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Xenoblade X Localization Changes for Character Models
- Thread starter Jarmel
- Start date
Well too bad, it is their job.
Dice//
Banned
Yeah thanks for the one example. Women can disgaree with each other, we're not one sentient being.
Furthermore, there seem to be men in here agreeing with the change, so now where does that leave us?? x)
I'm having trouble understanding people's perspectives on HOW the game doesn't unfairly treat women's character creation when the option is solely for them with no compensation for what male attributes can be 'fit in' and how this isn't strictly an appeal to fanservice to have a boob slider.
There's no waist, leg, abdomen, arm slider... just tits. And that's not fanservice? The freedom to choose your boob size? What if I want to choose how fit my character is? If the option didn't exist to begin with, and all females indeed started with the same size rack (say if the NA version was the initial JP version), no one would complain....
shadow2810
Member
LOL. Name. I need the name.
theSlacker
Member
We are at an argumentative impasse since I fully disagree with that. I in no way think that it is the job of a localization team to decide what is offensive or viewed as socially problematic/cut what they think fits those qualifications. A localization team should have zero say in content/option availability based on those opinions.
The fact that you said that with such determination means that this is a fundamentally difference of opinion between us. If it is your point of view that they can and should act as a moral arbiter then we really have no avenue of further discussion on this topic.
Captains Curse
Banned
I don't need to play with virtual bust sizes to have fun.
I'm cool with the changes.
I'm cool with the changes.
GuessMyUserName
Member
This is such a reductive thing to say. There is a LOT of things in games that are not necessary, but their availability nonetheless as an option only makes it better, provided they aren't forced on to people who don't like thing. Especially when it comes to character customization, more customization the better and if you feel like a creep from adjusting your character's appearance then you can easily ignore said slider bar, it's not exactly a brand new feature nor has it ever been a controversial one since it just lets people go with a size they'd prefer, big, small, whatever perfect level in between.
Like by that logic, why change the character's height even? I don't need to adjust virtual heights to have fun. I don't even need costumes at all while we're at it, go take them all away Nintendo! "I'm cool with the changes" doesn't make sense to me when there's absolutely no gain. It's not even change, it's just straight removal. Not caring about the removal is one thing since it won't even come up for many people - but to support the removal? Why?
Captains Curse
Banned
It's not that I support the changes but I find myself indifferent. In the last Xenoblade, you did not have either of those options (bust or height) and only had the ability to swap armor. The bikini armor stats also sucked so I never found myself having anyone wear it.
I guess I just want to hurry in and dive into the world and mechs rather than get caught up on what the avatars look like.
If you are indifferent to player-creation, then you really don't have much of a point to make here about player-creation features...
Captains Curse
Banned
Fair enough. My only point was that it is not going to affect my ability to have fun with this game.
I am really looking forward to the skell customization the most because that is something I haven't really been able to do in a game.
poodaddy
Member
Yeah thanks for the one example. Women can disgaree with each other, we're not one sentient being.
Furthermore, there seem to be men in here agreeing with the change, so now where does that leave us?? x)
I'm having trouble understanding people's perspectives on HOW the game doesn't unfairly treat women's character creation when the option is solely for them with no compensation for what male attributes can be 'fit in' and how this isn't strictly an appeal to fanservice to have a boob slider.
There's no waist, leg, abdomen, arm slider... just tits. And that's not fanservice? The freedom to choose your boob size? What if I want to choose how fit my character is? If the option didn't exist to begin with, and all females indeed started with the same size rack (say if the NA version was the initial JP version), no one would complain....
Concise and logical; I totally agree. If the character creation system was more fleshed out to begin with then one could say that the bust slider wasn't meant for titillation, but as you pointed out that's not the case. The bust slider was meant purely for fanservice, and as such it has no real relevance to the "integrity" of the game. It's a minor omission, and the game is better for it.
If the slider was merely for titillation, then why does it allow for the player to reduce the bust size from the default setting? I think you are overthinking it. It is just a character customization option.
HOW.
even if the only purpose the devs added it was for pure titillation. That is still available to those types via the costumes and such. The only thing this change does is effect those using it for "pure" purposes and as such the game is worse off for it (ever so slightly...again not a big deal...just don't see how people are defending it as a good change).
