I was in shock for like an entire day after that. My ex and I watched the entire series togther and I just kept saying, "damn I can't believe Omar went out like that". It's what makes the Wire so amazing there is no picture perfect ending. No going out with gunz blazing shit like you are used to seeing in the movies and on TV.Acid08 said:Bumping this thread so I don't have to make my own. Omar just got killed by a little fucking punk. The worst fucking kid in the entire show, I hate that little shit. WHAT THE FUCK. 2 more episodes to go, goddamn this is going to be crazy.
MWS Natural said:I was in shock for like an entire day after that. My ex and I watched the entire series togther and I just kept saying, "damn I can't believe Omar went out like that". It's what makes the Wire so amazing there is no picture perfect ending. No going out with gunz blazing shit like you are used to seeing in the movies and on TV.
BEST SHOW EVER.
MMaRsu said:I've been rewatching season 4 for the past two days.. shit is still amazing.
Think I'll rewatch season 1 & 3 as well, then maybe 5.
tnsply100 said:David Simon should've stuck with his original plan of having a different wiretap target each season. Instead he chose to put in irrelevant subplots like Hamsterdam, newspapers, and state of the schools. As the number of subplot goes up, the plot complexity of the main cops vs robbers storyline goes down. If I wanted to watch kids in school, I'd watch Boston Public - not the Wire.
I never thought I'd be the type of person to say this but, I think you just didn't "get it."tnsply100 said:As somebody else mentioned, the quality of the show went down as each season of the show passed. Season 1 was and still is IMO the best show of television produced. Season 5 was merely was complete crap in comparison to S1 - not only was the the direction of the show far away from the real core of the show (cops vs robbers), it was fraught with shitty writing.
David Simon should've stuck with his original plan of having a different wiretap target each season. Instead he chose to put in irrelevant subplots like Hamsterdam, newspapers, and state of the schools. As the number of subplot goes up, the plot complexity of the main cops vs robbers storyline goes down. If I wanted to watch kids in school, I'd watch Boston Public - not the Wire.
In summary, I'd say the show was a disappointment in terms of how good it could have been.
brianjones said:that sounds kinda repetitive to me
not sure how you figure those plotlines are irrelevant.. not enough gangster shit?
tnsply100 said:As somebody else mentioned, the quality of the show went down as each season of the show passed. Season 1 was and still is IMO the best show of television produced. Season 5 was merely was complete crap in comparison to S1 - not only was the the direction of the show far away from the real core of the show (cops vs robbers), it was fraught with shitty writing.
David Simon should've stuck with his original plan of having a different wiretap target each season. Instead he chose to put in irrelevant subplots like Hamsterdam, newspapers, and state of the schools. As the number of subplot goes up, the plot complexity of the main cops vs robbers storyline goes down. If I wanted to watch kids in school, I'd watch Boston Public - not the Wire.
In summary, I'd say the show was a disappointment in terms of how good it could have been.
q_q said:I never thought I'd be the type of person to say this but, I think you just didn't "get it."
PhoenixDark said:S1 starts a bit slow. S3 and S4 are generally considered the best seasons, and two of the best seasons in television history so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Finally, The Wire has never been about "cops vs robbers" which is a rapper simplistic way of looking at it. Simon has said his intention was for each season to have a theme, whether it was reform, schools, media, etc.
tnsply100 said:Irrelevant to the primary cops vs robbers plotline. As you waste screentime on unrelated plotlines, you lose plot complexity on the main case in the season. Season 1 didn't waste any time on any irrelevant subplots. Seasons 3,4, and 5 had plenty of subplots that weren't strictly tied into the hunt for the criminals.
Hamsterdam for instance should've never been a part of the show. Aside from the obvious and utter stupidity of having three open air drug markets staying secret for five weeks, it did not add any depth whatsoever to the hunt for Marlo or Stringer/Avon.
PhoenixDark said:Reading your posts it's clear you don't understand what separates The Wire from cop/procedural shows. It's not about cops chasing bad guys. Not even the first season is as simple as you're trying to convince us. It's about all aspects of crime in a city, its origins, how it is combated, how it effects the community, etc.
That's not really the real core of the show. Yes, the cops and robbers bits are important, but it's the exploration of the connectedness and the ramifications of those elements to society that makes the Wire... the Wire.tnsply100 said:As somebody else mentioned, the quality of the show went down as each season of the show passed. Season 1 was and still is IMO the best show of television produced. Season 5 was merely was complete crap in comparison to S1 - not only was the the direction of the show far away from the real core of the show (cops vs robbers), it was fraught with shitty writing.
David Simon should've stuck with his original plan of having a different wiretap target each season. Instead he chose to put in irrelevant subplots like Hamsterdam, newspapers, and state of the schools. As the number of subplot goes up, the plot complexity of the main cops vs robbers storyline goes down. If I wanted to watch kids in school, I'd watch Boston Public - not the Wire.
