The only evidence we have seen of this is from the Nintendo Direct video in June. The guy playing ZombiU is shown accessing voice chat while he was in the middle of playing the game (unfortunately, we couldn't see it being done from his perspective). By the time he walked up to the tv to place the GamePad in front of it on the stand, the GamePad was already displaying the camera showing his face. Once he talked to the creepy old guy (whose face was being displayed on the tv as well as the GamePad), he took the GamePad and sat back down on the couch and was able to quickly get back to playing the game.
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Wii U Thread - Now in HD!
- Thread starter lordfroakie
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The only evidence we have seen of this is from the Nintendo Direct video in June. The guy playing ZombiU is shown accessing voice chat while he was in the middle of playing the game (unfortunately, we couldn't see it being done from his perspective). By the time he walked up to the tv to place the GamePad in front of it on the stand, the GamePad was already displaying the camera showing his face. Once he talked to the creepy old guy (whose face was being displayed on the tv as well as the GamePad), he took the GamePad and sat back down on the couch and was able to quickly get back to playing the game.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I wonder how bloated MiiVerse will be on its own forget whatever else the OS has as a feature
this is by far the most interesting aspect of what the WiiU will offer. I want to see what MiiVerse on iPhone does for the platform
so hopefully they have all the RAM issues future proofed
If Nintendo were ambitious I would see them add an extra 1GB not for games but to extend the life of the social network aspect of this OS can't always count on shrinking a footprint when you add new features
If they do this not straight out of the box, at best it will do a Kinect, at worst a Move. Nintendo would still have a price/broader support advantage.
If I were Sony I would copy the GamePad for PS4's launch. Not later because it'd be too late.
Unless you plan letting third parties install huge apps that run in the background, you don't need anywhere near that amount. And surely the more ram you reserve, the more likely you'll be having things running in the background, which also means reserving CPU time too. Do we have any news/rumours on whether wiiU developers get access to all three cores, or is one reserved for the OS?
Smiles and Cries
Member
those guys have a year to shove it right in... MS already tried announcing what was it called Smart Glass?
Sony is playing Vita +
but they could copy this controller in a year's time if they wanted to have it at launch depends if Nintendo can have an Apple like patent suit lined up
Well portables are bigger in Japan and home consoles in the US...so both?
That'd probably benefit Nintendo more than anyone if their head start works out well.
The rumor is 1GB for games, the OS number just depends on the total RAM assumption is, and bg is still assuming 2GB.
(and for more comparison craziness, the original iPad had 256MB total)
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I don't think Nintendo can, or wants to, compete in the battle for high end hardware. I'm just not completely optimistic that, by design, their hardware will be adequate for the demands of the industry around them, or a market that might support that industry. The Wii is the obvious poster child how seemingly small mistakes can cost third party support and market adaptability even while still managing great success. I personally feel the 3DS is another example, as fact of the matter is for all good the hardware is it isn't able to saddle up to smartphone gaming, which I feel was a poor decision in the realm of portable devices.
It's impossible to predict how the market will change and evolve over the next few years, same goes for the industry, and I certainly won't try to predict what the Wii U's future will be. But I do has reservations about Nintendo's philosophy when it comes to producing hardware they think will be okay in the long run. Nintendo strikes me as a company that, to summarise, goes in with good intentions but cheapens out in an area they deem unimportant and irrelevant, and it's exactly that area that ends up costing them. It's not even limited to hardware, but their business philosophy as a whole (see: attitudes towards online).
And the thing is, even with mistakes they can still find tremendous success. I do however believe that success always comes with a "but...".
It's impossible to predict how the market will change and evolve over the next few years, same goes for the industry, and I certainly won't try to predict what the Wii U's future will be. But I do has reservations about Nintendo's philosophy when it comes to producing hardware they think will be okay in the long run. Nintendo strikes me as a company that, to summarise, goes in with good intentions but cheapens out in an area they deem unimportant and irrelevant, and it's exactly that area that ends up costing them. It's not even limited to hardware, but their business philosophy as a whole (see: attitudes towards online).
And the thing is, even with mistakes they can still find tremendous success. I do however believe that success always comes with a "but...".
shinra-bansho
Member
In a way. But Kinect essentially provided a viable HD alternative for the "casual" or "expanded audience" consumer.
Also, as fickle as the expanded audience may be, I don't think the "traditional" audience is particularly fickle about wanting technology advances.
