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Half Life 3 accidentally revealed?
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
charlequin
Banned
Flying_Phoenix said:
Nothing I said is particularly controversial amongst general shooter enthusiasts! You are not gonna find almost anyone who praises Half-Life for its visceral and satisfying gunplay. It's always been a series that could get away with underdelivering in this area because of how strong it is elsewhere.
StevePharma said:
I don't want it to mirror CoD at all! (For example, I pretty much hate iron sights across the board.) The most direct comparison I could make is probably that despite using the same engine as Half-Life, Counter-Strike has far better gunplay (and better gun variety and "feel") than HL, even using only real-world guns.
The Librarian
Banned
The shotgun in HL2 is my favorite weapon. I think it certainly has that "oomph." I've said this before, but I'll say it again: "I can take on anything with the shotgun. Give me enough shotgun shells and I'll take down the Citadel itself."
rollingstart
Banned
The only failure of HL2 gunplay is the impact of hitting an enemy. It feels like they have two states: unfazed and limp ragdoll. Otherwise, the shootouts are still very exciting.
charlequin said:
I'm one of those who's continually mystified when people complain about "gunplay" in HL and I'm left to wonder why they are looking for things in HL that simply don't matter to it. I find the weapons very satisfying, even if they're not "visceral".
Why would you say ammo is poorly thought out? Yes, there's little of it compared to some games, but could that not be a conscious design decision? I appreciate that HL and games like it provide a challenge in its weaponry; it is clearly not a run-and-gun shooter.
The same goes for precision; one obviously cannot go for realism in shooters (no fun), so one component that can make it fun is making the player use all of their arsenal, but manage it wisely. Other shooters go for the all-out destruction infinite ammo carnage; why hold HL's more refined style against it?
Also, am I the only one who's grown weary of the word "visceral"? To me, that word is part of the dudebro vocabulary now.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
You kiddin? They are not accurate at all.NBtoaster said:
And well, I completely disagree with the whole "Alyx is the protagonist" and Morgan is mute on purpose ideas. Alyx is emotional support. And of course Gordon is mute on purpose--if he wasn't that would be a fucking huge mistake. Just because it's a design decision doesn't mean it's a good decision.
Also, the lack of ammo is a dumb design decision as well. You're forced to cycle through all of your weapons, though the only one that's actually useful is the shotgun (and maybe the alien SMG). The rest either have extremely low ammo or don't have ammo pickups often.
Again, JUST BECAUSE IT'S A DESIGN DECISION DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A GOOD DECISION.
The Librarian
Banned
I READ YOU LOUD AND CLEAR.CoffeeJanitor said:
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Nice rebuttal.Dax01 said:
Episode 2 went a long way toward making the weapons a lot more "visceral" to use, I think (and I use that in the most literal sense possible, guts!). While the blood sprays and antlion gibbing look over the top to some, they leave no doubt in your mind that you're hitting your target and that you're doing significant damage. In those regards it's a much better feedback system than what was in HL2 and Episode One, which was often missed by the player altogether.
I wouldn't mind a retooled gore system a la Left 4 Dead 2 appearing in Half-Life 3, with some tweaks. Combine Soldiers and Synths wouldn't gib easily on account of their armor, whereas the lesser antlions and zombies would gib often. Oh, and you'd be able to finally crowbar headcrabs into goop again!
Oh, and I'm a total Crossbow fiend. Love the feel of the weapon, it's just satisfying to overcome gravity and nail a long distance shot, and to adhere your target to the surface behind them on top of that. KSHNK!
The Magnum, Shotgun, and Gravity Gun are in the tier below it for me. Learning to zoom-snipe with the Magnum turns it into a genuine sniper rifle, and this can even be done without a crosshair with practice. One of the more enjoyable weapon skills in the game for me. The Shotgun can be relied upon virtually anywhere so long as there's cover and middle-ground, and letting off both barrels and taking down an enemy in one salvo is most enjoyable. And of course there's the Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator, which is hands-down one of the favourite tools I've laid hands on in a game. Versatility is what it excels at, I can haul extra munitions or supplies, I can turn rubble into weaponry, or use such defensively to shield myself, I can impede enemy movement with it, and under certain conditions I can kill enemies with it directly and use their corpses as kinetic ammunition. Further, I have ample reason to love the sort of novel physics-intensive combat that it directly or indirectly inspired.
