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Shoot the Core! - Gaf Shoot ‘em Up (aka Shooter/SHMUP) Reference Thread

I still think R-Type is a good example of how many different tactics you can get out of a simple weapon ruleset. You can rapid fire or charge but charging means you can't rapid fire (especially with some of the longer charges in later games). You can dock the force at the front or back to direct your fire that way (no turn-around button) which also shields you from bullets and serves as a melee attack or you can detach the force to throw it at distant enemies or just have it fire shots at different angles (the default force isn't so good undocked beyond being thrown at weak points but some of the Delta and Final forces have very useful independent modes). Plus the detached force's movements react to your own so you can guide it to different places.

And since shmups are autoscrollers and not shooting for a while means that more enemies are entering the screen and attacking, that charge shot is an actual trade-off, not a button you hold all the time like in a Mega Man game.

The Murakumo (or Muramasa or Masamune or whatever, I always get all those names mixed up) in DBCS is somewhat similar with its options that change their weapon type with their formation so you cycle between cancelling bullets, piercing enemies and piercing terrain with them while also making them better or worse at being a physical shield. Your burst shot interrupts your attack but is powerful, keep it firing for a set duration to charge that explosion that triggers when you release it (which is the only way to clear large swarms as you can't sweep back and forth all that fast) but watch your meter and the lower your meter goes the fewer options you'll have afterwards. Yeah, it's OP compared to the other ships but a game balanced around those capabilities could demand some tactical flexibility.

Another thing that could help make shmups more mainstream again would be the Mario 3 and World route with an overworld and large numbers of levels. DBCS is kinda going that way but the heavy repetition and reuse of levels and bosses weakens it considerably (while it has a lot of distinct levels and bosses it starts repeating them very early and gradually shuffles in more stuff, that feels very padded). Compare Tyrian which has a lengthy campaign without that kind of repetition. Repetition is nicer when you want to do it, not when you must do it to proceed. And there's no lack of people playing Mario games at a very high level despite the large number of maps.

Charge shots seem very underused in general. In fact, I think the trade-off you talk about is exactly why games have almost completely replaced charge shots with special gauges. You still need time to "charge" but you don't need to hold a button (and button-holding definitely taxes the dexterity of players who are trying to dodge at the same time).

Designing games based around dodging also happens to make it sometimes humanly impossible to juggle a force pod like in R-Type.

When you bring up autoscrolling, that reminds me that a handful of games have tried speed-based mechanics - Cloudphobia, After Burner Climax, and probably others I've forgotten. These games effectively let you control how quickly you scroll past enemies, and give you incentives for going as fast as possible. But they kind of went too far in opposite directions - in Cloudphobia most beginners will just time out on the first stage unless they go so fast that they start taking massive damage, and in After Burner Climax going fast doesn't actually matter unless you're chasing absolutely perfect ranking.

I could see a more elaborate version of this where you just face one wave of enemies at a time unless you press the speed-up button to get multiple waves on screen at once, which tests your ability to destroy them efficiently. You could get rewarded by unlocking alternate paths if you get through the stage fast enough by taking out multiple waves at once.

DBCS has one serious barrier to entry: you can't really read about how all the ships work except outside the game! And then in the game, all the ships look so similar (and you almost never get to see all the ships on one screen) that you lose track of which one you're choosing. The mechanics are rich, but they are opaque.

I do know that Super Hydorah is going to have a large number of levels and branching paths. Once this gets on Steam, let's see how far that gets it in terms of acceptance.
 
i grab this shooter today now that i got a nes (cross posting):
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Cool. I've only ever played Star Force but I have been really wanting to return to some 8-bit shmups. I was just thinking earlier today that I haven't played Salamander [Life Force] since childhood.

i also grabbed another childhood favorite Zanac when i picked up the nes and playing last night:
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salamander was one of my first ever side scrolling shooter i played in the arcade. i later played gardius on nes and instantly remembered some similarities to life force.


some random thoughts on life force/salamander:
- it's silly, but i thought the vic viper had 2 tail fins and the Road(Lord) British had one tail fin looking at the 1 and 2 player ships in the arcade that were of different design. i summarized that gradius didn't have the vic viper and it was an inferior ship with only one direction ground missiles. lol
-once the nes version of life force hit, i instantly brought it. i was disappointed that the 1-2 player ships looks identical and life the power up system was the level up type in gradius.
- the extra boards not seen in the arcades were cool like the anime.

