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Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

DCKing

Member
If we're taking the Southern Islands series a starting point for the Wii U design, I think the Wii U GPU will end up with a 6 CU chip - 384 SPUs, 24 TMUs, and I guess 12 ROPs. A 10 CU-design on 28nm (Cape Verde) is 123mm^2, so I'm guess a 6 CU design on 32nm that omits some features like advanced UVD and perhaps uses a simpler-than-GCN architecture would creep in at just under 100mm^2 (that's just guesstimating though).

Let's not forget the Flipper die included a huge (for the time) chunk of 1T-SRAM. If they're actually using 32MB EDRAM in the Wii U GPU it's probably a seperate die like the Xbox 360 EDRAM. If Nintendo is as conservative as they seem to be, then their GPU die size budget is likely quite a bit smaller than 126mm^2. The 10MB EDRAM chip in the Xbox 360 was 80mm^2 at 90nm. A 32MB EDRAM die in the Wii U would be smaller on 28nm or 32nm, but it's still a chip that counts for costs.
 
I know people are back to tech talk but honestly I've made the decision to buy the Wii U no matter the tech what I want from Nintendo at E3 is for the light to dim and Porky's theme music to start playing followed by a backshot of a kid wearing a bookbag picking up a bat throwing it ROTC style in the air putting on a baseball cap then catching the bat do a quick spin to reveal Nes before the words Earthbound 2013 manifests on screen....

Oddly, even though I don't really care about oomph so much and am extremely curious about the application of the Wii U controller, I am definitely not in the day one camp unless something crazy happens that I'm not expecting. And Super Mario Universe isn't it. :p

Neither is Retro.

TimeSplitters 4. Or some feature of the controller that literally makes me say "holy shit" out loud at work.
 
Black LoZ, where Link can finally jump!

Black LoZ, where Link already comes equipped with a Master Sword of his own!

Black LoZ, where Link doesn't hear about Zelda's kidnapping for weeks!
 

AlStrong

Member
Also FYI Flipper was 180nm not 110nm.

That makes the comparison even worse. :p

Well if you have a better comparison with exact TDP's then of course post it, that's the best comparison I could think of given the info I have.

TDP for 4770 is 80W. I don't think the GC as a whole even approaches that (~20W? CPU/GPU/RAM/spinning drive).
 
Welcome, Racist-GAF, we missed you! :D


If we're taking the Southern Islands series a starting point for the Wii U design, I think the Wii U GPU will end up with a 6 CU chip - 384 SPUs, 24 TMUs, and I guess 12 ROPs. A 10 CU-design on 28nm (Cape Verde) is 123mm^2, so I'm guess a 6 CU design on 32nm that omits some features like advanced UVD and perhaps uses a simpler-than-GCN architecture would creep in at just under 100mm^2 (that's just guesstimating though).

Let's not forget the Flipper die included a huge (for the time) chunk of 1T-SRAM. If they're actually using 32MB EDRAM in the Wii U GPU it's probably a seperate die like the Xbox 360 EDRAM. If Nintendo is as conservative as they seem to be, then their GPU die size budget is likely quite a bit smaller than 126mm^2. The 10MB EDRAM chip in the Xbox 360 was 80mm^2 at 90nm. A 32MB EDRAM die in the Wii U would be smaller on 28nm or 32nm, but it's still a chip that counts for costs.

For further reading (for people who are glazing a bit at all the numbers here), you can go to this frequently linked speculative article, which goes into some detail on what these acronyms (like SPU and ROP) are.

Also, here is Xbox 360's graphics chip for comparison.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
I try to catch up a bit to check if a gafer-detective has found by chance this news while dissecting the web, and if not, i'll post the little info that i've promised a few days earlier.
 
I try to catch up a bit to check if a gafer-detective has found by chance this news while dissecting the web, and if not, i'll post the little info that i've promised a few days earlier.

Oh just do it allready. We've allready been to worse than N64 allready on the last few pages, so it can only get better from here on out.
 

MDX

Member
I'm just mentally preparing myself for Legend of Black Zelda, the new and controversial attention-grabber in the series to launch with the Wii U.

Shit, make Link black too. It'll be like Toon Link/8.8 controversies combined, times ten.


pr0gramm-1329264240453.gif
 
I try to catch up a bit to check if a gafer-detective has found by chance this news while dissecting the web, and if not, i'll post the little info that i've promised a few days earlier.

The latest info is that the Wii U is now "for sure" slower than the Xbox 360. So if it's that, you need not post it again.

