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dragonelite · Mar 17, 2012

szaromir said:
This post is horseshit. Halo's influence on the industry has been huge and isn't something imaginary. Halo 1 delivered a blueprint for modern day shooter (although the sad thing is it remains unmatched in the AI and weapon sandbox departments by any other dev), Halo 2 introduced matchmaking, Halo 3 stat-tracking that other big FPS games are only now just catching up.

To say that they are lower tier than Valve, Blizzard, Infinity Ward or whoever else is just blind hatred.

This, people are just discrediting Bungie for the fact that they made Halo and it became big.
They were way ahead of the curve on consoles hell on some fronts even ahead for pc fps games(Ai).

Atleast that is how a lot of reactions come over from reading this thread.

GrizzNKev · Mar 17, 2012

dragonelite said:
This, people are just discrediting Bungie for the fact that they made Halo and it became big.
They were way ahead of the curve on consoles hell on some fronts even ahead for pc fps games(Ai).

Atleast that is how a lot of reactions come over from reading this thread.

Quite a lot of hatred always seems to come up when Halo is mentioned. It's strange because usually it's the fans who speak out more often on their concerns for the game. Here on GAF, as long as you exclude the community thread because that's an exceptional concentration, it appears to be the opposite. It seems like a disproportionate number of people who have barely touched the series go to great lengths to discredit Bungie. It's strange.

Diddy Kong · Mar 17, 2012

Boomwood said:
You do realize that Halo is being developed by a different studio now, right?

Oh yeah, cus we've all played Halo 4 already..
A remake doesn't count, Bungie did that already.

Boomwood said:
And that most Halo players probably don't even know what Bungie is?

..this is a joke right?..

RooMHM · Mar 17, 2012

szaromir said:
This post is horseshit. Halo's influence on the industry has been huge and isn't something imaginary. Halo 1 delivered a blueprint for modern day shooter (although the sad thing is it remains unmatched in the AI and weapon sandbox departments by any other dev), Halo 2 introduced matchmaking, Halo 3 stat-tracking that other big FPS games are only now just catching up.

To say that they are lower tier than Valve, Blizzard, Infinity Ward or whoever else is just blind hatred.

Talking about horseshit you put Valve, Blizzard and IW together? Hahaha.

Halo's influence on the industry is the destruction of the FPS genre. The attempt to create a competitive community in halo is such a joke I can't even tell. It made people think the game was balanced, interesting to play and fast paced which it is not. It appealed to the hipster community that's all. What you list as achievements in game developping are either irrelevant (AI really?) or laughably wrong (weapon sandbox...). I don't consider match making as awesome or innovative. It's just a way to simplify matches setup for console gamers. How does this make the genre improve? It doesn't. Finally the stat tracking you talk about is probably the biggest joke of all. So Bungie introduced a Facebook type application in their game, how cool! You don't even know how many stats could be collected from PC games more than 10 years ago.

True big FPS were released around 2000 and were infinitely superior to any kind of Halo.

GrizzNKev said:
Quite a lot of hatred always seems to come up when Halo is mentioned. It's strange because usually it's the fans who speak out more often on their concerns for the game. Here on GAF, as long as you exclude the community thread because that's an exceptional concentration, it appears to be the opposite. It seems like a disproportionate number of people who have barely touched the series go to great lengths to discredit Bungie. It's strange.

It's not strange. Thanks to Halo the competitve FPS genre is dead. Thank you Bungie? It's not a matter of touching the game or playing it regularly it's just a matter of genre regression and over simplification to the point that it's not even interesting at all anymore. I'm quite torn between blaming Bungie or people who bought the game for killing my favorite genre. But I can only blame Bungie because if they didn't ally with Microsoft and organized a giant brain washing ad campaign for the launch of xbox maybe the FPS genre would still be in full shape?

Also, everybody knows that there are some improvements in the halo sequels (and some horrible design choices too) but the argument that Bungie sold the same game 5 times is valid because the changes are so minimal it can't justify more than a patch release except for a new campaign. I don't see more difference between the Halo's and HL/Op4.

szaromir · Mar 17, 2012

GrizzNKev said:
Quite a lot of hatred always seems to come up when Halo is mentioned. It's strange because usually it's the fans who speak out more often on their concerns for the game. Here on GAF, as long as you exclude the community thread because that's an exceptional concentration, it appears to be the opposite. It seems like a disproportionate number of people who have barely touched the series go to great lengths to discredit Bungie. It's strange.