there was two local stores that had arcade machines around me: one had legit US machines while the other had illegal import machines. so i got to play both salamander and life force.

regarding the arcade: the voice samples were the same but had different dialogue for each version:
- salamander would say "pick it up for rippled laser", life force called it pulse laser.
- the one issue that drove me nuts as a 3rd grader in both versions was the force field would shrink/deplete every time a powerup was picked up. i kept trying to figure out a way to keep my force field intact when grabbing power ups. i finally figured out a way after all these years, pick up power ups by the rear of the ship will save the force field.

anyways, i guess i get pretty excited hearing about salamander =)
 

Yes Boss!

Member
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Even if this disc release is technically region-free, I'm not sure what this means for the DLC... unless it includes all of it on disc (prediction: unlikely)

Odd choice as it already has a full retail release coming next month. Only advantage might be a lower price. And perhaps it might open up M2 to the possibility to release their Garegga. Personally, I'd rather have the official J-release instead of LRG.
 

KDR_11k

Member
Charge shots seem very underused in general. In fact, I think the trade-off you talk about is exactly why games have almost completely replaced charge shots with special gauges. You still need time to "charge" but you don't need to hold a button (and button-holding definitely taxes the dexterity of players who are trying to dodge at the same time).

Most if not all shmups have you hold down the fire button while you're also dodging, what's the difference to holding down the charge button? As long as there's a button you can hold for rapid fire (instead of mashing the charge button) that should be fine. It's not like a Mega Man game where you only attack occasionally and holding down one (or two in the Zero games) extra buttons while doing your maneuvers cramps your hand.

Designing games based around dodging also happens to make it sometimes humanly impossible to juggle a force pod like in R-Type.

You have to dodge attacks in R-Type too. The pod maneuvering happens between waves.
 
Been trying to 1CC Crimzon Clover: World Ignition on Arcade Original... Not going so well. I get worked by stage 3. :(

Any advice? I really get bombed in the last quarter of stage 3.
 

Momentary

Banned
Been trying to 1CC Crimzon Clover: World Ignition on Arcade Original... Not going so well. I get worked by stage 3. :(

Any advice? I really get bombed in the last quarter of stage 3.

I still haven't 1CC'd Arcade Original. I get to focused on trying to score high and I get wrecked around the same stage.
 
I still haven't 1CC'd Arcade Original. I get to focused on trying to score high and I get wrecked around the same stage.

I'm using the overpowered Type-Z pinecone ship with the absurd spread to damage ratio and I still get dunked. Maybe someday!
 
anyways, i guess i get pretty excited hearing about salamander =)

Hah, no worries and thanks for sharing. I'm pretty sure I've played through all of Compile's output from that period but Zanac definitely stands out for me with its crazy powerup system, at least crazy for the time if memory holds.

And I probably played stuff like Galaga or whatever in the arcade prior but Salamander is my strongest first shmup memory. It was a formative game for me, no doubt, and was a regular in the game rotation with my group of friends just like Contra, TMNT, Double Dragon, etc.. So much so that seeing people on the internet so often put those other games on a pedestal but basically never seeing Salamander/Life Force listed among feels alien.
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
Dariusburst CS is on sale on the European PSN store again (PS4 / Vita). This time for €17.99 / €14.99. The Taito, Sega and Cave DLC bundles are also on sale.

This made me finally pick up the game. Seems really nice so far, but from what I can see multiplayer is only for Arcade mode? Already hard enough to see anything in that mode without multiplayer. ;)
 
Who here prefer hori shmups (Gradius, Darius, etc) as opposed to vertical scrollers? (Raiden, Dodonpachi, etc)

Me personally I very much prefer vert. I guess my reasons being with horizontal shmups is that its kind of harder visually to maneuver your ship to dodge bullets, from my experience theres more bullet sponge enemies, and like every horizontal shmup has annoying obstacles!

At least with hori you don't have to turn your monitor sideways to play them
 
Who here prefer hori shmups (Gradius, Darius, etc) as opposed to vertical scrollers? (Raiden, Dodonpachi, etc)

Me personally I very much prefer vert. I guess my reasons being with horizontal shmups is that its kind of harder visually to maneuver your ship to dodge bullets, from my experience theres more bullet sponge enemies, and like every horizontal shmup has annoying obstacles!

