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UHD Blu-ray Game Consoles shipped in 2013

J

jeff_rigby

Banned
herod said:
Microsoft are now actively marketing the Xbox One S as having a UHD Bluray drive. Therefore we can conclude that they cannot or will not upgrade the drive in the Xbox One, because doing so AFTER encouraging preorders for this device would be an enormous PR own goal.
Click to expand...
So they support all other UHD media except for UHD Blu-ray. This is possible but I still think unlikely. They have an out in that the XB1 slim will be the first UHD blu-ray player.

I think there are some other benefits to the Slim like slightly better performance, more HDMI 2 features, blu-tooth and Wifi support and possibly more. We could see increased Hard Disk speed and features/accessories coming for the LAN port.

If Adam can make a case for a break between the Launch and Slim, the above breaking the console model is also possible.
 
A

Adam Tyner

Member
Jeff: are you not going to respond to anything in my lengthy post from last night?

jeff_rigby said:
If Adam can make a case for a break between the Launch and Slim, the above breaking the console model is also possible.
Click to expand...
To my mind, completely digital features wouldn't break anything. As I've said repeatedly now, that wouldn't be any different than the iOS store knowing what hardware you have and hiding/revealing options accordingly.

It's not established that the launch XB1 can handle UHD media, streaming or otherwise. Phil Spencer's comments about the S indicate that it's not:

With upgrading the HDMI technology in the box, we're able to support 4K video streaming.
Click to expand...

It may be something that's possible but not worth the time/effort to their estimation. They may prefer to reserve that functionality for new hardware instead.

Other than being able to charge a premium for downloading movies in UHD rather than HD, I don't see what Microsoft would stand to gain financially from supporting UHD media in the launch Xbox One anyway.
 
P

Parham

Banned
Jeff, at what point will you concede that the current consoles on the market will not be updated via firmware to play UHD Blu-rays? How many more days,weeks, or months until this is settled? Right now, you seem to imply it could happen any time between now and the heat death of the universe.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Parham said:
Jeff, at what point will you concede that the current consoles on the market will not be updated via firmware to play UHD Blu-rays? How many more days,weeks, or months until this is settled? Right now, you seem to imply it could happen any time between now and the heat death of the universe.
Click to expand...

Given his enduring confidence, I imagine that inertia would just eventually result in "The PS4 and X1 will be updated to support UHD BDs" changing to "The PS4 and X1 could have been updated to support UHD BDs".
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
Parham said:
Jeff, at what point will you concede that the current consoles on the market will not be updated via firmware to play UHD Blu-rays? How many more days,weeks, or months until this is settled? Right now, you seem to imply it could happen any time between now and the heat death of the universe.
Click to expand...

PS4 firmware update 4.0 this August (8th month) or October should enable UHD media, ooVoo, HTML5 <video> MSE EME in the browser, ALL third party apps rewritten to use the the PS4 software stack, File dialog boxes from the browser (a more open PS4), Vidipath and full DLNA support from southbridge with likely network standby, CD support, Dolby digital audio from the Media player for music and more.

PS4 plus firmware 4.0
4 + 4 = 8

Eight (&#20843; hachi, ya?) is also considered a lucky number in Japan, but the reason is different from that in Chinese culture. Eight gives an idea of growing prosperous, because the letter (&#20843;) broadens gradually.
The Japanese thought eight (&#12420; ya?) as a holy number in the ancient times.

The number eight is considered to be a lucky number in Chinese and other Asian cultures.[6] Eight (&#20843;; accounting &#25420;; pinyin b&#257;) is considered a lucky number in Chinese culture because it sounds like the word meaning to generate wealth (&#30332;(T) &#21457;(S); Pinyin: f&#257;). Property with the number 8 may be valued greatly by Chinese. For example, a Hong Kong number plate with the number 8 was sold for $640,000.[7] The opening ceremony of the Summer Olympics in Beijing started at 8 seconds and 8 minutes past 8 pm (local time) on 8 August 2008.[8]
Click to expand...
 