It's OK these days, prior to 2007 when Halo was the biggest FPS franchise people felt so insecure about it that they trolled it on every occasion (especially people caught up in the platform wars). When Halo 3 came out, they changed the tune to how bad H3 is in comparison to the previous gen Halos, then COD4 came out and took over the mantle and people stopped feeling so insecure about it and I think it's getting "only" the same amount of hate as other AAA franchises.

Overdoziz · Mar 17, 2012

Haunted said:
They get plenty of credit. The fact of the matter is that they're not even close to the tier of devs mentioned in the OP (and in some posts afterwards).

Halo CE was definitely a milestone game, but they haven't come close to achieving anything close to it in the time since then, mostly because they were stuck with the franchise and only got the option to iterate on it.

I can understand where the OP is coming from, though. You spend too much time in the community threads of the respective game you sometime lose sight of the bigger picture. Appreciation for Bungie in HaloGAF threads is obviously on a completely different level than in general threads, and you get so used to the atmosphere in the community bubble that you feel it's the "correct" one and feel the need to voice that to the larger general community. I do admit that the same thing basically happened to me with SC2GAF.

~~Love me some Bungle.~~

GrizzNKev · Mar 17, 2012

RooMHM said:
It's not strange. Thanks to Halo the competitve FPS genre is dead. Thank you Bungie? It's not a matter of touching the game or playing it regularly it's just a matter of genre regression and over simplification to the point that it's not even interesting at all anymore. I'm quite torn between blaming Bungie or people who bought the game for killing my favorite genre. But I can only blame Bungie because if they didn't ally with Microsoft and organized a giant brain washing ad campaign for the launch of xbox maybe the FPS genre would still be in full shape?

Also, everybody knows that there are some improvements in the halo sequels (and some horrible design choices too) but the argument that Bungie sold the same game 5 times is valid because the changes are so minimal it can't justify more than a patch release except for a new campaign. I don't see more difference between the Halo's and HL/Op4.

Brain washing, right. It's obvious Bungie's goal in developing Halo was to specifically alienate competitive FPS players and destroy the genre.

I understand that it hurts when great genres die, but that's just the way the industry works. The result wasn't intentional. Halo did a few key things very well, they caught on and became popular. It wasn't a device to hurt your feelings. Also, as a fan of the series, I find your second statement grossly offensive. Halo has shown just as much difference between sequels as any other respectable franchise has. Save the hate for something that actually never changes, like CoD. I don't run around saying Call of Duty killed the FPS genre and blame IW and Treyarch for my intense hatred and sadness. I just find a different game that I enjoy and play that instead. Pointing fingers doesn't improve your argument.

I'm not going to address the first half of your post because I'd be wasting my effort on a lost cause. Please stop mourning the loss of something that is no longer popular and explore new kinds of games that you might enjoy instead!

MrBig · Mar 17, 2012

RooMHM said:
Talking about horseshit you put Valve, Blizzard and IW together? Hahaha.

Halo's influence on the industry is the destruction of the FPS genre. The attempt to create a competitive community in halo is such a joke I can't even tell. It made people think the game was balanced, interesting to play and fast paced which it is not. It appealed to the hipster community that's all. What you list as achievements in game developping are either irrelevant (AI really?) or laughably wrong (weapon sandbox...). I don't consider match making as awesome or innovative. It's just a way to simplify matches setup for console gamers. How does this make the genre improve? It doesn't. Finally the stat tracking you talk about is probably the biggest joke of all. So Bungie introduced a Facebook type application in their game, how cool! You don't even know how many stats could be collected from PC games more than 10 years ago.

True big FPS were released around 2000 and were infinitely superior to any kind of Halo.

It's not strange. Thanks to Halo the competitve FPS genre is dead. Thank you Bungie? It's not a matter of touching the game or playing it regularly it's just a matter of genre regression and over simplification to the point that it's not even interesting at all anymore. I'm quite torn between blaming Bungie or people who bought the game for killing my favorite genre. But I can only blame Bungie because if they didn't ally with Microsoft and organized a giant brain washing ad campaign for the launch of xbox maybe the FPS genre would still be in full shape?

