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Capcom: Keep E3 expectations “in check,” but DmC a “maybe”

E

ezekial45

Banned
Amir0x said:
ezekial45 likes Ninja Theory.

These individuals actually have confidence that they can crank out a product that isn't festering dog shit, so the perspective they hold is fundamentally different.

Let us hope that once Ninja Theory fucks up DmC as we all know they will, that they'll once and for all be locked out of any major franchise in this industry. Minimize the damage with one sacrifice.
Click to expand...

And you're fine to think that. I find this hate for NT to be terribly over the top. I profoundly disagree with you, and i think you're sort of full of it (no offense), but i respect your stance. I don't respect the malice i see in this thread though. Anyway, even IF DmC doesn't turn out well, then that's that. I still believe i'm right in giving them a chance first.

I'll leave it there.

lunchwithyuzo said:
They already have. Eighting used it for MVC3.
Click to expand...

Not entirely. Capcom co-developed the game with them. Also, that's a studio within range of the main dev offices.
 
G

Green Biker Dude

Banned
Amir0x said:
ezekial45 likes Ninja Theory.

These individuals actually have confidence that they can crank out a product that isn't festering dog shit, so the perspective they hold is fundamentally different.

Let us hope that once Ninja Theory fucks up DmC as we all know they will, that they'll once and for all be locked out of any major franchise in this industry. Minimize the damage with one sacrifice.
Click to expand...
haha well. opinions are a funny thing

people losing their jobs is always a complicated matter, but at the same time you can't expect to stay employed when your stuff sucks
It's fine to dislike it, but personally i think it's a bit extreme to already resign the game to failure.

Also, backpedaling from what? I was responding to your original post. Then you edited in a few other sentences afterwards.
Click to expand...
your reply was about how the ninja theory apologists had the right to wait for more media. and they do. but it's one thing to wait for more media and another to try to damage control the situation and be constantly telling people they don't have the right to shit on the game. my post was about the latter.

i also gave examples of games where people "should've been thankful" for whenever they were mentioned. but anyway, this discussion is meaningless. for someone who was acting all smart, you sure don't understand anything, or are just playing dumb to not concede the points. no point continuing the discussion from here if you're just gonna be like that. and you liked ninja theory's previous games, so...
 
E

ezekial45

Banned
Green Biker Dude said:
i also gave examples of games where people "should've been thankful" for whenever they were mentioned. but anyway, this discussion is meaningless. for someone who was acting all smart, you sure don't understand anything, or are just playing dumb to not concede the points. no point continuing the discussion from here if you're just gonna be like that. and you liked ninja theory's previous games, so...
Click to expand...

That's a bit ignorant, but alright.
 
D

Deleted member 81567

Unconfirmed Member
While I don't dig the aesthetic of the new DmC I think Ninja Theory is going to deliver a solid action game. I have faith in them. I'm kinda appalled they won't be flaunting it in the year's biggest gaming conference. Maybe not ready yet?
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
ezekial45 said:
And you're fine to think that. I find this hate for NT to be terribly over the top. I profoundly disagree with you, and i think you're sort of full of it (no offense), but i respect your stance. I don't respect the malice i see in this thread though. Anyway, even IF DmC doesn't turn out well, then that's that. I still believe i'm right in giving them a chance first.

I'll leave it there.
Click to expand...

When I spent more than $100 on a companies games and so far have been met with products I can barely call functional, let alone good, that's where the malice steps in.

I start feeling like it's a personal mission to spread the word about how bad someone is, so that others can avoid the same mistake I made.

That said, in the case of Ninja Theory most people know they're shit. So I don't have to do much proselytizing. I do it anyway because they're that awful, but they sully their own reputation plenty enough without my help.
 
N

nckillthegrimace

Member
I can envision a future where DmC is both commercially and critically successful while still being an abject failure in the eyes of the fans. I mean they clearly did something in Enslaved that really appealed to reviewers; the metacritic average is fairly high at 82. I think they'll continue to do things to the game that are en vogue with reviewers: the game will be extremely linear; the combat will be more "accessible" (in this context relatively depthless); there will be sections to break-up the combat with mini-games, traversal, vehicles sections, or something similar; and the narrative will be at the forefront. Couple the relatively positive review scores with some intense marketing efforts, and, well, it might be a success. For example, see the success of Dragon Age II despite the online hatred expressed before and after its release.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is good, but DmC could most definitely be a success from Capcom's point of view. If you want classic DMC back, then pray this is a "test" that we fail.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Man, I just read through the latter part of the thread and I can't believe there are still people defending that pos developer Ninja Theory. I rented Enslaved on PS3 recently and was extremely happy I didn't buy it for £19 on sale when I saw it. It's fucking dogshit, it fails as an action game which is what it's supposed to be at its core.

