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Halo: Reach Beta Thread

E

EazyB

Banned
For the new page:

In the name of science I conducted a few controlled experiments with the reticule bloom to test the extent of the randomness it produces, specifically it landing hits when the reticule is not on the player.

Here's the films of the 4 games I played, no one should bother rendering them as they're long and the purpose is to see the reticule, furthermore it's much easier to see where each shot lands by viewing it in theater and slowing it down.
1
2
3
4

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about. This is the shot that kills the player:
2lbjm7d.jpg


The reason it did so is because the bloomed reticule made the bullet land in a random location within this greater radius:
29gehwl.jpg


This bloom adds too much randomness in the gunplay for my liking and adds more frustration than fun or skill.
 
D

DeadFalling

Member
Hydranockz said:
No. Man, that beast had fear eminating from it like.
Click to expand...

This. The strong glow on the sword itself and directly around it (rather than the odd clear sword we have in Reach that just puts off light in your general area) gives it that 'ohmyfuckrunrunrun' factor. :lol
 
S

Striker

Member
Halo 1's Plasma Sword had such an intimating presence. Maybe it was because I/we never saw it before, or that a Gold Elite is using it in the dark hallways, but it just stood out much more than Halo 2-present day.
 
S

Sai

Member
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=12064821&player=SaiST
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=12082910&player=SaiST

Good times~.. Especially that second one. The Energy Sword + Evade can be so cheap, it's delicious.

Gonna try to get these rendered before everything's taken offline.

randomlyrossy said:
It seems much bigger too, like an actual sword. That coupled with the bitchin' glow just make it look much cooler to me.
Click to expand...
I don't think it was any larger, probably just the glow/energy field playin' tricks on you.
 
F

FunkyMunkey

Banned
EazyB said:
For the new page:

In the name of science I conducted a few controlled experiments with the reticule bloom to test the extent of the randomness it produces, specifically it landing hits when the reticule is not on the player.

Here's the films of the 4 games I played, no one should bother rendering them as they're long and the purpose is to see the reticule, furthermore it's much easier to see where each shot lands by viewing it in theater and slowing it down.
1
2
3
4

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about. This is the shot that kills the player:
2lbjm7d.jpg


The reason it did so is because the bloomed reticule made the bullet land in a random location within this greater radius:
29gehwl.jpg


This bloom adds too much randomness in the gunplay for my liking and adds more frustration than fun or skill.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU.

Please post more of this. The whole reticule bloom thing is so much bullshit, I can't even understand why Bungie would want to shit around with a great Halo formula. And meanwhile mess with everything else and go "whelp, hope it works lol!".

Oh yeah, and Invasion is completely broken with the current vehicle health and damage situation. I almost want them to just stop trying to "fix" it and say screw it (or go to H3's setup), if this is their idea of a better implementation.

edit: And anyone who justifies the bloom as anything but luck, fails.
 
S

SnakeXs

about the same metal capacity as a cucumber
FunkyMunkey said:
THANK YOU.

Please post more of this. The whole reticule bloom thing is so much bullshit, I can't even understand why Bungie would want to shit around with a great Halo formula. And meanwhile mess with everything else and go "whelp, hope it works lol!".

Oh yeah, and Invasion is completely broken with the current vehicle health and damage situation. I almost want them to just stop trying to "fix" it and say screw it (or go to H3's setup), if this is their idea of a better implementation.

edit: And anyone who justifies the bloom as anything but luck, fails.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure bloom just visualizes what happened in prior Halos. You had the same "randomness" then as you do now, but now you get visual feedback about it.
 
K

Kapura

Banned
EazyB said:
For the new page:

In the name of science I conducted a few controlled experiments with the reticule bloom to test the extent of the randomness it produces, specifically it landing hits when the reticule is not on the player.