Also, everybody knows that there are some improvements in the halo sequels (and some horrible design choices too) but the argument that Bungie sold the same game 5 times is valid because the changes are so minimal it can't justify more than a patch release except for a new campaign. I don't see more difference between the Halo's and HL/Op4.

let the mad flow through you

dragonelite · Mar 17, 2012

RooMHM said:
Talking about horseshit you put Valve, Blizzard and IW together? Hahaha.

Halo's influence on the industry is the destruction of the FPS genre. The attempt to create a competitive community in halo is such a joke I can't even tell. It made people think the game was balanced, interesting to play and fast paced which it is not. It appealed to the hipster community that's all. What you list as achievements in game developping are either irrelevant (AI really?) or laughably wrong (weapon sandbox...). I don't consider match making as awesome or innovative. It's just a way to simplify matches setup for console gamers. How does this make the genre improve? It doesn't. Finally the stat tracking you talk about is probably the biggest joke of all. So Bungie introduced a Facebook type application in their game, how cool! You don't even know how many stats could be collected from PC games more than 10 years ago.

True big FPS were released around 2000 and were infinitely superior to any kind of Halo.

It's not strange. Thanks to Halo the competitve FPS genre is dead. Thank you Bungie? It's not a matter of touching the game or playing it regularly it's just a matter of genre regression and over simplification to the point that it's not even interesting at all anymore. I'm quite torn between blaming Bungie or people who bought the game for killing my favorite genre. But I can only blame Bungie because if they didn't ally with Microsoft and organized a giant brain washing ad campaign for the launch of xbox maybe the FPS genre would still be in full shape?

Also, everybody knows that there are some improvements in the halo sequels (and some horrible design choices too) but the argument that Bungie sold the same game 5 times is valid because the changes are so minimal it can't justify more than a patch release except for a new campaign. I don't see more difference between the Halo's and HL/Op4.

wow thanks Dennis4k

The Faceless Master · Mar 17, 2012

"the first truly great online game for consoles. "

Phantasy Star Online

Overdoziz · Mar 17, 2012

I like Halo, killing angry space dudes in campaign and donging on bad kids in multiplayer. Feels good.

C.Dark.DN · Mar 17, 2012

Microsoft obviously owed a lot to them to the point where they wanted to enslave them in the Halo world for-ev-ver.

Had to break up. But their fling together was quite a ride.

LCGeek · Mar 17, 2012

Your premise ivnolves me forgetting that Rare a generation before had a huge million hit seller called goldeneye. The idea that halo made controlling fps games easier is bullshit and requires you to ignore the fact.

Taking what modders and other developers did in pc space and claiming it as your own is one of the most dishonest things I've ever seen in gaming. Sure when you cherry pick your arugment to be console only you can claim a lot of things. Sadly controls cannot both GE and Turok had DA all bungie did was borrow something that could now be done on one controller vs two and called it day after mapping out buttons.

Matchmaking was a huge step back. For casual play it works, long term it does nothing but drive people out who are forced to play crappy modes or with people they don't care for.

Also the AI of Halo doesn't compare to Ut99 which you could customize greatly and modify. The is AI stupid and buggy regardless anyone doing speed runs for the first 2 halos knew ways to make them bug out and be easy as hell regardless of difficulty. For the record I think AI sucks in general, because it's not, and regardless of genre there just isn't enough smarts scripting what we think is AI.

I'm glad bungie and most console developers eventually got rocked by COD sales serves them right for selling out instead of pushing the genre. Bungie gets all the credit and hate they deserve in my view.

GrizzNKev · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
Your premise ivnolves me forgetting that Rare a generation before had a huge million hit seller called goldeneye. The idea that halo made controlling fps games easier is bullshit and requires you to ignore the fact.

Taking what modders and other developers did in pc space and claiming it as your own is one of the most dishonest things I've ever seen in gaming. Sure when you cherry pick your arugment to be console only you can claim a lot of things. Sadly controls cannot both GE and Turok had DA all bungie did was borrow something that could now be done on one controller vs two and called it day after mapping out buttons.

Matchmaking was a huge step back. For casual play it works, long term it does nothing but drive people out who are forced to play crappy modes or with people they don't care for.

