All I know is that I'm confused as hell by this thread
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Opinion: The PS4 will support 4K blu-ray
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
- Start date
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All I know is that I'm confused as hell by this thread
The PS4 will maybe never not support 4K blu-ray.
Perfect.
nycgamer4ever
Member
I can't believe that people actually believe Ps4 WON'T support 4K.
boredandlazy
Member
What if someone releases a UHD blu-ray on a regular Dual-Layer disc? 
Clockwork
Member
When has a Jeff_rigby speculation thread ever been been right about anything? It's akin to throwing darts at a dartboard and seeing what (if anything) sticks.
No.
No.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Then the threads that say the PS4 or some versions of the PS4 can't support UHD blu-ray need to be changed also.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Several come to mind:
HTML5 in PS3
Browser desktop for PS3 and PS4 (Both use WebMAF webkit not Geiko)
Sony using Mono calling Gnome mobile initiative like webkit native libraries for it's commercial app framework (in the PS4 bootlog)
Sony using dbus, eGlib (Telepathy and more from Gnome)
Southbridge contains all the ARM IP moved out of the APU and it's a TEE
HDMI 2 with HDCP in Southbridge
Sony going to support Vidipath, DVR (cable and Antenna TV) & ATSC 2.0
More not proved yet like:
Key phrase voice turn-on (this is the reason the Camera and Mic have a custom port). It's a supported feature in Xtensa HiFi which is used for True Audio in AMD, PS4 and XB1.
UHD IPTV (DLNA 3) and 1080P Vidipath (DLNA 4 ) March 2016?
USB and Network drives supported
UHD Blu-ray October 2016?
UHD Blu-ray digital bridge March 2017?
ATSC 3.0 2018 in Korea?
endlessflood
Member
I can't believe that people refuse to believe that Sony will never decline to deny that the PS4 cannot ever not support the inability to not provide 4K playback. It blows my mind.
I'll run this through IBM Watson, and see what it thinks.
family_guy
Member
Don't think this will ever happen. Even if it does, this is as sad as people who waited for DLNA support on PS4. You know you're getting a half-assed solution, so just ante up the money and buy a dedicated 4K Blu-ray player. It will also have 4k streaming apps that the PS4 will most likely not have either.
I am given to understand that this statement may or may not possibly come to be proven to not necessarily always reflect acknowledged accuracy in total. This is an absolute.
jeff_rigby
Banned
No and neither does the XB1 but Microsoft announced HEVC profile 10 decode (Can support UHD IPTV and Blu-ray) and HEVC encode but no mention of the profile so it likely only supports 720P for games and 1080P for Skype.
Sony also didn't announce any UHD Blu-ray player at CES but did announce a 4K streaming service to start later this year and DVR support for some of it's UHD TVs using a USB drive first quarter 2016. That requires a guide from a server and once that is available and the PS3 and PS4 properly support Flags and DRM for Antenna TV and a Downloadable Security Schemes for Cable, it should happen in the US too.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Just pictures/photos in the PlayMemories App at the moment. There's an option that overrides the system's max 1080p setting.
This monitor only supports 30Hz with an HDMI (1.4) connection but I'm sure someone would've said by now if PS4 sync'd at 2160p60
Jeff is deadmeat from the old days.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
There should be a "jeff_rigby:" qualifier on all his thread titles so we know they're bullshit without having to click.
Ito already mentioned it can't read 3 layers-
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/2...ps4-for-ultra-hd-blu-ray/#PjLyJWlwfcYeRRQG.99
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/2...ps4-for-ultra-hd-blu-ray/#PjLyJWlwfcYeRRQG.99
jeff_rigby
Banned
Has everyone lost the ability to think? There is no cost difference between a version 1 and version 2 drive so why would a company still make a version 1 drive that won't be sellable. No OEM computer builder would be including a version 1 drive with Windows 10. So version 1 drives were dead sometime after 2010 and when specs were released to OEM builders for Windows 10 doubly so.