O

old manatee

Banned
jeff_rigby said:
PS4 firmware update 4.0 this October should enable UHD media, ooVoo, HTML5 <video> MSE EME in the browser, ALL third party apps rewritten to use the the PS4 software stack, File dialog boxes from the browser (a more open PS4), Vidipath and full DLNA support from southbridge with likely network standby, CD support, Dolby digital audio from the Media player for music and more.

PS4 plus firmware 4.0
4 + 4 = 8
Click to expand...


It all adds up.
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
sammyCYBORG said:
Jeff I honestly think you need to talk to a professional. Genuine advice.
Click to expand...
Need more of it in my life, I'm up $**,000 in the last month betting on my insanity. I expect another $**,000 in August or October. I've put my money where my research indicated.

I really do smile and shake my head at the posts in this thread <grin>.
 
A

Adam Tyner

Member
jeff_rigby said:
I really do smile and shake my head at the posts in this thread <grin>.
Click to expand...
The thread you started yet whose subject you've already backpedaled away from? Why does that make you grin?

From your refusal to reply to my post from yesterday, I guess you don't have any more arrows in your quiver?
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
jeff_rigby said:
So Stinkles is a software development manager and writer not involved with the hardware beyond he should have advance notice of the Slim and maybe Scorpio hardware as it relates to games not media. Microsoft LOCKED down interdepartmental communication to reduce leaks (this from insiders late 2012) and Sony is noted for their ability to keep secrets.

Actually Adam hasn't. He assumes the 2015 PS4 version won't support UHD because the 2013 doesn't and a hard break is necessary to not confuse consumers so UHD starts with the NEO and Scorpio while the XB1 Slim defeats his point. The Slim is Microsoft's 2015 refresh shipping in August 2016 rather than Nov 2015 because the refresh required a complete redesign of the APU while the Sony 2015 refresh was a move to Global foundries and Southbridge update which was easier and could happen sooner and cheaper.

He assumes UHD Game disks will never be released because of Sony and Microsoft restrictions on Game support for all versions of the XB1 and PS4. This BDA rule and listing covering UHD Game media disks make no sense if they only apply to the 2019 iteration or next generation console which will also be backwardly compatible and should also follow the same rules except for games designed to only run on the new console.

You guys fail to see these flaws for some reason and it's getting to the point that you are stretching reason while attributing this to me.


IF this is not the case please cite.
Click to expand...


Hi Jeff, you're right, I don't work in the hardware group, but I am an enthusiastic AV fan - like yourself. I understand the tech, software, firmware, optical drives, DSPs, GPU overhead, HDMI paths and restrictions and much, much more.

And the original Xbox One still can't play UHD/4K native discs without significant changes to the hardware, software and firmware.

Good news is that you will see what some of those were in August when the Xbox One S ships.
 
H

herod

Member
jeff_rigby said:
PS4 firmware update 4.0 this August (8th month) or October should enable UHD media, ooVoo, HTML5 <video> MSE EME in the browser, ALL third party apps rewritten to use the the PS4 software stack, File dialog boxes from the browser (a more open PS4), Vidipath and full DLNA support from southbridge with likely network standby, CD support, Dolby digital audio from the Media player for music and more.

PS4 plus firmware 4.0
4 + 4 = 8
Click to expand...
Now I know you're trolling us.
 
C

c0de

Member
hirokazu said:
I feel like jeff_rigby just overwhelms people with technical documents and jargon from them that most people just back away and take his word for it. And then it turns out his knowledge is not much different from people seeing shapes in clouds or constellations and making prophecies from them.
Click to expand...

Well, it's only gibberish. There is no real connection between all what he is saying, things are at best loosely connected.
But the worst is that he isn't even able to provide a comprehensive reasoning at all, states opinions as facts and his predictions are so wrong that he shouldn't rely on making bets for his income.
 
C

c0de

Member
Stinkles said:
Hi Jeff, you're right, I don't work in the hardware group, but I am an enthusiastic AV fan - like yourself. I understand the tech, software, firmware, optical drives, DSPs, GPU overhead, HDMI paths and restrictions and much, much more.

And the original Xbox One still can't play UHD/4K native discs without significant changes to the hardware, software and firmware.

