of me that with all the rewrites this shitty movie underwent, most of the dumbest parts of the plot remained intact.

I can't believe they actually kept Blofeld being Bond's foster brother. Added absolutely nothing to the film while being laughably stupid.

John Logan needs to stay away from Bond.
Click to expand...

I think if Blofeld had *pretended* to be Bond's foster brother in order to more effectively fuck with Bond while actually having quietly killed the dude it would have played much better.

Likewise if all of the theatrics in general had just been a show in order to manipulate Bond.

Theatrical villains are over but it'd be cool to subvert those tropes by having a villain be theatrical solely in order to misdirect the protagonist.
 
A

Alienous

Member
I thought it was a shame they didn't go through with Blofeld killing James Bond's ability to recognize faces. That seemed like such a fitting torture, right next to mangling his balls with a swinging knot.

The idea of James Bond, as cold and distant as he is, being made unable to form connections with people seemed appropriate.
 
B

Blader

Member
BertramCooper said:
Greene actually led a major project for Quantum/Spectre.
Click to expand...
I know but it was still a project within Quantum; Greene was only a lieutenant in that group, White was the leader, so his name is basically the umbrella reference for Quantum. Le Chiffre and Silva may have been retconned into members of SPECTRE, but they weren't part of the Quantum branch; they were their own players within the larger scheme.

Plus again, those two and White had the biggest impact on Bond and his losses; Le Chiffre and White are complicit in Vesper's blackmail and death, Silva is complicit in M's death. So it makes sense to emphasize their names more than Greene's, who had comparatively very little to do with Bond.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Alienous said:
I thought it was a shame they didn't go through with Blofeld killing James Bond's ability to recognize faces. That seemed like such a fitting torture, right next to mangling his balls with a swinging knot.

The idea of James Bond, as cold and distant as he is, being made unable to form connections with people seemed appropriate.
Click to expand...
You can't be an assassin without the ability to recognize faces. It's like you literally can't process a person's face, you need to rely on hair color and body shape/size and voice, etc.

(I'm a psychology major)
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
LumpOfCole said:
This movie could honestly be re-titled John Logan's 'A Series of Fortune Events'.

There's a gag at the beginning that has Bond fall onto a couch as a building falls apart around him. It's a fun gag but it's actually symbolic of every critical plot point in the film. At every turn beyond the opening sequence, Bond and the other protagonists have a tremendous amount of luck.