These are the types of disks the PS4 supports:
BD-R makes it a post 2010 drive = version 2 and Sony would have had to modify the firmware to not read recordable 4 layer.
Microsoft only supports BD-ROM on the XB1, again, with a version 2 BD-ROM drive they have to change the firmware to not allow BD-R
Edit: A 2008 blu-ray drive can read 4 layers with a firmware update but maybe not reliably. A change to the blu-ray specs with the BD-R whitepaper insured drives could reliably read 4 layers which made them version 2 drives.
I think PS4 will get an update to support Ultra by Sony.
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...nch-4k-streaming-service-in-us-this-year.html
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...nch-4k-streaming-service-in-us-this-year.html
JrBaconCheeseburger
Member
Whenever i see this thread bumped it always ends in disappointment.
Misleading Thread title
Misleading Thread title
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Can you honestly say this after reading the post prior to yours? No there hasn't been a official 4K on PS4 announcement but as of recent during the CES conference Sony has mentioned they would be rolling out a 4K streaming service in 2016. That is something you can be excited about and look forwad to knowing that someday you may be able to enjoy 4K content on your PS4, if not the PS4 then definitely your 4K tv.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Yes, that was the announced reason in an interview.
HEVC is integral to streaming 1080P because of caps and bandwidth limitations. Everyone will use the same HEVC 10 codec profile for 1080P that is used for UHD IPTV, Ultraviolet, Blu-ray and eventually 4K TV (ATSC 3.0). Sony needs this for Playstation Vue, Sony does not need the PS4 to stream 4k IPTV to their 4K TVs because they are all smart TVs and don't need it; storage for; DVR, HD & UHD Blu-ray digital bridge and DLNA serving home movies, pictures and music maybe. They need a central media hub to serve other TVs, phones and tablets too.
Since the codec is the same, the PS4 has a HDMI 2.0a port with a firmware update and a modern blu-ray drive can read three layers, only a minor firmware update is necessary to support UHD Blu-ray. This plus supporting 1080P TVs with ATSC 2.0 then 3.0 (Antenna TV) and new Cable TV features and whole home DVR for Antenna TV and Cable (Vidipath) make the PS4 more valuable.
Unknown Soldier
Member
4K/30 and 4K/24 is all you need for movies and other pre-recorded media. HDMI 1.4 has supported that since forever. There isn't any reason to output 4K/60 if you're not planning on having games being in 4K.
That said, you can output 4K/60 over HDMI 1.4 using 4:2:0 chroma subsampling and this is how gaming PCs with Nvidia cards output over HDMI to 4K displays which only have HDMI 1.4 or to the early 4K TVs which had HDMI 2.0a with 1.4 bandwidth only. Sony could implement that in the PS4 if they wanted it to output 4K/60 over HDMI 1.4 but there's still no point in doing it if you're not going to have games running in 4K.
None of this is germane to 4K Blu-ray of course. You need support for HDCP 2.2 over HDMI 2.0 to playback 4K Blu-ray. That rules out the current PS4, Sony could hypothetically release a "PS4 Slim" which revised hardware that includes a BD drive that can read the triple-layer 4K BD-ROMs and an HDMI 2.0a transmitter. Maybe they'll announce that when they announce their 4K Blu-ray players which were so conspicuously absent at CES. I think only Samsung bothered to announce a 4K Blu-ray player there, everyone else at CES was mum.
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
I heard that some companies like LG were showing off 8K tv's. I know they were a thing before but it looks like they might be taking off more this year. I think these kinds of TV@s will have to rely on streaming, which sucks for me, as I like certain films to be on disk, for the best quality.
I dont think the ps4 would makea good 4k player. it's far too loud and it wouldnt take off with the videophiles of the world.
Showing off 8k TVs doesn't mean much. It just means they can make them in limited quantity and unannounced obscene prices. 4k will be the consumer focus for at least the next 5 years because even if they wanted to the connectivity, media, and streaming bandwidth isn't really there. Nor are the economics.