The AR2 more or less straddles between the good and unremarkable weapons for me. The accuracy is nice to have, but there's something missing from the operation of the weapon. I'm thinking a heat wave distortion effect in the air around the gun whilst firing would be a nice touch, and the alternate fire disintegration effect could use some love in HL3. Portal 2 retouched its own disintegration effects beautifully, incidentally.
The Pistol and SMG certainly could be a lot more engaging to use, but outside of redoing sounds it's a tricky question. One wouldn't want them to usurp another weapon's role in the "sandbox" needlessly. A twist to their alternate fire modes might do the trick.
The SMG's alternate fire mode is already fairly enjoyable, but I wonder what element could be added to increase its appeal. Perhaps holding down the trigger could enable a timed grenade mode, glowing red and expiring some sort of timer before exploding. Frag Grenades in turn could perhaps take on some sort of new anti-vehicle function in addition to their uses against ground troops (slowing down Synths could be a useful function).
The USP Match (pistol) doesn't have an alternate fire mode to begin with, but I'm immensely curious about what it'd be like to partially merge its function with that of a weapon cut from HL2's own development: the Flare Gun. It'd be the sort of thing that players would love to have on hand with Zombies and Soldiers about, but it would be easily balanced too by the necessity of collecting flares from the environment. You could even work unique gameplay sections out of it, such as running around in a zombie hell level with scarce pistol ammo and timely flare caches.
I wouldn't mind a retooled gore system a la Left 4 Dead 2 appearing in Half-Life 3, with some tweaks. Combine Soldiers and Synths wouldn't gib easily on account of their armor, whereas the lesser antlions and zombies would gib often. Oh, and you'd be able to finally crowbar headcrabs into goop again!
Oh, and I'm a total Crossbow fiend. Love the feel of the weapon, it's just satisfying to overcome gravity and nail a long distance shot, and to adhere your target to the surface behind them on top of that. KSHNK!
The Magnum, Shotgun, and Gravity Gun are in the tier below it for me. Learning to zoom-snipe with the Magnum turns it into a genuine sniper rifle, and this can even be done without a crosshair with practice. One of the more enjoyable weapon skills in the game for me. The Shotgun can be relied upon virtually anywhere so long as there's cover and middle-ground, and letting off both barrels and taking down an enemy in one salvo is most enjoyable. And of course there's the Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator, which is hands-down one of the favourite tools I've laid hands on in a game. Versatility is what it excels at, I can haul extra munitions or supplies, I can turn rubble into weaponry, or use such defensively to shield myself, I can impede enemy movement with it, and under certain conditions I can kill enemies with it directly and use their corpses as kinetic ammunition. Further, I have ample reason to love the sort of novel physics-intensive combat that it directly or indirectly inspired.
The AR2 more or less straddles between the good and unremarkable weapons for me. The accuracy is nice to have, but there's something missing from the operation of the weapon. I'm thinking a heat wave distortion effect in the air around the gun whilst firing would be a nice touch, and the alternate fire disintegration effect could use some love in HL3. Portal 2 retouched its own disintegration effects beautifully, incidentally.
The Pistol and SMG certainly could be a lot more engaging to use, but outside of redoing sounds it's a tricky question. One wouldn't want them to usurp another weapon's role in the "sandbox" needlessly. A twist to their alternate fire modes might do the trick.
The SMG's alternate fire mode is already fairly enjoyable, but I wonder what element could be added to increase its appeal. Perhaps holding down the trigger could enable a timed grenade mode, glowing red and expiring some sort of timer before exploding. Frag Grenades in turn could perhaps take on some sort of new anti-vehicle function in addition to their uses against ground troops (slowing down Synths could be a useful function).
