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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck

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C

cakefoo

Member
Duck Season, first gameplay.

It's from the Hover Junkers guys, so if you can get through it *cough the hosts cough* there's a lot of juicy info about the game.

Comes out in a few months, along with this:

3250092-dsc00740.jpg


HTC claims they're happy with Vive sales, and aren't interested in a price drop.

Intel's wireless DisplayLink XR addon tested
+ Finally shown in a roomscale environment
+ 3-4 hour battery
+ rear mounted which theoretically will help counterbalance the headset
+ hard to occlude
~ less than 10ms latency, reporter thinks he felt it but couldn't say for sure. Said he thinks he felt it in the headset too, ruling out handtracking latency from the game
+ release window revealed, "early 2018"

Spiderman Homecoming VR experience
Looks a lot like Arkham VR, but free :)

Tested's impressions on Bethesda's 3 VR games
- Fallout sense of scale feels off and "especially Skyrim." (it sounds like the FOV or the virtual eyes need tuning)
+Doom VFR left the best impression and the teledash doesn't feel cheap

HTC Europe sending out free foam replacements for the DAS
- doesn't necessarily mean they're sending "better" foam, until a user confirms

Personal anecdote: My foam started rubbing off after one Superhot session. I rinsed it for 2 minutes, let it air-dry 6 hours, and have played a few hours of intense Superhot speed runs without any discomfort. It's definitely grippier on bare flesh (just rubbing my finger on it), but unless your head is buzzed/bald, I don't think it'll matter. If HTC does improve the foam they'll do it for free if they have half a brain, so there's not much point holding off unless you're buzzed/bald, and even then I couldn't say for sure that it would feel bad.

Ultimately, the DAS is much more convenient to put on/take off, and the on-ear headphones are much cooler than my previous over-ear phones. I also don't have all that tension from the cable digging into the top of my head.
 
S

Sleeping Lesson

Member
That scale stuff Jeremy was describing on the Tested podcast is probably being magnified by him playing with the incorrect IPD. That can make distant objects feel "small", "too close", or two-dimensional.

Could be an issue beyond that, of course, but I've had symptoms like that before calibrating the headset.
 
ArtHands

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Just played FORM from Charms Game

It is indeed a charming, surreal puzzle title that's fun
 
K

KatamariOnTheRocks

Member
Sorry it took a few days to post this, I've been using Gaf less lately, getting kind of frustrated with how many of the things I love and feel passionate about in gaming have become known as "unanimously/objectively garbage" and you can only read about how your favorite things are widely considered awful for so long before it wears on you :/

tHVg9M9.png
Click to expand...

Feel free to ask about any of these games and I'll try my best to answer any questions.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
KatamariOnTheRocks said:
Sorry it took a few days to post this, I've been using Gaf less lately, getting kind of frustrated with how many of the things I love and feel passionate about in gaming have become known as "unanimously/objectively garbage" and you can only read about how your favorite things are widely considered awful for so long before it wears on you :/



Feel free to ask about any of these games and I'll try my best to answer any questions.
Click to expand...

Honestly I'm surprised that despite you having way more in total, there's a significant number of things in my listing that aren't on yours. Guess it just goes to show how much VR content there is out there.

Hz6oQId.png
Click to expand...
 
TheMadMan007

TheMadMan007

Member
I've been out of the VR loop for a while, I'm using Steam VR Beta but I keep hearing people talk about installing Open VR as well, to do SuperSampling or something like that. Do I actually need or want to install it or should I not? Any help would be appreciated.
 
D

Durante

Member
TheMadMan007 said:
I've been out of the VR loop for a while, I'm using Steam VR Beta but I keep hearing people talk about installing Open VR as well, to do SuperSampling or something like that. Do I actually need or want to install it or should I not? Any help would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
People often say "OpenVR" as a shorthand for "OpenVR advanced settings", which is very confusing.

To clarify:
  • "OpenVR" is aa set of prgramming interfaces and components that allow software to interact with VR hardware. If you run any SteamVR game, you are already running OpenVR.
  • "OpenVR Advanced Settings" is a tool created by my colleague matzman666 which adds lots of additional configuration options, information and tools that you can use from within your VR menu (It's a separate tab in addition to e.g. "Steam" and "Desktop").