It has always been a staple.
Despite often being used, neither the PS1 nor PS2 are examples of traditional gamers not caring about hardware power at all when it comes to generational transitions, even if they were ultimately outpowered by later consoles.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I could see Steam, EA/Ubisoft's steam clones needing a slice we do not know how extensive things may have changed
I remember RAM expansion being something Nintendo considered in the past. I hope they are planning well for this. WiiU homebrew will be scary though :3
Could they propose it at an affordable price though? Sony could certainly not launch a high-end PC + a costly controller, at a mass market price, unless they give up any profit objective next gen.
MS could pull it, they have the cash, but I think they still care about making money. And they already have to figure out how to include Kinect in their equation.
Every company has a "but" EatChidren. Nintendo won't make theirs on price.
There are now two better armed competitors in the high-end box field, so Nintendo changed its car from a F1 to a Buggie and chased another road. I don't see it as cheapening out, it allows them to go to places others can't follow.
bgassassin
Member
Actually that came originated from an old discussion from ozfunghi and Ideaman when IM indicated that a large amount of memory (learned later to be 1GB) was blocked off in the dev kit for certain things and oz (summarizing) asked if that blocked off amount was ≥512MB, to which IM only said yes. Once we did learn the actual amount, denial set in that it would remain that large and 512MB some how became the default number. I've skipped a couple of stages, but I'm beginning to enter into acceptance. 512MB was never really a rumor.
But even when they add things that shouldn't negate prior optimizations.
Right. I think this post explains it best.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41622413&postcount=2638
JordanN
Banned
Well they obviously can compete in hardware, as demonstrated in the past (or the fact they have the money to do so). It's only been under Iwata's management they truly stopped caring about it.
The 3DS example isn't exactly good since equating smartphones as competition is like comparing PC to console. They're always going to be evolving.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I agree with you. Nintendo lives in it's own sea alone and away from bothering to understand the flow underneath almost arrogantly
3DS showed some kinks in the armor if not for the Vita being a shocking strange mess that it is the story would be very different right now. I am still puzzled by the Vita question.
This only proves Nintendo will not bend, they will take their lumps as they come. Iwata will say, "I am sorry I failed I will take another pay cut" and carry on.
Precisely. Would be hilarious. I'd laugh.
My thoughts on RAM: If the only confirmed Dev kit amount we have (from the leaked sheet) is 3GB, and that same sheet said retail units will have half that; Then why are we entertaining the thought that it has 2GB total? Surely (unless that leak was bogus, but people seem to believe it's legit) it obviously has 1.5GB total?
We've had sort of confirmation now that 1GB is available for games, which leaves .5GB for non gaming functions?! Correct me if I missed summat.
Edit: *Reads all bg's posts* Ok I believe. But still not sure how we arrived there
web_slinger_62
Member
Ok so any other rumoured games coming out at launch that have yet to be confirmed other than Black Ops II, NFS Most Wanted, and Resident Evil 6 (I remain optimistic about Blacknmild21's statement)?
Smiles and Cries
Member
RE6? when did this become a thing?
ZombiU 4 LIFE!
there were a few eShop games linked a few pages back
Re: the last few hardware posts, I think they're handling it better than the Wii, if only cause it sounded like they actually got input from some third parties vs just assuming what would work fine, which seemed to be their usual methodology in the past. Of course the strategy only works if they get the lead, and users buy third party games ...when they're there.
There was something about an ARM core for social functions or something, I think Lu Mu Bai brought that up a while back.
MadeInBeats
Banned
*yawnnnn*
*stretchhhh*
*smacks chops*
.. .. who's Pam?
*stretchhhh*
*smacks chops*
.. .. who's Pam?
Mr. MondayNight
Member
See what you did this is gonna haunt me for the rest of my NeoGaf days......
RE6 was never rumored. It's just expected as a surprise simply because of RE4.
Capcom only semi-denied it with a "nothing to say at this time" during Captivate earlier this year which is why it's neither confirmed nor fully denied. Doesn't mean it's rumored to come.
Precisely. Would be hilarious. I'd laugh.
My thoughts on RAM: If the only confirmed Dev kit amount we have (from the leaked sheet) is 3GB, and that same sheet said retail units will have half that; Then why are we entertaining the thought that it has 2GB total? Surely (unless that leak was bogus, but people seem to believe it's legit) it obviously has 1.5GB total?