More to the point, it is one out of two measurement variables. That's where their priorities lie. That is what women are to be defined by.
You're not fooling anyone.
Oh yeah, maybe think again about how titillation and small breasts can make sense.
So what, because there are other instances they cannot amend cheaply, they should not bother at all?
How do I put on ignore on mobile?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
The game isn't better for it, but a contrarian view formed through weird logic will naturally lead to that conclusion. This thread has been interesting so far if only to see how far some will go to defend removal of content (talking about the second point in the OP specifically).
I already have my Wii U and physical copy pre-order ready to go and this news has not affected my choice to purchase the game like 99.9% of the people who entered this thread with the intent to buy the game despite some who believe otherwise.
GuessMyUserName
Member
They edited Lyn's costume (something that apparently wasn't a big deal) so why not?
If this change really was to not be too sexualized, then go all the way, right?
also find it funny that since Big tits obviously only for men to jerk off too and small tits only for pedophiles to get off on...apparently there is some standard size that cuts off the perversion. Maybe we should get rid of the height slider too , don't want those perverts to create tiny girls with normal sized boobs. In fact, maybe we should just get rid of the whole genders period. Someone is going to be sexualized, those who won't do that be damned. If you are going to make all of these changes because someone out there is going to be a pervert...might as well just nix the whole create a character thing, no?
Only one, height. That one isn't heavy with connotation. Why the fuck do I have to explain this?
Probably because they had enough? They're a business, they don't really want to avoid sexualisation, they only want to appear as such.
I don't get your point. They certainly could have changed other body features, but all of them would affect both male and female models. Bust size by far is the most differentiating adjustable feature for female models from the male counterpart. Facial hair is for male models. Why did the developers add no more than these, height, skin color, hair style, hair features, hair color, face type, facial features, eye color, pupil color, etc.? I don't know, is that supposed to indicate something?
Dice//
Banned
Explain to me how breast size is relevant, or rather, the more relevant body customization worth prioritizing than anything else? Women are over-sexualized, generally sit second to men in life, and already made ridiculous in games.
No, a breast slider isn't the be-all, end-all of this issue... but it sure is a drop in a giant bucket where this kind of stuff keeps happening. I give NoA credit for removing it, whatever the reason it might have actually been for.
What does differentiation matter, nobody's going to mix up the PC's gender.
RPGs are popular with girls and women, which may get an early bad impression seeing breast size as one of two sliders in the cc.
All of that may be true...but there is still sexualization in the game. So in the end the very party people seem to wish never get served again...are getting served. And the only party negatively effected are the very party people are supposedly fighting for.
You also did not answer my question. Why is it a good change? To end sexualization of females?...welp
as for your question, breast size is a easy way to differentiate female design (especially in a CAP) without having to worry about rigging issues. On an artistic sense, it is part of the difference in the female silhouette in comparison with the male silhouette with the other being the waist. Just because the waist was not an option (and it should be) doesn't make taking out the breast slider that was already present is a great idea. I'll admit more than likely it is in the game because of lol BOOBS but even if 20 women would use that slider to ever so slightly create a character closer to them, it is worth it. The inital purpose of the slider is irrelevant , moreso because again that set is still getting theirs, but rather because it kills the small differences one could have between the characters. Its not a big deal..not a game breaker...my preorder is not cancelled...and hell I'd probably use the default size anyway (if not a bit smaller)...I just don't get how this is a good thing. Editing Mika in SFV? I disagree with it...but I get it. I get how that is better.... all I see here is taking away options from those who aren't the scum of the earth people seem to hate so much.
Such a beautiful speech. Full of truth. It brought a tear to my eye.
Seth Enosh
Member
Having only a breast size slider is pretty out of place when there's no corresponding slider for men. If there were a significant number of other gender neutral sliders (musculature, figure, body weight, etc) it would feel more legitimate.
I'll probably play with a female PC and might have adjusted the slider if it existed but won't be bothered much that it's gone, just like the non existent ability to customize my character's breast size in destiny and other games with character creators doesn't bother me.
I'll probably play with a female PC and might have adjusted the slider if it existed but won't be bothered much that it's gone, just like the non existent ability to customize my character's breast size in destiny and other games with character creators doesn't bother me.