One thing OpenVR Advanced Settings allows you to do is to change the Supersampling factor conveniently. Another, that I use from time to time, is rapidly adjusting your floor level if it is off by a bit.
 
TheMadMan007

TheMadMan007

Member
Durante said:
People often say "OpenVR" as a shorthand for "OpenVR advanced settings", which is very confusing.

To clarify:
  • "OpenVR" is aa set of prgramming interfaces and components that allow software to interact with VR hardware. If you run any SteamVR game, you are already running OpenVR.
  • "OpenVR Advanced Settings" is a tool created by my colleague matzman666 which adds lots of additional configuration options, information and tools that you can use from within your VR menu (It's a separate tab in addition to e.g. "Steam" and "Desktop").

One thing OpenVR Advanced Settings allows you to do is to change the Supersampling factor conveniently. Another, that I use from time to time, is rapidly adjusting your floor level if it is off by a bit.
Click to expand...

Awesome, Thanks for the quick and detailed reply, that's exactly what I needed to know! I'll get the Advanced Settings installed now.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Durante said:
One thing OpenVR Advanced Settings allows you to do is to change the Supersampling factor conveniently. Another, that I use from time to time, is rapidly adjusting your floor level if it is off by a bit.
Click to expand...

In regards to supersampling, while having the SteamVR option at your fingertips is nice, what passes as manageable levels varies on a game to game basis. Thus I'd suggest using settings within a game first, and only relying on the SteamVR option if such a setting doesn't exist in-game, and the IQ needs a boost..
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
Durante said:
Another, that I use from time to time, is rapidly adjusting your floor level if it is off by a bit.
Click to expand...

Dope. Doesn't happen often but it drives me crazy when it does.

Man I find everything with VR so much more time consuming than normal games. I basically haven't played a flat game since I got my VIVE but theres still SOOOOOO MUCH stuff that I haven't even played with yet. And just hoppin in and testing stuff out is definitely a little more involved just by the nature of the hardware.
 
D

Durante

Member
Zalusithix said:
In regards to supersampling, while having the SteamVR option at your fingertips is nice, what passes as manageable levels varies on a game to game basis. Thus I'd suggest using settings within a game first, and only relying on the SteamVR option if such a setting doesn't exist in-game, and the IQ needs a boost..
Click to expand...
I agree, bit there are still plenty of games which don't have an in-game setting.

These days I have the setting default to 2.0 (using the new linear metric) for mot stuff, and do in-game adjustments as offsets from that.

Jtwo said:
Man I find everything with VR so much more time consuming than normal games.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, but only for games which have some sort off exploration aspect.

I'm pretty certain I'll never finish Fallout 4 VR (then again, I haven't even finished a "flat" Bethesda game since Morrowind so that's nothing new).
 
A

Auto-Reply

Member
I had to completely deinstall Steam and now I'm about to download everything again (that will take me quite a while).

For about 3-4 years Steam was working perfectly fine, the last couple of days it started acting up. Crashing on start-up and if it didn't crash, coudn't connect to account, couldn't go online.

It seemed I had temporarily fixed this by file renaming/refreshing of certain Steam files... but it came back and with a vengeance!

I've spend some hours on everything I could find online, from router manufacture resets to file renaming/downloading, Firewall/Antivir set up, several permission right changes on OS level to Windows reg-edits... nada!

Hope a complete reinstall will do the trick, it seems to be doing it's job at the moment but I have to observe the entire thing in the next couple of days.

I apologize if this isn't the place to post this, thing is, I basically only did VR related stuff in the last couple of months and nothing else (there is the chance it could be something Bayonetta related as this is the only non VR game I've played or a Windows Update problem... from reading on the internet, there are quite a few people that had/have a similar problem even years ago so it isn't logical to assume that it's VR related).

Maybe I just needed to vent, computer problems always put me in rage mode.

To not make this a completely misplaced post, last thing I've played was Vertigo, and I'm only at the start but I really like it already. Not sure how long it will last but it's a bit like Conductor, even more Portal inspired than that and the simple artstyle and the atmosphere in the game is right up my alley.