I don't give a shit about the story, if NT are good at telling stories they should go and make movies, clearly they are a sub par game developer. The medium doesn't suit them one bit. The worst part of this is that NT made another dogshit action game before this in the shape of Heavenly Sword. The only reason they saw any kind of success with that is it was a near launch title, and had little to no competition and Sony pushed it big time. I got burned by HS, bought it day one for £40. I don't blame Sony, I don't think they knew how poor NT really were, I blame NT for their awful combat system (Goddess of War my left foot), and otherwise awful gameplay.

They even had the gall to complain that being single platform was hampering their sales potential. The only thing that really hampers their sales potential is the dogshit they churn out, and now, on the basis of two (I don't count the PSN game or Kung Fu Chaos) terrible games, they are being given the licence to reboot one of the best action franchises in existence while the original developer makes some Monster Hunter derivative game.

I really, really hope NT prove me wrong and they don't ruin DMC, because Capcom will kill/suspend the franchise. I would hate to see DMC die because of the incompetents at NT.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
nckillthegrimace said:
To be clear, I'm not saying this is good, but DmC could most definitely be a success from Capcom's point of view. If you want classic DMC back, then pray this is a "test" that we fail.
Click to expand...

the odd thing is Devil May Cry 4 sold extremely well. we didn't even need a revision. what we needed was them to cut out the repeat level design that game had, since the second half of DMC4 was super lazy.

Of course, the fact that it continued the fine series tradition of having the best action combat gameplay of any game in the genre allows it to rise above. And of course by default it demolishes anything Ninja Theory has ever even touched.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
ezekial45 said:
Not entirely. Capcom co-developed the game with them. Also, that's a studio within range of the main dev offices.
Click to expand...
Yes, just like they co-developed SF4 with Dimps and TVC with 8ing. It's still an outside studio who was given access to MTF. K2 is another one, though Capcom ended up buying them out.
 
T

The Bookerman

Member
I wanna see DMC, so I can once again hate Ninja theory's ridiculous artistic vision.

I'm sorry, but I can't stand Tameem Antoniades and his games.
 
GrayFoxPL

GrayFoxPL

Member
Amir0x said:
Sorry GreyFox if you're just going to whine about your ban because you're incapable of telling the obvious difference here the conversation is over. Go to PM if you're going to whine, but the answer is the same.

Personal insults = not allowed
Substantive Criticism = allowed.
Click to expand...

icCP3M.gif
 
G

Green Biker Dude

Banned
nckillthegrimace said:
I can envision a future where DmC is both commercially and critically successful while still being an abject failure in the eyes of the fans. I mean they clearly did something in Enslaved that really appealed to reviewers; the metacritic average is fairly high at 82. I think they'll continue to do things to the game that are en vogue with reviewers: the game will be extremely linear; the combat will be more "accessible" (in this context relatively depthless); there will be sections to break-up the combat with mini-games, traversal, vehicles sections, or something similar; and the narrative will be at the forefront. Couple the relatively positive review scores with some intense marketing efforts, and, well, it might be a success. For example, see the success of Dragon Age II despite the online hatred expressed before and after its release.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is good, but DmC could most definitely be a success from Capcom's point of view. If you want classic DMC back, then pray this is a "test" that we fail.
Click to expand...
capcom said they were rebooting dmc because they wanted it to sell 5 million copies. keep in mind dmc4 sold 2 million+, and they weren't satisfied. just sayin'.

i suspect they'll come out and claim this game "successful" even if it sells 200k, just to pretend they actually did the right thing - capcom hates listening to the fans. but they'll be doing some revisionism there. their original target before the fiasco was 5 million, even if they deny it later on.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
I don't see a problem with fans having a lack of faith in DMC. It doesn't mean that we're going to dislike it no matter what. I personally hope that it turns out to be amazing. The problem is that there's no reason to expect it to be. NT's track record doesn't indicate that they can make a great DMC game. Their games have largely been praised for their storytelling and that's really the last thing that DMC fans care about.

In general I actually feel sorry for NT because of the amount of pressure that they're under. The fan pressure is one thing, but Capcom is putting even more pressure on them. Capcom has said that they expect this game to score in the 90's on Metacritc. NT's current highest rated game is Enslaved at 82. They've also said that they want this game to sell 4-5 million units. Which is insane when you consider that GoW is the only series that can get to that number.
 