Dice//
Banned
Yeah I did:
I think this is 'change'. I won't call it "good change" because apparently a bunch of people are really upset about this to go so far to cancel their preorder because they care so much for digital boobs or are so hot on important videogame censorship. But I sure as hell can't call it "bad change"; it's not like the game is leaving you with ironing-board-flat chicks, they're still quite voluptuous and even the playing field to be on par with men's character creation.
Let me be clearer at what I am getting at. A lot of you are saying that the slider's sole purpose is for titillation, but I don't agree.
You only get to adjust only height and boobs, you say, but that isn't true... they simply put a lot more features in the head customization than the body for whatever reason (most likely it's time and complexity).
You're talking about an RPG where people are going to invest a hundred plus hours into playing as the character they created, so do you truly believe then that the only reason why they put in a boob size slider is so guys can get off from it?
fair enough. Thanks for answering
GuessMyUserName
Member
What are the mandatory measurements needed in order of a breast slider to be acceptable? Connotation? What the hell? Forgive me if I don't treat breasts as inherently naughty as you do.
Would it be good if the game had more options? Absolutely, but removing options isn't a solution and all it does is take away from customization from a customization tool.
Bull fucking shit, it's body customization. Breasts are a part of the body and it's an entirely appropriate feature that benefits the creation tools. RPGs are popular with women, and yes some women do like to be able to customize their character fully, as women here have even expressed disappointment with this removal. Who are you to decide which women are "right"?
As people love to say here - they're just breasts who cares? What's the worst thing to come from accepting it, some women will eye roll at the feature, pass it, and finish their character never to see it again? While people will be happy to tweak their character how they prefer? Breast sliders in a body customization tool aren't as abhorrent as you make them to be.
One of these days I'll watch that all the way through.
Dice//
Banned
BOTH men and women have expressed BOTH approval and disapproval of this. What's your point? Or are we just recalling the one woman on the first page who said she didn't like it? (sorry if there were many others I missed).
Sure they're just breasts, hell I agree, but that isn't the world we live in where that's the case --- CLEARLY it means a lot to how women are ogled. Men aren't nearly under the same scrutiny as females, nor objectified by media, stereotyped, and treated as people better looked at than heard. Not to say men don't have problems in depictions harmful to themselves... and that's the point is we gotta talk about these things.
Also:
I'm not wearing a bra right now and it took me doing a FULL karate chop (impersonating Laura) to get my tit's to jiggle anywhere NEAR her point. Tit jiggle in game's is a caricature of reality, it's just silly looking.
Since it seems everyone is set in their opinions about the whole thing by this point, I'll just leave it at this: the only group being harmed by this change are female gamers. It's cutting your ears off to avoid being teased about their size. The vast majority of male gamers aren't losing anything, they get to keep all of the existing customization options they want because they'll be playing as male characters. Also, by not criticising Nintendo for this change, we're letting them get away with the shit they always do: quietly changing content and staying mum about the why because they don't want to stir the pot, rather than being a progressive force for change in the industry culture.
Anyway, looking forward to playing the game when it comes out.
Anyway, looking forward to playing the game when it comes out.
Dice//
Banned
Wait wha---??
Coolio McAwesome
Member
1) Boobs of all sizes exist in the real world. It's really fuckng creepy for anyone to suggest that some boob sizes are somehow more appropriate that others.
2) Medium-sized boobs are not inherently less sexualized than large boobs.
3) There is nothing wrong with having big boobs, and there's nothing wrong with liking big boobs. Therefore, there's no reason to shield gamers from big boobs.
4) It's a little bit alarming that so many people are suggesting that it's somehow a good thing for a game to be edited in a manner that effectively give players less options. Things should not be hidden from me because someone else might be offended by them. I think the vast majority of gamers who are good to play this T-rated game are mature enough to handle a concept like large breasts.
2) Medium-sized boobs are not inherently less sexualized than large boobs.
3) There is nothing wrong with having big boobs, and there's nothing wrong with liking big boobs. Therefore, there's no reason to shield gamers from big boobs.
4) It's a little bit alarming that so many people are suggesting that it's somehow a good thing for a game to be edited in a manner that effectively give players less options. Things should not be hidden from me because someone else might be offended by them. I think the vast majority of gamers who are good to play this T-rated game are mature enough to handle a concept like large breasts.