;) People have been pretty crazy based on vaguely stated information; luckily, we have at least a rather certain baseline which explains how the Wii U is more powerful in pretty much every possible category but could still yield inferior performance in some cases
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
I try to catch up a bit to check if a gafer-detective has found by chance this news while dissecting the web, and if not, i'll post the little info that i've promised a few days earlier.

Ideaman you have gone a bit overboard with your teases as of late. Besides, I believe teasing or dangling any "information" that you have is bannable here. Either spit out what you got, or stick to speculating like the rest of us.

Edit: Obviously I speak for myself, and not anybody else on this board, but that is how I feel about it.
 

Azure J

Member
If we're taking the Southern Islands series a starting point for the Wii U design, I think the Wii U GPU will end up with a 6 CU chip - 384 SPUs, 24 TMUs, and I guess 12 ROPs. A 10 CU-design on 28nm (Cape Verde) is 123mm^2, so I'm guess a 6 CU design on 32nm that omits some features like advanced UVD and perhaps uses a simpler-than-GCN architecture would creep in at just under 100mm^2 (that's just guesstimating though).

Let's not forget the Flipper die included a huge (for the time) chunk of 1T-SRAM. If they're actually using 32MB EDRAM in the Wii U GPU it's probably a seperate die like the Xbox 360 EDRAM. If Nintendo is as conservative as they seem to be, then their GPU die size budget is likely quite a bit smaller than 126mm^2. The 10MB EDRAM chip in the Xbox 360 was 80mm^2 at 90nm. A 32MB EDRAM die in the Wii U would be smaller on 28nm or 32nm, but it's still a chip that counts for costs.

I think this is by and far way too conservative.
 
Well, even 720P/60FPS (because Nintendo will never skimp on framerate where it counts) with a MUCH more modern and powerful shader battery is going to make for an amazing-looking SMG3, for example.

But if, you know, we get 1080 instead, hey.
 
watch him take all day to catch up reading the thread and says good night before saying anything... :|

IdeaMan you are seriously going to hit backlash levels soon dude
 

WillyFive

Member
I hate 720p more than I hate 480p. It looks like it could be 1080, but it has that odd blur that keeps it from being as sharp as it should be. It's an in-between resolution and it just looks bad.

I don't want 720p next-gen.


Man, Ron Paul's campaign has really lost a lot of money.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
A news concerning the dev kits, as promised

Third-party studios will receive the "v5" dev kits very soon (before the next month). It's even possible that some just got them

- They are apparently the dev kits which where in possession of Nintendo lately (whereas third-parties had the V4).
- There is a noticeable increase of performances with them, a noticeable but not huge however. We don't know if this amelioration is due to a change of components, tweaking of the previously present ones (frequencies, etc.), or a global & light optimization of the hardware, the dev kit itself, the software development kit that may be linked to it, etc.

Some details about the context and assumptions:

- Except maybe big japanese studios (like Capcom), i doubt that other third-parties received these dev kits (much) earlier. It's likely that my sources are one of the firsts to be granted of the latest revisions. This means that all the declarations, the news, from foreign developers, that you've read until now, were in a V4 dev kit framework, before the release of these newest ones.

- A previous post of lherre indicated that Nintendo guys were testing an engine and saw slightly improved results on the V5 compare to V4.
Context: it was posted 1 month ago, when lherre decided to come out of his lair in answer to my very first message to confirm that Wii U was clearly closer to "2x than 5x xbox360". And he basically added that the expected more advanced dev kit in Nintendo headquarters at the time that i've talked about will not change dramatically the Wii U power status. So he surely knew of these engine benchmarks before my intervention, maybe some days, maybe some weeks.
Assumption: considering the 1month+ interval between these internal tests and the V5 delivery to third-parties (minus the dev kits assembly and shipping), there's a chance that the V5 dev kits in the hands of foreign studios have received even more hardware refinements and optimizations than the models used for these Nintendo tests some time before.

- They could have a different code name, but my sources called them V5, as in "the ones following the V4 that they currently develop on". Therefore, it appears they are a rather major revision.


[Now, a detail that could be important, but i'm not sure at all of it, as what my sources told me isn't clear and rely on subjectivity (maybe they haven't understood well what Nintendo said). Take that with caution, and it would be cool if a developer working on the Wii U could precise this.