E

ezekial45

Banned
Amir0x said:
When I spent more than $100 on a companies games and so far have been met with products I can barely call functional, let alone good, that's where the malice steps in.

I start feeling like it's a personal mission to spread the word about how bad someone is, so that others can avoid the same mistake I made.

That said, in the case of Ninja Theory most people know they're shit. So I don't have to do much proselytizing. I do it anyway because they're that awful, but they sully their own reputation plenty enough without my help.
Click to expand...

That's really over the top, but fine. There's no point in arguing about it any further.

We'll see what happens at E3, or whenever they show it off.

lunchwithyuzo said:
Yes, just like they co-developed SF4 with Dimps and TVC with 8ing. It's still an outside studio who was given access to MTF. K2 is another one, though Capcom ended up buying them out.
Click to expand...

SF4 didn't use MT Framework.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
ezekial45 said:
That's really over the top, but fine. There's no point in arguing about it any further.

We'll see what happens at E3, or whenever they show it off.
Click to expand...

i never understand why people think stuff like this is over the top. You spend a lot of money on games, they're terrible, so you want to try to ensure other people don't waste their money and time. It seems only logical to me.
 
U

Urban Scholar

Member
Well with what Ami just said, I'm not liking DmC being a maybe. At least confirm a gameplay trailer? I would imagine the maybe is dependent on a running demo for the show or a gameplay trailer. It needs to show up to instill something, be it continued hate which is PR regardless.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Green Biker Dude said:
capcom said they were rebooting dmc because they wanted it to sell 5 million copies. keep in mind dmc4 sold 2 million+, and they weren't satisfied. just sayin'.

i suspect they'll come out and claim this game "successful" even if it sells 200k, just to pretend they actually did the right thing - capcom hates listening to the fans. but they'll be doing some revisionism there. their original target before the fiasco was 5 million, even if they deny it later on.
Click to expand...

I don't see why they picked Ninja Theory then. They will achieve neither of these stated goals. Should have left it in the capable hands of Itsuno and Tanaka, better yet they could have gone to Platinum Games and begged Kamiya to do it. The latter would achieve better ratings and similar sales to the new DmC reboot, but at least we know we would get a good game out of it.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
ezekial45 said:
SF4 didn't use MT Framework.
Click to expand...
I didn't say it did, but it was also developed during a period where Capcom wasn't sharing the engine and toolsets. Same deal with TVC, but they changed their stance and decided to hand it over to 8ing for MVC3. Niitsuma even talked about it being a shift in strategy for them.

I bet Dimps is using MTF on CxT.
 
D

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Relaxed Muscle said:
well MK it's only 2 characters on screen + the background, a DmC game has a lot more going on screen.
Click to expand...
and NR had some trouble making MK games run 60. With experience they made it work with MK9 and MKvDC to some extent.
 
S

sleepykyo

Member
nckillthegrimace said:
I can envision a future where DmC is both commercially and critically successful while still being an abject failure in the eyes of the fans. I mean they clearly did something in Enslaved that really appealed to reviewers; the metacritic average is fairly high at 82. I think they'll continue to do things to the game that are en vogue with reviewers: the game will be extremely linear; the combat will be more "accessible" (in this context relatively depthless); there will be sections to break-up the combat with mini-games, traversal, vehicles sections, or something similar; and the narrative will be at the forefront. Couple the relatively positive review scores with some intense marketing efforts, and, well, it might be a success. For example, see the success of Dragon Age II despite the online hatred expressed before and after its release.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is good, but DmC could most definitely be a success from Capcom's point of view. If you want classic DMC back, then pray this is a "test" that we fail.
Click to expand...

I can see this happening. Either way DMC is dead, either DmC will do well and take over or it'll bomb and it'll be Dino Crisis 3 all over again. It'll get blamed on the brand, rather the installment.

Though 5 million is a bit high, I assume that internally they must be expecting somewhere between 1 and 2 million. Basically a Bayonetta scenario where the game sells 1 million or so and was (relatively) cheap to make so it's still profitable.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
zomgbbqftw said:
I don't see why they picked Ninja Theory then. They will achieve neither of these stated goals. Should have left it in the capable hands of Itsuno and Tanaka, better yet they could have gone to Platinum Games and begged Kamiya to do it. The latter would achieve better ratings and similar sales to the new DmC reboot, but at least we know we would get a good game out of it.
Click to expand...

Supposedly, one of Capcom USA's producers was/is particularly buddy-buddy with Ninja Theory, and convinced Inafune to greenlight it when he was in one of his peak Westaboo moods.
 