GuessMyUserName
Member
Did I say there wasn't? Did I say women are all pro-tits? No, my post specifically comments on the fact that women disagree and that's my point. I specifically argued that there's no one side that gets to decide how women feel, thus it's ludicrous to try to angle it in a way that the option should be removed "for women".
The option is originally part of the game. The removal is what needs to be justified, that's how censorship works (yeah you heard me - censorship isn't inherently evil!) - like say, Pokemon calling onigiri "donuts" or turning them into sandwiches because western kids don't know what the hell onigiri is.
Street Fighter is completely unrelated holy fuck, Laura's tit flailing is not even remotely in the same ballpark as a character customization tool letting you tweak your character's chest size. Like seriously does X even have jiggle physics? All you're doing is adjusting your size, it's completely god damn tame.
It's just ridiculous. You're setting parameters of your character's appearance, games have been doing it forever and it's not some huge source of wank material. Sizes aren't even crazy absurd either.
Dice//
Banned
1) You said it! So do bodies of different heights, weights, girths, etc. etc. XBX let's you control TWO aspects. Height, and breast size (♀ only). Nothing else.
2) It's true! So at least not everyone is stuck with A cups too! But you're also not running around with inflatable balloon boobs. The point is, the female avatar is no longer specifically specialized....in her customized bust.
3) Of course not, many people have boobs, hell some men have boobs.
There's totally nothing wrong with liking them, but women are often sexually exploited. They can show all they like but men are still the "more powerful" gender, and I'm afraid women's wonderful breasts get caught up in something other than JUST being a body part. This topic has gone into the double digits, it's an "important body part" in some way. I doubt people would give a fuck if you couldn't edit...I dunno, your arm length... Hell, or even weight; nope it's the tits that have priority.4) "Options" are an interesting word. Why are women given the special "boob" option? Men don't even have a 'fitness' or 'abs' option, they're all a standard body --- just height (for men and women) and boobs (women only) got prioritized. Is this about taking options away? There weren't many to start with, most dealing with the face. Is it really "the policing" upsetting you on basic principle? Can you tell us why NoA decided this? Was it for a PG-friendly game? A female-friendly game? Why? Is Xenoblade X about the breast slider? Is there no other selling point to this game? Or is it just on principle you can't get passed this decision?
Dude you're reaching at straws to argue with me here.
We're on two different wavelengths, I'm not sure what more to add.
NoA is unlikely going to comment, if they do, I'm sure another topic will come up so more of GAF can 'spill ink' on boob-related topics.
Jiggle physics and breast sliders, but "holy fuck" I think they have something in common... BOOBIES.
DDDBOTH are still highly sexualized. Laura's ridiculous jell-o jiggle and Lin in a bathing suit are still sexualizing a woman's chest to a pretty large degree. I don't have to spell that out, do I?
I think the main issue people have is the fact that it was taken out.
To go on and on about arm sliders and why there aren't any muscle settings is pointless. They never existed...and if they did and were taken out...I am sure people would be upset and wondering why. This argument about if the boob slider is for perverts or not or if it is too much sexualization is meaningless really. The fact is that it was removed.
People are wondering why and don't think its removal was a good thing. All of this conversation about arm sliders and such does not matter. People are missing the point of why people are upset...a feature was removed.
To go on and on about arm sliders and why there aren't any muscle settings is pointless. They never existed...and if they did and were taken out...I am sure people would be upset and wondering why. This argument about if the boob slider is for perverts or not or if it is too much sexualization is meaningless really. The fact is that it was removed.
People are wondering why and don't think its removal was a good thing. All of this conversation about arm sliders and such does not matter. People are missing the point of why people are upset...a feature was removed.
Dice//
Banned
So why does it matter that much? That's my question.
Is it on principle that "removed content is simply and always bad"?
Or is it that nature OF that content that has people upset?
I feel it's more the latter, under the guise of the former; lots of people otherwise talking about "realism in females breasts" to make it solely a matter of "removed content = bad". Coolio McAwesome just posted four points about why boobs mattered in this instance.