After the Blu-ray/HD-DVD format war and the failure of 3D tvs the CE companies are gonna milk the shit out of 4k for as long as they can before tempting another upgrade.
jeff_rigby
Banned
HDMI 2 doesn't even rule out the PS3 as it can support HDMI 2's multicast and serve HDCP 2.2 media over the LAN and the 4K TV accepts it then treats it as HDMI 2. What rules out the PS3 as a 4K blu-ray player is the version 1 drive. Sony will not break the console model and provide a enhanced PS3 with version 2 drives. If you assume they will break the console model with the PS4 then why not the PS3?
ALL modern BD-ROM drives (after 2010) are version 2 drives that can read BDXL and UHD disks. There is no such thing as a UHD disk physical format, it's a 2 or 3 layer blu-ray disk and the media is the only thing that makes it a HD or UHD disk. The Blu-ray association has licensed UHD media testing for game consoles.
I presented a big argument and a quote from Sony that the PS4 supports HDMI 2.
The PS4 custom HDMI chip supports the faster clock and programmable dividers for HDMI 2 and just passes through HDCP negotiations to Southbridge. All other features remain the same. Edit: The PS4 has a custom HDMI port to support VR with up to 120 FPS, it would have taken very little to include support for HDMI 2.0a and even High Frame Rate which will also be used for IPTV sporting events.
OfficerZap
Neo Member
Thanks for the updates, Jeff.
Guys, if you don't agree with what's being said, that's fine. If you have contrary evidence that's great too.
If you're just going to shitpost a guy and make personal attacks, why not keep it to yourself and not shit up an interesting thread?
Guys, if you don't agree with what's being said, that's fine. If you have contrary evidence that's great too.
If you're just going to shitpost a guy and make personal attacks, why not keep it to yourself and not shit up an interesting thread?
mario_O
Member
I agree. But the thread title should be changed a little.
jeff_rigby
Banned
I would love logical arguments for or against and anyone who brings information pro or con to the thread is appreciated. If anyone thinks they can give a better easier to understand summary, go for it, that will be appreciated also. For instance the Licencing of a UHD blu-ray test player for game consoles could be for the Nintendo NX not the XB1 or PS4 but Nintendo, in the past, never supported a blu-ray player. You can say the same about Microsoft and the Xbox 360 but they did support a HD format disk just as an accessory.
You could argue that the Sony patent for a version 2 drive requires being able to process inverted track information and modern blu-ray drives can read 3 or 4 layers but can't read inverted track without I think a firmware update. But notice that the UHD Licencing for Game consoles doesn't mention the drive while it does mention a licence for the PC drive?
Androvsky brought to our attention that the on-line Manuel for the PS4 says it supports CD disks but it doesn't yet and I've read Windows 10 and several coming platforms like the new Funai- Magnavox DVR supports ripping music CDs and it also supports streaming to Android (includes TVs) and iOS. Microsoft shipped a Playready ND porting kit for iOS and Android October 2013. I say this because I think CD support is coming and previous posts indicate similar to Magnavox DVR media updates are coming for the PS3, PS4 and XB1.
PS4 is silent when playing media. the only time I hear my PS4 is when it starts up & when I start a game up but after the game load up I don't hear it anymore.
Sony already know that most of the 4K TVs in people homes will not be Sony so having Ultra streamed to PS4 & other media players would be the smartest thing to do.
Also Sony know that this is the Netflix & Kodi era & even though the high end 4K owners might want their movies on UHD Blu-ray it's going to be a small number compared to the people who will just get the content anyway they can.
Sadly a lot of people will get 4K TVs just because it's the new thing that they have been hearing about & think that everything is 4K just because the TV is 4K.
i am sure they will come out before movies start coming.
I heard it is because the chipset they plan to use is not ready yet...
Clockwork
Member
The problem I have with jeff_rigby threads is this...