Here's the films of the 4 games I played, no one should bother rendering them as they're long and the purpose is to see the reticule, furthermore it's much easier to see where each shot lands by viewing it in theater and slowing it down.
1
2
3
4

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about. This is the shot that kills the player:
2lbjm7d.jpg


The reason it did so is because the bloomed reticule made the bullet land in a random location within this greater radius:
29gehwl.jpg


This bloom adds too much randomness in the gunplay for my liking and adds more frustration than fun or skill.
Click to expand...
The science, so far as it can be called such, is good. The conclusion I take issue with. The bloom indicates the spread of the weapon's fire, and should be taken into note when firing in quick succession. A person who pulls the trigger as fast as they can, even if aiming at the head, may not hit it. A skilled player will wait until the reticle tones down a bit, and will therefore make the headshot, taking chance out of the equation. While a player spraying with a precision weapon may get lucky kills because of it, it offers a greater return overall to wait the fraction of a second to make sure the shot will connect. In your pic, the head is only a small portion of the circle, in an even distribution, the shot has a greater chance of missing than hitting. If it's a Gaussian distribution, the chance decreases even more.

This is why I see that the bloom adds more skill: Good players won't waste shots. BKs will rapidfire at inadvisable ranges and get frustrated when they aren't landing the headshots.
 
K

Klocker

Member
SnakeXs said:
I'm pretty sure bloom just visualizes what happened in prior Halos. You had the same "randomness" then as you do now, but now you get visual feedback about it.
Click to expand...



Yep, which I find to be an addition to the game play
 
E

electricpirate

Member
SnakeXs said:
I'm pretty sure bloom just visualizes what happened in prior Halos. You had the same "randomness" then as you do now, but now you get visual feedback about it.
Click to expand...

In other Halo's it only really applied to bullet hose weapons, or non headshot weapons. Accuracy degradation is a much more prominent effect in Reach, to go along with the very poorly handled reticule bloom visual effect that accompanies it.

I have a lot of thoughts on bloom, what it adds, and what it removes from the halo formula, but I haven't quite figured them all out yet.

Either way, I've been meaning to do what you did with those vids Eazy, thanks for posting them.
 
A

AwesomeSyrup

Banned
There are just so many changes in Reach that makes me wonder what Bungie was thinking. Not to say there aren't plenty of new things I like, but stuff like bloom and white guy hops the Spartans now have just don't make sense.
 
F

FunkyMunkey

Banned
AwesomeSyrup said:
There are just so many changes in Reach that makes me wonder what Bungie was thinking. Not to say there aren't plenty of new things I like, but stuff like bloom and white guy hops the Spartans now have just don't make sense.
Click to expand...

I honestly think they gave the Shadowrun guy the keys to the castle...

and then he smoked and drank a lot before work.

:p
but really.
 
E

EazyB

Banned
Kapura said:
The science, so far as it can be called such, is good. The conclusion I take issue with. The bloom indicates the spread of the weapon's fire, and should be taken into note when firing in quick succession. A person who pulls the trigger as fast as they can, even if aiming at the head, may not hit it. A skilled player will wait until the reticle tones down a bit, and will therefore make the headshot, taking chance out of the equation. While a player spraying with a precision weapon may get lucky kills because of it, it offers a greater return overall to wait the fraction of a second to make sure the shot will connect. In your pic, the head is only a small portion of the circle, in an even distribution, the shot has a greater chance of missing than hitting. If it's a Gaussian distribution, the chance decreases even more.

This is why I see that the bloom adds more skill: Good players won't waste shots. BKs will rapidfire at inadvisable ranges and get frustrated when they aren't landing the headshots.
Click to expand...
I wish this were the case but it's not. When you stop firing to get the bloom down to a radius that "takes chance out of the equation" you're hoping that the player spamming the trigger doesn't get lucky with a headshot or land 4 wild body shots. Spam the trigger with each shot having a 30% chance of netting a headshot or absorb some bullets and wait for the 90% shot, it's a game of chance.

If I have time I'll see how much time it takes to kill someone spamming the trigger and make a nice little plot of it against controlling the last shot.
 