For me, and I cannot and will not speak for everyone, its that i don't think removing it does any good. Lyn's outfit edit? I get it, I understand it, and it makes sense. This change? I don't. I feel like it only really hurts well meaning folks when the attempt was more than likely an attempt to be progressive. The ideal of being more progressive is that more groups are catered too than just those dastardly horny males, no? IMO (key here...I am not God afterall), this fails at that big time because those horny dudes still get theirs while women and the like who just wanted to create a character to their own liking have less options to do so. I don't care that the CAP already didn't allow for them to create fat or skinny or if it isn't even for the male side (penis slider herp derp herp)...that is meaningless because that never existed, the boob slider did. Is it more than likely there for the dreaded fanservice? yes, I'm no fool. However, the secondary gain it presents is more than enough to validate it.
People are hunting this Pervert Boogeyman in the name of progression and "fixing" the industry and all I see them doing is gutting things from games that had secondary use or was liked for reasons outside of pure titalation; and that sucks. This quest for equality that has begun should be one of addition. People cry for equality and yet it seems more like they just want more stuff for them...others be damned. But if you cry for progression and bettering the industry it looks better than what it really is..."i want more stuff for me".
Like I said, this does not effect me. I generally do not use the boob slider in CAPs and probably wouldn't here. So of course, I am sure I'll get the "then why do you care"? crap. Ignoring the fact that I can easily flip that (stop caring so much about things and go play thing you like is a dumb fuck way to debate), I care because I don't get why is this good thing. I'm not saying burn down Nintendo or boycott the game...I just do not understand how cutting an option is good thing in this case. The "good" it does (doesn't create this weird climate of acceptable size, allows people to idk edit their characters as they see fit for whatever fucking reasons they may have) outweighs the negative (Perverts ruining our gaemz)...moreso because the negative is still present.
But that is just me....I don't speak for everyone.
I wont go over your other posts as we have completely different beliefs regarding what is and isn't sexualized and thats perfectly fine and I can't speak for that one person who this post of yours were meant for but I did answer in a few posts on page 18 why this change does matter to me. As an adult flat chested woman thanks to this change I no longer have the option to make a female character that represents me in the way I would have if the slider was left in tact. The bust size that is now the only bust size in the game is too large for my preference and does distract slightly from the immersion I would have why my playable character. There are many very appropriate and non sexual armor sets in the game whose looks change based off of the looks of the character that is created. Though obviously this change doesn't make the game somehow awful or boycott worthy.
Like I said in other posts people with larger bodies, weights etc... that were never provided with a scale to adjust so they could create a character that would be more immersive for them have a very valid argument and right to complain and question why they never existed but the fact is they never did exist and further removing options doesn't benefit anyone. Punishing users like myself who had no intent to use the slider or the optional outfits as a tool for unnecessary fanservice but as a simple tool in a limited selection to better make a character more closer to myself because a very few amount of people might have abused it or used it for less then savory means is not something I can personally agree with or be happy about. Removing the optional outfits from everyone and not just Lyn would have been a much effective and believable change if the goal was to remove fanservice or give a better image.
Having said all of that this isn't the greatest crime in humanity and doesn't, like I said, devalue the game as a whole but it is just another questionable decision by NoA or any western company and if stuff like this is deemed as pandering and sexist to me and someone who has dealt with sexist remarks in the past just devalues the real issues.
Dice//
Banned
I still can't say I agree with everything you say, but i really do appreciate the much more lengthy write up on the matter. Indeed, I'd love more options in general than removing them, I think the XBX CC is satisfactory at best (especially unfortunately since the environments are so ballin'). I'm not willing to say this is "a good thing" either, because indeed, I like options and I can understand why people enjoy fantasy (even if it's buxom female avatars), and I'd have *loved* seeing more body options for guys and gals, but I still can't be pressed to say it's completely a bad thing just because how awkwardly the character customization frames the breast slider so specifically. If the game had a more in-depth CC then decided to get rid of a bust slider amongst everything else and leave weight, height, mass, build (i.e.; see Dragon's Dogma character creator), then even I'd find it strange myself to remove it too. Context kinda mattered here I guess.
InternHertz
Member
I just hope they won't do that in the Japanese version.
Then again, they would've had plenty of time to do it so it should be OK.
And I made a male character anyway...
It's just sad they're still doing those kinds of edits in this day and age.
Then again, they would've had plenty of time to do it so it should be OK.
And I made a male character anyway...