  • Bond gets recognized at the secret Spectre meeting but fortunately only Mr. Hinx goes to chase him. Bond doesn't escape due to outwitting or outdriving Mr. Hinx, but literally flips random switches in his car like Deedee pressing buttons in Dexter's Laboratory until he ejects and escapes. (Side note: Why write 'Air' instead of 'Eject' on the goddamned Eject switch, other than to be as ambiguous as possible for audiences? Shit, what if the spy is driving an untrained passenger around and they want to put on the Air Conditioning and misunderstands the switch because of the label?)
  • When Bond is chasing three cars from an airplane and manages to completely wreck the wings of his plane, Bond loses all ability to steer and can only accelerate forward. If you're driving or riding in these chased cars, you fucking see this and go "Hah, that plane is fucked, we got away with the girl! Lets wait for that plane to stop or crash and we can get Bond too." Nope, instead the cars fucking turn into the accelerating path of the crippled plane just to be T-Boned through a lumber mill. Jesus fucking Christ.
  • Bond makes his way to L'Americain, rummages around a bit looking for a hidden stash or door, then just gives up and decides to watch over Swann as she sleeps. Thankfully a rat appears, likely disappointed in Bond, to show him where to really look to keep the plot moving.
  • Bond and Swann then take a train to go get purposely captured by Oberhauser, even though Bond is attacked on the train by Mr. Hinx. Bond basically loses the fight but thankfully Swann has some shooting skills and saves the both of them from being captured or killed by Oberhauser while riding a train to go get captured or killed by Oberhauser. Since Hinx is dead, doesn't that mean another super secret Spectre meeting to replace him? Nah, let's stick to the plan.
  • Shockingly, Bond and Swann find themselves captured by Oberhauser who reveals himself to be Blofeld. Fortunately for Bond, Bond's torture table includes a mechanism that brings his hands close together and behind him, just enough for him to fiddle with his watch (actually, really just take off his watch) out-of-sight and work to blow up the torture chamber. Thankfully Q's innuendo really did mean that the watch blows up and just doesn't get extremely loud when the alarm goes off.
  • Also fortunately, Blofeld's entire compound apparently has a thermal exhaust port that leads directly into the reactor system. I guess Bond used the Force and the base exploded right after getting away with Swann. Sorry Mr. Bigglesworth - I guess it's possible you're a hairless cat now, as this movie is starting to resemble Dr. Evil's origin story from Goldmember.
  • Back in London, Swann decides to say goodbye to Bond, because Bond "isn't going to change." Shockingly, Swann gets captured seconds later because Bond wasn't fucking finished doing his job yet and forgot that taking a city stroll would be a bad idea. Blofeld is remarkably busy over the course of this same evening setting up a Bond-themed haunted house with the fortunately-captured Swann as the centerpiece. Bond finds her, saves her, falls down a huge hole into the conveniently placed safety net, finds a boat and thrusts full speed out of the explosion.
  • As luck would have it, Blofeld's helicopter is leisurely flying over that same river at shooting distance from Bond's boat. Bond shoots the copter until its HP reaches 0, and then the copter crashes onto London Bridge. Blofeld, ripe for the shooting and for all the protagonists to show up simultaneously, tells Bond to just finish the movie already. Bond shoots to kill... any ending where Swann might leave him, and proceeds to go and chill with his new squeeze. The British Justice System will take it from here, boys. Credits.
Click to expand...

Nailed it. Though Blofeld didn't setup anything with the MI5 headquarters, it was set to be demolished that next week.
Alienous said:
I thought it was a shame they didn't go through with Blofeld killing James Bond's ability to recognize faces. That seemed like such a fitting torture, right next to mangling his balls with a swinging knot.
Click to expand...

Yea that part was stupid especially since Blofeld specifically stated that second drilling does exactly that. Bond gets the tiny drill in the side of the neck and somehow science doesn't work because reasons.
 
A

Alienous

Member
More_Badass said:
You can't be an assassin without the ability to recognize faces. It's like you literally can't process a person's face, you need to rely on hair color and body shape/size and voice, etc.

(I'm a psychology major)
Click to expand...

Nah, Bond could manage it.

"Hey, does that guy look like the man in this picture?"
"Yeah, it looks like it's the same guy"
"Thanks *pht pht*"

The idea of losing the ability to recognize faces hits me like few things do. I felt physically ill when that Blofeld was explaining it, and I had to leave the theatre and go outside to take a few breaths. Even watching videos about prosopagnosia makes my entire body feel numb.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
LumpOfCole said:
This movie could honestly be re-titled John Logan's 'A Series of Fortune Events'.

There's a gag at the beginning that has Bond fall onto a couch as a building falls apart around him. It's a fun gag but it's actually symbolic of every critical plot point in the film. At every turn beyond the opening sequence, Bond and the other protagonists have a tremendous amount of luck.