Good news is that you will see what some of those were in August when the One S ships.
Click to expand...

Hi, perhaps you can tell us if the 4k stuff is done on a dedicated chip or if it uses the apu for decoding 4k video streams?
 
P

Parham

Banned
jeff_rigby said:
PS4 firmware update 4.0 this August (8th month) or October should enable UHD media, ooVoo, HTML5 <video> MSE EME in the browser, ALL third party apps rewritten to use the the PS4 software stack, File dialog boxes from the browser (a more open PS4), Vidipath and full DLNA support from southbridge with likely network standby, CD support, Dolby digital audio from the Media player for music and more.

PS4 plus firmware 4.0
4 + 4 = 8
Click to expand...
Alright, so it's settled. We will know definitively one way or another by 4.0.
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
c0de said:
Hi, perhaps you can tell us if the 4k stuff is done on a dedicated chip or if it uses the apu for decoding 4k video streams?
Click to expand...
The answer to a question worded that way will be misleading. Better questions are:

what does the XB1 launch use for HEVC and then HDCP2.2?
What will they use for OpenVX?
Whose IP is used for the 15 dedicated blocks and on what bus?
Why did Microsoft not use GDDR5 like Sony?

And please cite if you can.
 
Jinfash

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
jeff_rigby said:
PS4 firmware update 4.0 this August (8th month) or October should enable UHD media, ooVoo, HTML5 <video> MSE EME in the browser, ALL third party apps rewritten to use the the PS4 software stack, File dialog boxes from the browser (a more open PS4), Vidipath and full DLNA support from southbridge with likely network standby, CD support, Dolby digital audio from the Media player for music and more.

PS4 plus firmware 4.0
4 + 4 = 8
Click to expand...

What about R + L = J?
 
C

c0de

Member
jeff_rigby said:
The answer to a question worded that way will be misleading.
Click to expand...

I can live with that.

Better questions are:
Click to expand...

I doubt they are better.

what does the XB1 launch use for HEVC and then HDCP2.2?
Click to expand...

In which case to they decode HEVC and when do they use HDCP2.2?

What will they use for OpenVX?
Click to expand...

Why would they?

Whose IP is used for the 15 dedicated blocks and on what bus?
Click to expand...

How does that matter at all?

Why did Microsoft not use GDDR5 like Sony?
Click to expand...

Because MS designed the console around 8 GB of RAM in the very beginning.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
Cider X said:
How is this thread not locked yet?
Click to expand...

Mods are waiting for the PHP certificate to be aproved at the HTML/JAVA convention where the new forum thread closing standards are to be approved. You can't close it now, but the capability of closing it has been there since 2010, they just need to update the forum's firmware to be HFC complacent. Then, full closing support is sure to ensue once the server's southbridge is reached.
 
M

Magwik

Banned
BernardoOne said:
Mods are waiting for the PHP certificate to be aproved at the HTML/JAVA convention where the new forum thread closing standards are to be approved. You can't close it now, but the capability of closing it has been there since 2010, they just need to update the forum's firmware to be HFC complacent. Then, full closing support is sure to ensue once the server's southbridge is reached.
Click to expand...
10/10
 
G

Gestault

Member
I just put a UHD disc (The Revenant) in both my PS4 and XB1. It didn't work. Jeff, when would it be reasonable to expect that to change?
 
G

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
jeff plz

Stinkles said:
That only means that I am part of the conspiracy or have myself been fooled by it.
Click to expand...

4XCy7XE.png
 
J

jvm

Gamasutra.
Stinkles said:
Well you just conceded.

Even if that were the only hardware item, and it's not, that would be the end of it .

You are now Tim Langdell to my Edge Magazine.

Xbox, Record that.
Click to expand...
I just want to say...

...that is an awesome line. Well played, Stinkles. Well played.

:)
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
Stinkles said:
Well you just conceded.

Even if that were the only hardware item, and it's not, that would be the end of it .

You are now Tim Langdell to my Edge Magazine.