In summary, I'd say the show was a disappointment in terms of how good it could have been.
PhoenixDark said:Reading your posts it's clear you don't understand what separates The Wire from cop/procedural shows. It's not about cops chasing bad guys. Not even the first season is as simple as you're trying to convince us. It's about all aspects of crime in a city, its origins, how it is combated, how it effects the community, etc. Blowing off S4 because of the focus on kids turning to crime is quite ridiculous. It introduces a group of well written, well acted kids who's lives are altered by their environment in different ways. It's done brilliantly.
Most people will agree S5 is eh, but the other four seasons are nigh flawless. Really the only weakspot is at the beginning of S2 as it introduces new characters while old characters reminisce about what happened in S1; but that's only a couple episodes, and by the end it surpasses the first season.
edit: even that interview confirms the five theme plan
BorkBork said:That's not really the real core of the show. Yes, the cops and robbers bits are important, but it's the exploration of the connectedness and the ramifications of those elements to society that makes the Wire... the Wire.
The real core of the show is the modern day American city. All the pieces matter.
tnsply100 said:The point of the interview link was to show that the original intention was a narrowly focused wiretap target plotline each season. That only changed later to address the ills of urban society.
Having a different taste in entertainment is "ridiculous"? Okay whatever.
Eh, you're trying too hard. The "black kids" comment gave away your troll.tnsply100 said:No. I "get it". Its just that I don't give a crap about why black kids are turning to crime. I was interested in seeing cops go after criminals (a reason expectation given the name of the show and S1). If the show had been advertised like Boston Public, I would've known never to turn in. I'm simply not interested.
If I had a genuine interest in the ills of urban society, I'd watch real documentaries, not some fictionalized leftist propoganda from Simon.
q_q said:Eh, you're trying too hard. The "black kids" comment gave away your troll.
PhoenixDark said:S1 also had a theme, it's not like that started with S2. From institutional dysfunction to individualism within a group (McNulty and D'Angelo)
No, just the way you worded it. Intentionally attempting to sound like an asshole in a thread full of people who love the show. But keep going, it seems you're having fun.tnsply100 said:Mentioning that I didn't care about one of the plotlines in S4 "gave away my troll"? Okay.
tnsply100 said:Themes are completely irrelevant here. What is being discussed is plot.
The argument being made is that the cops vs robbers plot is central to the Wire - so much so that there could not have been a season of the show without police going after criminals. In contrast, the show was able to survive just fine without having plotlines regarding : drug legalization (Hamsterdam), mayoral races, the school system, and the state of the media in various seasons.
You can read abstract themes like 'institutional inertia' in any plotline under the sun.
mellowyellowod said:Yeah, I really don't understand how someone watching season 1 simply as a serialized Law and Order could see it as one of the best seasons of TV ever. Season 1 was as strong as the other seasons in its statements about institutionalism, while the stories changed throughout the seasons, the majors themes were always a constant
Themes are completely irrelevant to my entertainment. Quite frankly I don't give a crap about what Simon wants to say about the middle class or the American city. I'm interested in seeing how the plot develops - how criminals outsmart each other, what type of techniques they will use to counter surveillance, etc. Whether the plot happens to make a grandiose statement about Institutions being resistant to change... I don't really care.The themes of the Wire are a huge part in what sets itself apart from other shows. Theme and plot aren't entirely exclusive things, the plot's purpose in a show like the wire is to drive home themes. You might not like the show, and that's fine, but to argue that themes aren't part of this argument is strange.
Like I said before, its also weird that you find season 1 to be the greatest season of television ever produced when you're trumpeting it as a well executed serialized cop show with no depth being important to you other than "cops fighting drug dealers", especially when you already said that there are dozens of other cop shows like it.
PhoenixDark said:How exactly was the "cops v robbers" detailed procedural stuff lacking in S2-S4? Because there were more side stories that didn't revolve around cops v robbers? S1 had plenty of side stories as well...
So you wanted the same thing over and over again but maybe slightly different each time? So fucking narrow minded, it's crazy.tnsply100 said:S1 did not have any side stories that took time away from the case. There was a laser sharp focus on the case and the people related to the case. You could initially argue that the Barksdales vs Omar was a side plot, but Omar became inextricably tied to the case halfway through the season with Bird's arrest. Can you tell me what 'side stories' you're referring to here?
S2 - Season 2 is nothing more than S1 with a different set of criminals (this is a good thing). S1 explored the street drug trade since in S1 the criminals were street dealers. S2 explored the docks since the criminals in S2 were dock workers. This was all fine except for a couple of points - much of the screentime was wasted on the Barksdales who were irrelevant to S2. Ziggy's antics were also quite frankly tiring. Still, second best season of the show.