We've had sort of confirmation now that 1GB is available for games, which leaves .5GB for non gaming functions?! Correct me if I missed summat.
Edit: *Reads all bg's posts* Ok I believe. But still not sure how we arrived there
In the past, devkits had double the RAM (or PAM) of the retail box. Also the OS was never that big. Usually it was split down the middle (because OS was relatively small anyway) and devs needed the other half for development purposes. In case of WiiU, the OS is so large, Nintendo dedicated an entire gig to it, which basically is sealed off for developers. That means developers still have 2 gigs to work with, which again split down the middle, is 1 gig for a retail WiiU. 1 + 1 = 2.
Or at least, that's the underlying train of thought... but only just having read your edit, i guess this post is basically wasted, lol.
I guess the part I'm confused about is: if they kept 1GB of RAM (PAM) for o/s in dev kits, then to me that implies .5GB for retail (cos there's usually double the retail amount in a devkit).
Still comes to 1.5GB total retail in my book.....
But as I say, having followed gaf for a long time before I joined - if bg gives some info, it's usually correct. So I'll ignore my maths.
MadeInBeats
Banned
LOL I was expecting something totally nuts
That's just an online editor from the German magazine Focus (they cover everything from politics to culture to real estate and health). Maybe comparable to USA Today or something like that. Not sure how respectable both are really.
The guy is basically explaining what the Wii U does to the older non-tech crowd. Nothing new or interesting. He uses the Panorama View to explain that you can move the pad around and have a 360° view of the game world basically. Quote "it might be useful in a game to let you check if there's an enemy sneaking up on you from behind." Then a dual-screen gameplay example with the Wii Fit U trampoline game and then finally the NintendoLand Animal Crossing game and NSMBU to show the different kinds of asymmetric gameplay. It's all very basic and known information.
But, at least it's free of any judgment or wrong facts. So thumbs up, I guess
Umm, ok then. I still think he's cool! Gets my vote for NOE president.
*rubs eyes*
*confusion sets in*
*retreats back under duvet until football comes on*
Smiles and Cries
Member
If you think that is scary
one of the weapons in this game better be a can of PAM
one of the weapons in this game better be a can of PAM
Right, but in that way this is also unprecedented, because the OS has never been that large and got its own gig of RAM. And in the past, it was doubled in devkits with the purpose of devs being able to debug etc, not so much for the OS. So with WiiU the memory for devs has also been cut in two... but nobody really knows if they'll keep the amount of memory for the OS or also cut it in half. Even BG can't really state this as fact.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Wii Fit U?
Sold.
(Not really but still)
Sold.
(Not really but still)
If coded properly, any increase will result in improvements, but to see a big jump, a 4X increase is needed minimum.
Will be more than enough for Nintendo games
There... better?
Well, the Wii U is more than a 10 X increase in RAM from its predecessor, so the difference in graphics is massive.
All depends on the other two nextgen consoles. If those are both packing 4GB just for games for example, I think the difference could potentially be pretty huge.
Then again, I don't think RAM size is the main differentiator for actual substantial improvements in gameplay and/or graphics, but i'm no developer.
I know that
He was talking about third party games
To be honest, I have yet to see a first party game that truly takes advantage of Wii U's power. Pikmin and NSMBU look great but they are not what I would call graphical showcases
I know, joke post bwahahaha.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Limited RAM can be an annoying bottleneck for texture quality, scale, density and complexity of a single scene, and information to 'remember'. More is almost always better. Limitations are relative to what a game is doing, obvious. Whether or not ~1GB will cause issues depends on what next generation games aim for.
Well, this is wha I mean. Its RAM essential for call a game "next-gen" right now? I think there is a few other things that are more important than RAM, isnt there?
MadeInBeats
Banned
I don't understand though, can you actually explain this in technical terms what difference it would make to games; where this extra RAM/PAM/SPAM will be used? I just think most people are getting caught up in RAM amounts in context to PC rigs. If a developer claimed that they loaded their whole game to the RAM and didn't have to touch the disc drive again, then that's nuff RAM!
Exactly. Not only that, but what sort of resolutions the WiiU it's self will be aiming for.