  • Bond gets recognized at the secret Spectre meeting but fortunately only Mr. Hinx goes to chase him. Bond doesn't escape due to outwitting or outdriving Mr. Hinx, but literally flips random switches in his car like Deedee pressing buttons in Dexter's Laboratory until he ejects and escapes. (Side note: Why write 'Air' instead of 'Eject' on the goddamned Eject switch, other than to be as ambiguous as possible for audiences? Shit, what if the spy is driving an untrained passenger around and they want to put on the Air Conditioning and misunderstands the switch because of the label?)
  • When Bond is chasing three cars from an airplane and manages to completely wreck the wings of his plane, Bond loses all ability to steer and can only accelerate forward. If you're driving or riding in these chased cars, you fucking see this and go "Hah, that plane is fucked, we got away with the girl! Lets wait for that plane to stop or crash and we can get Bond too." Nope, instead the cars fucking turn into the accelerating path of the crippled plane just to be T-Boned through a lumber mill. Jesus fucking Christ.
  • Bond makes his way to L'Americain, rummages around a bit looking for a hidden stash or door, then just gives up and decides to watch over Swann as she sleeps. Thankfully a rat appears, likely disappointed in Bond, to show him where to really look to keep the plot moving.
  • Bond and Swann then take a train to go get purposely captured by Oberhauser, even though Bond is attacked on the train by Mr. Hinx. Bond basically loses the fight but thankfully Swann has some shooting skills and saves the both of them from being captured or killed by Oberhauser while riding a train to go get captured or killed by Oberhauser. Since Hinx is dead, doesn't that mean another super secret Spectre meeting to replace him? Nah, let's stick to the plan.
  • Shockingly, Bond and Swann find themselves captured by Oberhauser who reveals himself to be Blofeld. Fortunately for Bond, Bond's torture table includes a mechanism that brings his hands close together and behind him, just enough for him to fiddle with his watch (actually, really just take off his watch) out-of-sight and work to blow up the torture chamber. Thankfully Q's innuendo really did mean that the watch blows up and just doesn't get extremely loud when the alarm goes off.
  • Also fortunately, Blofeld's entire compound apparently has a thermal exhaust port that leads directly into the reactor system. I guess Bond used the Force and the base exploded right after getting away with Swann. Sorry Mr. Bigglesworth - I guess it's possible you're a hairless cat now, as this movie is starting to resemble Dr. Evil's origin story from Goldmember.
  • Back in London, Swann decides to say goodbye to Bond, because Bond "isn't going to change." Shockingly, Swann gets captured seconds later because Bond wasn't fucking finished doing his job yet and forgot that taking a city stroll would be a bad idea. Blofeld is remarkably busy over the course of this same evening setting up a Bond-themed haunted house with the fortunately-captured Swann as the centerpiece. Bond finds her, saves her, falls down a huge hole into the conveniently placed safety net, finds a boat and thrusts full speed out of the explosion.
  • As luck would have it, Blofeld's helicopter is leisurely flying over that same river at shooting distance from Bond's boat. Bond shoots the copter until its HP reaches 0, and then the copter crashes onto London Bridge. Blofeld, ripe for the shooting and for all the protagonists to show up simultaneously, tells Bond to just finish the movie already. Bond shoots to kill... any ending where Swann might leave him, and proceeds to go and chill with his new squeeze. The British Justice System will take it from here, boys. Credits.
Click to expand...

This is tremendous, thanks.
 
S

samn

Member
More_Badass said:
You can't be an assassin without the ability to recognize faces. It's like you literally can't process a person's face, you need to rely on hair color and body shape/size and voice, etc.

(I'm a psychology major)
Click to expand...

well he should either have not been an assassin after the procedure or that procedure should not have been performed in the film.

the scene just doesnt make sense
 
M

More_Badass

Member
samn said:
well he should either have not been an assassin after the procedure or that procedure should not have been performed in the film.

the scene just doesnt make sense
Click to expand...
Definitely. It was especially stupid to me because we had just learned about the visual system in my physiological psych class, so hearing Blofield talk about drilling into the brain, into the fusiform gyrus, and...nothing happens was such a "no, it doesn't work like that. This is so stupid" moment

It's ridiculous, and weakens both Bond as a hero (escapes unharmed, somehow, because of reasons and luck, rather than skill and cunning) and Blofield as a villain (having a torture machine that does nothing and leaves Bond with his gadgets)
 
K

Kathian

Banned
I was opened my mouthed at the end. What a dark note to end the film. We all know exactly how it will start in the next - and they play jolly music. What a very good if evil joke!
 
