cyberheater
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Pretty sure a decent compiler would take care of that. The majority of game code would essentially be the same.
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Wii U Speculation thread IV: Photoshop rumors and image memes
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Pretty sure a decent compiler would take care of that. The majority of game code would essentially be the same.
All that could mean is just that Wii U finally has unified shaders and that modern guff. The instruction sets could be vastly different.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
The low level ASM instruction set would be different but if you're coding in C++, the compiler would handle that. You could still use most of the existing game code without alteration.
MisterHero
Super Member
It means 1,000,000 on-screen zombies
Wii U will have games - this is the most important aspect it seems
Sure! It won't look like much, but it'll definitely be an upgrade. The logistics of having a proper room set-up for gaming is going to be the important part. No more having to share the living room, and both the Wii and the PC will be in the same area. I love that!
Par for the course? (pardon the pun.. har har.) But I'm kidding. It's a bit of a fair title, until we get some proper news and speculation going. Today has been damn good; the last damn good night we had was when Shocking shared his assessment of the U.Man this thread is full steam ahead and it's nice to see some actual conversations going onThe thread title change caught me though and I do feel it's a tad belittling.
Graphics Horse
Member
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/04/us_patent_cites_wii_u_as_universal_remote_controller
Patent is by an existing universal remote company, so it's not clear if this is something on behalf of Nintendo or not. as it mentions a bunch of other devices too.
It's an idea I've brought up before so I wouldn't be surprised if they're going to let you use it as a smart remote.
This might sound a bit radical, but I wish Nintendo would provide a development expert to each third party studio so that they have someone who's always on duty, ready to share expertise on how to get the most out of the hardware, how to solve common (and uncommon) barriers, offer design suggestions, etc.
I think that this kind of gesture of support would go a long way towards getting better games for the system as a result, and the PR that would come as a result of such action could be a big step towards reversing this conception of Nintendo being cold toward third parties. That, and with better games would hopefully come better sales, which could thaw Nintendo fans' perceptions of many third-party products. It'd be a win-win-win move.
(and if they do it already, ignore my statement)
Can you prove that?
Hey! I posted that Universal Remote patent stuff in thread 3 and almost nobody paid attention >_< These threads do move a little to fast. New stuff gets covered up very quickly.
Anyway, I'm really excited for the smaller downloadable titles that Nintendo might create for the Wii U. They didn't do so well supporting Wiiware but they have been on a role with the 3DS (pushmo, freakyforms, dillions, and so on).
Anyway, I'm really excited for the smaller downloadable titles that Nintendo might create for the Wii U. They didn't do so well supporting Wiiware but they have been on a role with the 3DS (pushmo, freakyforms, dillions, and so on).
is OpenGL an API or a programming library as well?
That would be a very, very strange feature. I'm trying to think of scenarios where one would want to control their TV or DVD plaupyer with the uPad while the other remote(s) are most likely sitting just a few feet away on the coffee table.
Maybe while playing a uPad-only game, I'd be able to pause to a submenu and control the content that's playing on my TV? That'd be convenient.. and it would be a major clue, to me, that Nintendo is planning on putting a HUGE emphasis on the idea of playing uPad-only games while the TV is freed-up for other functions.
So maybe it isn't that strange a feature..
- Killer Freaks (Ubisoft)
- Lego City Stories (Travelers Tales)
- Dragon Quest X Online (Square-Enix)
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
That would be a great idea. Nintendo really does need to provide the right environment for nurturing third party devs to feel that they are included.
I know in the past, Nintendo have had a history of keeping the best techniques for themselves. And its been well documented by frustrated devs. This needs to change.
I also hope they encourage indie development by providing free tools, a community and a easy to use infrastructure and business model.
stupidvillager
Neo Member
Nintendos patents also mention this, and more.
Well as I said earlier that's already a feature the Wii had in Japan, so it's not unthinkable. Though if they had to pay something over it (and I have no clue how it actually worked in Japan) then Nintendo probably wouldn't do it.
I only know when you downloaded the channel it would ask where you live, and the channel page on nintendo.co.jp says you can switch tv channels and change the volume, so it seems to replicate a normal remote.
It looked like this, so imagine this on the DRC, you can rate shows and have recommendations, imagine setting an alarm for a show and having the DRC notify you when it starts and asking you if you want to switch immediately (while playing for example, suspending your game). Nothing big or complicated but the kind of neat Nintendo needs.
Hehe sure, I try to spread the K/J-Pop love, comes naturally when you come from teamliquid...