At least with hori you don't have to turn your monitor sideways to play them

Vert is easier to "read" bullet trajectory in my opinion as well, but I'm fine with environment hazards and generally slower pacing of horizontal games though, so I don't really have a preference.
 
Who here prefer hori shmups (Gradius, Darius, etc) as opposed to vertical scrollers? (Raiden, Dodonpachi, etc)

Me personally I very much prefer vert. I guess my reasons being with horizontal shmups is that its kind of harder visually to maneuver your ship to dodge bullets, from my experience theres more bullet sponge enemies, and like every horizontal shmup has annoying obstacles!

At least with hori you don't have to turn your monitor sideways to play them

Vertical feels much more natural for me. It's the closest thing to a first person perspective while giving me the overview so I can actually dodge everything. :D

Shame about needing to turn my monitor, though ;)
 
i like horizontal shooters bc i don't want to turn my crt sideways =)

i love twin cobra though, probably my favorite vertical shooter. but love thunderforce/gradius..
 

Creepy

Member
I'm not as good at Horizontal ones for some reason.
All of my favorites are Vertical with the exception of Deathsmiles.
 

STG!

Member
Who here prefer hori shmups (Gradius, Darius, etc) as opposed to vertical scrollers? (Raiden, Dodonpachi, etc)

Me personally I very much prefer vert. I guess my reasons being with horizontal shmups is that its kind of harder visually to maneuver your ship to dodge bullets, from my experience theres more bullet sponge enemies, and like every horizontal shmup has annoying obstacles!

I probably would give a slight edge to verts for the same reason as others, it does feel quite natural. Plus, it's wonderful seeing a vert on a big CRT screen. But damn I love hori's, and those few hori/vert games like Radiant Silvergun/Mars Matrix/etc. I don't have the same issues other's have seeing bullet patterns in hori's.

At least with hori you don't have to turn your monitor sideways to play them

Well, you simply buy a second monitor! ;)
 
I've never had a preference in the hori/vert war. I do recognize that each has its trade-offs.

If you've never tried rotating the screen on a hori STG I highly recommend it. Makes some subtle differences immediately obvious. And likewise play a vert in hori position. Something I think everyone should do at least once.
 

Wonko_C

Member
While I like both, I feel hori shooters have gotten more creative with perspectives on their backgrounds. They can be isometric, slanted, use cool raster effects, use tons of parallax, some even do an "inside a barrel" effect, even top down and still play horizontally. In most vertical shooters all you see is the ground/sea from the top, like a satellite view.

Props to Ketsui though, their backgrounds kind of look like 3/4 view and manage to differentiate well from its Dodonpachi cousin.
 

Narroo

Member
Last night I managed to 1cc Mushihimisama 1.5 on normal. Yes, it's my first C.A.V.E. 1cc. I've 1cc'ed other shoot em ups, but not a CAVE game.
 

Fularu

Banned
So after fixing my PCE CD last week I played Gates of thunder for the first time in over 10 years

Boy was I underwhelmed.

Game is slow, easy, boring, filled with cheap hiden deaths (closed space enemies spawning in the back anyone?)... But that wasn't the worst offender

Game felt like a poor man's Thunder Force 3 (same kind of level design, same kind of weapons, same speed select system, same type of power ups, same enemy designs)

I'm not sure I'm really going to bother going back to it.

In short, maybe Red should have stuck doing RPGs and Action games rather than this prety mediocre ripoff.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
So after fixing my PCE CD last week I played Gates of thunder for the first time in over 10 years

Boy was I underwhelmed.

Game is slow, easy, boring, filled with cheap hiden deaths (closed space enemies spawning in the back anyone?)... But that wasn't the worst offender

Game felt like a poor man's Thunder Force 3 (same kind of level design, same kind of weapons, same speed select system, same type of power ups, same enemy designs)

I'm not sure I'm really going to bother going back to it.

In short, maybe Red should have stuck doing RPGs and Action games rather than this prety mediocre ripoff.

The team that made that game was the same team (minus sound guys) that made Thunder Force II and III and they were headhunted by Hudson for the explicit purpose of making a TF-style game for PCE.

I haven't played it in ages so I can't comment on how well it does or doesn't hold up but I played Lords of Thunder again recently and I think that game's pretty good.
 
Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviors is sale on Steam for $20

I want to buy it but I already bought it for PS4...