R

ryan299

Member
Every scene with Bond flirting is cringe worthy. The scene where Swan falls into his arms cuz she drunk should've never made the final script.

Speaking of Swan, she's all over the place. She loves him after no time, then dumps him, then comes back to him. She has gun skills and more hinted, which makes her badass but then she becomes a typical Bond girl.

The action is formulaic. We've seen it before. The franchise needs some fresh ideas.

The twist is so bad. Blofeld being James' adopted brother is a stupid idea and just doesn't work. I actually liked the idea of Spectre being involved in the prior 3 films in someway, but the way it is handled isn't good. You cannot just state to us that they were there running everything.

The opening sequence is the best part of the film bc of the long shot.

Has Craig's bond retired in all 4 of his films? I can't remember QoS, but it ruined the ending of this film. Like I don't believe he will stay retired at all and I was upset with the last scene where he went to Q to get the car. Him coming back and saying "it didn't work out" would've played much better to the character.

Moneypenny was great in Skyfall and is given nothing to do in this film. They dropped the ball there.

The title sequence and song were awful. Probably the worse song in the franchise.

I think they need to recast and go younger.
 
S

Scott32020

Member
I like that they pulled off the SPECTRE world domination theme in a relatively more grounded way, that was fitting for the Craig films.

Craig film ratings now: Casino Royale > Skyfall > SPECTRE > Quantum of Solace

Skyfall cinematography was better, but the rest of SPECTRE was about as good as Skyfall IMO.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Saw it last night... had some great, memorable actions scenes and was otherwise pretty meh. About 30 minutes too long too.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
Logan's script should have been scrapped completely. I don't know why they tried to save it. It was garbage from the outset and it was clearly unsalvageable.
 
T

Timu

Member
The helicopter and train scenes are my fav moments from this movie.

Meanwhile I didn't like how long this movie went on, could had been shorter.
 
B

Blader

Member
BertramCooper said:
Logan's script should have been scrapped completely. I don't know why they tried to save it. It was garbage from the outset and it was clearly unsalvageable.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure who was responsible for what, but the early drafts of the movie were completely different. The only similarity between that first script and now was that Blofeld was still the villain and he was using a different name for much of the story.
 
E

EGM1966

Member
BertramCooper said:
Greene actually led a major project for Quantum/Spectre.

Silva's connection to Spectre, on the other hand, seems tenuous at best. I think they hamfistedly tried to peg him as a member of Spectre in this film, which makes little sense because Silva's takedown of M was so personally motivated and very unlike any other operation Quantum/Spectre has done in these four films.

So sure, I could buy the argument that Greene was simply a minor player in the whole scheme of things (though I don't entirely agree). But I'd argue in return that Silva is arguably even less relevant to most of the plot of Spectre and he yet he was referenced in much greater quantity.

So it's pretty clear to me that Quantum of Solace's existence has been greatly diminished because of its comparative lack of popularity to Casino Royale and Skyfall.
Click to expand...
Oh it's more st certainly us fished. I'm just speaking to how they've retconned it. Mr White is a major player who had a turn of conscience, Greene is a failed trooper summarily dispatched and Silva is another key figure.

It works contextually - all the previous films hinted at hidden organisations, but it's still a drastic retcon that ignores the random chance of Judi Dence's Ms demise, the way Greene was played as a major player and Mr White a more minor and Silva goes from a loose cannon with his own agenda to another tentacle of the web.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Opening sequence was cool, and the train fight was well done as a sequence, even if I think it was kinda stupid in context.

But ugh, the Daniel Craig series started so good!

These aren't even Bond films anymore. This is Batman. This is a pale imitation of the first act of Grant Morrison's Batman epic. Spectre and Skyfall, and the reconfiguring of CR and QoS that they do, have turned Bond into more of a mythic figure who has somehow been the target of a decades long conspiracy of revenge. Blofeld is basically an amalgamation of Hush and Dr Hurt.