The USP Match (pistol) doesn't have an alternate fire mode to begin with, but I'm immensely curious about what it'd be like to partially merge its function with that of a weapon cut from HL2's own development: the Flare Gun. It'd be the sort of thing that players would love to have on hand with Zombies and Soldiers about, but it would be easily balanced too by the necessity of collecting flares from the environment. You could even work unique gameplay sections out of it, such as running around in a zombie hell level with scarce pistol ammo and timely flare caches.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Fredescu said:
I played it for fifteen minutes and hated it. Then again I played it for fifteen minutes.
I'll definitely give the game a dab again. I just have so many awesome games on my plate right now. And Steam Summer Sale is right around the corner.
Then why are there people in this very thread arguing against it?charlequin said:
charlequin said:
Regardless, I don't really care if it isn't controversial with shooter enthusiasts.. I just couldn't disagree more. I feel that the strange sounds to the guns and the weird feel of it just adds to the surrealness to the game.
CoffeeJanitor said:
Yes, Alyx provides emotional support at some junctures, but that isn't by far her only contribution. Blindly asserting that it is won't win you any ground here. And pray tell, if Alyx isn't the protagonist (main character, in other words), who is? Who else could possibly hold that distinction?
Design decisions can be bad, certainly. These particular decisions serve a function of narrative, and I find that they serve it well. These sort of decisions allow the player to step into the world Valve created unimpeded by disembodied voices and directorial camera cuts, and the vision we take in isn't filtered through those lenses. That's a valid approach to storytelling to games, and decisions such as this are an important component.
--
You don't find the Crossbow, Magnum, Gravity Gun, Rocket Launcher, and Bugbait useful? Really? Those are some of the most lethal weapons in the game right there. It's also puzzling that you gloss over the fact that the pistol and SMG have voluminous ammunition reserves, and that the AR2 runs empty quicker than most weapons (as it doesn't have many rounds in reserve). And while 3/5 of the weapons I mentioned above certainly are shallow in terms of reserves, their worth is blatant.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I liked the feeling of being absolutely alone in HL.
That was kind of lost in HL2.
That was kind of lost in HL2.
That can be said about most if today's FPS games. They seemed to be very focused on squads or AI teammates placed in an epic setpiece full of scripted events.balladofwindfishes said:
Theres very little exploration and feelings of isolation in todays first person shooters, it seems. Then again, if there were people would complain.
charlequin
Banned
Flying_Phoenix said:
Because Half-Life in particular has a lot of fans who aren't otherwise shooter enthusiasts.
Scipius said:
It's a shooter, innit? The vast majority of your gameplay activity involves using guns to shoot things.
I'm sure it is, it's just a poor one. HL2 doesn't really have weapons that are designed to be tactically distinct enough that having to very carefully pick a weapon in each situation is worthwhile -- especially since 90% of the time you're fighting enemies who fall into exactly two categories, and the other 10% you're fighting vehicles and have no choice but to use the rocket launcher.
There are other games that use limited ammo to force constant weapon choice in gameplay in a satisfying way; the biggest difference is that these games have good arsenals to start with (and good bestiaries, which HL1 has but HL2 does not) so you're actually making interesting choices. And these games tend to make other choices that support this gameplay style: HL2 tends to have very arbitrary ammo placement, whereas many other games will consciously fill up your ammo and then send you into a specific area that'll heavily drain it before filling it up again.
VariantX04
Loser slave of the system :(
Shamelessly stolen from the Breaking Bad thread:
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
The shotgun is damn near perfect. The sounds, the impact, the ragdolls all feel just right. Except they lowered it from 8 rounds to 6 those balancing assholes.Zeliard said:
And that's my entire defense lololol.
legacyzero
Banned
AgentWhiskers said:Shamelessly stolen from the Breaking Bad thread:
That looks cool, but I just cant shake all of the Hugh Laurie ones..