R

Red

Member
&#8704 said:
Memories of Truth & Reconciliation on Legendary. Yeah. You know which part I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
My favorite thing about Halo CE's campaign was that the plasma pistol turned out to be the biggest death dealer when playing on Legendary. I finished the game dozens and dozens of times and always carried one with me. Turned all sword-wielding Elites into three second encounters: overcharge, headshot. Bam.
 
R

Red

Member
EazyB said:
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/careerstats.aspx?player=everluck&vc=2

:lol

Think what you will kid
Click to expand...
I've talked in this thread before about how terrible I am at the game. I think my exact quote about my skill level was "somewhere between a lamprey eel and cro-magnon man." Doesn't change the fact that a very vocal group of haters is whining about an evolutionary gameplay mechanic that creates another layer to the series' combat.

For what it's worth, I play a lot of games with my little brother (here), who's onyx, and typically get stuck playing against levels 4/5 in arena. This leads to me getting smashed and destroying my k/d.
I don't mind, because I'm having a blast the entire time.
 
S

SonOfABeep

Banned
I like almost everything about this game.

Don't change the reticule bloom, whatever you do, bungie. It's the best idea since regenerating health and two weapons at a time. I love it.

Also, New Juggernaut gametype is good, but maybe needs an auto switch juggernaut after a minute. Some people can too easily run that game if the other players aren't coordinating.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Headhunter and Stockpile. They remind me why I loved halo in the first place.

Oh yeah, network test is pretty laggy. I hope it can work with 4v4 in the final. There may be a limitation due to the size of maps and the number of objects involved though.
 
LAUGHTREY

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Crunched said:
I've talked in this thread before about how terrible I am at the game. I think my exact quote about my skill level was "somewhere between a lamprey eel and cro-magnon man." Doesn't change the fact that a very vocal group of haters is whining about an evolutionary gameplay mechanic that creates another layer to the series' combat.
Click to expand...


If by 'evolutionary gameplay mechanic' you mean 'artificial mechanic to slow down the pace of the game' and 'bring the skill curve down and make it more easy for new people to kill veteran players' then yes, you're absolutely correct.
 
R

Red

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
If by 'evolutionary gameplay mechanic' you mean 'artificial mechanic to slow down the pace of the game' and 'bring the skill curve down and make it more easy for new people to kill veteran players' then yes, you're absolutely correct.
Click to expand...
Player who times shots properly will do better more consistently than player who doesn't. That's the opposite of "bringing down the skill curve."
 
A

AwesomeSyrup

Banned
I love how all the people supporting these changes are people I've never seen post in any Halo thread and will probably only play Reach until the next big thing.
 
S

SonOfABeep

Banned
Fuck you guys who play halo like it's a sport.

I hate that shit. Halo is for fun.

I see Halo/MW2/etc. in a whole separate, lesser league than any kind of competitive Street Fighter, Chess, or Starcraft play. It just feels like the kids table in comparison. Play the game to have fun.
 
LAUGHTREY

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Crunched said:
Player who times shots properly will do better more consistently than player who doesn't. That's the opposite of "bringing down the skill curve."
Click to expand...

Do you know anything about Halo?

If you just said you're bad and admitted it, how can you know what something will do to the skill curve?
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
SonOfABeep said:
Fuck you guys who play halo like it's a sport.

I hate that shit. Halo is for fun.

I see Halo/MW2/etc. in a whole separate, lesser league than any kind of competitive Street Fighter, Chess, or Starcraft play. It just feels like the kids table in comparison. Play the game to have fun.
Click to expand...

street fighter is butom mash heaven, and starcraft is build order win... People who think that one game requires more skill then another game is delusional.
 
R

Red

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
Do you know anything about Halo?

If you just said you're bad and admitted it, how can you know what something will do to the skill curve?
Click to expand...
My dick's not small enough that I need to validate myself by honing my 1v1 skills, but I do have some common fucking sense.