Also the AI of Halo doesn't compare to Ut99 which you could customize greatly and modify. The is AI stupid and buggy regardless anyone doing speed runs for the first 2 halos knew ways to make them bug out and be easy as hell regardless of difficulty. For the record I think AI sucks in general, because it's not, and regardless of genre there just isn't enough smarts scripting what we think is AI.

I'm glad bungie and most console developers eventually got rocked by COD sales serves them right for selling out instead of pushing the genre. Bungie gets all the credit and hate they deserve in my view.

I'd like to see evidence to support some of your wilder claims. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that bit about stealing work from modders and your description of the AI...

wut

see5harp · Mar 17, 2012

Halo was a game that appealed to hipsters and destroyed the competitive FPS genre. Okay then.

LCGeek · Mar 17, 2012

GrizzNKev said:
I'd like to see evidence to support some of your wilder claims. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that bit about stealing work from modders and your description of the AI...

wut

So you've never played UT99 and checked out how you customize bot behavior to an end that wasn't seen on pc or console end for sometime. Not my fault you couldn't do something like this over the last ten years. Also look up regenerating health on google that should give you a good idea of how bungie took something that was already being done and just called it day sticking it in to their game.

You need to see evidence of wild claims? Sounds like ignorance from a typical group. Better yet since you think I'm BS just look up my name, halo on the forums because tons of other halo posts with this mind set have me and others going way more in depth on halo supposed innovations.

FieryBalrog · Mar 17, 2012

DeathNote said:
Microsoft obviously owed a lot to them to the point where they wanted to enslave them in the Halo world for-ev-ver.

Had to break up. But their fling together was quite a ride.

Bungie broke up with MS back in 2007 or early 08.

Look at all the crazy new projects they've done since then!

Jacobi · Mar 17, 2012

Honestly, they get way more credit than they deserve...

GrizzNKev · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
So you've never played UT99 and checked out how you customize bot behavior to an end that wasn't seen on pc or console end for sometime. Not my fault you couldn't do something like this over the last ten years. Also look up regenerating health on google that should give you a good idea of how bungie took something that was already being done and just called it day sticking it in to their game.

You need to see evidence of wild claims? Sounds like ignorance from a typical group. Better yet since you think I'm BS just look up my name, halo on the forums because tons of other halo posts with this mind set have me and others going way more in depth on halo supposed innovations.

I didn't doubt anything you said about UT99. Also, implementing an idea in a game that has been used in another game isn't theft. Theft would be having someone else program it, and copy and paste the code directly into your game without giving them credit.

My "wut" was more directed at this:

The is AI stupid and buggy regardless anyone doing speed runs for the first 2 halos knew ways to make them bug out and be easy as hell regardless of difficulty. For the record I think AI sucks in general, because it's not, and regardless of genre there just isn't enough smarts scripting what we think is AI.

Nobody ever said we believed what we call AI in game to be a true, life-imitating artificial intelligence. That's just silly and I would love to know how you concluded that's what anyone believed. To say that Halo's AI can be bugged out or confused by a specific set of actions that the overwhelming majority of players don't seem to be aware of doesn't detract from the quality of the game at all, as that statement can be made for just about every single game with any AI in it at all.

FieryBalrog said:
Bungie broke up with MS back in 2007 or early 08.

Look at all the crazy new projects they've done since then!

Shows how much you actually know. They were still under a contractual agreement with MS to make ODST and Reach in that time period. Since they broke ownership they have been working on several other things, including Bungie Aerospace and Destiny.

The Librarian · Mar 17, 2012

RooMHM said:
Talking about horseshit you put Valve, Blizzard and IW together? Hahaha.

Halo's influence on the industry is the destruction of the FPS genre. The attempt to create a competitive community in halo is such a joke I can't even tell. It made people think the game was balanced, interesting to play and fast paced which it is not. It appealed to the hipster community that's all. What you list as achievements in game developping are either irrelevant (AI really?) or laughably wrong (weapon sandbox...). I don't consider match making as awesome or innovative. It's just a way to simplify matches setup for console gamers. How does this make the genre improve? It doesn't. Finally the stat tracking you talk about is probably the biggest joke of all. So Bungie introduced a Facebook type application in their game, how cool! You don't even know how many stats could be collected from PC games more than 10 years ago.

True big FPS were released around 2000 and were infinitely superior to any kind of Halo.