That's actually 4minute in the gif, though but nobody would notice shhh ♥
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Thinking about it. I'd love for Ninty to to provide a Net Yaroze type dev kit for WiiU.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Can we be best friends?
I had to reply to this, k-pop references everywhere x_x
SNSD gif, and 2NE1 song. Classy.
Alright, thanks for the recap, but that's not stopping me from leaving unless I see news (;
It is an API. Directed by an independent group and outsiders can propose and write optimization suggestions. It's also considered more extensible at the expense of finite simplifications of some tasks as seen in DirectX, as it is designed for "extensions" that can be as specific or broad as you need them to be.
Engines like UE3, being on more than MS platforms, are constantly altered and improved to suit the needs of OpenGL platforms all the time. That's part of the engine's appeal.
But yeah, that means you have to wait for Epic etc. to update them instead of relying on your own talents. And I think a lot of current talent is too lazy to get into the nitty-gritty. Which is really a pity, cuz it's things like getting into the nitty-gritty of an API that actually makes a good-looking game a GREAT-looking game.
Well, with Nintendo improving the console to meet 3rd-party needs/desires, I doubt they'd do it without, y'know, giving them the documentation to take advantage of those requested alterations.
Nintendo shares quite a bit with developers. I think the problem is that Nintendo programmers and developers still use heavy amounts of assembly code to squeeze power out of their consoles, and people in this industry with either the desire or even the KNOWLEDGE to use assembly code is dwindling by the year, so that knowledge isn't helpful for the vast majority.
DirectX and OpenGL don't share a monopoly on graphics APIs. All modern consoles have their own specific API tailored for the system which is often the preferred way to program the hardware.
The required knowledge is knowing how to make games, regardless of API. If people are clueless what to do without OpenGL (and with proper documentation) then they don't have much place in the industry.
Newer dev kits (post v4) were supposed to come to big western third-parties at the end of march. It's plausible that important japanese third-parties like capcom received it a bit earlier. There's also the possibility of a delay in their delivery.
Can you at least watch over us indifferently? Would help me sleep better.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Aren't they cutting it a bit fine in terms of development time for launch games?
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I'll...consider it, just for you <3
-Pyromaniac-
Member
ehh it's not getting their first dev kit, it's just getting the 4th revision. I can't imagine it takes a super long time to optimize it further to suit it.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Yeah. I suppose so.
My thing is, in order to improve relations, they need to take any knocks against them away - and go beyond. Providing that number of developers for support would cost them millions yearly, but it would be repaid in increased games and system sales.
If word gets around that Nintendo provides the best of support, then this could be a huge part what gets them more third-party efforts. And think of smaller development houses with a small number of people working on their game. The presence of another highly-skilled person on that team is going to be felt in a very big, positive way.
The more I think about this, the more I like it.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
it would be amazing if nintendo took the nurturing of small developers upon themselves, as well as offer marketing and all that, as well as the tools to make games that look good.
They spent years building up that bank, now it's time to put it to work.
There's a reason why launch games are almost always rushed in some way.
And it could be a generational thing, where if they plant the seeds of goodwill now, it would yield fruit for decades to come. Up-and-coming developers would be ever-thankful to Nintendo for the crucial support provided to them in their early, difficult days. Heck, this kind of support for some could be the difference between sink or swim.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
too bad nintendo has so much stuff they need to catch up on, I can see this being an afterthought for them at the moment. I hope I'm wrong though.
I've always said something similar, that making the hardware and the tools is just step 1, they have to work hard to create the partnerships/relationships, foster them, hold hands if they have to, make it work. Sometimes these companies won't do anything until you kick them in the ass and make them do it. That goes for big and small devs alike.
They've ramped-up hiring and construction of new buildings for development. My theory is that they're going to see if joining the "HD generation" is really going to increase costs (both human and financial) and development time as much as they thought. Once they get a grip on that aspect of development, though, they should do everything in their power to bring-up those whom they want support from.
A bit of info concerning the CPU
After discussing with a member here about the specificities of the Wii U CPU, and searching on it for a particularity that could constitute an hindrance for some of middleware companies if they don't optimize their product for, i was able to get some vague infos, i can't go too much into details, and it's from a totally different source that the ones i was referring to before. Nothing groundbreaking, but it's a confirmation at least.
- The instructions set of the CPU (their "routine") is definitively even more advanced and targeted for gaming that the VMX128 included in the Xbox360 Xenon.
- Expect a noticeable lowering of the caches latency (fewer cycles), i assume L1 & L2.
It clearly reinforce the fact that Wii U CPU is more modern, efficient, and more powerful overall than the Xbox360 one. You can even ditch the scenario where the Wii U could be a Xenon+10% + not so much powerful GPU, with 1GB of ram, the CPU really seems to constitute an advancement.