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I want Gordon to be a legitimate badass so my vote goes with Cranston.legacyzero said:
The fact that Bioshock had a person talking in your ear through the radios at regular intervals probably made a huge difference. If a shooter was released today with as long a gap of no one talking at the player as parts of Half Life 2 like Highway 17, many people would probably feel like it was too lifeless. I thought Valve struck a pretty good balance of human interaction to isolation in Half Life 2, with a presence like Gregory showing up just in time to change up the mood in Ravenholm. However the average FPS of 2006-2011 has the ratio skewed completely in one direction with "RAMIREZ, GO DO X" and the like.Orellio said:
DennisK4 said:
They should since they've steadily improved with Left4Dead. Then again, Counter-Strike always had good gunplay and that didn't affect HL2.
My biggest disappointment with HL2 is the lack of aliens. I just loved how creative they got with the alien design and alien AI in the original, such as the Houndeye and the blind Tentacle. Gearbox added a lot to the game with the new alien enemies in Opposing Force. Imagine my shock when HL2's creature design ended up so bland. I expected Valve to go crazy with HL2 and improve on the alien design and pack AI of the original. At least, the Hunters in episode 2 are a step in the right direction.
Stallion Free said:
Still too low powered for my tastes. I had to console it and turn the ammo into 50 round spread birdshot to have fun with it.
Angry Fork
Member
I didn't really like the 2nd half of Half Life. I mean it was entertaining but the first half is sooo much better because you're alone more and there's better atmosphere, it feels more horror oriented and you're not sure what's happening. In games like Half Life, Bioshock, Silent Hill etc. I honestly feel like atmosphere is one of if not the most important thing in the game. It's what keeps me replaying them over and over.
Half Life 2 had suuuch a good dystopian atmosphere imo which is why I tend to enjoy it more than the first game. Once you encounter
in HL1 the game kind of focuses more on just throwing a shit ton of guys at you all the time. It's action packed and fun but at least in HL2 (and the episodes) they have puzzle stuff (which I personally loved because I was a big fan of the physics but I guess that's not a popular opinion around here) and the dystopian alone-feeling 'beware of your overlords watching you' kind of thing HL2 provided. The beginning of HL2 when you get off the train and you see the combine people telling people what to do, and the camera flash stuff in your face etc. I love that kind of stuff.
I basically want HL3 to be a mix of 1 and 2. Keep stuff from the first half of HL1 where there's a horror, dark kind of feeling and also keep the dystopian constantly-running away feeling. The action/shooting parts of HL for me are just a means to continue into new areas and experience new settings/atmosphere. I don't play the games to have fun shooting people I enjoy them because they provide a feeling few other FPS' do.
Half Life 2 had suuuch a good dystopian atmosphere imo which is why I tend to enjoy it more than the first game. Once you encounter
the military trying to kill you
I basically want HL3 to be a mix of 1 and 2. Keep stuff from the first half of HL1 where there's a horror, dark kind of feeling and also keep the dystopian constantly-running away feeling. The action/shooting parts of HL for me are just a means to continue into new areas and experience new settings/atmosphere. I don't play the games to have fun shooting people I enjoy them because they provide a feeling few other FPS' do.
Really surprising to hear how many people dislike the gunplay.
I find the look, reloading animations and sound of the guns to help define half-life. I also find that the (and this sounds kinda fucked up) blood splatter and death animations, and especially the radio sound that the enemies make when they die to be incredibly satisfying.
Having said that, it would be very surprising if valve didn't overhaul the gun-play completely, even if it sacrifices a bit of the half-life uniqueness, as they will want to get high scores with reviewers, and that will be one of the first points of criticism.
Personally I hope that they keep the gunplay mostly intact, perhaps add better hit animations on different parts of the body kilzone style. Will be very disappointing if they bring in iron sights, but its most likely going to happen.
Also this ^^
The atmosphere of half life is bar far and away the best part of the game.
I find the look, reloading animations and sound of the guns to help define half-life. I also find that the (and this sounds kinda fucked up) blood splatter and death animations, and especially the radio sound that the enemies make when they die to be incredibly satisfying.