Xbox, Record that.
Click to expand...
For vetting purposes could you answer the following:

What does the XB1 launch use for HEVC and then HDCP2.2?
What will they use for OpenVX?
Whose IP is used for the 15 dedicated blocks and on what bus?
Why did Microsoft not use GDDR5 like Sony?
Why does do the special blocks dictate the memory XB1 Scorpio uses?

And please cite if you can.


1) Microsoft 2012 working on HEVC

CGl7TEqUIAITgCS.png


2) Testbeds running HEVC multi-cast on XB1 before launch and "The XB1 is capable of pushing and receiving 4K signals. I.E. the XB1 is fully UHD capable.

CGsA2bsVIAA4gY3.png:large


3) Microsoft announcing HEVC profile 10 June 2015 a year ago, the standard to be used by ALL UHD media.

Last Friday, Major Nelson announced on twitter a small update for the Xbox One that would have no new features or content, but &#8220;just a few behind the scenes changes to prepare for the future.&#8221;
Click to expand...
(Windows 10) So UHD is coming in the future with a nearly complete OS update for/to Windows 10.

10-bit HD High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) platform support added

10-bit HD HEVC enables video streaming apps, like NetFlix, to use lower bandwidth to deliver HD quality video streams. 10-bit Ultra color increases the video color precision from 8-bits to 10-bits &#8211; with 8-bits you only get 16 million colors, but with 10-bit Ultra color precision you get 1 billion life-like colors that makes your video more vibrant.
Click to expand...
This can be used to lower the bandwidth of Netflix with 1080P media but no 1080P media supports 10 bit. Only 4K media supports 10 bit.

4) The XB1 can decode and encode using the HEVC codec while PCs until recently can only decode.

Slide%2038%20-%20Win%2010%20Acceleration.png


Add the above to the two letters stating that the launch XB1 and PS4 will be firmware updated to support UHD and all XB1 and PS4 are UHD capable.

UHD Blu-ray Game Consoles shipped in 2013 but won't be firmware updated to support it till 2016.

There is a second paper naming both the XB1 and PS4 as UHD game consoles. http://www.eceee.org/static/media/u.../games-consoles-va-letter-to-stakeholders.pdf The PS3 and Xbox 360 are labeled as HD.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156790-xbox-one-and-ps4-analyzing-their-support-for-4k-video-and-gaming said:
When asked about 4K support, Microsoft&#8217;s Corporate Vice President of Marketing, Strategy and Interactive Entertainment Business Yusuf Mehdi, told Forbes that &#8220;The video and interface portions, absolutely. Games developed for 1080p will run at 1080p, obviously.&#8221; It will support up to 4K at launch for things like Blu-ray, but what about later? &#8220;There&#8217;s no hardware restriction there at all.&#8221;
Click to expand...
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
The first letter (well, document) doesn't support your supposition whatsoever as all of the relevant data needs to be filled out, and it's quite obvious that the PS4 and X1 are labelled as having the "potential" to render 4K video in the second letter as HDMI 1.4 supports up to 4K. There's also the amusing fact that you're quick to dismiss Stinkles' comments with the rationalisation of "He's not an Xbox hardware developer" yet more than happy to take Emmanouil Patavos' at face value even though he's about as far removed as they come. In fewer words, what you're exhibiting isn't a pair of smoking guns but rather a clear-cut case of confirmation bias.
 
A

AmyS

Member
You wanna play Ultra HD Blu-ray movies on a game console?

Buy an Xbox One S, or a PS4 Neo, or wait for Project Scorpio.

/thread.
 
W

warheat

Member
The original PSX can play bluray, I mean the bluray fit in the drive so it's possible. The problem is Sony won't allow this because they want to sell a new hardware.