- It seems these kits may be "near final"

It's possible that Nintendo still have more advanced dev kits, but apparently not to a point to constitute a real new future revision (perhaps just small increments in numbers like 5.1/5.2). There may be new dev kit shippings to come but it could point that there is a progressive stabilization in hardware changes. It could also be a word-confusion from my sources between "last" and "latest", or maybe Nintendo thought that when i gathered these infos (a few weeks) but in fact there will be new revisions in the work because they decided to modify the components again, etc. So big grain of salt for this part]

I hope we'll hear more about these dev kits, what kind of modifications occurred on them, and their performances.
 
watch him take all day to catch up reading the thread and says good night before saying anything... :|

IdeaMan you are seriously going to hit backlash levels soon dude

He needs to find something.to.tie it.to.

Oh JimBob already posted it.

I've never known one person know so.much about the WiiU

Its almost.like Iwata trolling us. Every time he says later I shall post something, he flicks his hair!
 

popeutlal

Member
Oh my, so Nvidia is wanting to put Kelper in smart phones/tablets/notebooks ...if that does happen, Wii U will have even more depressing graphics outlook compared to everything else.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
A news concerning the dev kits, as promised

Third-party studios will receive the "v5" dev kits very soon (before the next month). It's even possible that some just got them

- They are apparently the dev kits which where in possession of Nintendo lately (whereas third-parties had the V4).
- There is a noticeable increase of performances with them, a noticeable but not huge however. We don't know if this amelioration is due to a change of components, tweaking of the previously present ones (frequencies, etc.), or a global & light optimization of the hardware, the dev kit itself, the software development kit that may be linked to it, etc.

Some details about the context and assumptions:

- Except maybe big japanese studios (like Capcom), i doubt that other third-parties received these dev kits (much) earlier. It's likely that my sources are one of the firsts to be granted of the latest revisions. This means that all the declarations, the news, from foreign developers, that you've read until now, were in a V4 dev kit context, before the release of these newest ones.

- A previous post of lherre indicated that Nintendo guys were testing an engine and saw slightly improved results on the V5 compare to V4.
Context: it was posted 1 month ago, when lherre decided to come out of his lair in answer to my very first message to confirm that Wii U was clearly closer to "2x than 5x xbox360". And he basically added that the expected more advanced dev kit in Nintendo headquarters at the time that i've talked about will not change dramatically the Wii U power status. So he surely knew of these engine benchmarks before my intervention, maybe some days, maybe some weeks.
Assumption: considering the 1month+ interval between these internal tests and the V5 delivery to third-parties (minus the dev kits assembly and shipping), there's a chance that the V5 dev kits in the hands of foreign studios have received even more hardware refinements and optimizations than the models used for these Nintendo tests some time before.

- They could have a different code name, but my sources called them V5, as in "the ones following the V4 that they currently develop on". Therefore, it appears they are a rather major revision.


[Now, a detail that could be important, but i'm not sure at all of it, as what my sources told me isn't clear and rely on subjectivity (maybe they didn't understand well what Nintendo said). Take that with caution, and it would be cool if a developer working on the Wii U could precise this.

- It seems these kits may be "near final"

Maybe Nintendo still have more advanced dev kits, but apparently not to a point to constitute a real new future revision (perhaps just small increments in numbers like 5.1/5.2). There may be new dev kit shippings to come but it could point that there is a progressive stabilization in hardware changes. It could also be a word-confusion from my sources between "last" and "latest", or maybe Nintendo thought that when i gathered these infos (a few weeks) but in fact there will be new revisions in the work because they decided to modify the components again, etc. So big grain of salt for this part]

I hope we'll hear more about these dev kits, what kind of modifications occurred on them, and their performances.
So in other words, you are saying the v5 kit is closer to 4x stronger than xbox 360?
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Question:

How many times stronger is the Dreamcast to the N64?
 

DCKing

Member
I think Nintendo needs to finish up their hardware around now to start production. If the devkits haven't finished up it does probably still mean that the Wii U hasn't entered production yet. I think that rules out a June or July release at least, for what it's worth.
 
Originally Posted by IdeaMan:
A news concerning the dev kits, as promised

Third-party studios will receive the "v5" dev kits very soon (before the next month). It's even possible that some just got them

- They are apparently the dev kits which where in possession of Nintendo lately (whereas third-parties had the V4).
- There is a noticeable increase of performances with them, a noticeable but not huge however. We don't know if this amelioration is due to a change of components, tweaking of the previously present ones (frequencies, etc.), or a global & light optimization of the hardware, the dev kit itself, the software development kit that may be linked to it, etc.

Some details about the context and assumptions:

- Except maybe big japanese studios (like Capcom), i doubt that other third-parties received these dev kits (much) earlier. It's likely that my sources are one of the firsts to be granted of the latest revisions. This means that all the declarations, the news, from foreign developers, that you've read until now, were in a V4 dev kit context, before the release of these newest ones.