Why are you guys so tense about it :lol

H3 will still be there. I've said it before: it's like the majority of complaints stem from the basic fact that Reach isn't simply another map pack for Halo 3.
Pappasman said:
Fuck you for telling us how to have fun. If someone wants to play it very seriously and competitive good for them, they probably get enjoyment out of that. If someone just wants to dick around in social games then that's fine too. Its not other people's job to criticize the way others play a game.
Click to expand...
I can't argue with that. I've actually been pretty surprised by how upset many people are about the changes. I thought the competitive community would love them, since now it's more than just a "point and click" affair, so to speak.
 
F

FilthyLies

Member
SonOfABeep said:
Also, New Juggernaut gametype is good, but maybe needs an auto switch juggernaut after a minute. Some people can too easily run that game if the other players aren't coordinating.
Click to expand...
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=890884 Coordination didn't work too well for these guys. Grouping up in a hallway or on a bridge is never a smart plan in Juggernaut :lol :lol

Best strategy I've found for killing Juggernauts is to lone-wolf it with a PLasma Launcher or a Rocket Launcher. Or a noob combo, but that runs a higher risk of someone else landing the kill.
 
P

Pappasman

Member
SonOfABeep said:
Fuck you guys who play halo like it's a sport.

I hate that shit. Halo is for fun.

I see Halo/MW2/etc. in a whole separate, lesser league than any kind of competitive Street Fighter, Chess, or Starcraft play. It just feels like the kids table in comparison. Play the game to have fun.
Click to expand...

Fuck you for telling us how to have fun. If someone wants to play it very seriously and competitive good for them, they probably get enjoyment out of that. If someone just wants to dick around in social games then that's fine too. Its not other people's job to criticize the way others play a game.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
Best theory of the weapons yet (as to why there is a reticule bloom).

It's because the UNSC didn't have the legendary research at the time that later gave birth to Halo CE's pistol and 3's BR. Duuuuhhh :p
 
U

UltimaPooh

Member
les papillons sexuels said:
street fighter is butom mash heaven, and starcraft is build order win... People who think that one game requires more skill then another game is delusional.
Click to expand...

What's with all the junior's getting out of line tonight?
 
S

Subtervotion

Member
SonOfABeep said:
I like almost everything about this game.

Don't change the reticule bloom, whatever you do, bungie. It's the best idea since regenerating health and two weapons at a time. I love it.

Also, New Juggernaut gametype is good, but maybe needs an auto switch juggernaut after a minute. Some people can too easily run that game if the other players aren't coordinating.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Headhunter and Stockpile. They remind me why I loved halo in the first place.

Oh yeah, network test is pretty laggy. I hope it can work with 4v4 in the final. There may be a limitation due to the size of maps and the number of objects involved though.
Click to expand...

I thought about that too. Do you think people might just run and hide from the Jug though? Maybe the person who did the most damage to him would be first in line to get Jug next. If they did that, I think it could work nicely.
 
E

EazyB

Banned
Crunched said:
Doesn't change the fact that a very vocal group of haters is whining about an evolutionary gameplay mechanic that creates another layer to the series' combat.
Click to expand...
Wise words from Kylej:
"They can make me jack off a giraffe to get a kill, doesn't make it more fun."
 
S

Subtervotion

Member
EazyB said:
Wise words from Kylej:
"They can make me jack off a giraffe to get a kill, doesn't make it more fun."
Click to expand...

I think beating on giraffe dick and crosshair bloom are far far FAR too different to be used together like that. Wise words indeed. :lol
 
S

SonOfABeep

Banned
Maybe the problem is more with juggernaut being too easy to run away with. Maybe it needs a longer timer or less points given? I dunno. It just seemed like the games I did had a early leader that was untouchable, because the guy who gets jug first has the advantage in points, unless he plays it stupid. Then it's his fault.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Maybe it's because I played halo 3 first and then played Halo CE, but the gas effect made it looked silly to me. The clean cut look of the successors were better.

You guys seem to fear elites a lot in general. I felt they were very cunning and deadly opponents as well, but I never fears the things, especially when they made that hilarious death scream whenever they died by explosion. :lol
 
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