Will be the first thing I will play to test out if Steam is still acting up or not.

Edit: As a sidenote, I probably wouldn't have had to also delete all games but anyway, Batman Arkham City was interesting to remove, as in it created a win32 folder that I wasn't able to remove, even with extended cmd admin rights on an admin account through the command line and deleteing registry entries. It woudn't budge and wouldn't let me remove the directory it was in and I wanted to have a clean partition... only thing that worked in the end was formatting the partition lol. Whatever that was about.
 
W

Wowfunhappy

Member
Auto-Reply said:
I had to completely deinstall Steam and now I'm about to download everything again (that will take me quite a while).
Click to expand...

Personally, I would briefly verify that your hardware isn't failing (Hard Drive, memory, etc--unlikely but you never know) and then reformat everything and do a full OS reinstall. Probably not strictly necessary, but when I start having really weird computer problems, wiping everything clean always seems to save me time in the end.

**********

The Vive has been out for more than a year now, and I'm noticing a distinct decline in the number of true "roomscale" games. In the early days, we had The Blu, Holopoint, Fantastic Contraption, Job Simulator, and Budget Cuts, and I keep coming back to these games--even those I'm not a huge fan of in an absolute sense--because of how they force me to physically move through a virtual world.

What new roomscale games have been released in the past, say, nine months? I'm sure that there have been some, but I can't think of any big ones. The closest thing I've played was Superhot VR, which is to say that I moved around a lot when I played it, even though it was designed for the front-facing-only Oculus Rift. The new focus seems to be on "Standing 360" games, which let you teleport, slide, and dash around large worlds, but make normal walking basically obsolete.

I'm sure at least some of this has to do with play area sizes--the 4x3 area I carved out in my apartment is uncommon, and how much "walking" can really be done from within a 7 foot bubble? But there's a lot of exciting potential experiences that are just being ignored right now. Take Budget Cuts, which used teleportation but also required a ton of physical locomotion. And while I understand the environmental limitations, Budget Cuts was an awesome tech demo and I really want to see a full game designed with that style movement.

And I'd expected to see more experimentation! Remember how games had this concept of "screens" prior to the introduction of scrolling? Levels were designed in pieces that could fit in a single frame, and when you reached the edge of one piece, you were transitioned onto the next one. Side scrollers were definitely an improvement overall, but static screens didn't hold back games like the original Legend of Zelda, and modern (if retro-inspired) games like VVVVVV don't feel particularly antiquated without scrolling.

Maybe this would work terribly in VR! It's a random comparison I came up with in five minutes. But I'd really like to see more experimentation in the space.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Wowfunhappy said:
The Vive has been out for more than a year now, and I'm noticing a distinct decline in the number of true "roomscale" games. In the early days, we had The Blu, Holopoint, Fantastic Contraption, Job Simulator, and Budget Cuts, and I keep coming back to these games--even those I'm not a huge fan of in an absolute sense--because of how they force me to physically move through a virtual world.

What new roomscale games have been released in the past, say, nine months? I'm sure that there have been some, but I can't think of any big ones. The closest thing I've played was Superhot VR, which is to say that I moved around a lot when I played it, even though it was designed for the front-facing-only Oculus Rift. The new focus seems to be on "Standing 360" games, which let you teleport, slide, and dash around large worlds, but make normal walking basically obsolete.
Click to expand...

The Blu is pretty much standing 360, and honestly standing 360 with flexibility on walking in addition to the teleportation / artificial movement is far more flexible than fixed roomscale, and can target a greater variety of setups without changes to gameplay mechanics. Fixed roomscale is limiting from a gameplay design standpoint, and is complicated by the varying sizes and shapes of people's play spaces.

Standing 360 with dodge room to all sides is something that'll become universal on the hardware capability side, and is something that most people can afford space wise. Even with the sacrifices made for practicality, it still offers the majority of the benefits of true roomscale. It marks the sweet spot in the requirement to benefit curve IMO.