Although they contain a lot of technical info/details, the way that the OP connects the dots is largely based on speculation and assumptions. (i.e. this hardware component is capable of such and such so it's a foregone conclusion that it will be implemented/exposed). For various reasons (both business and technical) we know that this isn't always (and usually isn't) the case. That these are usually posted so matter-of-factly compounds the issue even more. Take the title of this very thread for example...
I'm not sure that expressing this is shitposting.
UHD BluRay discs and players can't come soon enough.
I understand that Sony announced an online store for 4K content. I hope they understand that enthusiasts such as myself with download caps and a penchant for quality and convenience continue to demand physical media.
If they're releasing a turn table in 2016 then surely all our PS4s will be updated to accept UHD Bluray also. This will go a long way toward ensuring the format's success.
I understand that Sony announced an online store for 4K content. I hope they understand that enthusiasts such as myself with download caps and a penchant for quality and convenience continue to demand physical media.
If they're releasing a turn table in 2016 then surely all our PS4s will be updated to accept UHD Bluray also. This will go a long way toward ensuring the format's success.
I'm not sure if Blu-ray is more convenient than streaming/downloading now.
If you have networked storage you could play your movies on any device in your house & even when you are not at home without having to get up to insert a disc.
jeff_rigby
Banned
That's why both Fox and Sony studios want a blu-ray digital bridge. They want the same functionality in the home that Ultraviolet gives consumers.
RE: Clockwork criticism and questions for Clockwork to get us on the same page.
There is evidence of a license for a game console UHD test player. Is it your opinion that this does not indicate the PS4 will support UHD blu-ray but the XB1 will? If this is the case and they were released at nearly the same time then how did Microsoft get a UHD drive and Sony didn't? Or do you feel that Sony is not supporting HEVC profile 10 while it has been announced by Microsoft that they will and it can be used by Netflix?
Do you believe the XB1 will support UHD IPTV; yes or no?
Do you believe the XB1 will support UHD blu-ray; yes or no?
Do you understand that there is no such thing as a UHD drive; yes or no? Give reasons if no.
Do you understand that inverted track information still contains the 0's and 1's and only firmware changes are needed to treat 1's as 0's and 0's as 1's; yes or no?
Do you understand that the HEVC codec is the same for IPTV, blu-ray and Ultraviolet.
Do you understand that the C-ENC (low level DRM) is the same for IPTV, Ultraviolet and UHD Digital bridge.
The point of the above is that if a platform supports UHD IPTV it can support the others.
I repeat, there is overwhelming evidence that the XB1 can support UHD blu-ray with just a firmware update. If the PS4 doesn't there will be a shit-storm. Microsoft and Sony are co-operating with each other (microsoft-sony.com). This can be just the DRMs Playready and Playready ND but that added to the PDFs sent to the FCC DSTAC would have the XB1 (confirmed) and PS4 supporting a DVR for antenna and cable TV in the US with support for ATSC 2.0 features; only the HEVC codec would be needed to support ATSC 3.0 and that is the same as UHD blu-ray, IPTV, Ultraviolet and the digital bridge.
Do you understand that an effort has been made by everyone to support standards?
HTML5 <video> with W3C extensions contains the software stack to support ATSC 2 and 3 as well as Vidipath, UHD blu-ray, IPTV, Ultraviolet and digital bridge.
Do you understand what the above imply during the life of the XB1 and PS4? (ATSC 2 now, ATSC 3 by 2018 with switch over by 2020) I won't have any 4K TVs so I will need a STB to convert from 4K (ATSC 3) to 1080P. I only have one smart TV so all the others will need a STB for ATSC 2 and it's HTML5 features. STB = PS4, PS3 and XB1
Do you understand that the FCC selling TV spectrum will force an early turnover?
Do you understand that the FCC selling TV spectrum to Cell phones and ATSC 3 create a market for Phones to support TV and Video and advertisers consider this the next big market?