After discussing with a member here about the specificities of the Wii U CPU, and searching on it for a particularity that could constitute an hindrance for some of middleware companies if they don't optimize their product for, i was able to get some vague infos, i can't go too much into details, and it's from a totally different source that the ones i was referring to before. Nothing groundbreaking, but it's a confirmation at least.
- The instructions set of the CPU (their "routine") is definitively even more advanced and targeted for gaming that the VMX128 included in the Xbox360 Xenon.
- Expect a noticeable lowering of the caches latency (fewer cycles), i assume L1 & L2.
It clearly reinforce the fact that Wii U CPU is more modern, efficient, and more powerful overall than the Xbox360 one. You can even ditch the scenario where the Wii U could be a Xenon+10% + not so much powerful GPU, with 1GB of ram, the CPU really seems to constitute an advancement.
Dreamwriter
Member
What Nintendo has is a message board where developers can post questions/problems/tips for other developers, and Nintendo has support people who watch the board and respond to questions. I think it's a decent enough system, and it can do more than your idea of a Nintendo expert for each company, because this way all developers can see the responses, not just the one with the problem. Plus, sometimes Nintendo does *not* know the answer to something (such as a bug in the hardware or in the OS), and developers can work together to figure it out.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
nothing too new here but nice to hear again, thanks.
Always-honest
Banned
Yess. All will be fine
Cool! That's kinda why I wrote the spoiler'd comment below the post, as I'm not quite privy to all of the details of their degree of support. The message board sounds fantastic.. why did I not know about it before?
Well, considering some things aren't even available for developers in v4 dev kits (i'll elaborate on this later in april), i guess they are making their games how they can, while imagining implementation in their titles and making room for some expected features. Still, nearly all is available for them to exploit the hardware & the padlet, the core of the system in other terms. And from what i know, the V5 dev kits aren't a deal-breaker thing, they will see an increase of the performances of their engine on it, they won't have in their hands a completely new & exotic development environment through drastic changes of hardware and software tools that may push them to redo some parts of their games. They will be on time, at least for the projects of my sources.
It's the "5th" actually, one of my source called it the V5, lherre here told us it was a different codename, but it's a true next revision following the V4 dev kits that were in the possession of big third-parties until at least march included.
Interesting.
Yes they are doing it, i've talked about a "tutorship" in the thread 2 i guess. Well, at least they did it one year ago, for a certain studio
nordique
Member
I'm not sure how CPU routines works, but it could be possible that it's just the case in which both set of intructions (360/WiiU) works in different way, so it make appears Wii U's routines as more complex because they are new for devs?
What's cache latency, and what does it means for Wii U overall performance?IdeaMan said:
GameplayWhore
Member
Faster caches, hrm. Sometimes that means smaller caches (or, in the case of seven years of advances, caches that could have been larger with the same lateny).
Still, even if it has faster memory access and better extensions, the increase in instructions per clock is not going to be that much faster if it's the same number of cores and a similar clock frequency.
I like this info, though. It is definitely telling us that the system is striving for improvement over previous hardware.
nordique
Member
Faster caches, hrm. Sometimes that means smaller caches (or, in the case of seven years of advances, caches that could have been larger with the same lateny).
Still, even if it has faster memory access and better extensions, the increase in instructions per clock is not going to be that much faster if it's the same number of cores and a similar clock frequency.
I like this info, though. It is definitely telling us that the system is striving for improvement over previous hardware.
We do have an idea that the L2 cache size is 3x that of the 360's (3MB vs 1MB)
(at least in some version of some devkit that is so)
OoOE may be helping this too. And don't forget the role the seperate I/O and DSP processors have and how they may impact CPU performance
I wonder how much of that is related to what IdeaMan posted
GameplayWhore
Member
Cache latency is the number of cpu clock ticks it takes between asking for a piece of data and getting it. Caches have copies of some of the system's memory (ideally the most frequently accessed stuff) so that when the system asks for the data, instead of taking much longer to retrieve from memory, it can be obtained from the caches much more quickly.
The lower the cache latency, the faster the data can be accessed. If your next questions is "Well, why don't they just use the cache for the whole memory?", then the answer is (A) cache memory is more expensive on account of being much faster, and (B) if you increase the size of the cache, it can increase the latency of the cache (eg, it'll take longer to search through a bigger cache!).
GameplayWhore
Member
Oh, wack, the L2 is substantially larger and faster? I believe the applicable term here is "Yessssssss!".
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