So yeah, fixed roomscale is a niche within VR, and should remain as such for at least a couple generations. VR game development needs to reach as large as a market as possible without cutting into the depth of the experience. With greater market reach, more time and money can be sunk into games, and that is something that'll be needed to move the needle forward from concepts and demos to commercially viable games.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
Wowfunhappy said:
The Vive has been out for more than a year now, and I'm noticing a distinct decline in the number of true "roomscale" games. In the early days, we had The Blu, Holopoint, Fantastic Contraption, Job Simulator, and Budget Cuts, and I keep coming back to these games--even those I'm not a huge fan of in an absolute sense--because of how they force me to physically move through a virtual world.

What new roomscale games have been released in the past, say, nine months? I'm sure that there have been some, but I can't think of any big ones. The closest thing I've played was Superhot VR, which is to say that I moved around a lot when I played it, even though it was designed for the front-facing-only Oculus Rift. The new focus seems to be on "Standing 360" games, which let you teleport, slide, and dash around large worlds, but make normal walking basically obsolete.

I'm sure at least some of this has to do with play area sizes--the 4x3 area I carved out in my apartment is uncommon, and how much "walking" can really be done from within a 7 foot bubble? But there's a lot of exciting potential experiences that are just being ignored right now. Take Budget Cuts, which used teleportation but also required a ton of physical locomotion. And while I understand the environmental limitations, Budget Cuts was an awesome tech demo and I really want to see a full game designed with that style movement.

And I'd expected to see more experimentation! Remember how games had this concept of "screens" prior to the introduction of scrolling? Levels were designed in pieces that could fit in a single frame, and when you reached the edge of one piece, you were transitioned onto the next one. Side scrollers were definitely an improvement overall, but static screens didn't hold back games like the original Legend of Zelda, and modern (if retro-inspired) games like VVVVVV don't feel particularly antiquated without scrolling.

Maybe this would work terribly in VR! It's a random comparison I came up with in five minutes. But I'd really like to see more experimentation in the space.
Click to expand...

I think with the realization that artificial locomotion can work for a lot of people and can be used as an option in addition to teleport, a lot of devs aren't leaning so hard on roomscale (for better or worse) and that's led to a decline. Still, there are definitely roomscale games still happening. Some notable recent ones being Cosmic Trip, Rick and Morty: Virtual Rickality, Form, &I Expect You to Die.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
SimplexPL said:
Are you sure "I expect you to die" is roomscale? It even has "seated" in the description on Steam Store.

I am not sure how that parameter is useful in Steam Store, but it seems that there are dozens of Roomscale games coming out every month:
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?sort_by=Released_DESC&vrsupport=303
Click to expand...

Yeah, technically it's seated. I guess I'm thinking of it as something revolving around you grabbing things in your reach or moving around your environment without having to teleport around. Guess it depends on your definition. Some games are more roomscale than others. John Wick for example requires you to take cover in a stationary area or Blasters of the Universe requires you to move around and crouch etc but don't have you grabbing things off the ground and stuff. That reminds me of another example: The Torus Syndicate is a game where you teleport to areas, but each area is a designed roomscale space.
 
ArtHands

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
KatamariOnTheRocks said:
Sorry it took a few days to post this, I've been using Gaf less lately, getting kind of frustrated with how many of the things I love and feel passionate about in gaming have become known as "unanimously/objectively garbage" and you can only read about how your favorite things are widely considered awful for so long before it wears on you :/



Feel free to ask about any of these games and I'll try my best to answer any questions.
Click to expand...
That is a lot of games
 
lyrick

lyrick

Member
Durante said:
It seems like Trickster VR just got coop support, which means that I will most likely buy it soon. Has anyone here played it?
Click to expand...

I've spent a couple hours with it. The game is essentially a wave based fantasy styled action game similar in theme to Vanishing Realms, but instead of a static world map the game jumbles some set-pieces together and throws a randomized objective at you. Once you finish the objective an exit gate appears and you get to deal with waves of enemies until it opens and you can scurry through it.

Then repeat, unlocking a better arsenal along the way.

I never finished it. The difficulty scaled pretty quickly and the game can get a little exhausting.
 