It's not strange. Thanks to Halo the competitve FPS genre is dead. Thank you Bungie? It's not a matter of touching the game or playing it regularly it's just a matter of genre regression and over simplification to the point that it's not even interesting at all anymore. I'm quite torn between blaming Bungie or people who bought the game for killing my favorite genre. But I can only blame Bungie because if they didn't ally with Microsoft and organized a giant brain washing ad campaign for the launch of xbox maybe the FPS genre would still be in full shape?

Also, everybody knows that there are some improvements in the halo sequels (and some horrible design choices too) but the argument that Bungie sold the same game 5 times is valid because the changes are so minimal it can't justify more than a patch release except for a new campaign. I don't see more difference between the Halo's and HL/Op4.

What's a true FPS?

Overdoziz · Mar 17, 2012

Halo threads on gaming side are always entertaining.

Proceed.

LCGeek · Mar 17, 2012

GrizzNKev said:
I didn't doubt anything you said about UT99. Also, implementing an idea in a game that has been used in another game isn't theft. Theft would be having someone else program it, and copy and paste the code directly into your game without giving them credit.

My "wut" was more directed at this:

Nobody ever said we believed what we call AI in game to be a true, life-imitating artificial intelligence. That's just silly and I would love to know how you concluded that's what anyone believed. To say that Halo's AI can be bugged out or confused by a specific set of actions that the overwhelming majority of players don't seem to be aware of doesn't detract from the quality of the game at all, as that statement can be made for just about every single game with any AI in it at all.

It is theft when you act like its something new to the genre. It's like ms types saying ms is great because they did such a thing while it was being done on other operating systems. Don't see the problem with that fine stop riding me for an opinion on the subject you don't agree with.

You don't do speed runs nor grind a game really quick to figure out mechanics like that. It's super obvious when you look at youtube vids or go to certain places people pool to compete in that sense how to break it off. Google, try it, or view it yourself. So what if the majority are unaware the software is the same and all it requires is for you to attempt to do it to see it. My point wasn't just that it wasn't true but that it wasn't this hyperbolic bs that it's great ai for its time. I would call decent or good at best great not even close. I will say this considering the game came out a few years afterward it wasn't Farcry bs.

Dax01 said:
What's a true FPS?

How about at the very least an fps that doesn't mock my shooting skills giving me a bs auto aim mechanism. I know it disqualifies a lot of console crap but that's sort of the point that crowd is making.

Man God · Mar 17, 2012

The Faceless Master said:
"the first truly great online game for consoles. "

Phantasy Star Online

This is especially funny considering the series didn't even have online play until Halo 2.

The Librarian · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
How about at the very least an fps that doesn't mock my shooting skills giving me a bs auto aim mechanism. I know it disqualifies a lot of console crap but that's sort of the point that crowd is making.

Stop mocking my shooter skills!!!!11!!1

GrizzNKev · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
It is theft when you act like its something new to the genre. It's like ms types saying ms is great because they did such a thing while it was being done on other operating systems. Don't see the problem with that fine stop riding me for an opinion on the subject you don't agree with.

You don't do speed runs nor grind a game really quick to figure out mechanics like that. It's super obvious when you look at youtube vids or go to certain places people pool to compete in that sense how to break it off. Google, try it, or view it yourself. So what if the majority are unaware the software is the same and all it requires is for you to attempt to do it to see it. My point wasn't just that it wasn't true but that it wasn't this hyperbolic bs that it's great ai for its time. I would call decent or good at best great not even close. I will say this considering the game came out a fear years afterward it wasn't Farcry bs.

How about at the very least an fps that doesn't mock my shooting skills giving me a bs auto aim mechanism. I know it disqualifies a lot of console crap but that's sort of the point that crowd is making.

Dude. A consumer calling a feature new because they have not experienced it before is not a justification for claiming Bungie committed theft. And what is an "ms type"? Should I even bother reading your next reply?

DR3AM · Mar 17, 2012

sooooo when will we hear about bungies next game? e3?

PapaJustify · Mar 17, 2012

Bungie had a good run with Halo. Introduced some fantastic mechanics to the console FPS. But that was back in the days. They played it quite safe by just releasing Halo over and over again, none of them was really a big improvement though apart from improved graphics.

If Bungie deserves more credit we will see when they pull off their new IP... whenever this may be

LCGeek · Mar 17, 2012

GrizzNKev said:
Dude. A consumer calling a feature new because they have not experienced it before is not a justification for claiming Bungie committed theft. And what is an "ms type"? Should I even bother reading your next reply?