Bluray console shipped in 1994
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
JaseC said:
The first "letter" doesn't support your supposition whatsoever as all of the relevant data needs to be filled out, and it's quite obvious that the PS4 and X1 are labelled as having the "potential" to render 4K video in the second letter as HDMI 1.4 supports up to 4K. There's also the amusing fact that you're quick to dismiss Stinkles' comments with the rationalisation of "He's not an Xbox hardware developer" yet more than happy to take Emmanouil Patavos' at face value even though he's about as far removed as they come. In fewer words, what you're exhibiting isn't a pair of smoking guns but rather a clear-cut case of confirmation bias.
Click to expand...

http://www.eceee.org/static/media/u.../games-consoles-va-letter-to-stakeholders.pdf

The PS3 HDMI 1.4 can also support the exact same 4K via HDMI 1.4 but the PS3 is labeled as HD not UHD.

https://ec.europa.eu/energy/sites/e...les Self-Regulatory Initiative V1 - Final.pdf page 10

The first letter has Power tiers for navigation and Media power modes,

Navigation:

High Definition Consoles Jan 2014 90 watts
Ultra-High Definition Consoles Jan 2014 90 watts

Both HD and UHD consoles EXIST in 2014 and have the same voluntary power.

Media power modes:

HD Console from January 2014 90 watts
UHD console from January 2014 ------
HD console from January 2016 ------
UHD Console from January 2016 90 watts

UHD starts 2016

You are so rigidly stuck in your assumptions that you are not thinking this through.
 
M

MaLDo

Member
jeff_rigby said:
So they support all other UHD media except for UHD Blu-ray. This is possible but I still think unlikely. They have an out in that the XB1 slim will be the first UHD blu-ray player.

I think there are some other benefits to the Slim like slightly better performance, more HDMI 2 features, blu-tooth and Wifi support and possibly more. We could see increased Hard Disk speed and features/accessories coming for the LAN port.

If Adam can make a case for a break between the Launch and Slim, the above breaking the console model is also possible.
Click to expand...

blu-tooth.

Oh boy.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
jeff_rigby said:
http://www.eceee.org/static/media/u.../games-consoles-va-letter-to-stakeholders.pdf

The PS3 HDMI 1.4 can also support the exact same 4K via HDMI 1.4 but the PS3 is labeled as HD not UHD.
Click to expand...

None of the PS3s actually have HDMI 1.4 ports. They're all 1.3a, or at least the earlier units are, which rules out the PS3 being broadly labelled as having the potential for 4K. You're undoubtedly thinking of the 3D BD firmware update, but that only implemented support for 3D and nothing else of the HDMI 1.4 spec. HDMI 1.4 wasn't even a thing until mid-2009.

You are so rigidly stuck in your assumptions that you are not thinking this through.
Click to expand...

"I'm smart and you're dumb." Classy.
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
-ImaginaryInsider said:
Just so you know what you're up against Stinkles...

Jeff Rigby was an industry professional in the 1980's.

*cue Miami Vice music*
Click to expand...
Yes I was a partner in Intersect software and we wrote Interlink, a BBS prograrm, Music construction set for the Atari ST and Revolver which combined features we could have made million if we had pursued PC applications.

We attended multiple Comdex shows, were invited to the Canadian Embassy, were invited to several parties where Fleetwood Mac and the Beach Boys attended, Met the primary for Electronics Arts at one of the parties where he offered to buy what became Music Construction set for the ST. Staffed the Atari booth and answered questions on hardware and software.

I handled the business and hardware end and published several papers on how to upgrade the hardware. At the time I was also a SYSOP (MOD) on Compuserve and Genie which were the precursors to the "Internet".

Since all the above were the middle of the 80's and technology has advanced I did not think it matters.
 
B

BHK3

Banned
herod said:
Now I know you're trolling us.
Click to expand...
He's been at this for a very long time.

Jeff says there will be a significant PS3 update back in 2014.

4+4=8. 3+5=8. "A technological shift" - Jeff Rigby

Game consoles are dead

"You know rigby your theories take a long time to come true". "I know, this is a common problem for me. I made this thread 3 years ago because reasons. Here's a source from 2001 proving my point tho. Ignore my thread getting locked for reasons of being accused of blogging". .

I don't even want to dig up him talking about the PS3's internet browser for years on end, as someone who mastered the use of the that feature it pained me to read his crockpot posts. Nonsense about facebook, giant upgrades as usual(don't think the man has ever heard of a smartphone, probably waiting for the HD update for his nokia) for something no one really used, the internet browser being the key to winning the console race. I would love to know what fuels this guy.
 
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