- A previous post of lherre indicated that Nintendo guys were testing an engine and saw slightly improved results on the V5 compare to V4.
Context: it was posted 1 month ago, when lherre decided to come out of his lair in answer to my very first message to confirm that Wii U was clearly closer to "2x than 5x xbox360". And he basically added that the expected more advanced dev kit in Nintendo headquarters at the time that i've talked about will not change dramatically the Wii U power status. So he surely knew of these engine benchmarks before my intervention, maybe some days, maybe some weeks.
Assumption: considering the 1month+ interval between these internal tests and the V5 delivery to third-parties (minus the dev kits assembly and shipping), there's a chance that the V5 dev kits in the hands of foreign studios have received even more hardware refinements and optimizations than the models used for these Nintendo tests some time before.

- They could have a different code name, but my sources called them V5, as in "the ones following the V4 that they currently develop on". Therefore, it appears they are a rather major revision.


[Now, a detail that could be important, but i'm not sure at all of it, as what my sources told me isn't clear and rely on subjectivity (maybe they didn't understand well what Nintendo said). Take that with caution, and it would be cool if a developer working on the Wii U could precise this.

- It seems these kits may be "near final"

Maybe Nintendo still have more advanced dev kits, but apparently not to a point to constitute a real new future revision (perhaps just small increments in numbers like 5.1/5.2). There may be new dev kit shippings to come but it could point that there is a progressive stabilization in hardware changes. It could also be a word-confusion from my sources between "last" and "latest", or maybe Nintendo thought that when i gathered these infos (a few weeks) but in fact there will be new revisions in the work because they decided to modify the components again, etc. So big grain of salt for this part]

I hope we'll hear more about these dev kits, what kind of modifications occurred on them, and their performances.
So in other words, you are saying the v5 kit is closer to 4x stronger than xbox 360?


Hey Thanks So Much For Posting That, IdeaMan. Extremely interesting, I was expecting less ^__^
 

Mr Swine

Banned
Nothing conclusive other than lherre agreeing with a couple things he's said. Take everything he's saying with a big grain of salt. We'll see how things actually turn out :p

I don't believe in Ideaman at all, I think he is a big phony. So until Nintendo rolls out Wii U at E3 I will see if he is a phony or not...
 

Donnie

Member
TDP for 4770 is 80W. I don't think the GC as a whole even approaches that (~20W? CPU/GPU/RAM/spinning drive).

XBox was what 80w?, so no GC wouldn't approach that (however if it was 20w I'd be shocked and even more in awe of the console then I already was).
 
okay IdeaMan you win... I hope V5 is the final dev kit no need for us to get our hopes up on anything stronger it seems very clear what Nintendo has gone for is very cautious and mild as always nothing spicy under the WiiU hood for us. So only the games will be the key yet again
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Nothing conclusive other than lherre agreeing with a couple things he's said. Take everything he's saying with a big grain of salt. We'll see how things actually turn out :p

Reading this message, it's like i'm a troll or something, i thought we were friends /sob


Thanks for the info, Idy!

Soo.. V5 being the possible last revision is interesting.

the first part of the info is 100% sure, big third-party studios will or have receive the "v5" dev kits around now. For the "near final" part, i'm not sure at all, it could be a confusion of words. I hope we'll have some developers hindsight about that, because a few weeks earlier, Nintendo apparently said something that pushed my sources to think that. Big N plans could have changed very recently also.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
okay IdeaMan you win... I hope V5 is the final dev kit no need for us to get our hopes up on anything stronger it seems very clear what Nintendo has gone for is very cautious and mild as always nothing spicy under the WiiU hood for us. So only the games will be the key yet again

When i promise something, i always deliver my little teddy bear :p
I just wanted to be sure that this info wasn't given already, and by saying "i try to catch-up before posting", i had some nice summary that avoided me to read through tons of new pages :p

And for your conclusions about the hardware, really, don't expect too much from it, but don't be disappointed in advance. From all i've heard, the guts aren't on par with current gen at all (edit: "aren't on part with current gen at all" = "they aren't just on par, they are superior"), and there's so much room for improvements, optimizations, and potential stretching of the Wii U capabilities that you'll say wow many times in front of your screen (for first-party titles in the first place obviously). I bet a video of myself running disguised as a Nintendo character in a Paris street by night that it will be the case :p
 

Nibel

Member
So.. silly question, but are there different devkit versions of the uPad? (or the components around it?)

Since the pad just streams stuff.. I don 't think so.

But maybe once when there has been problems with wireless communication with the console - just assuming.
 
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