D

Durante

Member
lyrick said:
I've spent a couple hours with it. The game is essentially a wave based fantasy styled action game similar in theme to Vanishing Realms, but instead of a static world map the game jumbles some set-pieces together and throws a randomized objective at you. Once you finish the objective an exit gate appears and you get to deal with waves of enemies until it opens and you can scurry through it.

Then repeat, unlocking a better arsenal along the way.

I never finished it. The difficulty scaled pretty quickly and the game can get a little exhausting.
Click to expand...
Sounds like something that should be pretty fun to go through in coop, and the price is right. Thanks.
 
W

Wowfunhappy

Member
Zalusithix said:
Fixed roomscale is a niche within VR, and should remain as such for at least a couple generations. VR game development needs to reach as large as a market as possible without cutting into the depth of the experience.
Click to expand...

GuitarAtomik said:
I think with the realization that artificial locomotion can work for a lot of people and can be used as an option in addition to teleport, a lot of devs aren't leaning so hard on roomscale (for better or worse) and that's led to a decline.
Click to expand...

See, I actually think the increased push for sliding locomotion as a default is doing more overall harm to the market, because even if only some people feel ill it perpetuates this notion that VR can make you sick, and that's a hard notion to undo.

When I show people the Vive, I've begun avoiding any games with any movement, because one friend felt really sick after playing Raw Data, and it didn't go away until several hours after she took off the headset. That's one case, but now she's never going to try VR again.

BTW, The Torus Syndicate looks great and I'll definitely pick it up, thank you! (Holding off for now just because it seems stupid to buy anything with a large sale presumably a few days away)
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Wowfunhappy said:
See, I actually think the increased push for sliding locomotion as a default is doing more overall harm to the market, because even if only some people feel ill it perpetuates this notion that VR can make you sick, and that's a hard notion to undo.

When I show people the Vive, I've begun avoiding any games with any movement, because one friend felt really sick after playing Raw Data, and it didn't go away until several hours after she took off the headset. That's one case, but now she's never going to try VR again.

BTW, The Torus Syndicate looks great and I'll definitely pick it up, thank you! (Holding off for now just because it seems stupid to buy anything with a large sale presumably a few days away)
Click to expand...
Not everybody is going to be able to handle all forms of VR; it's as simple as that. Start somebody out with something roomscale / standing with blink teleport. Once they have experience with that base for VR, migrate them to games with more complex movement schemes. People will learn their comfort spot, and for some that spot will change over time as they acclimate to VR.

I mean, it's true that people experiencing things that make them sick in a first time experience is an impression that's hard to undo, but I'd say VR getting a stigma of only being roomscale with no artificial movement is more dangerous for the gaming end of things. I think that most people can handle some level of artificial movement, so finding an acceptable middle ground is important.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
The new trailer for mosh pit simulator is.. real fucked up.


@Sosowski: Here's Mosh Pit Simulator latest trailer for your monday needs! Enjoy it while I'll go and finish this game in a tiny Swedish cottage! https://twitter.com/Sosowski/status/876786110537531395/video/1
Click to expand...

Also gonna check out billet dodge this morning.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/648380


If you guys want a neat roomscale gimmick check out "Tilted Mind" it turns the whole floor into one of those tilt labyrinth games and you walk around the room shifting your weight on it to move the ball. It's cool and just a few bucks.
 
A

Auto-Reply

Member
To be honest, when I talk about roomscale, I don't think about walking through my room from wall to wall. That's like 2 steps max anyway.

When I say roomscale I essentially think about not loosing tracking anywhere in my room, from top to bottom and from side to side. But that doesn't really mean using the room availabe mechanically inside a game, so ignoring any other form of artificial locomotion.

It's really more like grabbing stuff from the floor or from walls, making a step to the side consciously or not and not ever thinking about the bounds of the tracking space.

At least this is why I appreciate roomscale tracking.

-
Compsiox said:
Mosh Pit Simulator will definitely become VR's best selling game. I mean look at it.
http://blog.sos.gd/mosh-pit-simulator-e3-shenanigans/
Click to expand...

You know, Goat Simulator didn't get me... as a German, Farming Simulator and Forklift Simulator didn't get me ... this might do tho!
-
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
There's some crazy stuff going on steamvr home, it's wicked cool. And janky as hell.