S3 - Serious trouble here. Hamsterdam had no business being shown in the show. Cutty, Bubbles, Carcetti, etc had no business being in the show. Significant screentime wasted on these subplots which had nothing to do with the Stanfield/Barksdale hunt.
S4 - Quite frankly a joke. I don't need to explain here how pathetic the cops vs robbers plotline here was. No wiretap at all. Too much focus on Carcetti, kids, etc.
Acid08 said:So you wanted the same thing over and over again but maybe slightly different each time? So fucking narrow minded, it's crazy.
tnsply100 said:S1 did not have any side stories that took time away from the case. There was a laser sharp focus on the case and the people related to the case. You could initially argue that the Barksdales vs Omar was a side plot, but Omar became inextricably tied to the case halfway through the season with Bird's arrest. Can you tell me what 'side stories' you're referring to here?
S2 - Season 2 is nothing more than S1 with a different set of criminals (this is a good thing). S1 explored the street drug trade since in S1 the criminals were street dealers. S2 explored the docks since the criminals in S2 were dock workers. This was all fine except for a couple of points - much of the screentime was wasted on the Barksdales who were irrelevant to S2. Ziggy's antics were also quite frankly tiring. Still, second best season of the show.
S3 - Serious trouble here. Hamsterdam had no business being shown in the show. Cutty, Bubbles, Carcetti, etc had no business being in the show. Significant screentime wasted on these subplots which had nothing to do with the Stanfield/Barksdale hunt.
S4 - Quite frankly a joke. I don't need to explain here how pathetic the cops vs robbers plotline here was. No wiretap at all. Too much focus on Carcetti, kids, etc.
But it's all part of this overarching story with incredible ties to everything that happens in it. Everything fits together so well, all the different elements mixing together better than any other show I've seen. I would really like to see what you would suggest instead of it.tnsply100 said:As mentioned before, "cops vs robbers" is a genre - its not like David Simon invented it. It would only get as repetitive as the writers wanted it to. Its a writers job to come up with fresh ideas.
I would've had no problem with detectives going after white collar criminals in one season for instance (not politicians).
The Sbotkas and Horseface were criminals - hence the focus on them.PhoenixDark said:The criminals in S2 were the dock workers? What the fuck..?
Wallace's story is the story of a snitch being eliminated by Stringer. Integral part of the case IMO.In S1 you have the Wallace story, Bubbles and his friend,
Kima and her girlfriend, McNulty's divorce, etc
Too late for that don't you think?Maybe you should watch another show. The Wire isn't what you're looking for
Acid08 said:But it's all part of this overarching story with incredible ties to everything that happens in it. Everything fits together so well, all the different elements mixing together better than any other show I've seen. I would really like to see what you would suggest instead of it.
Still would very much like to know what you would suggest instead.tnsply100 said:I'm glad you (and others) enjoyed it. Some of us didn't - but that's to be expected.
I'm no writer, so I haven't spent much time dreaming up plotlines. As mentioned, the cops vs criminals genre is large. They could've had seasons tackling white collar criminals, perhaps another with the mafia families, another one with terrorists (no need to restrict the show to Baltimore), another season perhaps with some murder sprees...
The sky is the limit here... I'm no writer - but I'm confident that the whole cops vs criminals genre has not dried up.
PhoenixDark said:They were huge parts that took up large chunks, but many were deeply rooted in the criminal aspect. Hamperstam was all about cops v criminals, and had great implications for Avon's people for instance. It wasn't meaningless to the case.
Outside of the first season of The Wire, what other "cops v criminal" shows do you think are good or amazing? Have you seen The Shield?
Acid08 said:Still would very much like to know what you would suggest instead.
tnsply100 said:He changed his mind. Read his interviews - his original intention was to have a different wiretap target each season. I can find you links if you like.
See http://tv.ign.com/articles/742/742350p1.html
Originally, when the show was first conceived, we thought [the cops] would pick a different target each season and run a different case. And we kept to that idea, but having created the whole Barksdale universe, we felt that there was more to say about that world, and it dovetailed nicely into the political and reform season.
We didn't actually say it to HBO right away, because they would have thought we were crazy and thrown us out of the office, but our intention was to try to depict an American city and all of its internal problems and to address why it is that we can't solve those problems, and to reflect on that. And so we were looking at slicing up different pieces of the city every year.
PhoenixDark said:So basically a bunch of generic straight forward plots, ok. S2 did the mafia a bit, which some thought was convulted. Terrorism and white collar crime make no freaking sense. It's the streets of Baltimore, not New York
tnsply100 said:And? Who says that Wire has to stay on the streets of Baltimore?