It is theft to claim innovation for an idea you didn't invent and borrowed from others. I play fps games both pc and console I do not make platform distinctions just because you do. The games are still with in the same genre still serving basically the same types of consumers they have been largely for a decade.

I don't need to justify anything. I made a claim you don't like stop getting uppity about it.

As for reading replies I know to ignore yours from this point considering the only thing your arguing at this point is application of my points not if the accusations are true or not which you cannot deny. Also my point had nothing to do with that. If said consumer is familiar with a feature in this case me and I hear a developer claim it new doesn't really jive with my own experience. Again if you're ignorant about such features despite the fact they were in the genre then it falls on you and the developer. Bungie the developer wasn't ignorant of these things and knew full well when they were makign these games where the influence came from.

Dax buddy everyone should enjoy gaming as is. I miss the days when developers let you turn auto aim on and off at your own leisure not forcing me to partake in such a thing. I play shooters to test my shooting skills regardless if it's casual or competitive.

GrizzNKev · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
Bungie the developer wasn't ignorant of these things and knew full well when they were makign these games where the influence came from.

That's right. And they made damn good use of them too. It's like you think people are being serious when they say that Halo invented FPS.

Dax buddy everyone should enjoy gaming as is.

Good, at least you're willing to accept that you--

I miss the days when...

Wow. It's like I'm really on GAF.

I play shooters to test my shooting skills

Oh, I see. You've been in the wrong genre all along.

Overdoziz · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
It is theft to claim innovation for an idea you didn't invent and borrowed from others. I play fps games both pc and console I do not make platform distinctions just because you do. The games are still with in the same genre still serving basically the same types of consumers they have been largely for a decade.

I don't need to justify anything. I made a claim you don't like stop getting uppity about it.

As for reading replies I know to ignore yours from this point considering the only thing your arguing at this point is application of my points not if the accusations are true or not which you cannot deny. Also my point had nothing to do with that. If said consumer is familiar with a feature in this case me and I hear a developer claim it new doesn't really jive with my own experience. Again if you're ignorant about such features despite the fact they were in the genre then it falls on you and the developer. Bungie the developer wasn't ignorant of these things and knew full well when they were makign these games where the influence came from.

Dax buddy everyone should enjoy gaming as is. I miss the days when developers let you turn auto aim on and off at your own leisure not forcing me to partake in such a thing. I play shooters to test my shooting skills regardless if it's casual or competitive.

I like Halos gameplay, I couldn't give a shit if they were the first to add certain features.

monome · Mar 17, 2012

I m not sure they would have struck a deal with the house that makes CoD and WoW, a 10 tear plan and kept their IP if there was even the slightest ground they are not a god tier dev.

dragonelite · Mar 17, 2012

monome said:
I m not sure they would have struck a deal with the house that makes CoD and WoW, a 10 tear plan and kept their IP if there was even the slightest ground they are not a god tier dev.

Self funding me thinks

HocusPocus · Mar 17, 2012

Bungie is an awesome development team and I wish them the best luck in the world. I hate to say it though but they would have been SOOO much better to get back in bed with apple to be exclusive to IOS development. Bungie is just one of those companies that doesn't do well generating their own buzz. They really do best when they latch on to some bigger company and be part of their PR campaign. I just don't see them being an elite developer on their own as a multiplatform developer. Hope I'm wrong as I love multiplatform games.

HigherLevel · Mar 17, 2012

Man God said:
This is especially funny considering the series didn't even have online play until Halo 2.

I think if you actually read the OP you'd see I was talking about Halo 2 when I said that.

King_Moc · Mar 17, 2012

Halo is already given far more credit than it deserves. I think they need to show themselves to be good at more than one genre and franchise before they get mentioned along with the names in the OP.

HigherLevel said:
We all bought an Xbox just for that game. It showed FPSs could actually be fun on consoles and control well.

This had already been done multiple times. Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and Timesplitters all predate it. Not that whether it was on console or PC actually matters at all.

LCGeek · Mar 17, 2012

Overdoz1z said:
I like Halos gameplay, I couldn't give a shit if they were the first to add certain features.

The topic has to do with credit not to do with your enjoyment.