R

Ra1den

Member
Father_Brain said:
Supposedly, one of Capcom USA's producers was/is particularly buddy-buddy with Ninja Theory, and convinced Inafune to greenlight it when he was in one of his peak Westaboo moods.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine it was very hard to convince Inafune. In the wonderful world of Inafune's brain, any game that seems "western" automatically sells twice as many copies. When I heard he quit Capcom I threw a grand party in my pants. Really unfortunate since he is originally responsible for some of my favorite franchises.

But this Capcom USA producer is sounding like the greatest villain in all of this. Maybe he will quit also and join Inafune in his new ventures, and together they can produce the most god awful shitty ass East-meets-West games ever conceived.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Generally Svennson could tell me it was raining outside and I would have to double check for myself.

Between the RE ports and several other contradictions, he should really be more careful when making announcements to ensure that they end up true, since it's generally helpful if people can believe what a higher up Capcom employee says.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they were holding their major announcements for TGS again.
 
W

watershed

Banned
So he says that they are "playing things close to the vest"

but that we shouldn't expect too much?

I think Capcom will have at least 1 or 2 big surprises/announcements like some fighting game for the NGP or monster hunter for the 3ds. Or something for the cafe.
 
N

nemesun

Member
Nirolak said:
On the MT Framework note, I don't think there's any English documentation, hence the issue.
Click to expand...
That's also what I heard. But in reality, it's utterly BS reason to not share the engine with their western counterparts.
 
T

Tron 2.0

Member
sleepykyo said:
...Though 5 million is a bit high, I assume that internally they must be expecting somewhere between 1 and 2 million. Basically a Bayonetta scenario where the game sells 1 million or so and was (relatively) cheap to make so it's still profitable.
Click to expand...
How much did Devil May Cry 4 sell?

The whole point of giving their franchises over to Western developers was to expand the fan base to people who might be turned off by Japanese game design.

So I can't imagine they expect it to sell less than DMC4.
 
Zomba13

Zomba13

Member
I'd rather DmC be a no show. A no show foreeeeevvvvveeeeeeerrrrrr.

I'd love if all Capcom had to show this E3 was that DmC is getting cancelled or redone by Capcom into a proper DMC game with proper Dante.
 
P

Pureauthor

Member
I can't think of anything that has actually been announced that I'm interested in seeing from Capcom.

Unless you count localization decisions. (Where's Last Ranker and AAI2?)
 
B

BeautifulMemory

Member
Amir0x said:
i never understand why people think stuff like this is over the top. You spend a lot of money on games, they're terrible, so you want to try to ensure other people don't waste their money and time. It seems only logical to me.
Click to expand...


He also doesn't understand that people can be passionate about their franchises and that having their one of the favorites fall into the hands of an unproven, complete opposite in terms of philosophy and game-play design developer, might bring rage to the fans.

And he also doesn't understand that a shitty game to a much-anticipated franchise will only waste people's time---the time and money and resources spent on this "DmC" will only push the legit next entry of DMC back to more years of waiting.

Give it a chance? I never wanted this shit.

And there is no "rational" or "over-the-top" about it, it's about being passionate for what you like
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
sleepykyo said:
Wait, Dragon's Dogma is by the DMC team? What happened?
Click to expand...
Capcom wanted to make new IPs, but all the new IPs they made in the West bombed.

As such, they farmed out almost all of their major IPs to unproven Western studios while their Japanese teams worked on building new IPs like Lost Planet and Dragon's Dogma.
 
P

Pureauthor

Member
Nirolak said:
Capcom wanted to make new IPs, but all the new IPs they made in the West bombed.

As such, they farmed out almost all of their major IPs to unproven Western studios while their Japanese teams worked on building new IPs like Lost Planet and Dragon's Dogma.
Click to expand...

This is a brilliant strategy that cannot go wrong in any way at all.
 
C

Criminal Upper

Banned
I almost don't want it to be there.

I'm actually starting to hope for a DNF-style development cycle where we keep getting to put off seeing/playing the thing for as long as possible.
 
Nemesis_

Nemesis_

Member
So, no new announcements, just updates on already existing projects?

Nice for them to admit it early but still disappointing. I WANT SO MANY NICE THINGS, CAPCOM!
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
Nirolak said:
Capcom wanted to make new IPs, but all the new IPs they made in the West bombed.

As such, they farmed out almost all of their major IPs to unproven Western studios while their Japanese teams worked on building new IPs like Lost Planet and Dragon's Dogma.
Click to expand...
It's driving me crazy that I can't remember any of the IPs from either scenario besides DmC and the new RE game.
 
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