Just played a scripted object test map or whatever that had a half life 2 barnacle attach to your arm and you can use it like a grappling hook and it's pulsating and making piling sounds right on your arm. And there's a pogo stick which just randomly bounces you around the map. Some weird stuff.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
GuitarAtomik said:
InXile's The Mage's Tale comes out on the Oculus store tomorrow but they confirmed it's a 12 month exclusive. Pretty brutal. I'll probably begrudgingly pick it up if it turns out to be good (it looks pretty good).
Click to expand...

Well, if it's still worth a purchase in a year, I'll look into it. One nice part about having more things to play than time to play them is that I have no desire to stray from my principles and support a closed ecosystem on the PC. Oculus can do whatever they want, but frankly all they've managed to do post-launch is make me increasingly less likely to consider them in the future for gen 2.
 
E

electroflame

Member
Got to play with the Deluxe Audio Strap yesterday and I have to say: it makes a pretty huge improvement.

The headset definitely felt "lighter" on my face, likely as more of the weight is distributed around your head. The audio quality of the headphones were suprisingly good -- certainly good enough to not use a separate pair unless you really want better audio quality.

The adjustable sizing is really the star for me, though. It's easier to put on and easier to take off, and being able to tighten it easily really helps squish the headset to your face. It also seems like it helps hold the headset to your face better if you look down (i.e. it won't pull away as much).

I'm concerned that the tightening system seems kind of cheap. I suspect it's just grooved notches that ratchet it closer to your head, so I can absolutely see those notches wearing out over time and be prone to "slipping". The installation of the strap was a little nerve-racking, in that it takes quite a bit of force to "pop" the straps into the side of the headset. Removing the old strap wasn't too difficult (just remember to rotate them down to unlock first!).

Overall, I'd say it's worth $100 in comfort alone. The provided headphones being decently high-quality was a surprise, and definitely worth the $100 to not have the hassle of additional headphones that potentially slip off your head while playing.

I do wish I had a Torx screwdriver small enough to tighten the two screws that hold the headset strap slots together, as those apparently loosen over time. They aren't too hard to get to, so I can cross that bridge if I feel they're getting loose.

I should mention, though, that if anyone's looking to get a DAS and currently stores their Vive in the box it came in -- it won't fit in with the DAS attached. That's where I usually store it, as the foam compartments are handy for keeping everything in place. I had to take the foam out of the compartment for the Vive to make it fit (the foam just slides out). Not a huge deal, but it's worth thinking about if you store the Vive in its box like I do.

So, final verdict, the DAS is definitely worth $100 for me. If you play the Vive frequently, it's absolutely worth it in comfort and convenience alone, especially since it holds the headset to your face better.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Veritigo_X said:
http://steamcommunity.com/market/search?appid=250820
Click to expand...

*Sigh* Should have known it already existed. Everything will be monetized. Everything.

Edit:
Well at least Valve just gives away their old prototype stuff instead of trashing it.

Edit 2:
I haven't played around with SteamVR Home much thus far, but I have to say, the addition of game based props is pretty damn cool. Being able to scale the models to have anything from tabletop trinkets to floor-standing centerpieces is great.
U9ozyBi.jpg
 
D

Durante

Member
Love the fantastic contraption cat.
I'll have to put a few of these in my holodeck. (we also need a more high-fidelity holodeck environment now that you can move around in it)
 
ArtHands

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
thats just a reference design for the vr makers to create 2nd gen motion controllers, but i guess the actual products from htc and co wont stray too far in terms of its basic form factor

Heres the prototype last year
valve-vr-controller-prototype-2-1021x580.jpg


Seems they added a scroll wheel on the touch pad
DCv96jpXsAAtCy4.jpg:large

DCv963bXgAAfIA_.jpg:large
 
D

Durante

Member
That's most certainly a "virtual" scroll wheel. They also put one on the current Vive controller pad VR representation if it is used in a scrolling context.

The primary changes I can see are the shape of the Steam button and angling the entire pad/buttons a bit further in, which seems like a good idea ergonomically.
What I really like is moving the buttons to the side of the touchpad, reaching the button above the pad is a bit difficult for people with small hands on the Vive controllers.
 
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