That stuff works in Batman because a) it has decades of mythic storytelling to back it up, b) Grant Morrison is brilliant, c) it's not pretending to be part of the real world, and ultimately uses wild sci-fi concepts to set the foundation for the insane story.

But this is fucking James Bond, it's ridiculous. He should not be the target of global conspiracies because of childhood jealousies. Spectre, the organization, doesn't even seem to have any other real grand plan. There's some vague lip service about global surveillance for utterly unknown ends, and a brief mention exploiting migrant women, but Blofeld isn't concerned about a damn thing except toying with Bond in the most personal ways possible.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
I would have to rewatch QoS but my gut reaction is that this was the worst of the Craig films. So many elements of this film were bad that it's hard to criticize the film overall due to the raw amount of work it would entail.
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
I want to note but these last two films have had an incredibly Rape-y vibe to them. Bond gets the girl and all. But how Monica's character was handled... that was amazingly fucking creepy and not sexy at all. It's like, I killed the guys out there, killed your husband, and now have you pinned against the wall after you said your dead. Let's fuck.

CR and QoS gave us two of the best Bond ladies and even the secondary ones were treated well in their romance scenes at least. But these last two. Might as well step back to Connery hitting women and fucking a girl straight.
 
V

v0yce

Member
Ugh, I also just remembered the part where James literally chooses his path between his old life and M and a new life with Swann. Just... eesh.

Scott32020 said:
Casino Royale > Skyfall > SPECTRE > Quantum of Solace
Click to expand...

I know opinions and all, but I have no idea how people can like Skyfall and Spectre more than QoS.

Quantum, aside from a few quibbles, is a really good Bond flick.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
HIGH DEF JEFF said:
Gourley said he met someone who is sort of "in the know" and friends with Purvis and Wade...that person blamed John Logan.
Click to expand...

He's talking about Nick Hornby, actually. And he apparently gave sort of a "knowing look" when the topic came up, I guess. So I don't think it was Hornby unloading on Logan.

Also, Hornby didn't like Spectre as much as he liked Skyfall.

They also give Devin Faraci a bunch of props.

They also don't seem to understand that Casino Royale is a reboot, because Mira thinks this movie is a brain-melter because of how it slots into continuity.

They also loved the shit out of it.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
Blofeld's motivation was laughably bad. Movie overall just felt utterly lifeless, like everyone involved was going through the motions.

The best part of the movie was the introduction to Swan and the ensuing alpine chase. Everything else was just dull. Like holy shit that car chase was bad.

I don't care if Hinx comes back because he had no presence in the movie.

I don't really want a continuation of this movies plot either. It's unfortunate that this one sets up a sequel so hard because I really don't want to see the OHMSS remake it's pointing to.

"Reboot" again with Fassbender as Bond and bring it back to the stripped down, class, brutality of Casino Royale. No more winking homages just get some writers who can do something compelling with Bond.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Basic critiques:

-Opening sequence was conceptually good in that the Day of the Dead gives the atmosphere a surreal effect and lends towards some gorgeous shots although I wonder if they could have done the parade thing at night.
-The helicopter fight dragged on way too long like almost every other action scene in this film. The other notable cases being the car chase and the plane chase. The car chase being so goddamn bloated and boring that I was wondering if I was missing some in-joke. Nothing happens other than the stupid joke with the slow driver and the flames at the end.
-The idea of C wanting to replace manned missions is a cliched to death theme in modern times but it might have been fine as a result of the fallout from Skyfall. Too bad the movie undercuts C by having him be Blofeld's lackey. A lackey whom like Blofeld, can't explain their position on why terrorism and dictatorship being an alternative to democracy, are such great things.
-Monica Bellucci serves primarily to open her legs and strip.
-Most of the jokes in the film serve to undercut even the smallest amount of tension. They weren't funny or exceptionally clever which just left me groaning at their inclusion.
-Madeleine serves as the nu-Vesper despite not being anywhere near as interesting as a character.
-So did Mr.White knock down a wall in that hotel room every year he visited?
-The dialogue in this film could really pull out some clunkers like "Oh you expect me to fall into your arms after the death of my father?". Oh wow what great 4th wall commentary.
-Bond is an exceptionally shitty special agent for most of this film. He causes a huge ruckus in front of thousands of people, doesn't delete the footage at Mr.White's house, has to have a rat lead him to Mr.White's cubby, waits to be captured by Blofeld when they get off the train, and quickly gets kidnapped again.
-The train sequence was good in that Batista brought a lot of physicality to the scene and really made it seem like Bond was out of his league. Of course the film has to insert a shitty joke at the end of it and the editing was a little too haphazard in that it was hard to tell exactly what was going on at certain parts, but it was still good. Probably the highlight of the film.
-Blofeld plays these stupidly elaborate mind games that don't make sense considering the movie never put any groundwork into the relationship between Blofeld and Bond. I feel like the two needed a flashback to establish why Blofeld might be disgruntled or whatever. Instead it's a lazy case of telling, not showing.
-The movie again doesn't lay out nearly enough groundwork to make it seem like Blofeld was the 'author' behind all of Bond's pain. It just feels like some producer/writer wanted some quick and easy way to connect all the films instead of it being a natural climax to the previous movies.
-So why were there no consequences to Bond from the torture sequence? I thought there was going to be some big payoff or twist at the end but instead nothing happens to him.
-Madeleine says "I love you" in the torture scene then literally five minutes later in the film walks out because Bond is dedicated to the mission. Holy whiplash Batman.
-The MI6 building thing was stupid on every conceivable level. Why was Mr.White's portrait up there with M and Vesper like the dude wasn't a complete shitbag or that Bond cared? Also damn that must have been a long 3 minutes. I guess Bond was using JoJo Time.
-The M and C conversations should have been expanded so that there was some depth to them. As it stands it did flesh out M to a good extent but C just comes off as half-assed. Then C falling to his death after a one minute struggle had me literally face-palming in the theater.
-Finally Bond's decision not to kill Blofeld comes off as completely unearned considering the film did very little to establish any sort of brotherly relationship between the two. That producer's complaint about the ending was right on the money.

Some other general thoughts:

-The cinematography was an obvious step down from Deakins.
-Lots of good actors were just wasted in this film.
-Craig looked old as fuck in this movie, even moreso than Skyfall.
-Liked the opening theme a bit more than I expected to, considering how much I hate the song.
-Pacing was sluggish as fuck. Someone needed to have taken an axe to this.
-Not looking forward to the OHMSS remake.
-I liked the idea of Q being in the field and in danger. Too bad nothing interesting came from that.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
On the subject of James Bonding, I was amused by how Matt and Matt were both saying repeatedly how much they enjoyed Spectre without really sounding enthusiastic at all.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
More thoughts:


The cinematography was a big dissapointment too, especially since he's talented. The piss filter, beige color-palette, and framing that made it all look vaguely like a car commercial.

On a plus side, I thought the score was a slight step above Skyfall's from my memory of it, but outside I still didn't like Newman's approach.

Waltz was good as Blofeld doing his typical Waltz thing, but the character was poor.

MI6 scenes were the most boring part of the movie. I can't believe they ruined the "C" joke.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
The scenes in the Alps were especially disappointing.

I mean, I knew the movie was going to be a mess, but I was at least hoping those Alps sequences would be cool, since Bond has a history of cool mountain scenes.

Sadly, they were totally forgettable.
 
Sorcerer

Sorcerer

Member
Originally posted by LumpOfCole

Bond gets recognized at the secret Spectre meeting but fortunately only Mr. Hinx goes to chase him. Bond doesn't escape due to outwitting or outdriving Mr. Hinx, but literally flips random switches in his car like Deedee pressing buttons in Dexter's Laboratory until he ejects and escapes. (Side note: Why write 'Air' instead of 'Eject' on the goddamned Eject switch, other than to be as ambiguous as possible for audiences? Shit, what if the spy is driving an untrained passenger around and they want to put on the Air Conditioning and misunderstands the switch because of the label?)