It's just sad they're still doing those kinds of edits in this day and age.
PensivePen
Member
I'm pretty sure if we found out there was an option to edit arm length or weight in the Japanese version that was dummied out in the Western release, not only would people still be annoyed, it would be in much greater volume.
GuessMyUserName
Member
Jiggle physics and breast sliders, but "holy fuck" I think they have something in common... BOOBIES.
BOTH are still highly sexualized. Laura's ridiculous jell-o jiggle and Lin in a bathing suit are still sexualizing a woman's chest to a pretty large degree. I don't have to spell that out, do I?
That's it? The connection is just BOOBIES? Yeah exactly, not all cases involving boobs are the same. Jiggly flapping around boobs is one thing, basic appearance control is nothing at all the same situation - customizing your body in a character customizer is perfectly appropriate.
Breasts aren't inherently about sexual gratification and it's really messed up how they are viewed as being so problematic in the western world.
Ehh more people would disapprove, but it wouldn't cause as much of an uproar
Mainly since these issues are fueled by conflicting opinions. Part of why it's ridiculous for those gotcha posts like "nobody ever talks about censorship unless it's about BOOBS", because it's only the BOOBS cases that are actually debated, leading to more discussion. If arms adjustments were removed, everybody would be on board to say it's a really stupid decision and that would be that.
I would have preferred they fit in different sliders instead, but understandably, that would be a lot of extra work for localizing.
Doesn't mean the original Devs couldn't have implemented multiple sliders. I'm super skinny, I'd like the option to reflect that. My thighs are kind of large though... So if I could also change that, it'd be even cooler.
I'd love if all character creators just went all-out. Full range of: Skin tone, Faces, head size, weight, chest size (for BOTH genders), height -- shoot, foot size even! Who cares if you could make your guy/girl look like a goof with it all, it would open up the opportunity for everyone else to make what they want to look like.
Doesn't mean the original Devs couldn't have implemented multiple sliders. I'm super skinny, I'd like the option to reflect that. My thighs are kind of large though... So if I could also change that, it'd be even cooler.
I'd love if all character creators just went all-out. Full range of: Skin tone, Faces, head size, weight, chest size (for BOTH genders), height -- shoot, foot size even! Who cares if you could make your guy/girl look like a goof with it all, it would open up the opportunity for everyone else to make what they want to look like.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Dude you're reaching at straws to argue with me here.
We're on two different wavelengths, I'm not sure what more to add.
NoA is unlikely going to comment, if they do, I'm sure another topic will come up so more of GAF can 'spill ink' on boob-related topics.
Jiggle physics and breast sliders, but "holy fuck" I think they have something in common... BOOBIES.
BOTH are still highly sexualized. Laura's ridiculous jell-o jiggle and Lin in a bathing suit are still sexualizing a woman's chest to a pretty large degree. I don't have to spell that out, do I?
I think posting what was officially acknowledged as a glitch exclusive to the player 2 side of a game that isn't done yet, made by a different studio and publisher, is in a different genre and thus not at all about player customisation is "reaching at straws." It had nothing to do with the discussion at hand and you can't use cases you perceive to be more sexualising as an argument to remove elements from a game that sexualise much, much less. Nor does any of your personal offence justify censorship.
And you'll find most games with women to have "BOOBIES
DDD" and in this case they aren't sexualised by the breast slider you're so heavily against, rather by the revealing outfits that are retained in the Western release. So as Mik317 pointed out, the change you're defending is mostly useless to your cause.Primary purpose. At least that's what it looks like.
No, I made a similar distinction. The point is the option stands out.
Nobody's going to get off of that, but guys like looking at breasts, and sexualisation sells. This probably was enough for them to give priority to shoddily implement what likely has become a staple feature in the genre?
Anyway, the Japanese likely didn't think much about it. I imagine that then American focus testers too often couldn't hold back a snark about the slider and that's why it got axed.
Good thing nobody's doing that.
Big breasts are part of the beauty ideal, come on.
Sucks for you, but this is about minorities.
Probably because harm is not the intention?
This actually has given me the idea of tying the breast size to the height slider. They probably didn't come upon that one.
bishopcruz
Member
People are generally OK with censorship of things that make them uncomfortable, or things they view as problematic. Which is a shame, really.
That was a great episode.