Arkaerial · Mar 17, 2012

I guess the only way I could answer this is if I break it down into two parts.

Halo - No, they have received tons of credit.

Myth & Marathon - Yes, they deserve more credit.

GrizzNKev · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
The topic has to do with credit not to do with your enjoyment.

In some areas, they popularized and perfected already existing ideas. In others, they innovated. Both of these resulted in increasing our enjoyment of their games. Is that really so hard to grasp? You keep acting like the world believes Halo was developed in a vacuum. Nobody thinks this way!

Overdoziz · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
The topic has to do with credit not to do with your enjoyment.

You could give Bungie credit for getting certain features right, not for coming up with them.

Trojita · Mar 17, 2012

I'm beginning to think no one played Timesplitters if they are crediting Halo with the idea of dual analog use in a FPS. It was probably used before that too.

dragonelite · Mar 17, 2012

Trojita said:
I'm beginning to think no one played Timesplitters if they are crediting Halo with the idea of dual analog use in a FPS. It was probably used before that too.

Even the press gives Halo that credit.

Overdoziz · Mar 17, 2012

Trojita said:
I'm beginning to think no one played Timesplitters if they are crediting Halo with the idea of dual analog use in a FPS. It was probably used before that too.

Timesplitter had odd aiming though, with the reticule going all over the screen n all.
I want a new Timesplitters...

zoukka · Mar 17, 2012

I don't even play Halo games anymore, but yes they are top of their game in the FPS genre. But to compare them to Valve, Nintendo EAD and Blizzard will just be pointless, when those publishers have made a lot of diverse games and multiple legendary IP's.

Bungie is like Sony Santa Monica in that regard, people remember them only for one IP.

King_Moc · Mar 17, 2012

Trojita said:
I'm beginning to think no one played Timesplitters if they are crediting Halo with the idea of dual analog use in a FPS. It was probably used before that too.

I think Goldeneye was first to this. It had an incredibly convoluted control scheme where you could use two controllers, if i remember right.

DR3AM · Mar 17, 2012

some people forget that bungie was a 1st party developer, they had to make halo games because they were funded by MS. you cant compare bungie with valve or blizzard or any other 3rd party developer in terms of IPs. they left MS because of that reason.

LCGeek · Mar 17, 2012

Overdoz1z said:
You could give Bungie credit for getting certain features right, not for coming up with them.

Again you want to see me do that check my post history. Not going to mention what is clearly obvious and been stated a billion times by anyone including myself who realizes bungie made most console developers in the fps genre grow up.

Overdoziz · Mar 17, 2012

LCGeek said:
Again you want to see me do that check my post history. Not going to mention what is clearly obvious and been stated a billion times by anyone including myself who realizes bungie made most console developers in the fps genre grow up.

Fair enough.

RooMHM · Mar 18, 2012

Dax01 said:
What's a true FPS?

I said "true big FPS". I meant the real legendary ones. Anyways I can answer your question by saying something simple and obvious to me:
A true FPS is a game where movement and tactics are as important as aiming.

When I said brainwash it's because the ad campaign was on a propaganda scale and tried to "educate" people with fallacies.

To everyone who very maturely pointed at trollface gifs and pictures I can only ask you this. Are you happy that games like q3 or even Half-Life can't exist anymore? The Arena shooters are gone, is this good for the genre?

Arnie · Mar 18, 2012

RooMHM said:
I said "true big FPS". I meant the real legendary ones. Anyways I can answer your question by saying something simple and obvious to me:
A true FPS is a game where movement and tactics are as important as aiming.

When I said brainwash it's because the ad campaign was on a propaganda scale and tried to "educate" people with fallacies.

To everyone who very maturely pointed at trollface gifs and pictures I can only ask you this. Are you happy that games like q3 or even Half-Life can't exist anymore? The Arena shooters are gone, is this good for the genre?

That's as blatant a contradiction as I've ever seen.

FyreWulff · Mar 18, 2012

Trojita said:
I'm beginning to think no one played Timesplitters if they are crediting Halo with the idea of dual analog use in a FPS. It was probably used before that too.

Goldeneye was the first console FPS game with dual analogs. Perfect Dark had them too.

Of course, Timesplitters is essentially the third Goldeneye-style game

There's a reason why Halo has a stick scheme called "Legacy", because it's emulating Goldeneye's control scheme.

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