Do you understand that the same standards being used by the PS4 and XB1 to support media are used in phones including the DRM.
Do you understand that Sony using Android TV in their UHD TVs is smart because they will be using Android TV in their UHD phones for ATSC 3?
I expect you will not want to answer the above. How can I find where you go off track? IF you have read all my posts and links the above is easy to answer. You will give an excuse that amounts to "its not my job" and I'm not making absolute statements so I don't have anything to defend. If you are saying I'm wrong then that is a statement that needs support beyond "all the evidence means nothing because it's not always used"
If this were a puzzle, it's long past the point where we can recognize the picture provided one can see. This also explains both Microsoft and Sony buying networks/movie/tv studios and Phone companies (Nokia for Microsoft and Erickson for Sony) and keeping them despite their loosing money.
The phone is the key to everything: Microsoft now owns Nokia's device business
Adam Tyner
Member
A "shitstorm"? Over a format doomed to little-to-no commercial significance?
I'm as interested in Ultra HD Blu-ray as anyone, but it's barely going to make a ripple.
jeff_rigby
Banned
I was thinking of the typical console war types and Press who stir them up for clicks. Beyond that if the PS4 can't support UHD blu-ray, it can't support UHD IPTV including 1080P with HEVC which in the short term (Playstation Vue) is necessary because of Caps, Ultraviolet and ATSC 3.0. That makes the console dead, as far as media is concerned and we know that one of the major features of a Game Console to "Own" the living room is media. Was Patcher correct?
I don't think so because Sony will be using Embedded Playready in the PS3 and PS4 and I quoted teardowns where both the XB1 and PS4 have a openCL block (Xtensa DSP processor) separate from the AMD APU. Xtensa is confirmed for the XB1 as AMD says they use the same hardware for HEVC that the XB1 uses and UVD in AMD APUs is a Xtensa DPU which is also used for Audio. For the PS4 it's an assumption because they also use Xtensa DPUs for TrueAudio and if you want to use the codec libraries from Cadence then you must use Xtensa for both audio and video. Second, a Xtensa DSP can be used for vision processing and is up to 20X more efficient at Codecs and vision processing than a GPU or CPU.http://bgr.com/2013/03/13/xbox-720-sales-wedbush-371367/ said:
I posted the above because the HEVC codec in the PS4 should be the topic if you question the PS4 as a UHD Blu-ray player not the drive as it's a non-issue; a modern standard blu-ray drive can support a three layer disk....this is by design not accident as is using HTML5 <video> with W3C extensions and the same HEVC profile.
Now as to business reasons for Sony timing to release HEVC for use by Netflix, Playstation Vue or UHD Blu-ray, they won't do so unless it benefits them, same for DVR features which require them to support ROVI TV guides from regional servers or at least a mechanism to collect regional information on Antenna TV and Cable TV programming. The timing for this is harder to guess but Sony has announced that their UHD TVs will support DVR in the EU via a USB Hard Disk with dates slipping from 6 months ago till the latest Feb-March. The US, in the past, because of the FCC requirement for a cable card couldn't support the same for cable TV and any platform that has Network or Hard Disk support needed to properly comply with Antenna TV flags (DRM) which Android TV with the HTML5 <video> MSE EME (Playready & others) does. Microsoft's XB1 has announced 1080P antenna TV DVR support which is ATSC 2.0 which also now includes DRM as a feature as does ATSC 3.0. The XB1, PS4 and PS3 are going to support HTML5 <video> MSE EME with Playready so all should support DVR.
Microsoft has not announced (except from leaks for Playready porting kit 3 training) that they will support UHD blu-ray for Windows 10 but they announced HEVC support and they only announced XB1 HEVC profile 10 for use by Netflix as an example. This supports UHD IPTV or HEVC used to deliver 1080P coming first. AMD specs for Polaris GPUs include everything needed for the most advanced version of IPTV or UHD blu-ray but they won't be released till the middle of 2016.