Having said that, it would be very surprising if valve didn't overhaul the gun-play completely, even if it sacrifices a bit of the half-life uniqueness, as they will want to get high scores with reviewers, and that will be one of the first points of criticism.
Personally I hope that they keep the gunplay mostly intact, perhaps add better hit animations on different parts of the body kilzone style. Will be very disappointing if they bring in iron sights, but its most likely going to happen.
Angry Fork said:
Also this ^^
The atmosphere of half life is bar far and away the best part of the game.
Angry Fork said:
People probably didn't think the physics puzzles were a bad idea to break up the action, just that some of them seemed arbitrary. Like, as though Gordon Freeman's grand opus would have been prematurely ended if he had been a few cinderblocks short of completing his plywood ramp. Using the physics was much more engaging when it was linked with combat. Even sliding explosive barrels down the goop to deal with barnacles is technically a physics puzzle, but it seemed like a logical obstacle and a logical way to deal with it.
Mr. B Natural said:
Same feelings.
Maybe I have started to play HL2 5 or 6 times and due to slow pacing, boring story i stopped at different levels of the game. I think my record is the prison level or some some building looks like a prison with flying vehicles shooting at you.
I have played more slower games and i dont expect every FPS shower me with explosions everytime i blink, but there were no sense of progression in hl2. I meet with some ppl they tell me to go somewhere and for the enxt few hours or areas i dont see any other human being or any story progression. Yeah Demon's Souls is like that too but it had great challenging gameplay to keep me playing.
Good news?Angry Fork said:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/240672/news/gabe-newell-next-half-life-needs-to-scare/
Karma Kramer
Banned
this thread is bullshit
hl2 is the best game ever made
hl2 is the best game ever made
I hope Half Life 3 is being developed for the next generation of consoles (since being developed as a PC-centric game does not exist as a concept any more). I still remember the disbelief and excitement of seeing that Half Life 2 demo of how physics will work, how lighting works etc. I wish 3 would be as huge a leap, which would only be possible with current cutting edge PC tech.
Not to mention the RAM and HD issues that would force it to be another corridor shooter with little terrain variety if released now. I want it bad, but I prefer to wait for it to be what it should be.
Also, Half Life 1 and 2 are the greatest FPSs ever developed, the debate in this thread is nonsensical to me
Not to mention the RAM and HD issues that would force it to be another corridor shooter with little terrain variety if released now. I want it bad, but I prefer to wait for it to be what it should be.
Also, Half Life 1 and 2 are the greatest FPSs ever developed, the debate in this thread is nonsensical to me
The Librarian
Banned
Welp. I started another Half-Life 2 playthrough thanks to this thread.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Half-Life 2 is to Half-Life 1 what Bioshock is to System Shock.poisonelf said:Also, Half Life 1 and 2 are the greatest FPSs ever developed, the debate in this thread is nonsensical to me
OH YES, I WENT THERE.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
That's actually a pretty solid comparison barring Bioshock's weak finale.Funky Papa said:
eso76
Member
used to think hl2 was lacking in gunplay department (not that it's relevant to the game at all imho) myself, but i remember the part in episode 2 where you're hiding in that house surrounded by combines as one of the most thrilling shootouts in the history of fps ever.
Other than that, wake me up when hl3 is accidentally released
Other than that, wake me up when hl3 is accidentally released
He hasn't played HL for sure cause it IS the best game ever made.DennisK4 said:
I agree that the shotgun being dumbed down is particularly unsatisfying compared to the perfect one in HL (that double shot HNNNNGG). What's bizarre is that the impact, the feeling of the enemies shooting you is very good. I wonder why they didn't do the same for Gordon. Maybe they thought that the GGun was too powerful or they wanted us to fell it was the most powerful weapon. Hell, even the RPG sounds and feels like a toy D:
As for the original subject of the thread, I don't understand the logic to justify the probability of this being true. The guy got banned and his thread deleted and it's wierd all this happened? If he was trolling wouldn't he be banned all the same?