So the more RAM will improve the textures loading time and the framerate? If so, I think I will be happy with 1,5Gb. Yes, I know there are games with textures problems and horrible framerates, but the world scale (I mean in game worlds size) is just right for me, so: games with the same world size like, for example Skyrim or mass effect on current generation consoles bu with better framerate and textures loading time and better graphics (not much better, maybe like star wars 1313) its more than enough for me. And I think Wii U will get all these things.
Don't forget the relation between RAM and mass storage and IO, though. It's all about balance. You'll rarely use more than 1GB at any given time, a ton of RAM is just used for caching. The faster the IO and mass storage subsystem, the less cache you need.
shinra-bansho
Member
Would limited RAM bottleneck on the Wii U relative to the PS4 or 720 in the same way as it did on the PS3 vs 360 vs PC with regard to Skyrim? Was that an exemplar that could happen in future games or was it more of an exception?
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Following that path guaranteed that they weren't tied to one console manufacturer indefinitely.
The hardware upgrade system may be on its last legs, but it's the path third parties know and invested heavily in before the gen started. Nintendo, for better or for worse, wanted to change the rules of the game at the drop of a dime. There was bound to be resistance.
Also, the fact that Nintendo's image in the marketplace at the time as a marginal player cannot be ignored. Why would third parties all of a sudden hitch their wagon to Nintendo's horse? They have been a dwindling market presence ever since the N64. Surely the Wii's success, while phenomenal, will only be temporary. It's a fad.
Skyrim was limited to 2GB on PC, a lot of games go this route... that is even pushing the 1080p and even 1600p resolutions that some people play at, a lower resolution does require less ram, so as long as "next gen" doesn't exceed 720p for the majority of games, 2GB should be more than enough.
Think of it this way, currently PS3 uses 256MB ram and a separate pool of faster 256MB ram, it's very limited ram wise, using 1024MB ram is a very noticeable increase, especially considering that the bandwidth should also increase, allowing less need for a buffer (larger ram) and Wii U likely is using at least this for games, in fact it could be using over 1536MB of ram while holding to 720p or 1080p resolutions, just as the PS3/360 have been doing for the last 7 years.
PCs however mostly limit their system memory usage to 2GBs (likely in order to not bog down the system) even so, AAA budget games made the port easy between PCs and 360, even though the 360 has 1/4th that amount of ram (without even touching the PC's GPU video memory that has in large part been at least 1GB ram for the last 5 years) So where exactly is the worry with Wii U? anyone who truly understands these numbers can see that at 720p, even 1GB shouldn't hinder a game unless it's poorly coded.
Is this true? How much are we talking about?
I think you guys should be focusing on the Suspend Mode rather than OS RAM footprint.
The OS RAM footprint will be small, like 50 MB, but the reserve it would need for Suspend Mode quite something to be able to play when games are being paused in memory.
I do not need this feature, i rather want developers to have more RAM.
It would be very very bad that the 512 MB would be cut off from games all the time just because 50% of the people will use Suspend twice or once per game session, this is such a sacrifice, huge actually, for some user comfort.
Focusing on this will let more people know which will produce talk about it that will be noticed by nintendo hopefully persuading them to let developers turn off this feature if they really need it case by case basis. Unless another solution is developed before they start to get grumpy, because belive me, the guys who need RAM will be pointint this out if it does happen.
A technical solution is to reserve some of the Flash storage for temporary suspend file specifically for this, similar to how hiberfil.sys works on windows. When the Suspend Mode is activated the system would take some time to write most of the game's asset (games would need to support this so software knows what's what) from RAM to the temp file on flash Storage, then you'd have the freed up RAM to use for whatever multimedia stuff, after you want to resume game there will be a process of cleaning out the RAM residue and reloading the suspended game into the RAM.
Storage flash is not that slow as HDDs so it won't be that much of a inconvinience. No other avrage kid gamer gadget-freaks whiners should be negatively impacted by a little delay which is such of small tiny thing that should not be a valid criticism, so all such complaints should be disvalidated immediately, the immense benefit this solution provides is unbeatable, I think this is the perfect solution and I want nintendo to notice this.
The best news is, this can all be done via firmware updates, doesn't matter if the console is finished or not or has gone into production.
Flash storage should be "OS Reserved" not RAM. So if the total amount is 8 GB, well you got 7 GB from this solution, 512 MB of OS is on a separate unaccessible flash as we know.
We have SDs and external HDDs , this is another none issue at all.