The multimedia war is one that Xbox One & PS4 will just have to play their part in & try to keep up because every year there is going to be a newer multimedia box that's smaller & have more / better features than the consoles for multimedia.
I think PS4 will get an update to support Ultra by Sony.
There goes down my next Xbox name guess. Xbox Ultra. Have to make up a new fake name.
There's a lot of technical detail talk from the OP and he seems to know his stuff... that said, while the PS4 may be capable of supporting UHD Bluray it's still a matter of SCE flipping that switch.
Some questions:
I read something in here about a custom HDMI port on the PS4 to support 120fps, where is that exactly?
What year is this? People talking about 8K TVs being shown off at CES, and Sony launching a 4K content service. Pretty sure all of that is a couple years old by now. Sony had a 4K movie storage device that was expensive and circular, before the PS4 was revealed. Many assumed that that service would come to PS4, but talk about PS4 and 4K quickly vanished after the February reveal.
Would it not make sense for Sony to just parade around the fact that the PS4 is a UHD friendly device and that people can just use it for all this cool stuff? Just seems weird if the larger company Sony is proclaiming UHD 4K this and that, yet won't also include their very successful PS4 in the mix of that conversation.
Some questions:
I read something in here about a custom HDMI port on the PS4 to support 120fps, where is that exactly?
What year is this? People talking about 8K TVs being shown off at CES, and Sony launching a 4K content service. Pretty sure all of that is a couple years old by now. Sony had a 4K movie storage device that was expensive and circular, before the PS4 was revealed. Many assumed that that service would come to PS4, but talk about PS4 and 4K quickly vanished after the February reveal.
Would it not make sense for Sony to just parade around the fact that the PS4 is a UHD friendly device and that people can just use it for all this cool stuff? Just seems weird if the larger company Sony is proclaiming UHD 4K this and that, yet won't also include their very successful PS4 in the mix of that conversation.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Good points I'll discuss them one by one:
Sony has confirmed the PS4 HDMI port supports up to 120 FPS (maybe more) for VR and the bespoke GPGPU hardware in southbridge can support openGL or openCV or openVX calls and can process incoming camera (Vision processing) and outgoing video for VR glasses. UHD blu-ray is required to downscale UHD to HD and many upscale HD to UHD. If it supports HDR and HFR then it can support 120 FPS 4K. So high end UHD blu-ray players likely have the hardware to support some form of VR and projects have been in the works for this. The hardware for VR and Codecs in the PS4 can also be used for UHD blu-ray or visa versa.
Museum Collections Enter VR With The Launch Of The Woofbert VR App For Samsung Gear
I posted that there was much talk before launch of 4K and confirmation for the XB1 supporting 4K blu-ray and the PS4 supporting 4K but NOTHING since 2013 except a denial by Ito when he was put on the spot by a very well respected hardware reviewer who also believed the PS4 would support 4K blu-ray and that the drive should be able to support 3 layers. Why...I suspect a NDA. Microsoft has not mentioned UHD blu-ray support for the XB1 or Windows 10 except in technical training. They went out of their way to mention the HEVC profile 10 codec coming for the XB1 can be used for Netflix but don't mention that the same profile is used for UHD Blu-ray.
Androvsky put forward a theory that Sony and Microsoft will keep silent in the short term to allow Samsung and others to sell their players for near $500 knowing that economy of scale should allow the players to sell for $300 or less by the end of 2016. Microsoft 10 OEM computers at $600 as well as PS4 and XB1 at $369 can be 4K blu-ray players and they offer much more value for the same price. If they don't do this then 4K adoption may suffer.
Panasonic and Sony have delayed a release and Panasonic says they are waiting for a one chip (cheaper) solution. Also Windows 10 OEM computers will have the hardware (Polaris dGPU by mid 2016) to support streaming 4K blu-ray movies to other platforms in the home with a Playready ND porting kit to iOS and Android shipped October 2013. I believe the XB1 and PS4 have this ability also.
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