Ah shit, couldn't they wait till march? I'm broke right now. Oh well, it's not like I've mastered any of the shmups I already own. :D I still play DDP and Mushihimesama every day, though.
 
This Dariusburst sale is because the Capcom DLC pack comes out mid-week, by the way.

I've bought absolutely everything in this game at launch... and it is still hard as hell for me unless I use the overpowered ships.
 

vityaz

Member
In case there are people who haven't gotten them yet...

This week on steam:

DoDonPachi Resurrection off 30%
DeathSmiles off 60%
Hyperspace pack (revolution ace, star saviors, waveform) off 83%
 
Considering this month marks the 30th anniversary of Darius, I've been kicking around the idea of doing a write-up of the series (1, 2, Gaiden, G, Burst: Chronicle Saviour)

It's going to involve replaying Darius 2 though......bleghhhhhhh
 

smisk

Member
I like the genre, but damn am I bad at SHMUPS. I'm currently playing Hydorah (a free shmup kinda reminiscent of R-Type) and have been stuck on a level about halfway through for the entire weekend..
Great game though, I'd definitely recommend it. Apparently there's an expanded version coming to Steam sometime this year.
 
I like the genre, but damn am I bad at SHMUPS. I'm currently playing Hydorah (a free shmup kinda reminiscent of R-Type) and have been stuck on a level about halfway through for the entire weekend..
Great game though, I'd definitely recommend it. Apparently there's an expanded version coming to Steam sometime this year.

What kind of controller are you using? Keyboard? Gamepad?
 
Keyboard right now. I may switch to a gamepad and see if it makes a difference. I'm definitely getting better, but progress feels very slow.

Some players can play godly with a keyboard, you can get some nice precision in your movements with the keys. PS4/Xbox controllers usually suck for shmups because the analog sticks/d-pad aren't too good for precision. I'd say keyboard is better than those gamepads in that sense. I do my best playing with my arcade stick though, which was admittedly very expensive but man there's nothing that feels better than playing shmups with a high quality stick.
 
I have to go with stick as well.
Although, I'll also say that a stick can take awhile to "break in". I started getting my best results (1CCed DDP first loop, 1CCed Mushihime-sama Original, actual real progress in Ketsui, etc) after a very long time playing with the same stick (Hori EX-SE). Once I switched to a brand new HRAP4, my level of play has gone down considerably.
 

Fularu

Banned
The team that made that game was the same team (minus sound guys) that made Thunder Force II and III and they were headhunted by Hudson for the explicit purpose of making a TF-style game for PCE.

I haven't played it in ages so I can't comment on how well it does or doesn't hold up but I played Lords of Thunder again recently and I think that game's pretty good.

Really, that could explain the similarities with TF3 but then, Technosoft went on to make TF4 and TF5 without those guys? I find that so hard to believe (especially since TFV is such a love letter to the franchise, game is amazing).

Edit L Wings of Thunder is a good game. Not the best PCE Shmup (Star Parodia <3) but a very strong contender.
 

Jotapehoward

Neo Member
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Hey guys! I don't know if you have heard of Defenders of Ekron but you should check it out! It has story and exploration elements of an adventure genre but at the same time the classical action of a shmup!.
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Great music, nice retro feel and interesting mechanics. And now they realased a new trailer with a contest for free digital copies and to support the Steam Greenlight campaign.

click here to check it out!
http://woobox.com/pxnjeu
 
I'm having some trouble navigating the japanese psn looking for shmups. I'm looking for R Type Delta and Einhander mostly, but I was wondering if they have a category or a way to search all shooters on the store?
Hoping somone here would be able to point me in the right direction. I have a japanese account, but Chrome doesn't seem to want to translate all the store pages.
 
I'm having some trouble navigating the japanese psn looking for shmups. I'm looking for R Type Delta and Einhander mostly, but I was wondering if they have a category or a way to search all shooters on the store?
Hoping somone here would be able to point me in the right direction. I have a japanese account, but Chrome doesn't seem to want to translate all the store pages.

Einhander:
https://store.playstation.com/#!/ja-jp/ゲーム/アインハンダー/cid=JP0082-NPJJ00167_00-0000000000000001

General shooter section:
https://store.playstation.com/#!/ja...N.CH.MIXED.JP-PS1ARCHIVESALL|genre~shooter|/1

Looks like R-Type Delta was delisted?
 
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