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There are also other possibilites, maybe they already have a system that suspend won't have to use RAM that we don't know of yet.
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I really can't go make chinese walls every week so i'll just reply to some:
There was some posts when people said ridicolous things like "1 GB big OS, that's gotta be a really good OS"
The OS it self how large it is doesn't matter at all, it's saved in a separate 512 special flash space (out of user control ofcourse)
The OS RAM Footprint is a very small amount if optimized and programmed with top quality, be sure nintendo will do just fine in software. Console OS is designed to take less RAM footprint ofcourse to leave games the rest, it must be very optimized.
Windows 7 is about 15 GB in size yet it takes ~700MB (1.1 GB default) of RAM (disabled useless services, and a ton of other custom settings, reg tweaks ..etc)
The OS RAM footprint will be small, like 50 MB, but the reserve it would need for Suspend Mode quite something to be able to play when games are being paused in memory.
I do not need this feature, i rather want developers to have more RAM.
It would be very very bad that the 512 MB would be cut off from games all the time just because 50% of the people will use Suspend twice or once per game session, this is such a sacrifice, huge actually, for some user comfort.
Focusing on this will let more people know which will produce talk about it that will be noticed by nintendo hopefully persuading them to let developers turn off this feature if they really need it case by case basis. Unless another solution is developed before they start to get grumpy, because belive me, the guys who need RAM will be pointint this out if it does happen.
A technical solution is to reserve some of the Flash storage for temporary suspend file specifically for this, similar to how hiberfil.sys works on windows. When the Suspend Mode is activated the system would take some time to write most of the game's asset (games would need to support this so software knows what's what) from RAM to the temp file on flash Storage, then you'd have the freed up RAM to use for whatever multimedia stuff, after you want to resume game there will be a process of cleaning out the RAM residue and reloading the suspended game into the RAM.
Storage flash is not that slow as HDDs so it won't be that much of a inconvinience. No other avrage kid gamer gadget-freaks whiners should be negatively impacted by a little delay which is such of small tiny thing that should not be a valid criticism, so all such complaints should be disvalidated immediately, the immense benefit this solution provides is unbeatable, I think this is the perfect solution and I want nintendo to notice this.
The best news is, this can all be done via firmware updates, doesn't matter if the console is finished or not or has gone into production.
Flash storage should be "OS Reserved" not RAM. So if the total amount is 8 GB, well you got 7 GB from this solution, 512 MB of OS is on a separate unaccessible flash as we know.
We have SDs and external HDDs , this is another none issue at all.
------------
There are also other possibilites, maybe they already have a system that suspend won't have to use RAM that we don't know of yet.
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I really can't go make chinese walls every week so i'll just reply to some:
There was some posts when people said ridicolous things like "1 GB big OS, that's gotta be a really good OS"
The OS it self how large it is doesn't matter at all, it's saved in a separate 512 special flash space (out of user control ofcourse)
The OS RAM Footprint is a very small amount if optimized and programmed with top quality, be sure nintendo will do just fine in software. Console OS is designed to take less RAM footprint ofcourse to leave games the rest, it must be very optimized.
Windows 7 is about 15 GB in size yet it takes ~700MB (1.1 GB default) of RAM (disabled useless services, and a ton of other custom settings, reg tweaks ..etc)
JordanN
Banned
The EDRAM is real and was officially described as being "a lot".
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/07/ibm-puts-watsons-brains-in-nintendo-wii-u/
As for actual amount, we had one developer confirm a [old] document that listed it as 32mb. However, it's not confirmed by either Nintendo or IBM so you choose to believe it or not.
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-premiere-wii-u-specs/
MadeInBeats
Banned
Yeah, I was just going to say this myself ! >_>
So the use of EDRAM means faster texture loading time and all around improvements in the information processes of the Wii U. Interesting. This with the (i hope) more than 1GB RAM will be enough to get next gen ports, maybe not as good as the other consoles, but perfect for 90% of the consumers, me include.
Bu Im a little worried about these possible next gen ports. Personally I think its possible without much worry, but Im not sure if the Wii story will repeat itself again.
Bu Im a little worried about these possible next gen ports. Personally I think its possible without much worry, but Im not sure if the Wii story will repeat itself again.
lightchris
Member
Not really, no. It can improve texture resolution, overall scene complexity or reduce performance hiccups, but not the general framerate or the time that a texture needs to load in a LOD system.
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