The car was a prototype if I remember correctly. Nothing works as it should because Bond was not supposed to take it. Yes, Air is for the audience, but that can also be explained away as prototype as well.

Thinking about it maybe its called Air because in this case a parachute is included.

I thought it was a missed opportunity for a funny moment for him to fly the helicopter back to the hotel to meet the girl he was with. He said he would not be long. I thought there was a setup there. But I guess it made more sense to go straight into the title sequence.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Straight Edge said:
Did I miss something? Why is Bautista allowed to kill another Spectre member with impunity?
Click to expand...
Nonsensical theatricality. Makes no sense for this highly professional organization to let this beast of a man kill a guy for some vague sense of intimidation. They need someone to take over an operation, right? So they kill the guy who volunteered to do that, and then Hinx doesn't even proceed to replace that guy, but ends up chasing Bond around the world. Really dumb.

Jarmel said:
-So did Mr.White knock down a wall in that hotel room every year he visited?
Click to expand...
I had that same question.

-The dialogue in this film could really pull out some clunkers like "Oh you expect me to fall into your arms after the death of my father?". Oh wow what great 4th wall commentary.
Click to expand...
And then she jumps into his arms the very next day.

-Madeleine says "I love you" in the torture scene then literally five minutes later in the film walks out because Bond is dedicated to the mission. Holy whiplash Batman.
Click to expand...
I was really dismayed that they played it up as if they became super close in their entirely minimal amount of time together. "I love you" was some bullshit.

Then C falling to his death after a one minute struggle had me literally face-palming in the theater.
Click to expand...
Both this and the slow chase and shooting of Blofeld's helicopter were really anticlimactic.
 
Tom Nook

Tom Nook

Member
The movie feels like I'm watching Fast and Furious.

At Mexico City a building blew up a block away while a parade is going on, yet the people are still celebrating....

How did Bond get access to plane so fast? After batista kidnapped the girl, bond chases them to the front door misses them. Batista and company only drove to the next street then we see bond on the air....

Bond and the girl are having dinner in the train with other patrons. When batista suddenly shows to fight Bond, where are the patrons?

Overall I enjoyed it.
 
S

SuperStiltzkin

Member
Anyone know what was supposed to be going on between Bond and Madeleine when Blofeld replayed the footage of Mr. White shooting himself? Was it supposed to drive a wedge between the two of them? Because it felt pointless. It's not like Bond killed him. And even if she were mad at him, she just professes her love five minutes later when he gets tortured.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
I like how nobody knows how to spell "Bautista".

Fancy Clown said:
The cinematography was a big dissapointment too, especially since he's talented. The piss filter, beige color-palette, and framing that made it all look vaguely like a car commercial.
Click to expand...

I've been sort of struggling with this myself. There were lots of shots and frames that were absolutely gorgeous but I keep thinking a lot of the credit there should accrue to production design and set decorators. I don't have a super good eye for camera work there, It's hard for me to identify where the line between good subject / lighting and good camera work are.
 
B

Blader

Member
SuperStiltzkin said:
Anyone know what was supposed to be going on between Bond and Madeleine when Blofeld replayed the footage of Mr. White shooting himself? Was it supposed to drive a wedge between the two of them? Because it felt pointless. It's not like Bond killed him. And even if she were mad at him, she just professes her love five minutes later when he gets tortured.
Click to expand...
He wanted to spare her from watching her father kill himself.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
I also liked how Q had that graphic that showed the past villains lining up with SPECTRE tentacles

Like, where did he find that lol
 
Lashley

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
I enjoyed it, despite the fact it was underwhelming.

Casino Royale
Skyfall
Spectre
Quantum of Solace

thats my list
 
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